Intel Innovation 2022 - Raptor Lake Announced, on shelves October 20

[tim0901]

4 hours ago, tim0901 said:

So Intel has updated their website and put up the details of their test systems for this chart (as they always do after these types of events):

 

Raptor Lake System:

Spoiler

13th Gen Intel® Core™ i9-13900K processor (RPL-S) PL1 set to 253W TDP, 24C32T (8P + 16E);

Motherboard: Intel Internal Validation board;

Memory: G.Skill DDR5 CL 28-34-34-89, 2X 16GB DDR5-5600MHz;

Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1TB;

Display Resolution: 1920x1080;

OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 22621.160;

Graphics card: NVIDIA RTX 3090 (FTW3),

Graphics driver: 516.59;

Motherboard BIOS version: RPLSFWI1.R00.3257.A00.2207020322 with ucode patch 0x107

 

Alder Lake System:

Spoiler

12th Gen Intel® Core™ i9-12900K processor (ADL-S) PL1 set to 241W TDP, 16C24T,

Motherboard: Z690-Apex;

Memory: G. Skill DDR5 CL 28-34-34-89,2X 16GB DDR5-4800 MHz;

Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1TB;

Display Resolution: 1920x1080;

OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 22621.160;

Graphics card: NVIDIA RTX 3090 (FTW3),

Graphics driver: 516.59;

Motherboard BIOS version: 1601

 

5950X:

Spoiler

AMD Ryzen™ 9 5950X processor PL1=105W TDP, 16C32T,

Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VIII;

Memory: G. Skill DDR4 CL 14-14-14-34, 2X 16GB DDR4-3200 MHz;

Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1TB;

Display Resolution: 1920x1080;

OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 22621.160;

Graphics card: NVIDIA RTX 3090 (FTW3),

Graphics driver: 516.59;

Motherboard BIOS version: 4201

 

5800X3D

Spoiler

AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X3D processor PL1=105W TDP, 8C16T,

Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VIII (WI-FI);

Memory: G. Skill DDR4 CL 14-14-14-34, 2X 16GB DDR4-3200 MT/s;

Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1TB;

Display Resolution: 1920x1080;

OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 22621.160;

Graphics card: NVIDIA RTX 3090 (FTW3),

Graphics driver: 516.59;

Motherboard BIOS version: 3201

The only potential issue I see with these test setups is the use of 3200MT/s DDR4 on the AMD systems, when 3600 is probably a better and more popular choice, but given that AMD only rate their processors as supporting up to 3200MT/s RAM anyway, I can't really find it in myself to complain. They stuck to the spec provided by the manufacturer - and to their credit they did the same for their own CPUs as well, even though 6000MT/s DDR5 is readily available at this point. Also the the 3200 kit they used is a decent CL 14 kit, which will perform better than the cheap CL 18 3600 kits that most people buy anyway. A CL16 3600 kit would perform better, but the difference is marginal and as previously mentioned it's technically out of spec.

 

And before anyone asks, yes the 105W PL1/TDP is the stock setting for the 5950X/5800X3D.

 

Also all the game tests on this slide were performed using their respective built-in benchmarking tools, rather than using screencap software like OBS, so the claims should - in theory - be very easy for third parties to reproduce.

 

Of course, this doesn't mean these tests are indicative of the CPU's overall performance - they are of course still very much cherry-picked benchmarks designed to show off the CPU in the best light possible - but at least they appear to have been conducted fairly and in good faith. I do appreciate Intel being this open about their benchmark systems as - afaik - no other manufacturer gives this much information about their test setups.

[Dracarris]

2 hours ago, Spotty said:

love how the 5800X3D beats the 13900K in some games so instead of including a column for it they just put a little notch above the 5950x. 

10/10 best ad for the 5800X3D I've seen all week, and that includes Ryzen 7000 launch.

Seriously what's up with that. So their new gen top-end chip can't beat the 5800X3D in quite a lot of workloads, yet they compare against the 5950x.

Really, Intel.

[tim0901]

3 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Seriously what's up with that. So their new gen top-end chip can't beat the 5800X3D in quite a lot of workloads, yet they compare against the 5950x.

Really, Intel.

At least Intel acknowledged it existed, unlike AMD.

 

[Dracarris]

3 minutes ago, tim0901 said:

At least Intel acknowledged it existed, unlike AMD.

Hm fair enough that's scummy. Why the heck did they not include it, after all as we learned today they had nothing to fear other than their own 5800X3D in some cases.

[Spotty]

7 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Seriously what's up with that. So their new gen top-end chip can't beat the 5800X3D in quite a lot of workloads, yet they compare against the 5950x.

Really, Intel.

I'm surprised Intel included the 5800X3D in the comparison. It isn't traditionally a direct competitor to the i9 CPU. Keep in mind it's also $150 cheaper than the i9 13900k. The reason for including it is I guess because it's AMD's best CPU for gaming (*prior to 7000 launch), and I'm slightly surprised that Intel is acknowledging that by including it in the comparison.

