Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Godiwa]

1 minute ago, hmfaysal said:

My guess is, there won't be anything from LTT till thursday. So there will be no WAN show tonight. 

My wild guess, but keep your eyes peeled I guess.

someone at LMG already said there will be a WAN show... so would be "odd" if there wasn't. And it isn't really a "video production" which is what they halted... they still had a few ends to tie up too so not like they sit on their chair staring blankly into the air

[ze77y]

51 minutes ago, Cooldoe said:

1. Steve specifically mention he did not want to contact Linus. Your wording if you defense on him. Not his actual wording in the video. And he started the video talking about ethic and proceed to shove it all away. He is the one bringing the conversation about his ethic not me.

2. Again you are jumping off point. I am only demanding Steve to do what he accuses LMG on. If he is not going to do what he is preaching about why bother? My point is based on his own video he should disclose that and he 'forgot' to do. Based on his own suggestion he should create an apology video to 'forgot' such an important fact. Again I am using Steve logic here

3. You are deflecting here. The issue again Steve DID NOT DISCLOSE that it is an industry standard practice to make text correction on mistake instead of reshoot. In fact it is very uncommon for creator to reshoot such a small mistake.

4. Again you are deflection. The issue is Steve does not disclose that LMG already disclose multiple time about framework and there is no evidence of bias provided at all. Only Steve insinuating bias without a spec of proof. As Steve want to be harbinger of ethics, in this instance LMG have done their ethical obligation while Steve clearly left ethics as just an excuse.

5. Again you are deflecting on this. Base on Steve own standard he should disclose his dispute with ASUS and his feeling on LMG due to ASUS issue. In which he did not.

 

It is funny that a valid critic to GN considered as an attack. All the point I made is factual and using Steve own standard in the video. All I ask is the disclosure that Steve clearly did not do. Based on the standard he propose he should be criticized 

 

Steve explained why he didn't want to contact LTT beforehand. They been called out on some of these issues before and they just brushed them off. And he was right about that Linus will try to manipulate the audience, which he did with his first response anyway. I, as part of the said audience and someone who wants LTT to succeed, am happy Steve did call them out publicly, and even then only because of the public outcry that followed, they responded appropriately.

 

As about journalistic ethics, it's recommended to contact your subjects for a comment, but it's not mandatory and in some cases you just don't want to do it. I have worked as a newspaper journalist and currently making documentaries, being in this sphere for over 20 years, so I know how this plays out in practice.

 

I totally agree that important points should be reshoot -- or added even if it's someone else saying this, as LTT has done sometimes. Asterisks are lame and in some cases they flash by so quickly while your eyes are on charts, you can barely register them. Also, they're just too many lately..

 

In regards of conflict of interest, this is where I think Steve and other accusers are wrong. I trust LTT to be impartial, at least on the leadership level, although surely it's a balancing act. Framework connection has always been featured prominently and I haven't seen any change of attitude in laptop reviews. On the on the other time, why just don't Linus skip the laptop reviews entirely, it's not like there's not enough of topics for him to cover? The only time it seemed a bit dubious is when they rated Asus in the customer service video. Based on what was shown and my own experience as owner of many great Asus products, their customer service is 1/5.

 

[hmfaysal]

1 minute ago, Godiwa said:

6 months won't change anything... he has gone after companies that rip their customers a new one for years... this is just another one in the line... nothing new here and changes nothing

No no, he did something different this time. He talked about how he does not have a Youtube Rep this time. 

That matters. Hitting someone in the same platform, he inadvertently hit Youtube and Google. 

Steve didn't see it enough. People are not talking about it in this forum, but its in DV360 forums. Good call

[andreimj]

3 minutes ago, kewtz said:

I legit missed it, 300+ pages, I haven't gotten through all the content.

I see it, I believe it, it's factual.

Then sadly, you are one of the few. Good for you!

