Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Mouhfighter]

4 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

they were friends (if they still are I can't say) but they were and that is publicly known

mmh, that is a little suprising, since we hade continued drama between them, and i can barely find any "good" interactions between them..

 

 

This here the

[Shlouski]

7 minutes ago, Majestic12 said:

Why would they do it in such a malicious way if that were true?

 

I had the same issues, criticising GN equals supporting Linus, some people seem to find it difficult or do not understand the concept of being objective.

 

A large percentage of the population will hear one side of a story and make their minds up, many others are fanboys and trolls, and some but not enough will be actually be objective. 

 

Seemingly more people are standing up and criticising GN's actions, which is a good thing, it's important that people are given equal opportunities to express their views, even if you don't agree with them. So far it seems the majority of people criticising GN are subjected to hate and disgust, and/or accused of condoning LMG's actions. 

[dustypaws]

2 minutes ago, Mouhfighter said:

mmh, that is a little suprising, since we hade continued drama between them, and i can barely find any "good" interactions between them..

 

 

This here the

What does it matter?

[Mouhfighter]

1 minute ago, dustypaws said:

What does it matter?

It matters because some forum participants implied that Steves's personal friendship with Linus made the "betrayal" of saying the truth even more painful.

[Vexenar]

2 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

Seemingly more people are standing up and criticising GN's actions, which is a good thing, it's important that people are given equal opportunities to express their views, even if you don't agree with them. So far it seems the majority of people criticising GN are subjected to hate and disgust, and/or accused of condoning LMG's actions. 

My take on it is that both GN and LMG have their own ulterior motives for creating a narrative. 
However, using that argument shouldn't be used as a smokescreen to deflect the valid criticism that's been presented. 

Could Steve have worded the video differently? Yes!
Should Linus have responded differently to prevent this community backlash? Absolutely!

[hmfaysal]

5 minutes ago, Vexenar said:

Using your own logic, why are you creating a negative narrative for both Madison and GN, if they are little guys compared to LTT?
Why are 99% of your posts in on the forums supporting LMG and Linus without admitting they also made mistakes, when they clearly did? 

We can debate semantics and personal intentions, but I would rather put my energy in looking at the facts. 

The issue is (for as far as you were unaware of it) that people who worked in the LTT labs claimed they had better data and were using better processes than Hardware Unboxed and Gamers Nexus, who are being seen in the industry as two sources of very viable and corract data when it comes to testing computer hardware. 

As we've seen by numerous videos, the GN video and LTT charts their data is highly inaccurate but due to their broad reach they can potentially give consumers wrong data that leads to wrong purchases, and effectively wasting consumers their money when it is not something they have/had to spend. 

I believe LMG due to their broad outreach has a responsibility in making sure they create proper information for consumers that's accurate to industry standards when they also go out of their way to recommend products like that. 

Man, the way Steve published the video did not sit well with me. I guess I watched it couple minutes after it was live. Its not I am for LTT, lots of people have already said LTTs way of handling things for the last 6 months was wrong. Yeah, we all know it. It was still fun. Some incomplete videos with no conclusions, then they pick up the same project months later, keep that incomplete. I know. We all know that.

But GN, on their high horse, didn't sit well. Just want to know who is going to sponsor them after 6 months. Companies that work with vindictive high horse riders are dangerous. 

Also want to see their viewership numbers at six months time. Same goes for the 6 employees that work at GN. Do they increase their workforce? Do they increase their paycheck? 

Very excited to see things unfold

[dustypaws]

8 minutes ago, Mouhfighter said:

It matters because some forum participants implied that Steves's personal friendship with Linus made the "betrayal" of saying the truth even more painful.

 

It led to something good, either way. Analysing what the two main characters had for breakfast and how long it took them between waking up and their 1st bowl movement that day isn't really helpful.

[Cooldoe]

1 minute ago, Mouhfighter said:

It matters because some forum participants implied that Steves's personal friendship with Linus made the "betrayal" of saying the truth even more painful.

Nope. The issues is more not making a courtesy call about the issue. Which usually the ethical thing to do as well.

 

If I am in GN shoe I will call Linus informing him I will publish this video and see if he have any comment.

That would be the ethical and bro thing to do.

Calling Linus does not prevent GN to publish the video. It show that he really want to solve the issue instead of looking to create controversies

[Blademaster91]

57 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

The facts show the following:

1. GN had access to LMG that few had before them.

2. GN host Steve knew how to press Linus's buttons to get an emotional response.

3. GN knew LMG was restructuring. GN knew that LMG knew they had problems and had to exploit that knowledge before LMG had the opportunity to restructure.