[tim0901]

1 minute ago, Dracarris said:

they had nothing to fear other than their own 5800X3D in some cases.

Exactly that reason. Because saying "hey our new product isn't as good as our old product" is probably the worst thing you could ever say as a marketing department. Of course ignoring it isn't exactly good marketing either as it comes off as scummy, and it's not like the media didn't realise either.

 

For Intel it's nowhere near as bad. The 13900K may not beat the 5800X3D in every test, but at least it's not being beaten by another Intel product. Losing to your competitor in some situations is fine.

[starsmine]

15 minutes ago, tim0901 said:

At least Intel acknowledged it existed, unlike AMD.

 

I mean, to amd its a different class of product. the 7950x replaces the 5950x. 
We will get the 7xx0x3d chips next quarter and they would compare it then I would think. 
to them it would be similar to comparing the 7950x to threadriper 5xxx products. 
 

[tim0901]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

The reason for including it is I guess because it's AMD's best CPU for gaming (*prior to 7000 launch), and I'm slightly surprised that Intel is acknowledging that by including it in the comparison.

I think it's a combination of showing off and damage control.

 

To ignore it entirely would spark plenty of comments to the likes of "WHY ISN'T INTEL COMPARING VS THE 5800X3D CLEARLY THEY'RE HIDING SOMETHING" which obviously they don't want, and it's not like the 5800X3D is slaughtering the 13900K according to these numbers. Being able to show that your CPU has similar gaming performance to the best gaming CPU on the market, as well as top-tier productivity performance is a pretty good position for a CPU to be in right now. With AMD (pre 7000 series) you had to make the choice between productivity performance and gaming performance. Intel is showing that's not the case with the 13900K.

[Spotty]

3 minutes ago, tim0901 said:

I think it's a combination of showing off and damage control.

 

To ignore it entirely would spark plenty of comments to the likes of "WHY ISN'T INTEL COMPARING VS THE 5800X3D CLEARLY THEY'RE HIDING SOMETHING" which obviously they don't want, and it's not like the 5800X3D is slaughtering the 13900K according to these numbers. Being able to show that your CPU has similar gaming performance to the best gaming CPU on the market, as well as top-tier productivity performance is a pretty good position for a CPU to be in right now. With AMD (pre 7000 series) you had to make the choice between productivity performance and gaming performance. Intel is showing that's not the case with the 13900K.

Fair point. I'd be interested to see how the 13700k compares to the 5800x3D. It's around the same price, and for gaming loads there probably isn't a huge gap between 13700k and 13900k.

It'll actually be interesting to see if AMD drops the price of the 5800X3D by $20-$30 after the launch of raptor lake to match the price of the 13700k.

[starsmine]

[Shzzit]

AMD is done lol.  GG

[Shzzit]

3 hours ago, tim0901 said:

I think it's a combination of showing off and damage control.

 

To ignore it entirely would spark plenty of comments to the likes of "WHY ISN'T INTEL COMPARING VS THE 5800X3D CLEARLY THEY'RE HIDING SOMETHING" which obviously they don't want, and it's not like the 5800X3D is slaughtering the 13900K according to these numbers. Being able to show that your CPU has similar gaming performance to the best gaming CPU on the market, as well as top-tier productivity performance is a pretty good position for a CPU to be in right now. With AMD (pre 7000 series) you had to make the choice between productivity performance and gaming performance. Intel is showing that's not the case with the 13900K.

Funny how these same people didn’t say nothing about AMD hiding 5800 results from there 7950x benchmarks.  But  when intel actually shows it they pounce and attack.

 

 

[starsmine]

53 minutes ago, Shzzit said:

Funny how these same people didn’t say nothing about AMD hiding 5800 results from there 7950x benchmarks.  But  when intel actually shows it they pounce and attack.

 

 

Half because 7800x3d comes out next quarter
Half because of that, the 7XXX chips from amd dont have to compete with the 5800x3d BECAUSE of that.
Half because its the way Intel showed it in such a reluctant matter its just memeable. 

[thechinchinsong]

Intel is gonna probably by 10-15% better in gaming with their P-cores and seems to be better in multi-threaded tasks due to icnreased E-cores. Their platform costs also seems a lot lower and AMD probably won't have much of an answer except price cuts and 3d-vcache sometime next year. Power consumption and heat seems like a negligible difference between them (at least in the US where electricity prices aren't blowing up due to geo-politics). Was originally gonna upgrade to an AM5 system since I got an rx-6900xt for cheap, but at this point, I might as well get raptor lake. Cheaper on the r5/i5 end overall and probably better performance overall.