[Mouhfighter]

54 minutes ago, Majestic12 said:

You're bang on here and worded it better than I have so far. GN is nowhere near as innocent and impartial as they behave and the videos were very disingenuous to say the least by portraying things in a negative light and demanding ridiculous things from LMG. No-one takes down a video because of a small error that is not that significant. While there's definitely improvements possible and the staff was clearly overworked, the WAY GN went after LMG was despicable. They did their best to dress it up nicely but they still shoved a knife deep in his back. In fact, it's the way they dressed it up and pretended to be the good guys that pissed me off the most. At least admit your agenda instead of outright lying to the audience.

 

GN has been jealous of LMG for a long time and has taken many many digs at LMG in the past. As someone else said: you can feel there's some awkwardness underneath their online "friendship" but LMG NEVER went after GN. Linus also outright said on the WAN show that you can never kick down even if you're 100% in the right because you're always the loser when you do so as if he could predict GN going after him.

so why were their regularly jabs against GN or Hardware Unboxed, if they would be so great?

I mean... it is in video evidence that they shat on those two, to emphasize their super Lab....

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 minute ago, Owsleygarcia95 said:

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but it seems somewhat related. Does anyone know if WAN show is happening tonight? It seems like they may have to break the streak. Would probably get a huge amount of viewers if they do it. But with the whole "we're shutting down video", I'm assuming there won't be one. I don't think they specifically mentioned WAN show. I'd imagine Linus is doing major damage control right now, and is a little afraid of facing his audience right now. I personally think the whole thing is a little bad, but I think it's got blown way put of proportion. If you Google LTT, there are tons of articles. I don't beleive that the most aggressive haters on this forum, actually want LTT canceled. I would imagine the vast majority of them will continue to watch LTT no matter how bad they say it is.

I certainly don't want them closed down, this forum alone is one of the most valuable resources out there - I'd hate to have to resort to Reddit.

 

Even if the Madison thing is true, you don't solve these problems by just firing everyone so they can move on to another company and continue the same toxic behaviour.  I'd like to believe the situation is salvageable.

[Cooldoe]

5 minutes ago, Mouhfighter said:

Courtesy and Ethics are two different things...

 

If somebody did not act with courtesy it is uncourteous, but can still be ethical...

 

Initially, I was a little bit torn about GN not contacting Linus first, but after thinking about it and seeing his response I think it was the right call.

IF GN would have contacted Linus first I bet there would have been a huge gaslighting going on, a fast video turning the narrative in Linus favor, Linus trying to spin the narrative around the Billet Labs problem and the conflicts of interests with Asus and Intel...

 

We have seen that occasionally in WAN shows (see trust me bro etc.). Not to mention that Linus also would most likely not have had the courtesy to JUST reply or give an interview, but ( at least in my opinion) would have striked back to deflect, taking the momentum from GNs Video and making it look like its just a salty reply to Linus' video.

 

LTT and Linus had been approached multiple times about quality , well now it fell on their feet....

I think it is useless to talk to you as clearly you only want to see GN side.

The standard I use is clearly the same standard Steve require LMG to do but clearly you will not want GN to honor his own suggestion on ethics.

It is interesting how GN can critic LMG but GN cannot be criticized using the same standard GN criticized LMG.

 

[Starglider]

[hmfaysal]

Just now, Starglider said:

[Cooldoe]

3 minutes ago, Mouhfighter said:

so why were their regularly jabs against GN or Hardware Unboxed, if they would be so great?

I mean... it is in video evidence that they shat on those two, to emphasize their super Lab....

That was wrong and done by one of the staff not linus.

Linus have personally apologize for that mistake.

 

I am not aware of other instances, if there is please enlighten me.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Cooldoe
Wrong word

[dragonuck76]

31 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I am focusing on what GN said, as people are shifting the blame onto GN, I personally believe GN has been professional and impartial with his videos.

 

1. People are only talking about the ethics as if its some concrete rule because Linus decided to deflect and gaslight people, there isn't any requirement for reaching out for comment. A lot of times in the media a reporter will say "we reached out for comment, but X company declined to make a statement" which usually means the company ignored them. Like I said GN has tried to talk to LMG before on things but Linus gets too emotional.

