EK Waterblocks: Liquidity shortage and mismanagement

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, Motifator said:

The best in the business? This brand has been garbage for a complete two decades. The oxidating GPU blocks, the CSQ fiasco, nickel plating tearing out... remember older days? And they don't do their own stuff usually it's just stuff they take from Asetek in AIOs, and pumps from some company down Slovakia.

The country they're from aren't even great for producing high tech stuff. If you look at who makes these things, you'll see a lot of hippies that worked for this company. Not people like uh... name me a tech giant? Igor Rosanov, who built Dr. Web anti-virus in 1992... after working on MIG planes. Nobody out of EK, as a person, holds any redeeming value to watercooling. Their stuff is overpriced and garbage. They're the Fiat of watercooling, everybody knows Fiat, entry-level.

People who are better at watercooling would buy Aquacomputer, Heatkiller and similar brands... actual gear is out there, let EK rebadge unreliable, cheap DDC's.

Why do you think EK's DDCs pass out in couple years while the old school Swiftech ones have been going for so long?

Yeah, EK sucks, just like EVGA. They deserved this themselves long ago. I will not miss them.

pretty much,  im surprised how long these extreme low tier garbage companies last, i guess if all your money goes into advertising it actually pays of - for a while.

 

 

its not like these guys care, they already rich and will do the same thing in another market  - or just endless vacation on hawaii... ~

[Spotty]

Der8auer has also posted a video weighing in on the EK stuff.

 

 

@FlyingPotato_is_taken Please update your post to comply with the Tech News Posting Guidelines. Posting a link to the source is not a quote. You need to include actual quotes from the source.

• Your thread should also include quotes from the cited source(s). While you shouldn't just copy the entire article, your quote should give the reader a summary of the article in a way that gives the key details, but also leaves room for them to read the full article on the linked website. Please use quote tags to show that you have copied this content from another site.

[leadeater]

9 hours ago, Motifator said:

The best in the business? This brand has been garbage for a complete two decades. The oxidating GPU blocks, the CSQ fiasco, nickel plating tearing out... remember older days? And they don't do their own stuff usually it's just stuff they take from Asetek in AIOs, and pumps from some company down Slovakia.

The country they're from aren't even great for producing high tech stuff. If you look at who makes these things, you'll see a lot of hippies that worked for this company. Not people like uh... name me a tech giant? Igor Rosanov, who built Dr. Web anti-virus in 1992... after working on MIG planes. Nobody out of EK, as a person, holds any redeeming value to watercooling. Their stuff is overpriced and garbage. They're the Fiat of watercooling, everybody knows Fiat, entry-level.

People who are better at watercooling would buy Aquacomputer, Heatkiller and similar brands... actual gear is out there, let EK rebadge unreliable, cheap DDC's.

Why do you think EK's DDCs pass out in couple years while the old school Swiftech ones have been going for so long?

Yeah, EK sucks, just like EVGA. They deserved this themselves long ago. I will not miss them.

I have a lot, a lot of EK stuff and have never had any problems ever. It depends on what you buy, I have no AIO's of theirs and don't intend to buy them. What I do have is a huge supply of fittings and blocks from many different build and not ever had Nickel plating issues. And by a lot I mean more than 40 STC compression fittings and another 40 HDC compression fittings, many angle adapters and rotary angle adapters. Had multiple 6970 full cover block, multiple 290X full cover blocks, 6800 XT, Rampage 3&4 BE full cover, Supremacy CPU block plus more I'm likely forgetting or not worth mentioning and all without any issues and all perfectly good quality.

 

This is not to say EK hasn't or doesn't sell products with problems, like any brand could or has. But I wouldn't go around calling literally everything a company makes garbage based off a tiny fraction of what they have ever made.

 

It's also not like you can't find Nickel plating issues with both brands you mentioned in less than a minute, more recent EK plating being sub standard or not it's almost always user error that is the root cause and the quality merely saves your ass or not, or saves it for X amount of time.

 

On the other hand I've had 3 Corsair AIO fail, 2 same reason and the other different but I wouldn't say all Corsair AIOs are trash and I'd still buy them and recommend them.

 

TL;DR Crappily run companies can still sell good products.

 

9 hours ago, Motifator said:

and pumps from some company down Slovakia

You mean the same D5 pumps everyone else sources from the same place and slaps their sticker on or the other same place everyone gets their DDC pumps from and slaps their sticker on? Laing/Xylem.

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

4 hours ago, Spotty said:

• Your thread should also include quotes from the cited source(s). While you shouldn't just copy the entire article, your quote should give the reader a summary of the article in a way that gives the key details, but also leaves room for them to read the full article on the linked website. Please use quote tags to show that you have copied this content from another site.

Do you want the youtube transcript be posted? At the time there wasn't a written article.