 

Really seems Intel is coming back swinging. The E-core/P-core split along with whatever other architecture/process changes they've been doing really seem innovative. It sort of feels like a reversal of 4 or 5 years ago when AMD was innovating with their infinity fabric, "glued-together" chip approach, and a switch to TSMC nodes, although Intel was never really struggling like AMD was back then.

[StDragon]

I read that as...

 

11 hours ago, emosun said:

so are the e cores just for power efficiency sake? I feel like the space-heater would be better suited with more p cores and just skipping the whole complicated efficiency thing

 

[Shzzit]

You guys see the leak of a 32 core intel cpu? So we might be getting HEDT series again. 

 

The specific SKU should feature 34 Raptor Cove cores, 68 threads, 68 MB of L2 cache, 63.75 MB of L3 cache, 8-channel DDR5, and 80 PCIe Gen 5 + DMI lanes.

 

The lineup is expected to feature as many as 56 cores, 112 threads, 112 PCIe Gen 5.0 lanes and will be compatible with the FIshhawk Falls / Eagle Stream (LGA 4677) platform

 

 

Along with up coming 13900ks stock 6ghz.

 

Also seen some 7800mhz cl34 ddr5.

 

So exiting.

 

[leadeater]

Just now, Shzzit said:

You guys see the leak of a 32 core intel cpu? So we might be getting HEDT series again. 

High E-Core Desktop? haha 

[Shzzit]

Just now, leadeater said:

High E-Core Desktop? haha 

Lol no idea just heard about it.  Added some details on my last post lolz

[porina]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intels-unannounced-34-core-raptor-lake-cpus-displayed-on-wafer

 

Intel possibly unintentionally shows off 34 core Raptor Lake wafer. Tin foil hat wearers might say it is intentional to get talk going on it, but more likely someone goofed. The label on it says Raptor Lake-S which implies client, not server. It also says 34C yet only 31 possible candidates are visible. Hoping it might indicate return of HEDT but wouldn't be surprised if it is more workstation focused.

[porina]

4 minutes ago, Shzzit said:

You guys see the leak of a 32 core intel cpu? So we might be getting HEDT series again. 

 

The specific SKU should feature 34 Raptor Cove cores, 68 threads, 68 MB of L2 cache, 63.75 MB of L3 cache, 8-channel DDR5, and 80 PCIe Gen 5 + DMI lanes.

Ooh, we posted (almost) same time. Where did you get those extra stats from?

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Shzzit said:

Lol no idea just heard about it.  Added some details on my last post lolz

Where did you hear this, that just sounds like one of the upcoming Xeon product lines. I just don't see Intel pushing 8 channel DDR5 unless it's the now changed and only semi understood 2 channels per DIMM so "4 DIMMs". If it's 8 DIMMs then nah can't see that happening outside of Xeon.

[Shzzit]

3 minutes ago, porina said:

Ooh, we posted (almost) same time. Where did you get those extra stats from?

Hahaha nice,  wccft article about it. 
 

https://wccftech.com/intel-34-core-raptor-lake-s-cpu-die-shown-off-hinting-at-possible-hedt-launch/

[leadeater]

5 minutes ago, porina said:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intels-unannounced-34-core-raptor-lake-cpus-displayed-on-wafer

 

Intel possibly unintentionally shows off 34 core Raptor Lake wafer. Tin foil hat wearers might say it is intentional to get talk going on it, but more likely someone goofed. The bale on it says Raptor Lake-S which implies client, not server. It also says 34C yet only 31 possible candidates are visible. Hoping it might indicate return of HEDT but wouldn't be surprised if it is more workstation focused.

 

 

Quote

Additionally, the 34 cores appear interconnected with a mesh, like the Ice Lake models (third album image), and not the familiar ring bus we see with Intel's desktop PC chips. We can also make out eight DDR5 memory controllers and what appear to be UPI blocks, all of which are not on the standard desktop PC models. 

This is likely what is known as the Sapphire Rapids MCC die, but with Raptor Lake branding for the workstation market. We're working on further clarification.

Yea sounds Xeon, however that said HEDT used to be Xeon dies with UPI disabled so maybe Intel is going back to that for HEDT.

[Shzzit]

Just now, leadeater said:

 

 

Yea sounds Xeon, however that said HEDT used to be Xeon dies with UPI disabled so maybe Intel is going back to that for HEDT.

Either way it’s pretty exiting to me.  So many new things coming out.   

[porina]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yea sounds Xeon, however that said HEDT used to be Xeon dies with UPI disabled so maybe Intel is going back to that for HEDT.

The thing is the wafer is labelled Raptor Lake-S, not Sapphire Rapids-S if it were directly based on that. Also previous HEDT were based off -E or -EP variations. There is some internal reorganisation inside Intel so maybe these CPUs are now under a different group leading to the new designation?

 

BTW I'm blind and apparently can count this early in the morning, I didn't see the extra blobs on the bottom of the die. There are 34 blobs.