2. Linus talking about it on the WAN show isn't the same as making a video for the LTT channel that would make it a lot more clear to everyone, only the super fans sit through a 2-3 hour long WAN show. 

Also Linus talking about the mouse issue doesn't change the comment they made in the video denying that the plastic was still on the mouse feet, when comments were pointing out the plastic was still on the mouse feet.

3. While a lot of youtubers can add text corrections in videos, only channels the size of LTT can edit or change a whole video while still keeping all of the views and monetization of the initial video that was uploaded.

4. There is an inherent conflict of interest with Framework, Linus saying they have an investment with Framework doesn't change that they have a financial interest in Framework, and shouldn't be involved in laptop videos or reviews.

5.  GN isn't biased towards any sponsor though, there is nothing that needs a disclaimer as GN has given Asus fair criticisms for their faults. Meanwhile Linus went too easy on Asus while discussing the whole Asus motherboard BIOS problem, and went easy on them again by asking about something in a product manual because Asus is one of LMG's top sponsorships.

 

The only thing GN pointed out being a smaller channel is that they went into making the video knowing it would hurt them more than it would hurt LMG because angry LMG/LTT fans will go after them, LMG is a larger company and should be held to a higher standard because of the influence they have over the tech community.

There isn't anything objective by spinning the blame and blaming GN here, the pendantic nitpicking only shows people want to attack GN because they think of Linus as a friend.

4. There is an inherent conflict of interest with Framework, Linus saying they have an investment with Framework doesn't change that they have a financial interest in Framework, and shouldn't be involved in laptop videos or reviews.  

 

*Linus is able to do so as it is from his own personal income, and has made this clear so many times.  He loves tech, and a laptop like framework is nothing new, and I wont be surprised that others follow this... he has shown no ill-intend with this

 

 

2. Linus talking about it on the WAN show isn't the same as making a video for the LTT channel that would make it a lot more clear to everyone, only the super fans sit through a 2-3 hour long WAN show. 

 

*the WAN show is just in name, but it is also his way to communicate back to the community.  They do time stamp the videos later. so you dont have to sit through hours.

 

 

 

1. People are only talking about the ethics as if its some concrete rule because Linus decided to deflect and gaslight people, there isn't any requirement for reaching out for comment. A lot of times in the media a reporter will say "we reached out for comment, but X company declined to make a statement" which usually means the company ignored them. Like I said GN has tried to talk to LMG before on things but Linus gets too emotional.

 

* we only have Steves word that he has tried to communicate with LMG, but seeing as Steve got it all wrong about Billet Labs, and the fact other videos of his, he has made alot of mistakes;  but he also has done good stuff, but in some with ill-intent

 

 

 

3. While a lot of youtubers can add text corrections in videos, only channels the size of LTT can edit or change a whole video while still keeping all of the views and monetization of the initial video that was uploaded. 

 

* thats a bit bias, do you work for LMG to know if they are able to; as you say lot of youtubers can add text corrections in videos;  But to that end I wont be surprised to see far less with that being needed

 

 

5.  GN isn't biased towards any sponsor though, there is nothing that needs a disclaimer as GN has given Asus fair criticisms for their faults. Meanwhile Linus went too easy on Asus while discussing the whole Asus motherboard BIOS problem, and went easy on them again by asking about something in a product manual because Asus is one of LMG's top sponsorships.

 

* what is your point, to be you come across a GN fan which is ok, but you act like GN are right, and that LMG hae always been wrong on this.  LMG have been critical, anker for one, and others that we do and do not know.  But as for Asus, he has pointed out mistakes, just like he has with Intel, AMD, 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ze77y said:

 

Steve explained why he didn't want to contact LTT beforehand. They been called out on some of these issues before and they just brushed them off.

 

I doubt LMG would have "brushed them off" if GN explained the situation properly.

 

The simple fact remains, GN did not reach out to LMG for comment. That wasn't GN being sloppy. That was GN's intent. GN did not want LTT to get ahead of this. They wanted to run LMG into the ground. That was/is their intent. It is in their videos, They even said they will not respond to LMG's video ahead of time. If GN wanted to be fair, why wouldn't they allow for conversation? I have said this a couple of times before, GN wanted this to be a wildfire, that was their intent. 