[starsmine]

6 hours ago, Motifator said:

The best in the business? This brand has been garbage for a complete two decades. The oxidating GPU blocks, the CSQ fiasco, nickel plating tearing out... remember older days? And they don't do their own stuff usually it's just stuff they take from Asetek in AIOs, and pumps from some company down Slovakia.

The country they're from aren't even great for producing high tech stuff. If you look at who makes these things, you'll see a lot of hippies that worked for this company. Not people like uh... name me a tech giant? Igor Rosanov, who built Dr. Web anti-virus in 1992... after working on MIG planes. Nobody out of EK, as a person, holds any redeeming value to watercooling. Their stuff is overpriced and garbage. They're the Fiat of watercooling, everybody knows Fiat, entry-level.

People who are better at watercooling would buy Aquacomputer, Heatkiller and similar brands... actual gear is out there, let EK rebadge unreliable, cheap DDC's.

Why do you think EK's DDCs pass out in couple years while the old school Swiftech ones have been going for so long?

Yeah, EK sucks, just like EVGA. They deserved this themselves long ago. I will not miss them.

How is every take in this wrong? that's almost impressive. 

[Dellenn]

EK CEO issued a statement:
 

Let's hope that with EK himself back at the helm that the ship gets righted and those who are due payment are taken care of in a timely manner.

[AnonymousGuy]

15 hours ago, leadeater said:

I have a lot, a lot of EK stuff and have never had any problems ever. It depends on what you buy, I have no AIO's of theirs and don't intend to buy them. What I do have is a huge supply of fittings and blocks from many different build and not ever had Nickel plating issues. And by a lot I mean more than 40 STC compression fittings and another 40 HDC compression fittings, many angle adapters and rotary angle adapters. Had multiple 6970 full cover block, multiple 290X full cover blocks, 6800 XT, Rampage 3&4 BE full cover, Supremacy CPU block plus more I'm likely forgetting or not worth mentioning and all without any issues and all perfectly good quality.

As recent as last year their coolants were on "do not buy" lists because of clogging blocks. Few years ago they were talking shit about Mayhem coolant being to blame for their plating failures (again) and then they got dunked on when Mick @ Mayhem was like "oh yeah BTW you guys were rebranding our coolant anyways sooooooo yeah".  Years before that their "warranty void if sticker removed" bullshit.

 

And overall their stuff is pretty much always the most expensive option and when you put it up against Alphacool or Watercool it isn't even close in terms of hydraulic design quality or finishing.  Their business for the last 10+ years has been "max $, minimum quality, and accept no responsibility for any failures in field".  So my recommendation to everyone whose like "oh should I buy EK?" nope, go on aliexpress and buy Bykski and it's the same thing at 1/5th the cost.  Or pay slightly less and buy Watercool or Alphacool stuff that is bomb proof.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

As recent as last year their coolants were on "do not buy" lists because of clogging blocks.

The only coolant I use from anyone ever is clear, which has never been a problem from EK or anyone 

 

4 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

hydraulic design quality or finishing

I can look at all my stuff and see zero finish issue on them. Design well maybe, maybe not but that last time that ever made a real difference was basically never anyway.

 

The two biggest factors when it comes to water cooling is price and aesthetics, anyone saying otherwise is being dishonest to themselves and whoever they are saying it to (exceptions always exist but this is the majority).

 

And one of the biggest reasons to buy from EK is they have options nobody else have, which is all obviously subjective choice on what you actually want because you don't actually have to get that thing anyway. But if I'm going to buy one thing from X company then I'm going to buy everything else from them because I'd rather only deal with one and then also ensure everything used is the same metals, coatings and finishes.

 

P.S. Yes I have opened by blocks to check and clean more than once so I know they have no issues.

[Motifator]

You know what is good about EK? I mean sorry I take that back, the only good thing out of the tens if not hundreds of watercooling stuff they created?

The Cryofuel you mix with distilled water...

it's the only EK you should have in your loop you spent your hard earned hundreds, work and time on... yeah, I can't think much else...

[-rascal-]

25 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The only coolant I use from anyone ever is clear, which has never been a problem from EK or anyone 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Motifator said:

You know what is good about EK? I mean sorry I take that back, the only good thing out of the tens if not hundreds of watercooling stuff they created?

The Cryofuel you mix with distilled water...

it's the only EK you should have in your loop you spent your hard earned hundreds, work and time on... yeah, I can't think much else...

 

4 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

As recent as last year their coolants were on "do not buy" lists because of clogging blocks. Few years ago they were talking shit about Mayhem coolant being to blame for their plating failures (again) and then they got dunked on when Mick @ Mayhem was like "oh yeah BTW you guys were rebranding our coolant anyways sooooooo yeah".  Years before that their "warranty void if sticker removed" bullshit.

