Apple suspended production of M2 Chips due to falling demand for Macs

[HenrySalayne]

8 hours ago, Kisai said:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/options-for-using-windows-11-with-mac-computers-with-apple-m1-and-m2-chips-cd15fd62-9b34-4b78-b0bc-121baa3c568c

You just played yourself.

You can stream Windows to a PS5 or a smart TV.

You can run Windows in a virtual machine on a server. A server is the opposite of a PC.

If this makes the Mac Mini a "PC" all of the above is also a PC.

 

8 hours ago, Kisai said:

A Macmini is a PC because you use it exactly like a PC out of the box. You plug in a monitor, it does not come with a screen. You plug in a keyboard and mouse of your choice. A MacBook Air/Pro you merely need to plug power in. A desktop Windows 11 PC you plug in a Monitor, Keyboard and Mouse. Those ports actually exist on the device.

 

You can not do that with a Steamdeck, Smartphone or a SmartTV. You need a docking station that supports the device, and in most cases that means you need a $300 docking station that actually supports multiplexing everything over that USB-C port, not a $80 USB hub that just lets you plug in additional USB devices, and in the case of the smartphone and steamdeck, you need a USB hub that also provides Power Delivery, so you can't just use the cheapest hub either.

 

Do you see where I'm going here? Those devices are toys, because you are only intended to do the thing it was sold as. If you want to use it as some other purpose, you are going to spend a lot more money to bring it up to any level of function. If you want a PC, you do not buy a SteamDeck or a smartphone and plug in a keyboard+mouse. You can't, the devices won't be powered if you monopolize the USB-C port with something that isn't an actual docking station.

I see where you going. A Raspberry Pi is a PC but a Microsoft Surface tablet is not a PC.

[Brooksie359]

3 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

You just played yourself.

You can stream Windows to a PS5 or a smart TV.

You can run Windows in a virtual machine on a server. A server is the opposite of a PC.

If this makes the Mac Mini a "PC" all of the above is also a PC.

 

I see where you going. A Raspberry Pi is a PC but a Microsoft Surface tablet is not a PC.

Tbh a pc is such an old term that I feel like people forgot what the original intention of the word was. It's just a personal computer and I would say a phone a tablet and many other devices would fall under the definition of pc even though most people wouldn't use the word to describe those devices. It use to be that most computers were servers that served multiple people because one person using on computer was to cost prohibitive. It wasn't until later when you could actually fit a computer in a room reasonably that it made it possible to have one computer for one person's personal use rather than a computer/server serving multiple people. Fundamentally PC is just a computer that is meant for one person's personal use or one person at a time. It has very little to due with the operating system that is used or the form factor of the computer. 

[mr moose]

15 hours ago, Kisai said:

Okay, then, please go install Windows 11 on a Playstation 5 or a Samsung SmartTV to use it as a "PC" to use Microsoft Excel on.

 

Go on, I'm waiting.

Wow, someone really doesn't understand.

 

[stuckonthis]

On 4/9/2023 at 10:36 PM, Donut417 said:

I personally like MacOS better than Windows. Also, if Apple stopped making computers Microsoft would be in trouble. A little law called the Sherman Anti Trust act. Apple computers are the only thing stopping Microsoft from being declared a monopoly. 

Are you a fully blown troll? either way you made comedy gold even though that does not make any sense,  apple even use pc processors in their macs.  I like apple and I think they should kill android but they should stay in their territory.

[Donut417]

48 minutes ago, stuckonthis said:

Are you a fully blown troll?

Not at all. I had bad experiences with Windows 10 on my Ivy bridge system. As a result when I got my stimulus checks from the US government I used one to buy a MacBook Pro. I discovered I liked MacOS better than Windows. Actually it's the machine Im using to type this out. 

 

As far as the monopoly thing. Microsoft gave Apple a loan in the past because the DOJ was trying to go after Microsoft for being a monopoly. Which is why Microsoft needs Apple to exist. Because more and more you are seeing both the FTC and DOJ question if big tech has gotten too big. 

