Apple allegedly cancelled iPhone SE 4

[AlTech]

Summary

Apple has allegedly cancelled their iPhone SE 4 according to infamous analyst Ming Chi Kuo, who specializes in analysing Apple rumours, leaks, and news.

 

Apple is allegedly unhappy with iPhone SE 3's worse than anticipated sales and believes further price increases in the iPhone lineup could make future SE models even more undesirable and not worth selling.

 

Although as The Verge points out, arguably 2023 or 2024 is a better time than ever to release an iPhone SE model because of the increasing price sensitivity of buyers.

 

Quotes

Quote

We may not be getting a new iPhone SE in 2024, according to analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, who bases his predictions on sources in the supply chain. On Friday, Kuo wrote in a blog post that Apple had canceled production and shipment plans for the phone after his prediction last month that a fourth-gen iPhone SE could be canceled or delayed.

Kuo thinks the reason the phone is getting axed could be that Apple’s lower-end phones were selling worse than the company hoped (in September, Bloomberg reported that there was more demand for iPhone 14 Pros than regular iPhone 14s) and due to concerns that another price increase for the lineup could make it less attractive to price-conscious buyers.

 

My thoughts

 It's a shame that Apple is driving iPhone sales into the ground but I'm not surprised that the Pro is outselling the normal 14 when the 14 series is mostly a rebrand of 13 series. The SE 3 not selling well is likely cos people are tired of buying an iPhone 8 with new internals and the price hike didn't help at all.

 

For future SE models to sell well, I think we'd need to see an iPhone XR or iPhone 11 or iPhone 12 chassis with an A15 for cheap assuming Apple ever decides to resume the iPhone SE programme.

 

Sources

https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/6/23542525/apple-iphone-se-4-2024-canceled-rumor-qualcomm

[tim0901]

33 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Apple is allegedly unhappy with iPhone SE 3's worse than anticipated sales and believes further price increases in the iPhone lineup could make future SE models even more undesirable and not worth selling.

Well yeah, it's terrible value. At launch it was okay, but here in Europe it's never exactly been great and today it's just outright laughable. At £50 more than the Pixel 6a at MSRP - today more like £150 more - the only real reason to go for the SE is that you refuse to not have an iPhone. The 6a is not only significantly cheaper, but also has better specs in almost every way.

33 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

 It's a shame that Apple is driving iPhone sales into the ground but I'm not surprised that the Pro is outselling the normal 14 when the 14 series is mostly a rebrand of 13 series. The SE 3 not selling well is likely cos people are tired of buying an iPhone 8 with new internals and the price hike didn't help at all.

When you can buy a 13 for £200 less than a 14, it's pretty much a no-brainer to many people. Either you save £200 and take the 13, or spend £200 more and take the 14 Pro. The middle point makes no sense. The 13 is probably also cannibalising SE sales, as it's only £200 more but you get a full flagship-tier phone, as opposed to a 2017 iPhone with an SOC upgrade.

 

I'd absolutely love to see sales numbers for the 13 after the release of the 14, but I doubt Apple will ever let us know. The 13 is considerably higher up the phone sales charts on Amazon UK (15th vs 22nd), but both are beaten by half a dozen different renewed iPhone models so I'm not sure how much you can really gleam from that chart other than "people really love buying renewed iPhone 8s" - another reason why the SE is selling so poorly I guess!

[Shreyas1]

Kind of a shame, I would like to see more small phones since they've all gotten so big these days. 

[saltycaramel]

I think the SE4 among other things was supposed to be a low-stakes test ground for Apple’s first in-house 5G modem, while still playing it safe with Qualcomm’s modems on regular and Pro iPhones.

 

5G modem not ready yet

 

+

 

people overwhelmingly buying iPhone Pros (not necessarily a bad thing for Apple’s bottom line)

 

+

 

risky macro environment which calls for more deliberate and cautious decisions

=
 

iPhone SE4 cancelled for 2024

 

Doesn’t mean it’s cancelled forever.

Don’t let those iPhone XR production lines go to waste. Just like they milked the iPhone 8 production lines for 6 years now with the SE2 and SE3. 