 

And overall their stuff is pretty much always the most expensive option and when you put it up against Alphacool or Watercool it isn't even close in terms of hydraulic design quality or finishing.  Their business for the last 10+ years has been "max $, minimum quality, and accept no responsibility for any failures in field".  So my recommendation to everyone whose like "oh should I buy EK?" nope, go on aliexpress and buy Bykski and it's the same thing at 1/5th the cost.  Or pay slightly less and buy Watercool or Alphacool stuff that is bomb proof.

 

I've tried EK's opaque / "Sold White" coolant in the past -- once.

It didn't clog the CPU block, etc, but the pigments did fall out of suspension.

It looks like they eventually got it sorted out, according to people online.

 

Used their Cryofuel Clear concentrate (with the occasional use of their dyes) and so far, no issues since I started water-cooling in ~2016(?).

 

Absolutely agree though, their pricing has shot up over the years.

I'm running a full EK loop right now, but may really look into Alphacool (or other alternatives) products now.

Getting things shipped to Canada isn't cheap - even through the resellers / retailers in Canada, rather than direct.

[leadeater]

17 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

Absolutely agree though, their pricing has shot up over the years.

Yea they used to only be a little more but now a basic CPU block is about 3x more. At least they often have things on clearance for 50%-60% off, because they don't sell at the full price heh.

 

19 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

Getting things shipped to Canada isn't cheap - even through the resellers / retailers in Canada, rather than direct.

NZ is even worse but the only stuff that is stocked locally is EK which actually makes them cheaper than anything else due to shipping most of the time. Not if you buy a full loop worth of parts and spread that shipping cost across everything. Way back, I think 2012, I brought as much as I could from EK directly and had to get GST/Import registered but that did actually save me in the long run, I've never had to buy anything else other than specific blocks for GPUs and motherboards. All my EK stuff is essentially from 2012 other than those.

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

18 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I can look at all my stuff and see zero finish issue on them. Design well maybe, maybe not but that last time that ever made a real difference was basically never anyway.

All the outside/visible surfaces are perfect and beautiful.

The side facing the PCB have noticeable toolpath marks.

[vetali]

Sooo uhh, does Bitspower make good blocks? Lol... EK and Bitspower the only name brands that make waterblocks for my GPU. Hear nothing about EK horror stories since this news has surfaced, and I can't really support them if they aren't paying employees + media outlets while they are spending tons of money on a computex booth this year.

[leadeater]

13 minutes ago, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

The side facing the PCB have noticeable toolpath marks.

Since when is that a "finish" issue? Btw I don't even dislike that look heh. I think it's pretty bold to proclaim the entire range of products is garbage and bad because they don't polish finish areas you don't see and are not part of the cold plate either when everything else is good and additionally some people actually like those tool mark finish (so long as it's patterned nice, eh you get the gist).

 

Not saying it's unfair to expect higher grade finish on those areas for the price though.

[Gooberinchief]

On 4/22/2024 at 9:24 PM, Motifator said:

Yeah, EK sucks, just like EVGA. They deserved this themselves long ago. I will not miss them.

So glad I’m not the only one with this sentiment. EK stuff costs a premium but they weren’t even sleeping the cables on their D5 pumps for the longest time. How on earth is a hunk of POM with a tiny bit of copper $300 now? Their blocks are out of control expensive. 
 

And EVGA… don’t even get me started on their trash video cards. You know why their warranty was so good? Because you’re pretty much guaranteed to use it. 5/7 video cards I’ve owned were EVGA and of those 5, 4 of them had problems that I haven’t experienced on my Zotac or Asus cards. 

[starsmine]

33 minutes ago, Gooberinchief said:

And EVGA… don’t even get me started on their trash video cards. You know why their warranty was so good? Because you’re pretty much guaranteed to use it. 5/7 video cards I’ve owned were EVGA and of those 5, 4 of them had problems that I haven’t experienced on my Zotac or Asus cards. 

Thats not how warranties work. thats not how a company survives for two decades.

[Godlygamer23]

On 4/24/2024 at 4:21 PM, Gooberinchief said:

And EVGA… don’t even get me started on their trash video cards. You know why their warranty was so good? Because you’re pretty much guaranteed to use it. 5/7 video cards I’ve owned were EVGA and of those 5, 4 of them had problems that I haven’t experienced on my Zotac or Asus cards.

So you highlight the good experience you had with Zotac and ASUS, and ignore all the complaints that people file. 

 

Every company has RMAs, and some individuals might experience a spike in RMAs compared to others. 

 

I've had one Zotac card failure(1/2 so 50% failure rate), and one ASUS card fail(1/2 again, so 50%). Based on those numbers, they must be unreliable! Except I don't think that's true. Sample size is too small, and I would argue that so is yours. 