 

To be clear, while I do enjoy MacOS, I still use Windows for gaming and I run a Ubuntu system for Plex. Each OS has its ups and downs. I just find MacOS is enjoyable for every day use and Windows 10 at least on my current system runs good and stable. I do have concerns with the direction Microsoft could be taking Windows however. 

 

52 minutes ago, stuckonthis said:

I like apple and I think they should kill android but they should stay in their territory.

Thats a bad attitude to have. Competition is what makes innovation happen. The only reason I went to an iPhone in the first place was because at the time Android devices didnt have a good long term support option. I hate having to upgrade my phone, it's too much of a pain in the ass. That being said, Android does have good qualities. Especially if your one who likes to tinker. Android offers more freedom when it comes to customization not to mention if you like to flash roms on to your devices. 

[stuckonthis]

3 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Not at all. I had bad experiences with Windows 10 on my Ivy bridge system. As a result when I got my stimulus checks from the US government I used one to buy a MacBook Pro. I discovered I liked MacOS better than Windows. Actually it's the machine Im using to type this out. 

 

As far as the monopoly thing. Microsoft gave Apple a loan in the past because the DOJ was trying to go after Microsoft for being a monopoly. Which is why Microsoft needs Apple to exist. Because more and more you are seeing both the FTC and DOJ question if big tech has gotten too big. 

 

To be clear, while I do enjoy MacOS, I still use Windows for gaming and I run a Ubuntu system for Plex. Each OS has its ups and downs. I just find MacOS is enjoyable for every day use and Windows 10 at least on my current system runs good and stable. I do have concerns with the direction Microsoft could be taking Windows however. 

 

Thats a bad attitude to have. Competition is what makes innovation happen. The only reason I went to an iPhone in the first place was because at the time Android devices didnt have a good long term support option. I hate having to upgrade my phone, it's too much of a pain in the ass. That being said, Android does have good qualities. Especially if your one who likes to tinker. Android offers more freedom when it comes to customization not to mention if you like to flash roms on to your devices. 

Well bad experiences with android will create negative attitudes and I have had 3 bad experiences with android so I hope they do die but it is hardly likely as they are too generic.  Why tinker when you have a taker? just because something offers more does not mean it is better.  

[IkeaGnome]

3 minutes ago, stuckonthis said:

Well bad experiences with android will create negative attitudes and I have had 3 bad experiences with android so I hope they do die but it is hardly likely as they are too generic.  Why tinker when you have a taker? just because something offers more does not mean it is better.  

That's a very narrow minded way to view things though.

Something to keep in mind is cost. An entry level Android phone is much more affordable in MUCH of the world than in the US. There are more IOS than Android phones here in the states and a lot of the other "1st world developed" countries. Start looking out side of them and Apple phones are just cost prohibitive. What's best for you is not what's best for everyone.

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/#monthly-201401-202303

[Kisai]

19 hours ago, leadeater said:

No you started the whataboutism not me. Whatever you are doing or were doing stop trying to define what a "PC" is because you just keep wild swinging and missing. All the problems you try and come up with XYZ device do not make them "Not a PC".

 

I made a joke, you jumped off the cliff. Don't try and claim I pushed you.

No, you made the Joke, and I was like "here's a photo of the joke in process"

The lack of self-awareness is everyone in this thread who didn't read what I was responding to (YOU) making a joke.

 

People like to pop out and try to defend that "we already have a desktop linux uwu, it's the (fad device nobody actually uses as a PC)" 

 

And then when a deficiency is pointed out "oh, well you could fix it yourself" / "oh you're using it wrong"

 

See how many times someone contorted themselves into trying to say the steamdeck is a PC, when 

- It's not marketed as a PC, it's marketed as a toy.

- It's hardware is clearly deficient to use as a laptop, never mind a desktop

- It does not come with Windows, and it's convoluted to put Windows on it, JUST LIKE INSTALLING LINUX ALWAYS IS.