[Dracarris]

12 hours ago, tim0901 said:

The 6a is not only significantly cheaper, but also has better specs in almost every way.

Maybe on paper - well unless you look at Benchmarks Scores where the A15 pulls ahead of the Google Tensor by almost 70%.

[tim0901]

6 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Maybe on paper - well unless you look at Benchmarks Scores where the A15 pulls ahead of the Google Tensor by almost 70%.

Yeah, the chip is the bit that isn't better. But when you look at the rest of the phone - the camera, the display, the battery life etc. - the 6a blows the SE out of the park. Having a top-tier SOC doesn't change the fact that the rest of the SE is straight from 2017 and therefore antiquated in 2023. That SOC doesn't suddenly make the SE the better buy, and heck most people care far more about the other things that I mentioned above. If the two phones were available from the same brand such that loyalty didn't come into play, the 6a would be picked by the vast majority of people.

[Dracarris]

2 hours ago, tim0901 said:

Yeah, the chip is the bit that isn't better. But when you look at the rest of the phone - the camera, the display, the battery life etc. - the 6a blows the SE out of the park. Having a top-tier SOC doesn't change the fact that the rest of the SE is straight from 2017 and therefore antiquated in 2023. That SOC doesn't suddenly make the SE the better buy, and heck most people care far more about the other things that I mentioned above. If the two phones were available from the same brand such that loyalty didn't come into play, the 6a would be picked by the vast majority of people.

Google claims 24hr of battery life for the 6a and the SE can most probably beat that or at least match.

 

The camera is 12MP, maybe I missed why it would be better than the SE. Its camera is not from 2017 but gets iteratively updated.

 

The display of the 6a is OLED, true. However the SE already has over 300ppi so resolution wise there is nothing to gain anyhow.

 

Then, there‘s the fact that with the SE you get full access to Apples ecosystem/integration which is a huge plus if you already own an ipad or Mac, plus the usual 5-7 years of full support from Apple including full-generation iOS upgrades and security patches for even longer.

[tim0901]

3 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Google claims 24hr of battery life for the 6a and the SE can most probably beat that or at least match.

The battery in the SE is less than half the capacity of that in the 6a (2018mAh compared to 4410mAh) and as such, as literally every review of the device mentions, it has absolutely appalling battery life compared to basically any other modern phone. Most reviewers peg it at ~12 hours, with the 6a solidly beating this figure even if it doesn't quite meet the 24h claims made by Google.

3 hours ago, Dracarris said:

The camera is 12MP, maybe I missed why it would be better than the SE. Its camera is not from 2017 but gets iteratively updated.

Yes, it is from 2017. It is the exact same sensor and lens system as the one from the iPhone 8. And sure it's been getting some software updates since then - the exact same ones that the iPhone 8 has been getting - but these are not the same updates that the later models have gotten (it has no night mode for example) and it shows.

 

The Pixel 6a's camera has consistently been reviewed as one of the best smartphone cameras on the market and it even recently won the 2022 blind smartphone camera test that MKBHD ran in December - check out this video if you're interested - beating out flagship smartphones like the Pixel 7 and iPhone 14. Over 600,000 people voted in total and the 6a came out on top averaged across the three categories, while the SE slotted in at 13th out of the 16 phones that were included.

 

So no, the SE's camera setup is not as good. On paper it looks to be, but in reality it is very much not.

 

Also of note is that the 6a also gets an additional secondary ultrawide camera while the SE is still a single camera system.

3 hours ago, Dracarris said:

The display of the 6a is OLED, true. However the SE already has over 300ppi so resolution wise there is nothing to gain anyhow.

Not quite sure what you're saying here.

 

The 6a's display is much larger for one at 6.1" vs the SE's miniscule 4.7" (even the iPhone 13 Mini is much bigger at 5.4"). The 6a also has a higher resolution and pixel density - yes the SE's display is 326ppi, but because of its size it isn't even a 1080p resolution - it's 750x1334. The 6a's display for comparison is 1080x2400 - almost identical to the 13 Mini - which works out at 429ppi. And this doesn't even touch on things like colour accuracy that aren't visible on a basic specs sheet.