4. GN manipulated the narrative and weaponized cancel culture.

5. GN admit to this in their own videos. Go watch it again. They said they know how LTT/LMG is going to respond.

6. GN kept control over the narrative knowing there will be a video after the letter preemptively said they will not respond.

 

GN knew exactly what they were doing. They are not innocent. Let us recognize these facts.

1. GN had reasons for not contacting LMG, he has tried to contact LMG in the past over things they got wrong or things that needed to be addressed, Linus ignored them, so Steve understandably didn't want to contact them.

2. GN making a video didn't cause Linus to make an emotional response, that is Linus's problem.

3. If the reason LMG are getting consistent inaccuracies in their videos is because of restructuring, then they need to slow down on video production, restructuring in the company and still rushing out videos every day doesn't excuse the kind of errors they're making.

4. GN reported on things they've been getting wrong for a long time, people on the forum have been asking for LMG to improve for years now. There is no cancel culture here, the only ones I've been seeing trying to "cancel" anyone are the angry Linus fans trying to attack GN.

5. I've seen both of the GN videos, can you point out where GN admits they manipulated facts that were already public information in their videos?

6. GN contacting LMG wouldn't have made any difference as LMG decided to deflect away from admitting they messed up.

Those aren't facts, those are twisting things to attack GN, when GN was simply the messenger here.

[andreimj]

26 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

Yea I am done.

 

Right now I am just repeating myself. I will not do that anymore.

I was never so involved in a youtuber drama before. I guess I got triggered because it felt so unfair and I needed to speak up. It was and it is a good exercise to improve my discourse and argumentative skills. I am too repeating myself in saying that the callout was not not merrited, but sadly people got overly upset for the lesser of reasons and not the ones that mattered imho. I believe that what happened in the tech community can be extrapolated into others like social or political debates and I felt the need to do my part. I tried to stay objective and support one of my favourite youtubers not blindly, but for the right reasons and according to my own individual values

[Majestic12]

3 minutes ago, Vexenar said:

My take on it is that both GN and LMG have their own ulterior motives for creating a narrative. 
However, using that argument shouldn't be used as a smokescreen to deflect the valid criticism that's been presented. 

Could Steve have worded the video differently? Yes!
Should Linus have responded differently to prevent this community backlash? Absolutely!

You're basically saying what I said. My issue is that GN acts as if they're the patron saints of all that is holy & right in the tech world, LMG NEVER EVER acted this way.

 

Do you watch the WAN show? Because Linus is incredibly open about how he's not happy with the standard of quality, how his team is working on software to and hardware to make testing both faster and more accurate, how right now it's a big mess to manage since he's growing so fast, etc. This is someone who is well aware that he can do better but is in over his head to the point where he had to appoint a CEO despite not wanting to for a very long time.

 

And for me the main blame lies on GN for the simple fact that they instigated this. If you're going to be the one to set the first step, you BETTER do it right and GN took quite a few missteps and then took even more in their response video. The sad part is that by adding plain wrong info, they made it easier for LMG to deflect because Linus will not have missed the fact that this was a personal attack on him and Steve well knows Linus would respond this way. It's ugly & messy ... and GN is still to blame. A more muted response that stuck with facts would have been much better.

[Shlouski]

9 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

they were friends

Were they? 

 

They share the same space, they have overlapping communities, have occasionally worked together, and were polite towards each other, but a friendship needs more than this. 

 

Now this is just my opinion, but I always felt like it was a little awkward between the two of them, and now that I have looked back at videos of them together, neither of them seem particularly at ease with each other, so I never saw them as friends. 

[freeagent]

You guys are fucked.

 

GN did nothing wrong.

 

Everyone is sick of LMGs shit.

 

Except for the super fans lol.

[Godiwa]

3 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

Were they? 

 

They share the same space, they have overlapping communities, have occasionally worked together, and were polite towards each other, but a friendship needs more than this. 

 

Now this is just my opinion, but I always felt like it was a little awkward between the two of them, and now that I have looked back at videos of them together, neither of them seem particularly at ease with each other, so I never saw them as friends. 

they both said so... so yeah... even if you don't think they can be friends because "insert whatever excuse that makes no sense"

[Vexenar]

3 minutes ago, hmfaysal said:

Man, the way Steve published the video did not sit well with me.