[Majestic12]

44 minutes ago, NorKris said:

do you think GN did fear the LTT labs?  

If LMG manages to get the most out of LTT Labs, GN may well fear it for good reason. GN is known for going in hard on statistics & numbers and the very reason they go after LMG for fluffing their numbers is exactly because they know they go way overboard on their own vids so they're in a strong position to throw stones from. If they think LMG may start to get more number heavy & provide more accurate data ... oh dear poor GN.

 

And in that sense, I think Steve & GN may well have gotten more jealous of LMG because (and let's be honest here) GN would make better use of all that equipment than LMG likely well. To GN and Steve the sort of equipment Linus has is like a wet dream. It's like a poor PC gamer watching an 8 year old get a 5000$ PC to play Minecraft on - you're miffed. Linus basically got industry grade testing equipment for a tech channel which GN can only DREAM of affording. You think this wouldn't cause jealousy?

[Alex Atkin UK]

6 minutes ago, hmfaysal said:

No no, he did something different this time. He talked about how he does not have a Youtube Rep this time.

Seemed to me he said that to point out how burning bridges with LTT actually puts him at a disadvantage, highlighting how he REALLY didn't want to make the video in the first place but couldn't sit back to watch the dumpster fire any longer.  It actually gives him more credibility, not less.

[dragonuck76]

16 minutes ago, Mouhfighter said:

Courtesy and Ethics are two different things...

 

If somebody did not act with courtesy it is uncourteous, but can still be ethical...

 

Initially, I was a little bit torn about GN not contacting Linus first, but after thinking about it and seeing his response I think it was the right call.

IF GN would have contacted Linus first I bet there would have been a huge gaslighting going on, a fast video turning the narrative in Linus favor, Linus trying to spin the narrative around the Billet Labs problem and the conflicts of interests with Asus and Intel...

 

We have seen that occasionally in WAN shows (see trust me bro etc.). Not to mention that Linus also would most likely not have had the courtesy to JUST reply or give an interview, but ( at least in my opinion) would have striked back to deflect, taking the momentum from GNs Video and making it look like its just a salty reply to Linus' video.

 

LTT and Linus had been approached multiple times about quality , well now it fell on their feet....

we dont know if Linus would have acted one way or the other, as GN did not act as they should have...  GN Steve, knew exactly what he was doing, as the video was very obvious with its intent in the way it was edited....

[Blademaster91]

3 minutes ago, Mouhfighter said:

so why were their regularly jabs against GN or Hardware Unboxed, if they would be so great?

I mean... it is in video evidence that they shat on those two, to emphasize their super Lab....

The jabs at GN or HW Unboxed feel like immature punching down at others, or LMG wants to be the only one doing reviews with benchmark tests. LMG wants to look like the largest most reputable tech media company by saying they have the better data and it seems like thats why it was named "LTT Labs" because it sounds professional or scientific, while much smaller channels have been running more accurate tests without needing a massive lab building.

And yeah there is video evidence on both instances yet people are still in denial.

[andreimj]

6 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

I doubt LMG would have "brushed them off" if GN explained the situation properly.

 

The simple fact remains, GN did not reach out to LMG for comment. That wasn't GN being sloppy. That was GN's intent. GN did not want LTT to get ahead of this. They wanted to run LMG into the ground. That was/is their intent. It is in their videos, They even said they will not respond to LMG's video ahead of time. If GN wanted to be fair, why wouldn't they allow for conversation? I have said this a couple of times before, GN wanted this to be a wildfire, that was their intent. 

If Steve would've reached out there would've been no video. I wouldn't say this would be a great, because LMG was forced this way to make important changes. Sadly, Linus beeing a stubborn person, he is hard to convince otherwise on the urgency. IMO the most urgent matter was to relax with the quantity

[ze77y]

3 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

I doubt LMG would have "brushed them off" if GN explained the situation properly.

