Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[RLP]

Watched the "What do we do now?" video, and yikes was it bad. 

 

I've seen politician videos where the teleprompter was actually in frame sound more sincere. Your entire company failed at reading the room. This wasn't a situation where levity was, in any way, appropriate - much less by injecting it as means to mention for profit things like sponsors or the store. 

 

Sincerity, at its core, is not scripted. 

[WillHeard]

GOOD JOB LMG! This is the kind of response you needed. It's not enough, but its the right start.

[IseeFractals]

2 hours ago, Aiken Drum said:

GN hasn't even argued it. They've flat out stated it.

 

A year ago they explicitly stated that LTT/LMG wasn't getting any free passes going forward just because they have historically been pals.

Skip to 1:11 for the statement.

 

Within that video, linus actually claims that "it's ridiculous for people to think we'd tarnish our reputations over $250"

But now that they are actively tarnishing their own reputations, he justifies their actions by saying "it's not worth spending $200, $300, $500 in someone's worktime...." to retest or record to remedy their mistakes and inaccuracies.  

Every criticism thrown at them is met with "we hear your concerns, but here's why they're not important....to this message, from our sponsor!

 

[stflames01]

It seems Steve is very confident about his timelines in his conversations with Bilet labs and posted their communications in their vid saying things happened as far back as June. LTT also seem to be confident that they tired their best here and has timelines to support it. Maybe they should just post that too with timestamps and shut all this down. Linus always says never attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence and that is very true. It really can be just a coincidence and incompetence sometimes. But when people are coming after you this hard, it is ok to shut them up every once in a while.

[NorKris]

3 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

nothing wrong with that

[1982 Original]

1 minute ago, Vexenar said:

This is my take on the video response as well. 
As we're used by now Linus his initial reply was to deflect blame, take the criticism on the video personally and went as far during the WAN show to say that he did not feel like he had to apologize for not testing the prototype properly. 

Furthermore after Steve's video went live he went full deflection mode and dug his heels in the sand and still kept deflecting the key issues, and after two days of community backlash and other hardware/game channels reporting on it we see some form of apology. 

It's disingenious. 
 

People like to say LTT is a big corporation. Then the whole company shouldn’t lie on one person who isn’t even the current CEO. The newest video from the actual leadership should carry the most weight. At least in my opinion. And yes, Linus’ first response was terrible, horrendous. It’s clear Linus has a massive ego, and he needs other people in the company to respond to emergencies. I’m sure the new CEO realized how much worse Linus made the situation and how much harder it is for him to deal with it. 

[aaradorn]

10 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

At what time did he suggest people to go to the merch store?

[stflames01]

10 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Well, this ended up surprising well, better than I expected for sure.

 

While Linus himself deflected a couple things he did make a good point, and the rest of the team were quick to not only apologize but strive to do better and even Linus strives to do better at least.

 

I was concerned that LMG had grown so large that there was a possibility we wouldn't receive a proper response at all. Glad to see I was completely and utterly wrong on that front, although it is 100% clear that Linus is a completely different person compared to when I first subscribed, probably because of all this wealth and success.

 

Shutting down video production may feel like just a band-aid to some of you guys but to me it shows that LMG actually DOES care about us - the community, and values consumers and providing sound consumer advice over making money or else they wouldn't dare just cold-turkey kill production like that. This will seriously hurt their position in the YouTube algorithm.

 

But I do understand some people's concerts that things may not actually end up changing in the end and to that all I can say is you gotta give them a chance. Dont go assuming things will be the same or worse when they haven't even had a chance yet.

 

Lets face it - we all know what happened here, its not rocket science - LMG spiraled out of control. They grew too large for the vision of one quirky man to keep ahold of, and videos were being pumped out so quickly because LMG felt that they had the power to do so as such a big company, completely unaware of just how bad it was going.

 

How much do you wanna bet right now that the truth behind the Billet Labs block is literally someone was told the wrong thing, the block was sold, and now they are scared they will loose their job if they speak up? How many times have we seen employees at our own jobs f*** up and even though they feel genuinely bad about it, they have no choice but to cover it up as otherwise they could loose their job? I know Ive seen it several times, and I wouldn't rat my co-worker out and risk their livelihood just to be a brown-noser.

 

@LinusTech Look man if there is anything you need to do do right now its this: Firstly stop deflecting, we are fully aware of whats going on so just don't even bother. But most importantly take this time to slow down video production. I know this is an expensive ass company and you need more videos to turn a profit, I get it. But 5 a day is simply way too much, that means ur uploading a new video every 5 hours, thats completely insane and you know it.

 

You already know its the main reason why all of this happened. You guys fell head first into running a big company and took off like an F-15 with full afterburner and you guys ended up eating s***. It should be quite obvious what needs to be done. My suggestion? 3 Videos per day maximum, and slow it to 2 or even sometimes 1 when necessary. It would still net you guys a massive 15-ish videos per week average (if you don't work weekends) which I still think is probably the most for any creator that isn't just filling up their channel with fluff.