I have some issues with the way the facts were presented in the video, and the overall narrative, but I do believe the video had to be presented the way it was to force change in LMG before it's too late. It's not like there have not been issues with GN in the past but (for the most part) those issues were solved in a reasonable time frame that I am happy with. 

I can't personally imagine Steve released this video without taking into account what the possible backlash would be from the LTT fanbase and the entire tech community as a whole would be, de-monitizing the video in that sense seems to have been in good faith to paint the picture that he wasn't releasing it in a malicious way. Whether that's true remains to be seen because the Billit Labs issue he brought forward seems to have attracted some inconsistencies in terms of e-mail traffic and whether GN was aware that Billit Labs gave their prototype to LMG. 

We'll see I guess. 

[andreimj]

27 minutes ago, Vexenar said:

Using your own logic, why are you creating a negative narrative for both Madison and GN, if they are little guys compared to LTT?
Why are 99% of your posts in on the forums supporting LMG and Linus without admitting they also made mistakes, when they clearly did? 

We can debate semantics and personal intentions, but I would rather put my energy in looking at the facts. 

The issue is (for as far as you were unaware of it) that people who worked in the LTT labs claimed they had better data and were using better processes than Hardware Unboxed and Gamers Nexus, who are being seen in the industry as two sources of very viable and corract data when it comes to testing computer hardware. 

As we've seen by numerous videos, the GN video and LTT charts their data is highly inaccurate but due to their broad reach they can potentially give consumers wrong data that leads to wrong purchases, and effectively wasting consumers their money when it is not something they have/had to spend. 

I believe LMG due to their broad outreach has a responsibility in making sure they create proper information for consumers that's accurate to industry standards when they also go out of their way to recommend products like that. 

Because if you would've read those 306 pages you would've found out that most of us aren't saying that LTT is without fault, quite the opposite. Now that the storm has passed, we are calmer, have a broader view and we are more cerebral rather than emotional. This being said, you keep the same narrative as the wave of irrational hate had, which is getting kindof old at this point. We acknoledged the bad of LMG, now do your part in seeing the inconsistencies of Steve. I will leave Madison out of this and so should you

[yuck]

24 minutes ago, hmfaysal said:

Of course, its embarrassing, It breaks my heart to even type in these words. But it is what it is. 306 pages, my fellow human beings cannot utter these words in fear of getting cancelled. Thats also embarrassing 

Who the hell is canceling you?

I'm pretty sure that I have heard you complain about it before but you never elaborate any further.

[Blademaster91]

11 minutes ago, freeagent said:

You guys are fucked.

 

GN did nothing wrong.

 

Everyone is sick of LMGs shit.

 

Except for the super fans lol.

This, I've been sick of LMG's shit for a while, every time they make an easily avoided screw up, Linus can't separate his personal feelings from business issues and goes on emotional rants and his super fans rush to defend him.

He either needs to step back and let other people at LMG better represent the company or just take a break.

I'm so sick of this, the super fans defending LMG for making consistent mistakes in the LTT video threads was annoying enough, with all the devout fans over this it feels like reddit with all the echo chamber deflecting the blame at GN.

[TheNamesKyle]

If you think GN did anything wrong, you either don't watch GN or are being a contrarian just to be one. 

 

GN pointed out facts in a professional manner, like he does. He responded to the terrible response Linus had in a civil manner. The million dollar company doesn't get a pass on mistakes because it's owner "tires." They made mistakes, they were pointed out and then the owner made a terrible response to them. How that falls back on the person just reporting serious errors is coping at it's finest. 

 

Keep watching and supporting LTT if you want. I honestly think doomers take this a bit far as well. Linus isn't stupid, LMG will most likely fix these issues, but the whole blame game is just stupid. 

[andreimj]

21 minutes ago, TheNamesKyle said:

If you think GN did anything wrong, you either don't watch GN or are being a contrarian just to be one. 

 

GN pointed out facts in a professional manner, like he does. He responded to the terrible response Linus had in a civil manner. The million dollar company doesn't get a pass on mistakes because it's owner "tires." They made mistakes, they were pointed out and then the owner made a terrible response to them. How that falls back on the person just reporting serious errors is coping at it's finest. 

 

Keep watching and supporting LTT if you want. I honestly think doomers take this a bit far as well. Linus isn't stupid, LMG will most likely fix these issues, but the whole blame game is just stupid. 

well, that a simplistic view. You can't only see the point of only side. When one continues to do this mistake the discussion is deemed pointles and counterproductive. Linus and LMG acknowledged their mistakes, now you and Steve should acknowledge yours for a change. That if it is really about truth, fairness and of course...accuracy

[ImpliedSilence]

16 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

Were they? 

