Apple suspended production of M2 Chips due to falling demand for Macs

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

Uh huh, and a a microprocessor alone, is a paper weight. People like to turn them into keychains, but by your logic this CPU alone is still a PC.

It's not by my logic, it's literally everyone other than you it seems.

 

Quote

A personal computer (PC) is a multi-purpose microcomputer whose size, capabilities, and price make it feasible for individual use.

 

 

P.S. Apple doesn't market themselves using the term PC because they just don't want to or need to. It's utterly unnecessary.

[leadeater]

A penguin is a bird, a flightless bird.

 

It is generally understood that birds fly and is a common person understanding of what a bird is.

 

A penguin is a bird, a flightless bird.

 

If a penguin is a bird then is it appropriate to change the definition of all birds to match the traits of a penguin?

[Kisai]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Official MSRP of the SteamDeck Dock is $89.99

So...? Is the reading comprehension of the thread so lacking that they think any dock turns the Steamdeck into a desktop PC?

 

Did you even look at the dock's page?

Hmm, seems that it there is something questionable about that dock if it can't actually drive displays. It's been a year? Still broken?

 

Reviewers say, it's an overpriced USB-C dongle and to spend money on something more capable. 

 

At any rate, this isn't about "the dock" it's about the fact you even need a dock to bring it anywhere near a "PC" experience. 

 

As I keep saying, the out-of-the-box experience determines what the thing is. If it does not come with a dock, then it's not intended to be used as a replacement for a Desktop PC, and if it doesn't come with a dock, it's also not intended to be played, as a toy, on anything, including a television. The Nintendo Switch, came with a dock, because the launch model was intended to be played in both a docked and undocked way. The Steamdeck is not intended to be played in a docked way, and even then, 75% of the software on Steam doesn't even work on it.

 

It's presented as a device that runs your existing steam library, but only if you stick to certain older titles. That's the opposite of the Nintendo Switch, where the Switch only runs new games, but you can't use it as a word processor.

 

As I keep saying, the steamdeck is not a PC, and people trying to turn it into a poor-man's PC are completely out of touch with reality. There are better things that ARE PC's, there are even worse things that ARE PC's that give you a better PC experience. You could pull a 10 year old desktop PC out of the attic and have a better PC experience than the Steamdeck as long as you have a USB game controller. There is nothing about the Steamdeck that makes it "better" than anything that exists.

 

And y'all keep ignoring that.

 

If you keep insisting it's a PC, then I want to know how many brooklyn bridges you bought in the last decade.

 

 

[leadeater]

9 minutes ago, Kisai said:

So...? Is the reading comprehension of the thread so lacking that they think any dock turns the Steamdeck into a desktop PC?

You made the statement it was $300 correct? And was pointed out to you that you should fact check what you said. I have facilitated the fact checking for you, it is $89.99 for the official Dock. Official dock not being the only dock option, options of lower and higher exist.

 

9 minutes ago, Kisai said:

As I keep saying, the out-of-the-box experience determines what the thing is

Nobody cares, except you. Trust me when I say nobody is going to agree with what you are trying to say, it's not going to happen.

 

There are ways to say what you want that people will agree with, arguing over what "a PC is" is not that way. There are valid usability concerns and drawbacks to the SteamDeck as a PC, you have mentioned some, I have and others. Like I said before no device is perfect for every situation and usage.

[starsmine]

34 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Maybe you should. Last I checked the dock didn't come with the steamdeck.

 

 

Oh good god, You dont need the steam deck to make it a PC. even by your definition. The dock is just that, a DOCK. Is a tablet windows PC not a windows PC unless you attach it to a dock? No. 

Dude out here telling me this aint a PC

https://www.xenarcdirect.com/RT86-PRO.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw__ihBhADEiwAXEazJnM1TFd0Zr4ECvTbpBa1qKftA1FkQHbeiXhHVQZnQGvv2SvKawKRIRoCV8QQAvD_BwE
Get out of here.