 

It shares more in common with a Toy with proprietary controls, like a smartphone or SmartTV than it does with a desktop or a laptop. This entire thread is a crash course in "the internet was a mistake"

Does it matter to anyone who matters if your opinion about something is different from someone else? We're not debating using the Steamdeck as a computer module on spacecraft. Why does it matter this much to some of you to keep insisting the Steamdeck is a something it's neither marketed as, or anyone is really going to use it for? Other than the 3 people or so who will go "woo hoo, watch me plug in a dGPU via this overly convoluted mechanism at the expense of ever being able to use it as a portable gaming machine ever again" who will insist it's a PC because they spent a PC's worth of money into making a Toy into not-quite-a-toy because they felt they had something to prove. 

 

People built compute clusters out of PS3's, they didn't occasionally take them back out to play games. I'm sorry if the idea that using Windows on a Steamdeck doesn't turn it magically into a $5000 desktop PC, all you're doing is turning a $500 toy into a $500 brag to a bunch of people who don't actually care.

 

 

[Lightwreather]

3 hours ago, stuckonthis said:

apple even use pc processors in their macs.

Just about this line… you're a bit over 3 years late. Most of their products line is now running Apple Silicon (an ARM based chip compared to Intel/AMDs AMD64/x86_64 (really don't want to get into that argument) chips) with the sole exception being the Mac Pro

[Arika]

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

- It's not marketed as a PC, it's marketed as a toy

It is marketed as a pc, you've been provided screenshots of proof, for some reason you're choosing to just ignore them.

 

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

- It's hardware is clearly deficient to use as a laptop, never mind a desktop

Laptops and oem desktops exist that are weaker than the steam deck soc.

 

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

- It does not come with Windows,

Windows does not a PC make...

The only reason I could think that you're going down this route is because you drank the apple coolaid of "I'm a mac" "I'm a pc".

 

I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to argue against the steamdeck being called a pc. What do you lose if it is defined as a pc?

[WolframaticAlpha]

Spoiler

me watching the entire thread barrel off course wildly:

 

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

Does it matter to anyone who matters if your opinion about something is different from someone else? We're not debating using the Steamdeck as a computer module on spacecraft. Why does it matter this much to some of you to keep insisting the Steamdeck is a something it's neither marketed as, or anyone is really going to use it for? Other than the 3 people or so who will go "woo hoo, watch me plug in a dGPU via this overly convoluted mechanism at the expense of ever being able to use it as a portable gaming machine ever again" who will insist it's a PC because they spent a PC's worth of money into making a Toy into not-quite-a-toy because they felt they had something to prove. 

jfc, It is not a fucking toy if you can run normal pc things on it. It works like a PC ootb. It just happens to not run windows OOTB and have a form factor different to that of a PC. You don't need a fucking dGPU to use it as a PC. I have time and time again shown you proof where Valve, who made the thing says IT IS A PC. You talk a big game about how devices are positioned by manufacturers, and the manufacturer says it is a damn PC.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, Kisai said:

Why does it matter this much to some of you to keep insisting the Steamdeck is a something it's neither marketed as,

Far as I am seeing you are pretty much the only one here arguing so much and so often about your point of view on it. You can have your opinion of what the SteamDeck is useful for and the type of user experiences that would be actually enjoyable on the device but that is entirely separate from "is it a PC". It most certainly is a PC but like every PC ever in the past and in to the future it's not going to be good or suitable for everything. My desktop makes for a poor portable touch screen tablet, a desktop and a tablet are both PCs and their deficiencies don't negate their "PC'ness".

 

So I guess I'm asking the same question, why does it matter so much to you?

 

I have a laptop dock on my desk at work that has network, keyboard & mouse, two monitors and that is how I actually connect and use my laptop at work on my desk. How is using the SteamDeck in the same way any different, this has nothing to do with plugging in dGPUs (SteamDeck has an awesome GPU in the SoC) or any other hardware since I don't open my laptop to do any of that either even though I can and could with the SteamDeck also. I could sit down at a desk with a SteamDeck running Windows or Linux and be able to carry out every possible work activity I need to do without a single issue at all.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

I have time and time again shown you proof where Valve, who made the thing says IT IS A PC. You talk a big game about how devices are positioned by manufacturers, and the manufacturer says it is a damn PC.

 

 

 

 

Checkmate? Although I'm going to guess you have already posted these at some point and instead of conceding the game of Chess change to playing Checkers with the pieces instead.