 

You are delusional if you don't think there's anything to gain moving from the SE's display. Put these two phones side by side in real life and it'll be a night and day comparison.

3 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Then, there‘s the fact that with the SE you get full access to Apples ecosystem/integration which is a huge plus if you already own an ipad or Mac, plus the usual 5-7 years of full support from Apple including full-generation iOS upgrades and security patches for even longer.

Updates... eh. You don't get all the features from those iOS upgrades these days - many of the headline features (eg the Dynamic Island) are locked to the newest devices for sometimes completely arbitrary reasons. Look down the list of iOS 16 features and see just how many of them aren't available on anything older than 2019's iPhone XS/XR - after 3 years you're getting only a fraction of the new stuff being added. You also get 5 years of updates with Pixel devices too these days, so longevity really isn't the killing blow that it once used to be - especially given I'm only paying 2/3 as much in the first place. If I was spending the same amount then sure, I'd care a bit more. But as I'm spending less, I'm happy to replace it a year or two sooner - £300 over 5 years is less per year than £450 over 7 years after all.

 

And yes, you get access to The Ecosystem. If this matters to you then sure - as I said "the only real reason to go for the SE is that you refuse to not have an iPhone" and this is exactly what I meant by this.

 

But the SE doesn't realy make sense to this kind of customer. If you're already entrenched in the Apple ecosystem, surely you would be after a better iPhone? If you can afford to immerse yourself in this ecosystem buying iPads and MacBooks, is spending £200 more on a 13 Mini instead of the SE - and thereby getting a much better phone - not a good idea? Buying the cheap model because of its ties with the otherwise expensive ecosystem doesn't really add up.

[staticpage]

It seems to me that more and more consumers are leaving the apple marketplace. I am seeing videos on social media of people complaining about lack of features on iphone vs android. If true this could be more of a factor for iphone sales than any of the stated reasons. I think the normal price-conscious buyer only buys a new phone when they need it aka their phone is dead or dying. Shopping around might lead them to believe that an android flavor phone is a better buy. I really don't know much about the phone market as I'm a extreme price-conscious buyer I still use a note 8 and pixel 2 xl both bought right after launch. I do repair some phones for family members and I have iphones that I repaired but I don't want to buy in to that app store for the same stuff I have on google play. Also there are a few apps I use everyday that used to not have or currently have no alternative on iOS.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

Not surprised and the SE is possibly becoming more of a burden because they are now actively supporting 3 different screen... shapes? at the same time.

 

No notch with the iPhone 8 and SE lines

Notch with the iPhone 10 to 14

And now the pill with the iPhone 14 Pro

 

Plus with the sheer number of different models Apple themselves are still selling new and in the Refurbished store, they're actively killing their own market for the SE. Heck you can still buy a iPhone 12 new on apple.ca in 2023.

 

And looking on Refurbished, iPhone 11s can probably still be had depending on stock. 

[AlTech]

6 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Google claims 24hr of battery life for the 6a and the SE can most probably beat that or at least match.

 

The camera is 12MP, maybe I missed why it would be better than the SE. Its camera is not from 2017 but gets iteratively updated.

 

The display of the 6a is OLED, true. However the SE already has over 300ppi so resolution wise there is nothing to gain anyhow.

It is basically a 720p screen tho. (Exact res is 1334x750). Besides extremely hardcore battery life warriors (who would buy a 5000mAh Android phone anyways,), who wants a low res screen?

6 hours ago, Dracarris said:

 

Then, there‘s the fact that with the SE you get full access to Apples ecosystem/integration which is a huge plus if you already own an ipad or Mac, plus the usual 5-7 years of full support from Apple including full-generation iOS upgrades and security patches for even longer.

 

It doesn't mean much for people half in, half out of the Apple ecosystem though. Those that only have an iPhone or those with just an iPhone and a Mac.

 

This also assumes people want to trade how their phone looks and feels for more updates. People, on the whole, have not shown that they are willing to do this.

[Kisai]

5 hours ago, staticpage said:

It seems to me that more and more consumers are leaving the apple marketplace.

Oh really? I've mostly seen the opposite. People complain that their Android phone is such a piece of crap that they wish there was something else, but they find the price of the iphone to be ridiculous.