 

Theres no way in hell you guys can't profit with 15 videos per week, there is just no way you need more than that.

 

How much do you wanna bet that if LMG simply heeded this above^ advice, that almost every single issue would be almost completely resolved very quickly. What was the LMG staff's #1 complaint in their personal interviews? "I wish we had more time for our projects." I mean, how much clearer do you need it to be? The answer is staring you right in the face so for the sake of LMG as a whole I hope you listen to it.

Perfect response. Sound reasoning. People are too quick to attack because thing LMG became a huge soulless corporation just because they got big. That doesn't have to be the case but its so easy to assume. 

I am one of those people that loved the daily videos and the make me very happy even when I understand barely enough on the server heavy vids. However, I also take full responsibility for that and will also give them the benefit of the doubt to fix things. and that includes if I have to accept that they may need to make less videos for now while they scale up to the level where they can do even more than that.

I will trust them bro

[mMontana]

@stflames01 no one is impeeding you to trust/love them.

but please, don't be a blind fan...

[Vexenar]

3 minutes ago, 1982 Original said:

People like to say LTT is a big corporation. Then the whole company shouldn’t lie on one person who isn’t even the current CEO.

I 100% agree with that sentiment, Linus his initial reaction completely undermined the damage control the new CEO had to do. 

If Linus cannot reply to criticism to his company due to his personal ego, then the best course of action would be for him to refrain to say anything. 
In this situation, it would have helped if they waited another day and let the actual CEO respond to the issues addressed. 

[dragonuck76]

23 minutes ago, Aiken Drum said:

Stop minimizing the problem. He has a significant behavioral problem that is seriously damaging his and his company's reputation, and he is stubbornly refusing to stop doing it, even while everyone around him is clearly trying to fix the damage it's causing.

 

To point this out is not a nitpick, it is valuable advice.

Its not minimizing the problem.  Linus and the rest of been personally attacked by the community with all names under the sun.  That is out of line.  Making fair honest comments with out personel attacks is the right way to do this.  Many on here have, but many others have not and made it personal.  Linus will feel personel about this as will the rest, why because they are human, and they do what they are as they love and ejoy it.  SO when you say Linus being stubborn again, he will still be feeling the pain from these personel attacks.  So yes he may come across and stopped himself, but he did and sorry he is Linus, as he says he wears his heart on his sleeve... its personel... I mean dam it, losing a job, its business but it is very so much personel too...  so I say we all back off the harsh comments and hounding, and let them be and see how they respond in the next few months now

[1982 Original]

2 minutes ago, aaradorn said:

At what time did he suggest people to go to the merch store?

Jeez. Look at all the merch all propped up and on display. There’s at least 6 items out on the counter if you count the shirt. I don’t care if he peddles his stuff one way or not. LTT plugs their store every video. But it’s clearly there as a push to the GN merch store. Steve is not a Good Samaritan doing gods work with this hit piece. He’s running a business and all of this is good for that business. 

[Godiwa]

14 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

silly post... he is using the EXACT same set as always... not like he placed a lot of stuff just to make sales... He could have had YT monitization on that video (and made heaps) just like LMG had on their "we are sorta sorry" video

[aaradorn]

3 minutes ago, 1982 Original said:

Jeez. Look at all the merch all propped up and on display. There’s at least 6 items out on the counter if you count the shirt. I don’t care if he peddles his stuff one way or not. LTT plugs their store every video. But it’s clearly there as a push to the GN merch store. Steve is not a Good Samaritan doing gods work with this hit piece. He’s running a business and all of this is good for that business. 

That's not what I'm asking. It's the same set he always uses, at no point does he tell people to go to the merch store, claiming he did say that is misinformation.

[1982 Original]

2 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

silly post... he is using the EXACT same set as always... not like he placed a lot of stuff just to make sales... He could have had YT monitization on that video (and made heaps) just like LMG had on their "we are sorta sorry" video

Everything IS there to make sales. He only didn’t monetize to add credibility. He 100% did well off the video with views and added subs. 

[dustypaws]

18 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

yeah man....you see...he changed something for the better. What did you do in the meantime?

[Shlouski]

[Qyygle]

Just now, Vexenar said:

Personally feel it should be kept in to give transparancy on what Linus his actual thoughts on the matter were/are. 

He's basically recanted it because of the community backlash. 

I think it's very understandable to first react to any criticisim exactly as Linus's original post. Especially coming in cold like GN's video had. Who wants to walk into work and have a surprise performance review where you get crushed for 40 minutes straight?

 

But it should be clear this needed to be done. LTT's a huge organization now, with enough disparate groups that SOP and basic QC seriously need overhaul. I see a lot of people attacking GN for being 'mercenary/guerilla' or taking a hit out on LTT because of Labs threatening his work. That's frankly ridiculous and avoiding the very real issues Steve brought. 

To put this in perspective, if GN or other reviewers have to constantly tip-toe around reviews with wildly conflicting or erroneous data time and time again, this conversation would have had to happen regardless, and at that point down the road, it might not've only been Steve coming with receipts. 