[HenrySalayne]

8 hours ago, Kisai said:

Does it matter to anyone who matters if your opinion about something is different from someone else? We're not debating using the Steamdeck as a computer module on spacecraft. Why does it matter this much to some of you to keep insisting the Steamdeck is a something it's neither marketed as, or anyone is really going to use it for? Other than the 3 people or so who will go "woo hoo, watch me plug in a dGPU via this overly convoluted mechanism at the expense of ever being able to use it as a portable gaming machine ever again" who will insist it's a PC because they spent a PC's worth of money into making a Toy into not-quite-a-toy because they felt they had something to prove. 

The port on the Steamdeck doesn't even support eGPUs (it's not Thunderbolt or fully-fledged USB4). Nobody is plugging GPUs into a Steamdeck (except content creators for content).

 

8 hours ago, Kisai said:

People built compute clusters out of PS3's, they didn't occasionally take them back out to play games. I'm sorry if the idea that using Windows on a Steamdeck doesn't turn it magically into a $5000 desktop PC, all you're doing is turning a $500 toy into a $500 brag to a bunch of people who don't actually care.

So what? You are comparing a company buying thousands of PS3s and with literally infinite money (in comparison) to somebody commuting for 2 h every day and needing a word processor from time to time.

It costs you ~ $120 to buy the official dock (even less with a cheap USB-C adapter) and some peripherals to use with a screen already in your house (TV for example). For $300 you can buy a Nexdock and use it with the Steamdeck. You won't get anything even close for your money if you would buy a notebook. A "gaming first" device doesn't mean it cannot fit into the life of millions of people without the cash to buy several devices.

[WolframaticAlpha]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

Checkmate? Although I'm going to guess you have already posted these at some point and instead of conceding the game of Chess change to playing Checkers with the pieces instead.

Can't make out if I was the spectator or the one playing the game.

Anyways, here, have a nice clip:

https://youtu.be/pfHxl46KyZM?t=189 (3:09-3:23, can't find a gif for it)

[Kisai]

On 4/16/2023 at 3:44 PM, Arika S said:

It is marketed as a pc, you've been provided screenshots of proof, for some reason you're choosing to just ignore them.

Because they don't market it as a PC? Like I've said a dozen times already and nobody has proven otherwise? The marketing is always showing it off as a toy.

https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck

"Like any other PC", not "Is a PC"

It's not a PC out of the box. There, right on their site. This is the same language Linux people use to say that Android phones are Linux. Just because you can install something else on the device, does not make it into another product. This is not in their marketing material. This is in a FAQ. The rest of the FAQ questions are about reserving a preorder.

 

As I stated, repeatedly, it is not marketed by Steam as a PC, thus it's not a PC. 

 

You know who keeps marketing their devices as PC's? Apple. Twitter for the last month has been pushing an ad from Apple that says "Yes It runs Excel"

 

What does Steam do?

 

Steam does not refer to the Steamdeck as a PC in their own marketing. 

 

If it was marketed as a PC, you'd see it running things other than games. Why people seem to insist it's a PC when it's not ever shown being a PC

 

On 4/16/2023 at 3:44 PM, Arika S said:

Laptops and oem desktops exist that are weaker than the steam deck soc.

 

Windows does not a PC make...

The circular logic is just getting tiring.

"It's a PC!" , okay, show me a video or screenshot from Valve of them running a Microsoft Word directly on it. Because that's the benchmark of something being a PC according to IBM ads from 1980-1984

 

 

On 4/16/2023 at 3:44 PM, Arika S said:

The only reason I could think that you're going down this route is because you drank the apple coolaid of "I'm a mac" "I'm a pc".

Nope. I'm going down this route because I get 6 notifications from people clowning on the subject who I assure you have no horse in this race.

 

On 4/16/2023 at 3:44 PM, Arika S said:

I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to argue against the steamdeck being called a pc. What do you lose if it is defined as a pc?

Nothing, I don't own one. I would not buy one. For exactly the reasons I said.

