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Seems like GN got to the bottom of the 12PIN connector debacle, or at least provided the best insight so far

VicBar
By VicBar
in Tech News
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Posted
16 hours ago, goodtofufriday said:

Regular uses should not be able to so easily make a product catch fire from regular use through minor mistakes. 

Fail to power the card or some such? Sure. But not set ablaze. That comes down to an issue in Design of so many people are getting it wrong. 

It should be noted. 
NOT ONE card has had a fire. Melting plastic is not a fire. Lets not be dramatic about what happened here.

3 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

The whole thing is sus, the solder joints are sus, the rail pins are sus, the plastic connector no-clip yet hard push nonsense, still not sure is it good crap, wiggle around on top of that, pressing cables that are near hard plastic connector potentially breakimg solder even. Quite a mess. Also couldn't/shouldn't those sense pins or urm ground ones be longer so they connect first when inserting?

Really I'm surprised new PSs didn't arrive earlier so at least adapter crap can be skipped already. Yes I know those can have issues but that adapter looks like a lap test thing. Weird choice.

Also ffs move power plugs from front and even side of the card and put them at back end so cable comes from case hole directly straight in card.

 

content://com.android.chrome.FileProvider/images/screenshot/1668693881112691465287.jpg

 

Also what about this?

the solder joints are not really sus.
Why would you want sense/ground connect early? that's the problem, they should connect late if they are not connecting at the same time.
Its not on the back of the card because most cases dont have the length requirements, its rarerer for a mid tower to not have the width requirements.

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Posted
19 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

One word: Copium

 

This is basically exactly what i thought from the start; Idiots blaming others for their mistake, then blowing it up on reddit and twitter.

 

GN really went the extra mile to prove it. Very good work on their end. And they've also proven again that the revenue from patreon and their merch really goes back into making better content. The piece of content alone is probably more in-depth than labs will ever be.

^^^^^^ I agree. GN isn't afraid to find and say the truth. It's a backbone reports desperately need again and I am happy to see some still do. LTT should really be taking notes if they plan to be a credible source with their lab

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
4 minutes ago, starsmine said:

the solder joints are not really sus.
Why would you want sense/ground connect early? that's the problem, they should connect late if they are not connecting at the same time.
Its not on the back of the card because most cases dont have the length requirements, its rarerer for a mid tower to not have the width requirements.

It was still odd to me seeing such solder though.

Yeah I meant connect later. Just how some other connectora have some longer and other shorter pins.

Yeah I mean was meant to say how come we have't moved power connectors on opposite side by now, slightly moving motherboard frame towards front allowing more depth at back for all cables. Could make everything connected from the back.

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4 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

Not plugging in a cable all the way isn't a minor mistake. If you can't even do that, you shouldn't build a PC yourself.

As noted in the GN video, and if youve handled the adapter yourself, it does not give a Click to know its fully steated. The length of it not being fully seated and melting was 4.5mm off being seated. The cables feels fully seated despite that.

 

Youre gonna tell me you can eyeball 4.5mm? Or have a touch that others dont? In any case a cable still should not be melting from not being fully seated. It should just fail to work just like 99% of every other connector ever made. Hell you have a molex connector not fully seated and that wont melt. 

car wiring harnesses, ribbion cables, high voltage, power outlets, etc - not fully seated? doesnt work.

Clearly a problem in design for these adapters if they work when not fully seated and MELT when a mere 4.5mm off.

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Posted
36 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

content://com.android.chrome.FileProvider/images/screenshot/1668693881112691465287.jpg

 

Also what about this?

 

Your photo attachment didn't work like that.

Corps aren't your friends. "Bottleneck calculators" are BS. Only suckers buy based on brand. It's your PC, do what makes you happy.  If your build meets your needs, you don't need anyone else to "rate" it for you. And talking about being part of a "master race" is cringe. Watch this space for further truths people need to hear.

 

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41 minutes ago, Middcore said:

 

Your photo attachment didn't work like that.

Yeah was on a phone..
meant this
Skype_Picture_2022_10_28T06_29_51_765Z-980x590.jpg
like proper crimping

| Ryzen 7 7800X3D | AM5 B650 Aorus Elite AX | G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5 32GB 6000MHz C30 | Sapphire PULSE Radeon RX 7900 XTX | Samsung 990 PRO 1TB with heatsink | Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 | Seasonic Focus GX-850 | Lian Li Lanccool III | Mousepad: Skypad 3.0 XL / Zowie GTF-X | Mouse: Zowie S1-C | Keyboard: Ducky One 3 TKL (Cherry MX-Speed-Silver) | Beyerdynamic MMX 300 (2nd Gen) | Acer XV272U | OS: Windows 11 |

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20 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

One word: Copium

 

This is basically exactly what i thought from the start; Idiots blaming others for their mistake, then blowing it up on reddit and twitter.