 

I hope Linus eventually realizes what Steve did was a professional curtesy, not a personal attack, and make amends. Buffing out dents sometimes needs a few hammer taps. I'll probably still watch both channels regardless, but it'd be a shame to see a divide in the tech community because of this.

[Skipple]

Why was the Madison topic removed? 

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526538-madison-reveals-experiences-working-at-lmg/

 

Nevermind, it's back. Assuming it was a mistake.

[Cpt. Ben]

Did they just delete the Madison thread that they branched out from this one? I can't find it and now https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526538-madison-reveals-experiences-working-at-lmg/ returns "We could not find that topic."

 

Edit: now it's back. Confusing.

[Guest]

Just now, ZoliBen said:

Did they just delete the Madison thread that they branched out from this one? I can't find it and now https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526538-madison-reveals-experiences-working-at-lmg/ returns "We could not find that topic."

it gone

 

im surprised it made 6 or so pages, as it always had legal issues written all over it

[digitalscream]

3 minutes ago, ZoliBen said:

Did they just delete the Madison thread that they branched out from this one? I can't find it and now https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526538-madison-reveals-experiences-working-at-lmg/ returns "We could not find that topic."

Yep, it's gone.

 

That's gonna leave a mark. Unless there's a damn good explanation for it which doesn't just involve "It was making us look bad", that's me done with LMG for good, because it puts the lie to everything they've said about transparency in the apology video.

 

EDIT: OK, they brought it back. They've been promoted to "probation"...

[linkboy]

Just now, ZoliBen said:

Did they just delete the Madison thread that they branched out from this one? I can't find it and now https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526538-madison-reveals-experiences-working-at-lmg/ returns "We could not find that topic."

 

Yes, they did. 

 

Really not a good look.

[IseeFractals]

2 hours ago, Kravatie1 said:

just some comments i saw on facebook

 

"I'd like to know who decided that Steve was the tech community police? Other than Steve himself. Who likes to remind us in every video that it's his "job". The Billet Labs incident is unfortunate. But I'm not leaving because of that. I think it was a misunderstanding. Which Linus said. Why are people so quick to believe Steve and not Linus? Steve said this is what the Billet Labs guys said. And how do we know that for sure? See the problem here guys? Steve isn't perfect, despite what he says and his fanbase says. Steve is pretentious. He thinks every channel needs to have the same standards as him. And now that he's decided to do hit pieces on other channels, he better be careful where he casts his stones. Steve also lives in a glass house."

 

"While he's not lying, or wrong, it is a bit of a conflict of interest for Steve, considering LTT is his direct competition, and his attacks started right after the announcement of the lab. People should both hold Linus accountable, and question Steve's motivations. It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive."

"I disagree. He's not the only one to talk about it. There are plenty of other videos talking about Linus in the past and after this. Just look around a little. Hell, I saw at least 5 reactions to Steve's video from tech channels just today. Which are obviously people trying to hitch a ride on the drama train. Typical YouTube stuff.
And Steve is absolutely telling Linus how to do things. Did you watch the video? He demanded one of his videos be taken down. That's directly telling him how to do things. He's also telling him how to do things by demanding Linus' content and testing lives up to his standards. He's saying Linus has a responsibility to do so. Which is 100% telling Linus how to do things. I don't blame Linus one bit for being pissed. Linus could have been more tactful in his response though. His anger shown through and it doesn't look good on him.

We can agree to disagree. There are multiple ways to look at things. I have my fair share of complaints about Linus. And I don't mind getting into that. I'm simply just saying that if Steve is a journalist as he claims, he's now doing hit pieces. And he would be wise to navigate carefully. If you're not careful you may end up dying on that hill alone. I believe Steve takes this way more seriously than 95% of the public."

What misunderstanding? In the original review video Linus stated that the block was their "one of one" prototype, lent to them for testing in a video and would be returned. 

He's been doing this a long time, he knows exactly why they sought him out, and he proceeded to let his assumptions dictate his actions to the detriment of any semblance of accuracy or fairness. 

He's presenting himself as "consumer" focused, but every single time his actions betray that claim, he responds with excuses, justifications and deflections that are predicated on the assumption that everyone's most important consideration should be Linus. 

He isn't some independent rinky dink youtuber with 15 employees, he's a $100 million corporation, with over 100 employees and 15 million subscribers. He's making video's talking about all the investment in lab quality equipment, and sure it could just be an excited nerd showing off his new toys, but it also gives the impression that their results, and their opinions are always to be trusted above all else. 

Whether it's intentional or not is besides the point. It's about the reasonable expectation that it could be taken that way, and once informed you don't get to argue against it and play the victim and still claim you're being ethical. 

Being consumer focused, means calling out the bad just as you acknowledge the good without being afraid of appearances, relationships or responses. 

  That's what GN does, that's why people watch their content. That's why it's his job, it's what he's built his reputation on.

[dustypaws]

Just now, Skipple said:

Why was the Madison topic removed? 

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526538-madison-reveals-experiences-working-at-lmg/

Because it's apparently a legal issue that is not being dealt with in public