Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Jignesh Chauhan]

Yesterday LTT lost around 100K subs (i am not one of them). This is not called for.

I Love LTT, but no one should have blind love or blind trust on anyone.

GN did call out issues with data quality and other issues.

I do not agree with all the points that GN highlighted. 

 

People working in LTT / LMG has their hear at the right place. 

It is fast past organization.

Sometimes their ambition to grow had put obstacles on quality, attention to detail, rushed videos. 

 

If pumping out 25+ videos per week is a must to keep LMG afloat then so be it.

There is a constant process to improve quality and give the viewer the right information they deserve.

That means if it takes more effort, & payroll time. The effort if getting it right matters.

Linus has time and again said that it is not the effort to invest a paid employee time to redo or correct the mistake in a video.

This is the hole point; it is important to correct the mistake and try to achieve highest quality as possible. 

 

Linus's response yesterday on the forum was not great in my opinion. 

Own up to the mistakes, speak about how to do things differently and improve current processes.

 

I hope LMG does not become the giant cooperation working style of organization.

 

[Mrpizzaeater145]

1 minute ago, mikaelus said:

I think you need to write less and read more.

I gavz up on all that shit tonight. Fuck is the point to being right for people I think are trash. som timz i feel like why we talk right? The answer is for kids so they don't eat their young. We are going their.

 

 

[J82465]

Oh The irony of millions spent in labs to “RE-TEST EVERYTIME” just to get more errors than testing properly one time, then fuck up by not following your own policy of retesting just to save $500 and then lose thousands because of it

[mikaelus]

1 minute ago, RotoCoreOne said:

I thing you need to look up what ethics are

This coming from someone defending a guy who started casting aspersions at someone else without evidence, because it fit his narrative? Steve was carried away in the same way Linus was - a bit of evidence made him think he can now pass judgement on everything and everyone with no actual proof anymore. It's quite comical, actually. That's why I don't like any of the Youtubers. Popularity goes to their heads.

[perryckd]

9 minutes ago, Cheerscake said:

Nobody probably cares about yet another comment on this but because of just how ridiculous this discussion is I felt like I had to try and make at least a small contribution.

While the core of many of Steve's arguments has validity, I cannot shake the sense of him being overly harsh and personal. He's making himself out to be an objective, documenting hero who is taking tremendous risk when many of his arguments and most of his language is anything but adhering to the professional ethical standard he likes to set out. "Incompetent, immature"  just to name to examples which are not at all conducive to affecting the change he claims he seeks.

To then go ahead and intensify that personal language in a follow-up video whilst cherry-picking sentences from Linus' response in this thread makes me want to take opposition to Steve's stance even more. In the here response Linus talks about efforts to improve processes, how that's a challenge and how it's equally an ambitious goal.

Yes, the points raised are concerning and need to be adressed but what else is there to do? Awareness has been raised, the message has been received that the errors don't go unnoticed but to go after LMG the way the undertone of both videos does, isn't helping anyone. 

 

no. this is a valuable level headed feed back. you see through the cloud of FUD/hate steve loves to build his base from

 

another reminder, Steve does not hold himself to the same standard when making a mistake 

 

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/?do=findComment&comment=16081403

 

 

[Reclus]

5 hours ago, ReallyThough said:

I've been reading and watching and waiting to make a post, first one here.

As much as I agree that the things brought up in Gamer's Nexus video have merit and bear discussion, I have to question Steve's timing and the way he produced this video.

It seems, on the surface, to be a fact based, unbiased look at LMG's recent video inaccuracies and issues with ethics etc, after repeated viewings and reading up, I have come to my own conclusion that Steve himself has clear bias against the new direction of LMG.

Also, I have to question Steve's integrity here.

 

Hear me out; for the longest time (years and years), LMG and GN have existed in parallel. LTT would be fast and entertaining with (often) the bare minimum of measurements to reach a conclusion.

While Gamer's Nexus has always been the one to go WAY deeper, and measure everything, and compare everything.

 

Now, with LTT labs, LMG will be crossing right into Steve's domain and right over him. LMG has proclaimed loudly for a long time now, that when the labs is in full swing, the amount of data that's going to be gathered will make Labs the #1 stop for anything. This is what Steve and his team have been doing.

 

Now Steve recently revealed a SIGNIFICANT investment of over 1/4 of a million dollars into an anechoic chamber. LTT Labs has one.

Steve has talked about all the things he's going to be able to test with even more accuracy. Same as LTT Labs.