 

GN really went the extra mile to prove it. Very good work on their end. And they've also proven again that the revenue from patreon and their merch really goes back into making better content. The piece of content alone is probably more in-depth than labs will ever be.

I don't think people plugged it in THAT bad.  Most likely combined with a tense cable it pulled itself out.  One thing is the Nvidia cable I had did not click, I put a LOT of force on it.  The cablemod cable I eventually got did click.  This is actually good PCI-SIG is modifying the cable standard so that the sense pins are shorter.  Instead of melting it just will not power on.

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56 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

As noted in the GN video, and if youve handled the adapter yourself, it does not give a Click to know its fully steated. The length of it not being fully seated and melting was 4.5mm off being seated. The cables feels fully seated despite that.

 

Youre gonna tell me you can eyeball 4.5mm? Or have a touch that others dont? In any case a cable still should not be melting from not being fully seated. It should just fail to work just like 99% of every other connector ever made. Hell you have a molex connector not fully seated and that wont melt. 

car wiring harnesses, ribbion cables, high voltage, power outlets, etc - not fully seated? doesnt work.

Clearly a problem in design for these adapters if they work when not fully seated and MELT when a mere 4.5mm off.

It is quite possible to be visibly seated and it walks its way out because of tension.

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Posted
2 hours ago, goodtofufriday said:

As noted in the GN video, and if youve handled the adapter yourself, it does not give a Click to know its fully steated. The length of it not being fully seated and melting was 4.5mm off being seated. The cables feels fully seated despite that.

 

Youre gonna tell me you can eyeball 4.5mm? Or have a touch that others dont? In any case a cable still should not be melting from not being fully seated. It should just fail to work just like 99% of every other connector ever made. Hell you have a molex connector not fully seated and that wont melt. 

car wiring harnesses, ribbion cables, high voltage, power outlets, etc - not fully seated? doesnt work.

Clearly a problem in design for these adapters if they work when not fully seated and MELT when a mere 4.5mm off.

at bolded oh yes they do experienced it many times and you can actually find many images on 4 pin molex melted to hell

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Posted

If this happened with an AMD product

it would be a huge meme and cited as a reason not to buy their GPU's for at least the next 5 years. But with Nvidia it's "user error."

Corps aren't your friends. "Bottleneck calculators" are BS. Only suckers buy based on brand. It's your PC, do what makes you happy.  If your build meets your needs, you don't need anyone else to "rate" it for you. And talking about being part of a "master race" is cringe. Watch this space for further truths people need to hear.

 

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8 hours ago, goodtofufriday said:

 

Clearly a problem in design for these adapters if they work when not fully seated and MELT when a mere 4.5mm off.

For the metric-impaired, 4.5mm is close to 1/6th of an inch. Which means that that the entire socket and connector should have been at least 5mm longer/deeper.

 

Anyways, we're a bit beyond this now.

 

The ideal situation is either

A: Nobody buys the GPU's with the current version, and existing sold ones are recalled/repaired as they get damaged and warranty repaired for this issue.

or

B: All new GPU's come with a "revision B" of the socket

 

At any rate there may be some pressure to change the design anyway a year out since even the position of the connector on the FE card is rather stupid..

 

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13 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

Not plugging in a cable all the way isn't a minor mistake. If you can't even do that, you shouldn't build a PC yourself.

You're the kind of guy who says "you shouldn't use Linux if you can't fix the driver bugs by rewriting them yourself".

 

Jokes aside, mistakes happen, connectors shouldn't melt, and this design makes it harder than it should be to know if the cable is properly plugged or not.

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Posted

 

 

It should be noted that while the 12vhpwr connector has a latch to make sure it is secure, it is designed in a way that does not make it obvious if it has been properly secured. I do not count depending on only hearing an "audible click" as good design since the builder might be deaf. 

 

CB-CSR-16P4-60K-R-02-1080x1080.jpg

 

Maybe a hole in the catch is a better visual indicator since you'll be able to see if the bump on the socket has met the catch. 