Never in my LIFE have I heard someone define what a PC is by the method of inputting characters. Keyboards are just a convenient way to do it.

[Kisai]

Just now, leadeater said:

You made the statement it was $300 correct? And was pointed out to you that you should fact check what you said. I have facilitated the fact checking for you, it is $89.99 for the official Dock. Official dock not being the only dock option, options of lower and higher exist.

 

These are laptop docking stations that let you make your expensive engineering laptop or gamer laptop into a "Desktop"

 

 

Notice it goes from a $30 glorified USB hub to a $150 refurbished Dell laptop dock? The price of the dock is immaterial. The features matter, and since we're just on a forum and not actually reviewing this stuff for how well it works, we'll just have to assume based on experience. I know the Dell docks work as docks for everything with USB-C. I don't know if those $35 docks offer the same experience, and I can assure you they likely do not, because cheap docks tend to only support driving one monitor, because they lack the necessary hardware bandwidth.

 

 

Just now, leadeater said:

Nobody cares, except you.

Yet you are still posting to the thread, so either you care, or are just clowning like everyone else.

 

 

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Yet you are still posting to the thread, so either you care, or are just clowning like everyone else.

No, you misunderstand. I don't care about your opinion about what a PC is.

 

I do care that you are making false claims about what a company has or has not said about their own product. I do care about misinformation, there are a lot of things I care about. Your opinion about what is a PC is not one of them. Since I care about the other things I may as well address that point too since you are literally arguing that "all birds are flightless aquatic animals."

[Kisai]

7 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Oh good god, You dont need the steam deck to make it a PC. even by your definition. The dock is just that, a DOCK. Is a tablet windows PC not a windows PC unless you attach it to a dock? No. 

And what do Surface tablets come with?

 

Yep, A keyboard. Because Microsoft touts them as PC's.

 

 

7 minutes ago, starsmine said:

 

Dude out here telling me this aint a PC

https://www.xenarcdirect.com/RT86-PRO.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw__ihBhADEiwAXEazJnM1TFd0Zr4ECvTbpBa1qKftA1FkQHbeiXhHVQZnQGvv2SvKawKRIRoCV8QQAvD_BwE
Get out of here.

That is marketed as a tablet kiddo. A special purpose one to boot. That's not a mass-market item intended for everyone. As such it's proprietary. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Never in my LIFE have I heard someone define what a PC is by the method of inputting characters. Keyboards are just a convenient way to do it.

Then you must have lived in a cardboard box under a bridge, because every piece of marketing for a PC since the 80's shows desktop PC's with keyboards, and laptops with keyboards. When it doesn't have a keyboard, it's always some of toy, or special purpose computer (eg assistive technology.) 

 

Rule number one in marketing is focus on what your product actually does well. Who cares if some nerd on the internet uses your cheap toy for something they found cool. 

 

The Steamdeck, does not play all Windows games, it plays about 25-35% of them (243 out of 768 in my case) If I want 100% game support, it would need to run Windows, like a PC. 

 

And before anyone else decides to jump in the thread. Don't. This is not a debate. The entire focus has been how people claim things because they're so married to the philosophy behind something.

 

You can believe a Steamdeck is a PC, but that just tells me you think anything with a chip in it deserves to be equal to a desktop PC. That's not how things are ever marketed or used as. The Steamdeck is no more deserving of being called a PC than a smartphone, smartTV or Tablet, and everyone that keeps ignoring that, ignored the launching off point, that Linux users tend to be wishful thinkers, hoping for the day that Linux dethrones Windows as the OS everyone uses. A thing that will NEVER happen because of stuff like this.

 

[starsmine]

14 minutes ago, Kisai said:

And what do Surface tablets come with?

 

Yep, A keyboard. Because Microsoft touts them as PC's.

 

 

That is marketed as a tablet kiddo. A special purpose one to boot. That's not a mass-market item intended for everyone. As such it's proprietary. 