Linus has not been shy about talking about how they plan on testing everything, headphones, microphones, cellphones, wifi devices etc. And with all the testing hardware that LMG is investing, what is there left for GN to do but mirror the results of a much larger channel?

 

That's why, for me, the GN video seems more like a hit piece, to sow FUD (Fear, uncertainty and doubt) in the efficacy of the LTT labs.

He seems to be saying; look at all the mistakes they're making, all the corrections, all the wrong conclusions that contradict the data etc. We (Gamer's Nexus) won't make those same mistakes.

And the fact that instead of contacting Linus directly and just asking straight up "WTF bro? I'm hearing that you sold a prototype instead of returning it, wtf happened?", he instead skips that part, because he knows that if he makes it look like something nefarious then it will make his point seem more apt.

 

That's a huge conflict of interest right there, and one I can't shake. And really, this feels like Steve's own "Trust me bro!" moment, where if he had done this in a more unbiased way, I might tend to just trust him.

 

 

The other thing, I have a real problem with all the people posting here that LMG has somehow potentially destroyed a small start up, because they didn't get their prototype back.

Ok, what if LTT HAD sent it back and it got lost in shipping? What then? What if it got destroyed in shipping there or back? What if Linus himself dropped it and wrecked it to the point of not being usable?

Billet Labs would have already considered these as a possibility and sent it anyways. The idea that this one prototype was SO important to the success of their company that they would EVER let it out of their hands is preposterous.

 

 

Also, you don't make things from billet by hand, you CNC it, using some type of CAD. Which means, they still have those computer designs and can make another one, barring cost and time. And since Time=Money, LTT can reimburse them for both of those things and they can make another one.

 

My only real issue here is the way Linus ALWAYS responds to these things in a defensive, dismissive way. And it always seems to come off as a bit douchy.

It's not productive and I wish he had a PR coach like Luke who he would talk to first before posting here.

 

The last thing I really don't have an issue with is Linus's personal investment in Framework. I have seen 0 evidence of bias in any of their reviews.

They seem to be reviewing/unboxing etc laptops the same as they have always been. So a big nothing burger there.

 

Thanks for reading if you got all the way through. I'm sure a lot of this will seem to be winding and not structured well, but it's really just flying off the top of my head as I type it.

200 pages of forum and people still post this kind of nonsense.. With "fans" like this LTT is doomed.

[Danman2026]

Just now, Legitsu said:

bullshit she has a history of this non-sense its why she quit because nobody would  tolerate her non-sense 

just another wounded bird routine viaying for there 15m of spotlight amist this shit storm 

 

Daddy Linus is not gonna gift you his Porsche. You can stop sucking him off so hard.

[Cornd0g]

22 minutes ago, Im_a_Rhinoceros said:

Brand new account comes here to shit talk people. Oh no!

How is account age relevant to the legitimacy of what I am saying?  Logic isn't your forte, is it?

[Mrpizzaeater145]

I like LTT and I will never stop. I am not a review site, just one u need a password to gain. LTT will go on and if you do the math of people posting and the amount of users. stats show with the amount of user u are all creating and using.

[JoshuaScholar]

I'm going to get a snack, maybe practice piano and go to bed.

I didn't expect to be ambushed by real drama.

[saintlouisbagels]

Subscriber count means nothing. It's all about the views. And I wouldn't be surprised if they're getting more views.

[Cheerscake]

Just now, perryckd said:

 

no. this is a valuable level headed feed back. you see through the cloud of FUD/hate steve loves to build his base from

 

another reminder, Steve does not hold himself to the same standard when making a mistake 

 

 

That's the unfortunate thing. Beneath the personal and upset language of Steve, there is a degree of validity and truth to his points and it is good that the importance of quality is raised. But when it's packaged the way it was, it results in an inappropriate reaction of the community and the response to the feedback more likely being one of rejection than consideration (though I'm sure LMG takes the core of the points made to heart).

[RotoCoreOne]

1 minute ago, mikaelus said:

This coming from someone defending a guy who started casting aspersions at someone else without evidence, because it fit his narrative? Steve was carried away in the same way Linus was - a bit of evidence made him think he can now pass judgement on everything and everyone with no actual proof anymore. It's quite comical, actually. That's why I don't like any of the Youtubers. Popularity goes to their heads.

Sigh, if you watched the videos he clearly outlines the reasoning and provides evidence from all parties involved. If you stopped fanboying for ltt for a minute and think then maybe you’ll have an actual conclusion. At this point, you can keep batting for ltt on his forums lol maybe but the next “trust me bro” shirt as well

[Mrpizzaeater145]

post should end now. It's over. Information is out. Evidence is good. It's all over and Gunna blow over by next friday. Move on and release a vid. The haters are new accounts from what i can see all over. Now it's just i feel and i wish bullshit.