 

"It is not a PC"

 

This device fullfills zero needs I have:

1. It's not a PC

2. It's does not run Windows out of the box, which is a requirement to run WINDOWS GAMES that it markets it being capable of playing.

3. It requires expensive accessories to being it up to a "computer-like" experience, the same as using a smartphone, smartTV or tablet

4. It does not qualify as a PC because it does not run applications you expect from a PC, like Microsoft's productivity tools. Look at what Microsoft does put on Steam...

 

It's pretty clear Microsoft does not view Steam as anything other than a game store. But what about some other companies hmm?

 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/585410/GameMaker_Studio_2_Desktop/

 

 

 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/352290/Rapture_Session__Pro/

 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1204050/Pixel_Studio__pixel_art_editor/

 

Like software that is "Not a game" does not work on the Steamdeck. For some very obvious reasons, because these require Windows API's that are not game API's. 

 

5. It doesn't run everything because it's not a PC

https://www.steamdeck.com/en/verified

If you want to use 100% of the software on Steam, you need to run Windows, which the device does not come with.

 

 

Like even when you go back to ads from the 80's, what makes a "PC" a PC is that keyboard input is integral to the experience. That's why things like the IBM PC, PCjr, Tandy 1000, C64, Apple II, TRS-80, Amiga, Atari ST, ZX Spectrum, were marketed as computers. The term "PC" always meant "IBM PC" until about 1996. All these other devices were never marketed as a "PC", they were often marketed as a "Family Computer" because it could do Dad's Business stuff and Lil' Timmy's games.

 

"IBM PC" compatibility was a feature.

All these first-generation IBM PC-compatible's up until the ATX standard in the late 90's were marketed as "PC compatible"

Before Windows became a thing that you NEEDED to be a PC. Less you forget the MPC standard in 1991 that defined what a PC is after that point.

 

So what have we learned children? What makes a "PC":

A) Data entry is via keyboard

B) Games can be played via the keyboard

C) Software is installed by physical media

D) Everything you need to use the device ships in the box.

 

The Steam deck is none of those. Just like a smartphone, tablet or smartTV. 

 

If your only definition that something is a "PC" because it runs software, congratulations, your watch and your car are also PC's.

 

[starsmine]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

So what have we learned children? What makes a "PC":

A) Data entry is via keyboard

B) Games can be played via the keyboard

C) Software is installed by physical media

D) Everything you need to use the device ships in the box.

 

The Steam deck is none of those. Just like a smartphone, tablet or smartTV. 

 

If your only definition that something is a "PC" because it runs software, congratulations, your watch and your car are also PC's.

 

If your only definition is IBM PC, you clearly do not understand the fact that IBM is a MODIFIER to the following two words, PERSONAL COMPUTER. 
IBM MODIFIES PC, aka is a SUBSET of all PCs. 

Are you for real with your 4 point definition?

Steam deck can do A, B and C

D is just a straight up lie. 

Are you really going to call PCs that ship without a monitor and keyboard NOT a PC?
Those are... everywhere. None of my Desktop PCs in the last 20 years have shipped with a monitor or keyboard. Fuck man, IBM PCs in the 80s didnt ship with them necessarily. Those must not be PCs

Install software WHERE? IBM PCs did not even originally come with storage, OR EVEN SUPPORT FOR IT. It used floppies and a rom. 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Because they don't market it as a PC? Like I've said a dozen times already and nobody has proven otherwise? The marketing is always showing it off as a toy.

https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck

"Like any other PC", not "Is a PC"

It's not a PC out of the box. There, right on their site. This is the same language Linux people use to say that Android phones are Linux. Just because you can install something else on the device, does not make it into another product. This is not in their marketing material. This is in a FAQ. The rest of the FAQ questions are about reserving a preorder.

As I stated, repeatedly, it is not marketed by Steam as a PC, thus it's not a PC. 

"Steam Deck is a PC"

Just like any other PC does NOT exclude being a being a PC. It is literally not an exclusionary statement. 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

 

If it was marketed as a PC, you'd see it running things other than games. Why people seem to insist it's a PC when it's not ever shown being a PC

They.... HAVE. They literally have. Before it even launched they said you can install windows on it (your definition of PC)

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

The circular logic is just getting tiring.