 

 

Then you must have lived in a cardboard box under a bridge, because every piece of marketing for a PC since the 80's shows desktop PC's with keyboards, and laptops with keyboards. When it doesn't have a keyboard, it's always some of toy, or special purpose computer (eg assistive technology.) 

 

Rule number one in marketing is focus on what your product actually does well. Who cares if some nerd on the internet uses your cheap toy for something they found cool. 

 

The Steamdeck, does not play all Windows games, it plays about 25-35% of them (243 out of 768 in my case) If I want 100% game support, it would need to run Windows, like a PC. 

 

And before anyone else decides to jump in the thread. Don't. This is not a debate. The entire focus has been how people claim things because they're so married to the philosophy behind something.

 

You can believe a Steamdeck is a PC, but that just tells me you think anything with a chip in it deserves to be equal to a desktop PC. That's not how things are ever marketed or used as. The Steamdeck is no more deserving of being called a PC than a smartphone, smartTV or Tablet, and everyone that keeps ignoring that, ignored the launching off point, that Linux users tend to be wishful thinkers, hoping for the day that Linux dethrones Windows as the OS everyone uses. A thing that will NEVER happen because of stuff like this.

 

 

MOST WINDOWS cant cant play ALL WINDOWS GAMES. Like Have you TRIED getting windows 98 targeted hybrid 16/32bit executable with 16bit installers to run?

Have you Tried to run The Last of Us on a GPU with sub 4GB of vram. 

 

Windows can not even run DOS programs for the most part, we EMULATE DOS with DOSBOX

Sure many you can get working. Please go casually get Nightmare Ned to work on a recent Windows PC

Saying a linux PC is a PC is Not saying Linux in the near future will take the market from Windows PCs. Thats an unhinged take, just as unhinged as saying linux PCs are not PCs

[leadeater]

50 minutes ago, Kisai said:

That is marketed as a tablet kiddo.

You are aware that as a curtesy I am choosing to look away at things like this as well as you, and others calling each other clowns. I do this only because I know those involved aren't actually going to take offense to it. However this curtsey of not reporting such posts is not going to last beyond this post. Spirited debate is one thing, consistent problematic rhetoric and name calling is not this.

 

You may also find this conversation chain itself deemed necessary to remove entirely in such instance as it's quite well off topic at this point. That is also probably a decent enough hint that since you nor others are going to agree about this that further attempts simply will not be constructive either.

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

You can believe a Steamdeck is a PC, but that just tells me you think anything with a chip in it deserves to be equal to a desktop PC. That's not how things are ever marketed or used as. The Steamdeck is no more deserving of being called a PC than a smartphone, smartTV or Tablet, and everyone that keeps ignoring that, ignored the launching off point, that Linux users tend to be wishful thinkers, hoping for the day that Linux dethrones Windows as the OS everyone uses. A thing that will NEVER happen because of stuff like this.

 

No one is arguing or has argued that all PC's are "equal",  we all know that a PDA is not going to be a piss in the ocean compared to a properly designed laptop and we all know even that will be nothing next to a finely honed workstation.  But that doesn't change the fact that they are all PC's, each have their advantages and disadvantages but are PC's in their own right.

 

 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

On 4/4/2023 at 1:08 AM, DuckDodgers said:

 

 

Quotes

 

The sluggish sales of Apple's MacBook have already been predicted. Apple's Mac PC business revenue in the first quarter was $7.7 billion. This is a 30% decrease compared to the same period last year.

 

Source: https://wccftech.com/m2-chip-production-stopped/

They need to start offering 16gb/512gb base model Macbook Air's before I consider upgrading my M1 Air

[Lightwreather]

7 hours ago, Kisai said:

Yep, A keyboard. Because Microsoft touts them as PC's.