 

Remember, before iphone, your typical phone was FREE, subsidized by the carrier, and that free phone was wholesale about $200 and lasted a week on a charge. Today you're asked to pay 10x as much for something that doesn't last a day.

 

[Dracarris]

11 hours ago, tim0901 said:

The battery in the SE is less than half the capacity of that in the 6a (2018mAh compared to 4410mAh) and as such, as literally every review of the device mentions, it has absolutely appalling battery life compared to basically any other modern phone. Most reviewers peg it at ~12 hours, with the 6a solidly beating this figure even if it doesn't quite meet the 24h claims made by Google.

With the poor optimization some Android phones have, raw battery capacity has very little meaning other than inflated device volume and weight. But sure, double the raw capacity and for sure you will have longer battery life. Now the question is whether people that want "small phones" would go for the 6a.

11 hours ago, tim0901 said:

The Pixel 6a's camera has consistently been reviewed as one of the best smartphone cameras on the market and it even recently won the 2022 blind smartphone camera test that MKBHD ran in December - check out this video if you're interested - beating out flagship smartphones like the Pixel 7 and iPhone 14. Over 600,000 people voted in total and the 6a came out on top averaged across the three categories, while the SE slotted in at 13th out of the 16 phones that were included.

Okay that's impressive. I wonder why I heard so little about the camera of this phone if it even apparently beats flagship cameras.

11 hours ago, tim0901 said:

The 6a's display is much larger for one at 6.1" vs the SE's miniscule 4.7" (even the iPhone 13 Mini is much bigger at 5.4"). The 6a also has a higher resolution and pixel density - yes the SE's display is 326ppi, but because of its size it isn't even a 1080p resolution - it's 750x1334. The 6a's display for comparison is 1080x2400 - almost identical to the 13 Mini - which works out at 429ppi. And this doesn't even touch on things like colour accuracy that aren't visible on a basic specs sheet.

With a physically larger screen a higher resolution of course makes sense, but for the size the display of the SE has, its resolution is more than fine. Even with over 120% eyesight there is absolutely no way for me to tell a 300ppi from a 400ppi screen apart. With both there are absolutely no pixels visible/discernable.

11 hours ago, tim0901 said:

Updates... eh. You don't get all the features from those iOS upgrades these days - many of the headline features (eg the Dynamic Island) are locked to the newest devices for sometimes completely arbitrary reasons. Look down the list of iOS 16 features and see just how many of them aren't available on anything older than 2019's iPhone XS/XR - after 3 years you're getting only a fraction of the new stuff being added. You also get 5 years of updates with Pixel devices too these days, so longevity really isn't the killing blow that it once used to be - especially given I'm only paying 2/3 as much in the first place. If I was spending the same amount then sure, I'd care a bit more. But as I'm spending less, I'm happy to replace it a year or two sooner - £300 over 5 years is less per year than £450 over 7 years after all.

Apart from the environmental aspect that is attached to "replacing a phone a year or two sooner", x years of updates does not always mean the same thing. And even if some iOS features might not be available, you still get several full-generational iOS upgrades and not only security patches. Nice to see that some Android manufacturers finally got around to providing decent long-term support.

I'm on iOS 16 on a 2nd-gen iPhone SE and apart from features that are locked to hardware I have no clue what glorious things I'd be missing out on. Even the features in the article you linked for older phones are rather niche and not numerous, given the full list of new features/changes.

11 hours ago, tim0901 said:

And yes, you get access to The Ecosystem. If this matters to you then sure - as I said "the only real reason to go for the SE is that you refuse to not have an iPhone" and this is exactly what I meant by this.

"Refusing to not have an iphone" sounds a lot different and worse than wanting access to the ecosystem.

11 hours ago, tim0901 said:

But the SE doesn't realy make sense to this kind of customer. If you're already entrenched in the Apple ecosystem, surely you would be after a better iPhone? If you can afford to immerse yourself in this ecosystem buying iPads and MacBooks, is spending £200 more on a 13 Mini instead of the SE - and thereby getting a much better phone - not a good idea? Buying the cheap model because of its ties with the otherwise expensive ecosystem doesn't really add up.