"It's a PC!" , okay, show me a video or screenshot from Valve of them running a Microsoft Word directly on it. Because that's the benchmark of something being a PC according to IBM ads from 1980-1984

 

Dude... It can boot into windows. It can run Microsoft Word. You can run any kind of x86 linux on it, it can run Microsoft word.

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Nope. I'm going down this route because I get 6 notifications from people clowning on the subject who I assure you have no horse in this race.

 

Nothing, I don't own one. I would not buy one. For exactly the reasons I said.

 

"It is not a PC"

 

This device fullfills zero needs I have:

1. It's not a PC

2. It's does not run Windows out of the box, which is a requirement to run WINDOWS GAMES that it markets it being capable of playing.

3. It requires expensive accessories to being it up to a "computer-like" experience, the same as using a smartphone, smartTV or tablet

4. It does not qualify as a PC because it does not run applications you expect from a PC, like Microsoft's productivity tools. Look at what Microsoft does put on Steam...

 

 

Clowning on you here is well deserved. 

Also to say we didnt use PC before IBM is false. Just straight up false. We DID. You had Terminals, which were not personal, and you had personal computers. IBM branded PCs were just IBM branded PCs. And Sharpie/Kleenex/Velcro happened to PC. Marketing dont give a fuck if the layman thinks PC means IBM, they just want to sell their PCs. 

[Arika]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

Because that's the benchmark of something being a PC according to IBM ads from 1980-1984

who gives a fuck about what IBM said 40 years ago? are you serious??

 

the rest of your post is completely bullshit, so i'm not even going to respond to it. you have lost your mind....

 

 

[HenrySalayne]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

Like even when you go back to ads from the 80's, what makes a "PC" a PC is that keyboard input is integral to the experience. That's why things like the IBM PC, PCjr, Tandy 1000, C64, Apple II, TRS-80, Amiga, Atari ST, ZX Spectrum, were marketed as computers. The term "PC" always meant "IBM PC" until about 1996. All these other devices were never marketed as a "PC", they were often marketed as a "Family Computer" because it could do Dad's Business stuff and Lil' Timmy's games.

 

"IBM PC" compatibility was a feature.

All these first-generation IBM PC-compatible's up until the ATX standard in the late 90's were marketed as "PC compatible"

Before Windows became a thing that you NEEDED to be a PC. Less you forget the MPC standard in 1991 that defined what a PC is after that point.

 

So what have we learned children? What makes a "PC":

A) Data entry is via keyboard

B) Games can be played via the keyboard

C) Software is installed by physical media

D) Everything you need to use the device ships in the box.

It's hilarious that you spend your day researching the term "PC" and what it supposed to mean, just to find that everything you wrote before was complete rubbish.

And now you found something equally worthless. Your narrative still suffers from the same problem as before: drawing arbitrary lines in the sand excludes not only the Steamdeck from being a PC but also a lot of other devices (PCs).

The more you come up with wild theories why the Steamdeck is not a PC, the more you prove that it actually is indistinguishable from a PC.

 

[Kisai]

18 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Are you really going to call PCs that ship without a monitor and keyboard NOT a PC?

Some did. Those cheaper $200 computers like the Amiga and Atari used a television to save you having to spend $500 on one.

 

PC's not coming with monitors and keyboards is a BYO option, that has only been something you could do when whitebox-PC's became an option. In case you've lived in a closet all your life...

 

 

There is a whole series of books in the 90's like this, that encouraged people to build their own PC rather than buying a IBM or Compaq, because the vast majority of computers you could buy in the 90's were not BYO's. That only became a thing with the ATX platform, like I said. Prior to the ATX, after-market parts could not be had to build a PC unless you had some good connections to get the parts. There was no chassis standard other than the IBM.

 

Was there ever a "How to build a Macintosh and save a bundle?" No, because other than that really short period of time in the 90's there were legal Mac Clones, there was no possibility of ever buying Mac parts aftermarket. Amiga, sure, but not a Mac.