 

I mean you could check. out the configurator no?

let me zoom in a bit

It's 899 for the base model without the keyboard…

 

 

[HenrySalayne]

We have a strong case of tech illiteracy. Let me help you:

8 hours ago, Kisai said:

So...? Is the reading comprehension of the thread so lacking that they think any dock turns the Steamdeck into a desktop PC?

 

Did you even look at the dock's page?

Hmm, seems that it there is something questionable about that dock if it can't actually drive displays. It's been a year? Still broken?

You clearly don't understand what is not (yet) working. The dock itself is a MST splitter and it splits the single DP from the Streamdeck into the HDMI and the DP port. You can use both ports with one display each (so a total of two displays). But the DP port on the dock does not support MST (yet) so you can't use two displays connected via the sole DP port on the dock.

DP daisychain or DP splitting is very rare, but if it's a necessary feature for your setup, you can buy another dock that supports it.

8 hours ago, Kisai said:

These are laptop docking stations that let you make your expensive engineering laptop or gamer laptop into a "Desktop"

 

Notice it goes from a $30 glorified USB hub to a $150 refurbished Dell laptop dock? The price of the dock is immaterial. The features matter, and since we're just on a forum and not actually reviewing this stuff for how well it works, we'll just have to assume based on experience. I know the Dell docks work as docks for everything with USB-C. I don't know if those $35 docks offer the same experience, and I can assure you they likely do not, because cheap docks tend to only support driving one monitor, because they lack the necessary hardware bandwidth.

Both of the docking stations in the first picture are a waste of money. The Surface docking station uses a proprietary connector so you can't even use it, the Dell docking station will work but only in a limited fashion because it uses Thunderbolt, something the Steamdeck doesn't support.

Thunderbolt docks need special chipsets (mainly from Intel), way complexer signal routing and have more features than "simple" USC C docks using the DP alt mode. So they will be considerably more expensive but they won't give you any benefit without a Thunderbolt port on your device.

 

I hope that cleared it up for you.

[Kid.Lazer]

Am I stupid, or just falling for the troll of the century? The screenshot you posted about it not being a PC clearly states it is a PC. I mean, you literally proved the opposite of the point you're trying to make.

9 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

[suicidalfranco]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:32 AM, Kisai said:

 

These are laptop docking stations that let you make your expensive engineering laptop or gamer laptop into a "Desktop"

 

 

Notice it goes from a $30 glorified USB hub to a $150 refurbished Dell laptop dock? The price of the dock is immaterial. The features matter, and since we're just on a forum and not actually reviewing this stuff for how well it works, we'll just have to assume based on experience. I know the Dell docks work as docks for everything with USB-C. I don't know if those $35 docks offer the same experience, and I can assure you they likely do not, because cheap docks tend to only support driving one monitor, because they lack the necessary hardware bandwidth.

 

 

Yet you are still posting to the thread, so either you care, or are just clowning like everyone else.

 

 

riiiiiight

300 THUDERBOLT dock targeted at enterprise customers costs too much. 

coming up next water is wet, stay tuned for more

 

 

ARSM USB C Hub HDMI 4k 60Hz, Adapter to HDMI, Dual USB, PD Charge, Type Data Port,SD/TF Card Reader for MacBook Pro/MacBook Air/iPad Pro/Samsung Galaxy S9 S10/Dell XPS/ChromeBook/HP Laptop, Grey: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

 

Spoiler

21 ZELDA RUPIES

 

And also I guess in Kisai's woolly world these don't count as a PCs

 

TUXEDO Computers

 

System76 - Linux Laptops, Desktops, and Servers

 

XPS 13 Plus Laptop : Dell XPS Laptop Computers | Dell USA

 

 

[wseaton]

On 4/9/2023 at 5:36 PM, Donut417 said:

I personally like MacOS better than Windows. Also, if Apple stopped making computers Microsoft would be in trouble. A little law called the Sherman Anti Trust act. Apple computers are the only thing stopping Microsoft from being declared a monopoly. 