 

[Sir_Loin_Ofsteak]

I can understand Linus' reaction to a point. He still sees LMG as a scrappy startup he's poured his blood into to make something of it, and feels an attack on the company is an attack on him personally; something that isn't helped by how much he's very much the face of the company still.

 

With that said, LMG is now valued at $100m and is not a scrappy startup anymore. Their opinions pull real weight with people, and they are looking to get into serious testing. You CANNOT become a serious testing house with the kind of mistakes being made, and changing company focus towards that at this point could be a disastrous move.

 

GN's main criticism in the original video is not enough time is being spent; neither in the quality of review testing, nor in overall process management within the company to ensure a debacle like Billet Labs never happens. These are very fair criticisms.

 

If, as Linus claims, LTT is all about the consumer, then be about us. Slow down, take your time and yeah, spend the extra $500 to do it right. If what LTT is actually about is its bottom line, that's a different direction; stay doing entertainment, which you guys are great at. 

 

I find all of this extremely disappointing. I really hope the organisation grows in the end and faces up to its failures, and Linus with it. That response to valid concerns was not good...

[Spotty]

Please hold while I do some mod stuff. (~5 minutes)]

 

Apologies for locking this thread, but the Madison discussion has been split to its separate topic. Took a little longer than expected, and there's still a few more comments here that need to be cleaned up but I wanted to unlock this topic as soon as possible.

Please continue the discussion about Madison here

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Spotty

[LuckyDrive]

Regarding the whole Billet thing...it seems like the logistics and inventory team at LTT is....kinda terrible at their jobs?

 

1. Billet sends waterblock and 3090Ti, 3090Ti goes missing.

2. LTT is forced to shoot a video with a completely different GPU.

3. Billet asks for waterblock back, someone at LTT says they'll send it back, doesnt send it back.

4. Waterblock presumably gets misplaced, and someone mistakenly puts it up for auction.

5. Someone loses auction winner tracking sheet, forcing LTT to reach out auction winners by email.

 

Just seems like a lot of this could have been avoided if 3rd party product inventory were taken more seriously and properly itemized and tracked.

[JoshuaScholar]

Just now, LuckyDrive said:

Regarding the whole Billet thing...it seems like the logistics and inventory team at LTT is....kinda terrible at their jobs?

 

1. Billet sends waterblock and 3090Ti, 3090Ti goes missing.

2. LTT is forced to shoot a video with a completely different GPU.

3. Billet asks for waterblock back, someone at LTT says they'll send it back, doesnt send it back.

4. Waterblock presumably gets misplaced, and someone mistakenly puts it up for auction.

5. Someone loses auction winner tracking sheet, forcing LTT to reach out auction winners by email.

 

Just seems like a lot of this could have been avoided if 3rd party product inventory were taken more seriously and properly itemized and tracked.

If only there was some sort of device which could automate keeping track of things!

[gtaivmostwanted]

1 minute ago, Mrpizzaeater145 said:

any adults left on this forum or is it just kids jumping on something they know nothing about and thinking they are tech people for insults? 

i've sat here for a few hours today id say at least  80% of this thread is the same message reworded there is some great constructive criticism here and there tho

[Kolchak]

6 minutes ago, JoshuaScholar said:

If only there was some sort of device which could automate keeping track of things!

Asset tag?

[dustypaws]

Just now, Kolchak said:

Asset tag?

Sorcery!

[IHAVOKI]

On 8/14/2023 at 5:46 PM, jooroth18 said:

Page 16 of this thread.

I didn't see the notification I wanted to say thank you. @jooroth18

[Anorax]

4 minutes ago, Mrpizzaeater145 said:

any adults left on this forum or is it just kids jumping on something they know nothing about and thinking they are tech people for insults? 

It started off well with some reasoned arguments and commentary but as time progressed the kiddies woke up and have now salted the thread. I was surprised it lasted this long before spoiling.

[Empyreal]

People trying to sidetrack the real issue to shift the attention away from Linus wrongdoings

 

 

[dustypaws]

Just now, Anorax said:

It started off well with some reasoned arguments and commentary but as time progressed the kiddies woke up and have now salted the thread. I was surprised it lasted this long before spoiling.

It's also fueled by LTT playing dead. (did they also stop scheduled uploads? )

 

If there's no official statement (except for the one that started this shitshow) people just start guessing and assuming...