I have a Macbook Pro and an iphone SE. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. I wanted a cheap, small iphone with full ecosystem integration and a fingerprint sensor.

That 200 Queen-Money gap is also a bit more significant than you make it look, we're talking about an almost 50% increase.

8 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

It is basically a 720p screen tho. (Exact res is 1334x750). Besides extremely hardcore battery life warriors (who would buy a 5000mAh Android phone anyways,), who wants a low res screen?

Geez not this BS again. Resolution means absolutely nothing if not looked at in relation to physical screen size, ffs. The screen of the SE has more than 300ppi already, any increase in resolution without changing the screen size would just waste battery life without improving the user experience in any noticeable way.

[AlTech]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

With the poor optimization some Android phones have, raw battery capacity has very little meaning other than inflated device volume and weight. But sure, double the raw capacity and for sure you will have longer battery life. Now the question is whether people that want "small phones" would go for the 6a.

Okay that's impressive. I wonder why I heard so little about the camera of this phone if it even apparently beats flagship cameras.

With a physically larger screen a higher resolution of course makes sense, but for the size the display of the SE has, its resolution is more than fine. Even with over 120% eyesight there is absolutely no way for me to tell a 300ppi from a 400ppi screen apart. With both there are absolutely no pixels visible/discernable.

Apart from the environmental aspect that is attached to "replacing a phone a year or two sooner", x years of updates does not always mean the same thing. And even if some iOS features might not be available, you still get several full-generational iOS upgrades and not only security patches. Nice to see that some Android manufacturers finally got around to providing decent long-term support.

I'm on iOS 16 on a 2nd-gen iPhone SE and apart from features that are locked to hardware I have no clue what glorious things I'd be missing out on. Even the features in the article you linked for older phones are rather niche and not numerous, given the full list of new features/changes.

"Refusing to not have an iphone" sounds a lot different and worse than wanting access to the ecosystem.

I have a Macbook Pro and an iphone SE. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. I wanted a cheap, small iphone with full ecosystem integration and a fingerprint sensor.

That 200 Queen-Money gap is also a bit more significant than you make it look, we're talking about an almost 50% increase.

Geez not this BS again. Resolution means absolutely nothing if not looked at in relation to physical screen size, ffs. The screen of the SE has more than 300ppi already, any increase in resolution without changing the screen size would just waste battery life without improving the user experience in any noticeable way.

PPI in this case though is almost meaningless. The raw pixel count matters. The 8's screen is not a terribly sharp display and there's no justification as to why it needs to be so low resolution.

[Dracarris]

22 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

PPI in this case though is almost meaningless. The raw pixel count matters.

How. Just how would this make ANY sense whatsoever?? It does not. Raw pixel count is completely meaningless. It's such a simple thing to understand..

22 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

The 8's screen is not a terribly sharp display and there's no justification as to why it needs to be so low resolution.

Make a blind test between this screen and a 400+ ppi. You will not be able to tell the two apart. We print photos with 300ppi since basically no human can resolve higher than this.

The 8/SE screen has a higher ppi than a 4K panel on a 13" laptop. Try looking at one of these at 100% scaling. At any distance of your liking.

[Commodus]

Folks... you can dissect things all you like, but the truth remains that the iPhone SE sorely needs an upgrade. Apple can't keep rehashing the iPhone 8 design in an era where even $200 phones can have large notched screens.

 

The iPhone SE is a decent device, and I wouldn't quite call the Pixel 6a a surefire winner (the SE has wireless charging where the 6a doesn't, for example). But it's now mainly the device you get when you want a new iPhone and can't afford anything more. I'd like to see an SE that's once again a good value and keeps rivals like Google and Motorola on their toes.

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

Folks... you can dissect things all you like, but the truth remains that the iPhone SE sorely needs an upgrade. Apple can't keep rehashing the iPhone 8 design in an era where even $200 phones can have large notched screens.

 

The iPhone SE is a decent device, and I wouldn't quite call the Pixel 6a a surefire winner (the SE has wireless charging where the 6a doesn't, for example). But it's now mainly the device you get when you want a new iPhone and can't afford anything more. I'd like to see an SE that's once again a good value and keeps rivals like Google and Motorola on their toes.