No, Microsoft would not be in trouble because Microsoft doesn't build a lot of PCs, and more importantly, Monopolies aren't illegal unless they are harming their industry. 

 

A bunch of whiny Linux geeks needing attention doesn't qualify for #2. They've been distorting the monopoly myth for decades.

 

Next, smart phones are mostly iOS and Android based. How many Windows based phones are in use compared to competitors, and how many desktop PCs are made by Microsoft?

 

Apple should just punt and start making hardware for the PC market. People typically buy Mac portables because the PC portable landscape has always kinda sucked. Thats not enough to keep consumers interested. 

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, wseaton said:

Monopolies aren't illegal unless they are harming their industry. 

Except the DOJ already took issue with Microsoft in the past. Which is why Microsoft gave Apple a loan when Jobs came back to ensure they didnt go under. This way they always had a "Hey, look here's our competitor". 

[mr moose]

On 4/21/2023 at 12:26 PM, Donut417 said:

Except the DOJ already took issue with Microsoft in the past. Which is why Microsoft gave Apple a loan when Jobs came back to ensure they didnt go under. This way they always had a "Hey, look here's our competitor". 

Is there some article/citation for this,  my understanding was that BG just likes investing in everything and having his hand in more pies.  I mean, if MS bought shares in apple (their only real OS competitor) then wouldn't that make the monopoly worse?

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Is there some article/citation for this,  my understanding was that BG just likes investing in everything and having his hand in more pies.  I mean, if MS bought shares in apple (their only real OS competitor) then wouldn't that make the monopoly worse?

They didn’t buy shares. It was a loan there’s a difference. 

[mr moose]

21 hours ago, Donut417 said:

They didn’t buy shares. It was a loan there’s a difference. 

All the articles I've read said it was an investment where they got preferred non voting stock.

[stuckonthis]

On 4/16/2023 at 10:17 PM, Lightwreather JfromN said:

Just about this line… you're a bit over 3 years late. Most of their products line is now running Apple Silicon (an ARM based chip compared to Intel/AMDs AMD64/x86_64 (really don't want to get into that argument) chips) with the sole exception being the Mac Pro

so the mac pro is not using an apple mac processor......I rest my case.

[stuckonthis]

On 4/16/2023 at 8:07 PM, IkeaGnome said:

That's a very narrow minded way to view things though.

Something to keep in mind is cost. An entry level Android phone is much more affordable in MUCH of the world than in the US. There are more IOS than Android phones here in the states and a lot of the other "1st world developed" countries. Start looking out side of them and Apple phones are just cost prohibitive. What's best for you is not what's best for everyone.

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/#monthly-201401-202303

it's not a narrow minded view at all, experience trumps knowledge, maybe when you get to the high end of android technology things may start to improve but apple phones win all the time and android phones are ugly and full of bloatware.

[Commodus]

A follow-up on the core topic:

 

Apple's earnings indicate that Mac revenue was down 31 percent. That's still rough, but it's in line with the industry and better than those estimates of a 40 percent shipment drop (provided revenue tracks somewhat in line with shipments).

 

The interesting tidbit: Apple had its highest-ever smartphone market share last quarter. It typically suffers in Q1 as it's both the post-holiday dip and Samsung is just rolling out its latest Galaxy S line. But Apple's iPhone shipments didn't dip as much as usual, while Samsung still saw its numbers drop despite launching the S23.

[HenrySalayne]

20 hours ago, Commodus said:

A follow-up on the core topic:

 

Apple's earnings indicate that Mac revenue was down 31 percent. That's still rough, but it's in line with the industry and better than those estimates of a 40 percent shipment drop (provided revenue tracks somewhat in line with shipments).

Apple increased the prices for Macs in Europe by roughly 10% since the M2 launch. The plus of 15% on the Euro-USD exchange rate since September 2022 turned the price jump into free margin, offsetting the hit on revenue a little bit.  The actual number of units sold would be an interesting metric.