 

 

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Posted

If you've built enough computers, you know when you plug in a 24, 8 or 4 pin connector that, occasionally, it'll latch but not really latch because the tolerances on the cable or connector aren't perfect. You normally want to give them a little tug to make sure it's actually connected. Thus, what GN found is that in the "connected but not actually latched firmly" state, the card can be active while the connection is not properly seated. Add some slow tension to the side and it slips. The intermediate connection state is where you get non-intended energy pass through which causes rapid heating.

Something like this isn't too surprising, and good on GN for digging down into it all.

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3 hours ago, Kinda Bottlenecked said:

 

 

It should be noted that while the 12vhpwr connector has a latch to make sure it is secure, it is designed in a way that does not make it obvious if it has been properly secured. I do not count depending on only hearing an "audible click" as good design since the builder might be deaf. 

 

CB-CSR-16P4-60K-R-02-1080x1080.jpg

 

Maybe a hole in the catch is a better visual indicator since you'll be able to see if the bump on the socket has met the catch. 

 

 

wtf is wrong with some engineers?

-sigh- feeling like I'm being too negative lately

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Something like this isn't too surprising, and good on GN for digging down into it all.

yeah, also makes me wish it did have a better chance of latching and proper connection/locking.

more so for an "next gen" or "improved" version.

Edited by Quackers101
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Posted
16 minutes ago, Quackers101 said:

yeah, also makes me wish it did have a better chance of latching and proper connection/locking.

more so for an "next gen" or "improved" version.

The new connector does have a retention latch, but it's weaker than the ones we're used to and not noticeable on the outside. I think that's the primary issue when taken with manufacturing variance. The failure rate is small, but it's likely really tight connectors feel connected without being, which is the issue. Anyone with those connectors should double check they're fully seated.

Had some 4-pins click in and not actually be seated before. So this isn't the most surprising of issues.

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15 hours ago, Kinda Bottlenecked said:

It should be noted that while the 12vhpwr connector has a latch to make sure it is secure, it is designed in a way that does not make it obvious if it has been properly secured. I do not count depending on only hearing an "audible click" as good design since the builder might be deaf. 

 

 

 

Late in the video when demonstrating the connection, with a mic with the gain pushed up and less than 2cm from the adapter the click is quieter than the click from the standard PCI-E connectors when building a computer.

 

nVidia is replacing any melted cables and cards without issue. Which is A)A good response and B) an implicit admission of a poor design.

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Posted
54 minutes ago, starsmine said:

image.thumb.png.1513ab48d61e9fed4880ed6536806433.pngimage.thumb.png.3de27c4c7750bf801711e0759195a3fe.png
@Poinkachuoh look, the "big companies" have been investigating.

Strangely GN managed to push out an in-depth video about it before their statement 😉

There is approximately 99% chance I edited my post

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ENGLISH IS NOT MY NATIVE LANGUAGE, NOT EVEN 2ND LANGUAGE. PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR ANY CONFUSION AND/OR MISUNDERSTANDING THAT MAY HAPPEN BECAUSE OF IT.

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29 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

Strangely GN managed to push out an in-depth video about it before their statement 😉

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

It looks like Nvidia waited for GN to do a deep dive investigation then took all the credit lol.

Y'all do know there are different standards between a technical engineering report that would need a technical writer to communicate it to the PR team, and a journalist reporting on their tests with all of a three person team. 

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21 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Y'all do know there are different standards between a technical engineering report that would need a technical writer to communicate it to the PR team, and a journalist reporting on their tests with all of a three person team. 

I wonder what the technical writer tried to communicate to the PR team before that statement then.
Because so far the last released statement is exactly the same like what the THREE person team concluded.

Actually... so far, to me the 3 person team report has more details. Which I usually expect from ... oh I don't know... a bigger team and/or a bigger budget and/or more tools ?, But who knows, maybe the bigger team tried to communicate using quantum physics language.

 

There is approximately 99% chance I edited my post

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ENGLISH IS NOT MY NATIVE LANGUAGE, NOT EVEN 2ND LANGUAGE. PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR ANY CONFUSION AND/OR MISUNDERSTANDING THAT MAY HAPPEN BECAUSE OF IT.

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24 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Y'all do know there are different standards between a technical engineering report that would need a technical writer to communicate it to the PR team, and a journalist reporting on their tests with all of a three person team. 

They released their report all of a day after GN's deep dive was published. They were sitting on it hoping things went away. Then the lawsuit in California happened and GN released a report showing definitively how it happened and that at the end of the day while technically user error it was due entirely to a poor design. 

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