 

18 minutes ago, starsmine said:

 

Those are... everywhere. None of my Desktop PCs in the last 20 years have shipped with a monitor or keyboard. Fuck man, IBM PCs in the 80s didnt ship with them necessarily. Those must not be PCs

Cause you ordered it without them. Go buy a Dell or HP. They still come with them.

Notice you can't remove the keyboard from the purchase.

 

 

18 minutes ago, starsmine said:

 

 

Install software WHERE? IBM PCs did not even originally come with storage, OR EVEN SUPPORT FOR IT. It used floppies and a rom.

Go back to that 1984 ad. Both of them. Notice how they talk up how it can run anything. You literately ran software off the floppy disks.

 

 

18 minutes ago, starsmine said:

 

"Steam Deck is a PC"

Just like any other PC does NOT exclude being a being a PC. It is literally not an exclusionary statement. 

They.... HAVE. They literally have. Before it even launched they said you can install windows on it (your definition of PC)

And it does not come with Windows, It comes with a proprietary OS designed only to use software "approved" by Steam. You're not locked down to it, no, but if Valve wanted to advertise it as a PC, it would have came with Windows 11.

 

They go out of their way to avoid showing it running Windows, because it does not, and still does not run games on Windows as well as a retail desktop PC would.

 

18 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Dude... It can boot into windows. It can run Microsoft Word. You can run any kind of x86 linux on it, it can run Microsoft word.

Clowning on you here is well deserved. 

You are contorting the idea that it "can run windows" with "it runs windows", it does not run windows out of the box, It does not run windows applications out of the box because it needs Windows, which it does not come with. It also doesn't run Linux common native applications out of the box either. Because that's not what they're marketing it as.

 

The only clowns here are the ones insisting the Steamdeck is a PC, when it isn't.

 

If you have to DO ANYTHING to a device out of a box to make it useful, it's not suited to that use case. Isn't it? 

 

Saying the steamdeck is a PC has about as much honesty to it as using a Tesla car to mine bitcoin. It has a GPU, you can mine bitcoin on it... but buying a Tesla just to mine bitcoin is intensely stupid. Buying a Steamdeck to use as a word processor, where you have to type 1 character at a time on a touch screen is also, intensely stupid.

 

It's not a PC in a way matters to someone who wants a PC. 

 

18 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Also to say we didnt use PC before IBM is false. Just straight up false. We DID. You had Terminals, which were not personal, and you had personal computers. IBM branded PCs were just IBM branded PCs. And Sharpie/Kleenex/Velcro happened to PC. Marketing dont give a fuck if the layman thinks PC means IBM, they just want to sell their PCs. 

Before the IBM PC, we didn't have "Personal Computers", we had either terminals that connected to a mini computer or a mainframe computer, or people were still using Selectric typewriters. The entire idea of PC was that you didn't need it to be connected to other hardware for it to be useful.

 

If you want the Steamdeck to be useful as a gaming PC, you need to 

1) Install Windows, $200

2) Use a $300 docking station that adds the necessary KVM to make it PC-like.

3) Leave it plugged in the entire time. Thus defeating the purpose of it being a "portable game console"

 

As I pointed out earlier. A Macmini is farther ahead in this regards, it can run a full copy of Windows inside a VM, it has x86-64 emulation for both Mac and Windows software when paired with a copy of Windows. It does MORE than the steamdeck does, at a price lower than that of a Steamdeck. So why would you go through the effort of turning a reasonable gaming device into an unreasonable gaming PC when you could have bought a gaming PC for the price?

 

There is no shame in going "I did it because I thought it would be cool", but it's not practical. Nobody buys a Steamdeck and uses it only to send emails in Outlook. That's completely impractical. A cheaper full sized laptop can do that. So can a Macbook Air.

 

There is no reason to own a Steamdeck unless you already have a Steam game library. You're not going to buy a Steamdeck as babys-first-game-console.

 

Game Consoles, SmartTV's, SmartPhones, Tablets, are not PC's. They are intended for a specific subset of computing, that that experience offers. If you want to use it for not it's intended purpose, you are wasting a lot of money and time on doing so.