[RejZoR]

9 hours ago, Gooberinchief said:

So glad I’m not the only one with this sentiment. EK stuff costs a premium but they weren’t even sleeping the cables on their D5 pumps for the longest time. How on earth is a hunk of POM with a tiny bit of copper $300 now? Their blocks are out of control expensive. 
 

And EVGA… don’t even get me started on their trash video cards. You know why their warranty was so good? Because you’re pretty much guaranteed to use it. 5/7 video cards I’ve owned were EVGA and of those 5, 4 of them had problems that I haven’t experienced on my Zotac or Asus cards. 

Your claim makes no sense. No one just charges premium and everyone's like "yup, all fine". You earn the right to charge premium and EK has always been the premium brand. Guess what, premium brands charge premium prices. People also forgot how copper prices increased through years and how machining specific blocks simply costs more.

 

As for EVGA, do you realize EVGA was actually making the "NVIDIA" branded graphic cards for NVIDIA back in the day and that it was known as brand with toughest PCB's and power delivery circuits? In similar way how Sapphire has been making "Built by ATi" back then. Also your warranty claim makes no sense. Last thing any company wants is for most of their products to be processed through warranty. It's just absolutely worst for business. Either you lower the warranty period and risk people avoiding your products or you raise the warranty to attract customers with longer warranty and ensure most of your sold products survive warranty period without any need for service. This is the best outcome. But if something goes wrong, users have the peace of mind warranty will cover their expensive graphic card and as far as I know EVGA has always correctly dealt with warranty claims and was actually know to be very "pro consumer" oriented.

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

But if something goes wrong, users have the peace of mind warranty will cover their expensive graphic card and as far as I know EVGA has always correctly dealt with warranty claims and was actually know to be very "pro consumer" oriented.

Their step up (upgrade) program was also very nice, I don't know of any other that had that.

[dogwitch]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

Their step up (upgrade) program was also very nice, I don't know of any other that had that.

one other did for awhile. zotac i think? years ago.

 

[WereCat]

 

[Shah M]

4 hours ago, WereCat said:

 

Just got done watching this and it doesn't look great for EK US. I feel like they decided to play it fast and lose on the US side and it's now coming back to bite them.

As someone with some small knowledge of corporate structures, while convoluted it's not necessarily the case that any of the corporate relationships are that unusual, which is probably an indictment of the general business environment. Having said that the payment of staff is rough and a stain on the brand. I agree that EK can't just say it was those guys, we got rid of them and it's all good now. They need to make things right.

 

Last side note, I still don't like that Steve is not getting comment from the subject. His research is solid and his conclusion would stand up to any real scrutiny but comment is always best practice, especially if you want to enter the investigative journalism sphere. I enjoy his content but I want him to be better and follow journalistic best practice. It can only be good for him.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Shah M said:

Last side note, I still don't like that Steve is not getting comment from the subject. His research is solid and his conclusion would stand up to any real scrutiny but comment is always best practice, especially if you want to enter the investigative journalism sphere. I enjoy his content but I want him to be better and follow journalistic best practice. It can only be good for him.

Yep, you can seek comment as the last thing or intended last thing but you never know what they'll say and where that will lead. Sure you are "giving them a heads up" but you are also doing that to yourself if there is anything wrong or actually does need to be added from their comment.

[RejZoR]

I'm not sure what their end game was by setting up US HQ and then treating it like shit. US is as big of a market as EU. Not treating it as equal is just stupid as logistics would be way easier for US market if it was operated directly from US and probably cheaper too in terms of shipping costs for the users over there. It's easier to ship a container of products somewhere than each product from it individually. Cost and capacity wise.

 

Also seeing they had 50 millions € of income and seeing how mismanaged whole thing is, I think Eddy's passion project has grown too big for its own good.

[Shimejii]

6 hours ago, Shah M said:

Last side note, I still don't like that Steve is not getting comment from the subject. His research is solid and his conclusion would stand up to any real scrutiny but comment is always best practice, especially if you want to enter the investigative journalism sphere. I enjoy his content but I want him to be better and follow journalistic best practice. It can only be good for him.

Its kind of pointless. This practice only works if the subject matter requires it. This doesnt require them to comment on it. What would be the point of getting the comment of these type of people? Clearly they are scummy people, they do not need to allowed to speak on the matter when it comes to this video as its a "Heres all the info we have on it". If they want to talk about all the shady stuff they have been doing, they can do it on their own time. Its not a court hearing, nor is it a threat to someones life. Its just showing how just a few people in their management can cause such a huge shitshow. Theyve already tried to hide behind  "Old ceo is Back!" and that didnt go well.

 

This almost always ends up with a "No comment", a scapegoat entity, or or attempting to suppress the story via threatening lawsuit etc.