SE in the case of the 12/13 mini. Pleeeaase. TouchID on the power button. One can only dream.

[Mihle]

3 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

 

3 hours ago, Dracarris said:

How. Just how would this make ANY sense whatsoever?? It does not. Raw pixel count is completely meaningless. It's such a simple thing to understand..

Make a blind test between this screen and a 400+ ppi. You will not be able to tell the two apart. We print photos with 300ppi since basically no human can resolve higher than this.

The 8/SE screen has a higher ppi than a 4K panel on a 13" laptop. Try looking at one of these at 100% scaling. At any distance of your liking.

How visible it is when viewing photos is not the only situation where you can or can't see difference pixel density.

 

I would argue that it's plenty easier to tell the difference on pixel density on screens if it's just text or symbols that is high contrast but thin ish lines, than it is viewing photos.

 

I have S20 FE, and my mum has S21 Ultra. While reading text, her phone is noticeably sharper than mine, tho you sort of get used to it, it's not that big difference. I would not be able to tell the difference when just viewing photos tho.

 

You do not have to see individual pixels for it to make a noticeable difference.

 

You don't use laptops or phones at the same distances.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

13 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

who wants a low res screen?

Someone who realized that at a normal distance the se screen resolution is all you really need? The perceived sharpness difference of 720p vs 1080p on a screen that size is going to be smal

[Dracarris]

21 minutes ago, Mihle said:

You don't use laptops or phones at the same distances.

Yes, you do. You sit right in front of the laptop to reach the keyboard comfortably and you hold a smartphone at arms length distance. In both cases the viewing distance is approx 30cm/1ft. And a 4K panel on a 13" laptop is insanely sharp no matter how close to it you get. It however does not matter as the vast majority of human eyes simply cannot resolve more than 300ppi. That resolution is not only for photo prints but print in general which includes text, technical documentation with fine lines and so on.

 

I'll yet have to see a blind test where people can actually reliably tell the difference between a 300 and 400ppi screen.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

13 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

you hold a smartphone at arms length distance.

What? How do you use a phone? My phone is probably about a foot from my eyes

a laptop screen will probably be 2x that away from me, if not closer to 3ft

[Dracarris]

5 minutes ago, Helpful Tech Witch said:

What? How do you use a phone? My phone is probably about a foot from my eyes

a laptop screen will probably be 2x that away from me, if not closer to 3ft

Sorry, forearms distance - approx 1ft.

Just measured it for my 14" laptop - literally exactly 1ft eyes-to-screen.

Unless you use an external keyboard or have a large laptop, you are most probably not over 2ft or even close to 1m (3ft) away.

[C0stanza]

Really hoping by the time I need to replace my SE 2020 they have something reasonably priced. My car has Carplay but no Android Auto so if I don’t want my car’s entertainment system to suddenly stop working I’m stuck with Apple.

[AlTech]

4 hours ago, Dracarris said:

How. Just how would this make ANY sense whatsoever?? It does not. Raw pixel count is completely meaningless. It's such a simple thing to understand..

If you can see pixels easily on a phone then PPI despite theoretically being high, is obviously not high enough.

4 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Make a blind test between this screen and a 400+ ppi. You will not be able to tell the two apart.

I think I would be able to.

4 hours ago, Dracarris said:

We print photos with 300ppi since basically no human can resolve higher than this.

The 8/SE screen has a higher ppi than a 4K panel on a 13" laptop.

But you hold your phone closer to you than your distance from your laptop when you use it. This is also why PPI in and of itself is a flawed metric in isolation.

4 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Try looking at one of these at 100% scaling. At any distance of your liking.

 

[AlTech]

13 hours ago, Helpful Tech Witch said:

Someone who realized that at a normal distance the se screen resolution is all you really need? The perceived sharpness difference of 720p vs 1080p on a screen that size is going to be smal

Okay but what are you getting in exchange for having an objectively inferior screen to other Android phones? If the SE cost less than competing Androids to make up for the worse screen then that would be fine but it doesn't.