 

They share the same space, they have overlapping communities, have occasionally worked together, and were polite towards each other, but a friendship needs more than this. 

 

Now this is just my opinion, but I always felt like it was a little awkward between the two of them, and now that I have looked back at videos of them together, neither of them seem particularly at ease with each other, so I never saw them as friends. 

This is what happens with parasocial friendships, you think you know them and understand them.

[Vexenar]

13 minutes ago, andreimj said:

Because if you would've read those 306 pages you would've found out that most of us aren't saying that LTT is without fault, quite the opposite. Now that the storm has passed, we are calmer, have a broader view and we are more cerebral rather than emotional. This being said, you keep the same narrative as the wave of irrational hate had, which is getting kindof old at this point. We acknoledged the bad of LMG, now do your part in seeing the inconsistencies of Steve. I will leave out Madison and so should you

I did read through those 306 pages, and the subreddit, and the Youtube comments. 
The majority of what people are saying in those channels (and especially on the LTT forums) is that Gamers Nexus should have reached out to Linus and that it wasn't fair to confront him with the issue head on, the debate hasn't been about the issues that were raised in the video but rather about how and with which motive the video was made. 

If you look at my post history you will see that I am being critical on both GN and LMG, but the issue that I also raised is that LMG with the broader outreach in the tech space has a much bigger responsibility to make sure that content and information they release is accurate and held to industry standards. I'm honestly not sure why I am being compared to irrational hateful fans, because so far all my posts have been presenting and supporting facts and giving my opinion based on that information. 

I am a fan of LTT, LMG and Linus as a personality. That is the main reason why I am critical of the way they acted to begin with. 
If I have learned anything from watching Linus through the (decade?) at this point it's that his first reaction is his unfiltered personal view on the matter, it doesn't matter to me what the corporate response after that is, his unfiltered take is what I use because that's what he is actually thinking about the situation. 

His initial reaction in this thread was a really poor reply to the issues that were raised, and most of it was deflecting blame and promise to do better, which is a narrative he has been regurgitating for about two years when the first inconsistencies in videos were being addressed. So far rather than improving the quality it's gotten worse and the absolute height of it was the testing of the Billit Labs prototybe, and that's not even taken into account how that issue was handled after the video was done and dusted. 

LMG really needs to improve how they do things, and in that sense I still think the video (while having inconsistencies and the narrative being slightly questionable) was absolutely needed to force change. 

[Godiwa]

1 minute ago, andreimj said:

well, that a simplistic view. You can't see the point of only one part of the story only. When one continues to do this mistake the discussion is deemed pointles and counterproductive. Linus and LMG acknoledged their mistakes, now you and Steve should acknowledge yours for a change. That if it is really about truth, fairness and of course...accuracy

they have brushed off and ignored those SAME mistakes for YEARS when brought up... so that they NOW after the shizshow FINALLY claim they will do something... that is not a saving grace... they should have done so AGES ago... and trying to blame GN constantly is just dull... move on and end the crusade... LMG messed up... didn't listen... finally someone big enough called them out and they HAD to act... if that hadn't happened nothing would have changed...

[Shlouski]

11 minutes ago, Vexenar said:

My take on it is that both GN and LMG have their own ulterior motives for creating a narrative. 
However, using that argument shouldn't be used as a smokescreen to deflect the valid criticism that's been presented. 

Could Steve have worded the video differently? Yes!
Should Linus have responded differently to prevent this community backlash? Absolutely!

 

Now this is what I like to see, some one actually eloquently expressing an opinion that might not completely align with my own. 

 

I feel like linus is more genuine, what you see is what you get, maybe it's because linus shares so much of himself and his life with us, to me he's a good guy that messes up sometimes. 

 

Though Steve is almost always right in what he's says, I feel like he is hiding something, he is very calculating and seems to enjoy ripping into people, though it's well deserved the majority of the time. 

 

Does LMG need to do better, yes.

 

Could have GN have handle this better, I think so. 

 

Do they have ulterior motives maybe, but personally inclined to think GN does. 

[hmfaysal]

19 minutes ago, freeagent said:

You guys are fucked.

 

GN did nothing wrong.

 

Everyone is sick of LMGs shit.

 

Except for the super fans lol.

Isn't any brand survive with its super fans? With regular fans, they get the breathing room to expand, which isn't necessary but fun to have.

So, if the core consumer group is intact, how is everything destroyed? Makes you kinda sad right?