 

We humor people who want to run Linux on everything, because it can extend the life of devices abandoned by their manufacturers, but nobody who matters cares about running Linux on everything. The "Year of Desktop Linux" will never happen, because no corporation sees a commercial use case for it happening. For that to happen both Apple and Microsoft have to abandon their principles, forcing the hand of OEM's to build their own OS's.

[HenrySalayne]

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

2) Use a $300 docking station that adds the necessary KVM to make it PC-like.

That's an easy to disprove lie - so maybe check your facts before you make such unfounded claims.

 

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

And it does not come with Windows, It comes with a proprietary OS designed only to use software "approved" by Steam. You're not locked down to it, no, but if Valve wanted to advertise it as a PC, it would have came with Windows 11.

Apple want's to have a word to you about Mac OS and their PCs they sell...

 

A PC is a PC whether or not an operating system is installed. If I format the storage device of a PC rendering it without an operating system it's still a PC.

 

Literally nowhere in any accepted industry definition of "personal computer" is a requirement for it to have an operating system installed, the definition is literally based on what it can do and being purposed for a cheap enough for a single person to use.

 

If it has a microprocessor, priced accordingly and can be used for induvial use then it is a personal computer (PC). PC was defined before Windows, or Mac OS, was even a thing.

 

7 hours ago, Kisai said:

As I stated, repeatedly, it is not marketed by Steam as a PC, thus it's not a PC. 

Except it literally is. Refer to my posted images directly off the official SteamDeck website. Not I, nor anyone else here will accept any other response from you other than "My mistake, I was wrong about this point."

 

There is zero debate about this, nobody here is going to accept any reality defying statements from you. The official marketing from Steam is it's a PC.

 

7 hours ago, Kisai said:

If it was marketed as a PC, you'd see it running things other than games. Why people seem to insist it's a PC when it's not ever shown being a PC

In the nicest possible way, open your eyes.

 

 

I see the SteamDeck running Firefox. Can you please confirm or deny that you see Firefox running on the SteamDeck using Steam OS.

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

That's an easy to disprove lie - so maybe check your facts before you make such unfounded claims.

 

Maybe you should. Last I checked the dock didn't come with the steamdeck.

 

 

[leadeater]

7 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Maybe you should. Last I checked the dock didn't come with the steamdeck.

Official MSRP of the SteamDeck Dock is $89.99

[Kisai]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Apple want's to have a word to you about Mac OS and their PCs they sell...

Less you forget what the argument is about, Apple has never tried to say a Mac was anything other than a "Mac" first. It doesn't sell iphones and ipads as "PC's"

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/ipad/ipad756c56a8/ipados

Quote

Do any of the following:

• Set up your iPad for the first time.

• Use iPad as a second display for your Mac.

• Sync content or transfer files between your iPad and computer.

• Share your iPad internet connection (Wi-Fi + Cellular models) with your computer.

• Use your computer to erase all content and settings from iPad.

• Update iPad using your computer.

 

Apple pretty much views the iPad as something as an accessory to a Mac-based ecosystem. Sure, you don't need specifically a Mac, but if you're using the iPad as a replacement for a Windows PC or a Mac, you're going to be find that touchpad non-productive to use for 8 hours a day. Someone writing a novel? Probably fine.

 

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

A PC is a PC whether or not an operating system is installed. If I format the storage device of a PC rendering it without an operating system it's still a PC.

No, a software-defined device without an operating system, is a paperweight. The software on the device defines what it is used for. Not the hardware. The input mechanism is key to what utility it has. You're not installing Linux on an iPad to use it as a Desktop PC any more than you are installing the Desktop MacOS on it. Yes, it's the same CPU, but that is not the same OS designed around a touch screen versus mouse+keyboard input environment.

 

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Literally nowhere in any accepted industry definition of "personal computer" is a requirement for it to have an operating system installed, the definition is literally based on what it can do and being purposed for a cheap enough for a single person to use.

 

If it has a microprocessor, priced accordingly and can be used for induvial use then it is a personal computer (PC). PC was defined before Windows, or Mac OS, was even a thing.

Uh huh, and a a microprocessor alone, is a paper weight. People like to turn them into keychains, but by your logic this CPU alone is still a PC.