 

The simple fact remains, GN did not reach out to LMG for comment. That wasn't GN being sloppy. That was GN's intent. GN did not want LTT to get ahead of this. They wanted to run LMG into the ground. That was/is their intent. It is in their videos, They even said they will not respond to LMG's video ahead of time. If GN wanted to be fair, why wouldn't they allow for conversation? I have said this a couple of times before, GN wanted this to be a wildfire, that was their intent. 

I said nothing that contradicts what you just said. I'll only add that I am glad GN did what they did as otherwise

1) I wouldn't have known some of these facts

2) LTT wouldn't really change -- they clearly needed the public beating

[NorKris]

4 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

That was GN's intent. GN did not want LTT to get ahead of this. They wanted to run LMG into the ground. 

No, no,no  go seek help. 

[Owsleygarcia95]

9 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I certainly don't want them closed down, this forum alone is one of the most valuable resources out there - I'd hate to have to resort to Reddit.

 

Even if the Madison thing is true, you don't solve these problems by just firing everyone so they can move on to another company and continue the same toxic behaviour.  I'd like to believe the situation is salvageable.

Agreed. I highly doubt this is going to bring LTT down completely. I'm sure it will be a bumpy road. I would imagine a significantly high percentage of the audience are mostly young liberal beleive all women types and that certainly won't help things. But at the end of the day, LTT is one of those channels that once you start watching it a little, it's very hard to stop watching all together. Even if someone groped this girl or something, which we have absolutely proof of, it would appear to be the first time it's happened there. I just don't beleive that enough people are going to care about one incident, to stop in big enough numbers to have a large affect. I hope I'm not wrong. 

[Alvin853]

9 hours ago, maquisofjustic said:

Hi gamer nexus called out your relation to noctua, i belive you should stopped being sponsored by them!

Being sponsored by Noctua is fine. Using their products even when that's going to affect the outcome of product tests and not mentioning their relationship with Noctua is not fine. Don't use your sponsors products when trying to produce independent unbiased review data, it's that simple.

[NullValid]

33 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I'm not sure what you mean, LMG is going to be fine

I wasn't saying that LMG wouldn't be fine in the longer term, but if we talk from a purely analytical POV, LMG have lost subscribers - both on YouTube and on Floatplane.

 

They've also faced a wave of negative publicity (including coverage in Forbes) which negatively affects their brand image.

 

Meanwhile Gamers Nexus has only gained subscribers both on YouTube and on their Patreon and apart from some fans being upset at Gamers Nexus for how they've handled things have looked more rosey lately.

[Cooldoe]

Just now, andreimj said:

If Steve would've reached out there would've been no video. I wouldn't say this would be a great, because LMG was forced this to make important changes. Sadly, Linus beeing a stubborn person, he is hard to convince otherwise on the urgency. IMO the most urgent matter was to relax with the quantity

Not really as I clearly pointed out he could still release the video and he will be seen more positively but he clearly choose not to do that.

 

There are also other issue on his video as I pointed out

[dragonuck76]

Just now, ze77y said:

I said nothing that contradicts what you just said. I'll only add that I am glad GN did what they did as otherwise

1) I wouldn't have known some of these facts

2) LTT wouldn't really change -- they clearly needed the public beating

Not ture at all.  As you do not work or know the team at LMG.    What we do know is that GN video and the intent was ill made and covered with facts that needed to be made.  He could have kept the video to 15mins, and said Linus, get in order here is why, in 15mins, and then left it there... but NO, he showed clips, made accusations about Billet Labs that he had no clue about, too videos of staff comments about needing to slow down, which even Linus was on saying the same... which is more support that they knew and as he has said many times on the WAN show they are working on it... 

[andreimj]

2 minutes ago, ze77y said:

I said nothing that contradicts what you just said. I'll only add that I am glad GN did what they did as otherwise

1) I wouldn't have known some of these facts

2) LTT wouldn't really change -- they clearly needed the public beating

You forget that LTT was changing for more that a year now. Maybe you meant that it wasn't changing fast enough according to your and Steve's standards. Now this is arguable