[Updated] Far Out Stuff - Apple September 2022 Event Thread, Expectations, Reality and stuff.

[Commodus]

Can we discuss more aspects of the hardware now that the reviews are live?

 

It's basically what we expected: great if you've been pining for an always-on display (better than what you usually see on Android, I'd add), and Apple's use of the cutout is actually quite practical. But you won't rush to upgrade if you've been using an iPhone 12 or newer, and it might make more sense to wait for the iPhone 15's expected switch to USB-C and rumored telescope zoom lens.

 

The one surprise I've seen so far: Apple seems to be patching up a few of the deficiencies in its camera processing. Mrwhosetheboss said the 14 Pro thrashed the Galaxy S22 Ultra in a comparison test, including areas where Samsung has historically done well (like portraits and selfies). You get the Ultra if you crave 10X zoom or 108MP shots; you get the iPhone for most everything else.

 

 

[AnonymousGuy]

5 hours ago, Commodus said:

Can we discuss more aspects of the hardware now that the reviews are live?

 

It's basically what we expected: great if you've been pining for an always-on display (better than what you usually see on Android, I'd add), and Apple's use of the cutout is actually quite practical. But you won't rush to upgrade if you've been using an iPhone 12 or newer, and it might make more sense to wait for the iPhone 15's expected switch to USB-C and rumored telescope zoom lens.

 

The one surprise I've seen so far: Apple seems to be patching up a few of the deficiencies in its camera processing. Mrwhosetheboss said the 14 Pro thrashed the Galaxy S22 Ultra in a comparison test, including areas where Samsung has historically done well (like portraits and selfies). You get the Ultra if you crave 10X zoom or 108MP shots; you get the iPhone for most everything else.

 

Camera quality has pretty much been most of the upgrades to iPhone over the past several generations, so I'm not surprised.  

 

Re: USB-C as someone already in the ecosystem...I really don't look forward to it.  I don't care about faster data transfer, or having to go buy a bunch of good USB-C to USB-C cables to support fast charging.  Or the extra lengths and shit I already have in lightning form.  I guess at some point it'll be like a bandaid to rip off but in general I hate the feeling of flimsiness from USB-C connectors.  Feels like the shitty hookiness from Micro USB.

[vetali]

The MKBHD video mentioned at the end that the back glass is easier to repair now. Not many details other than that. Will have to wait a few weeks for an ifixit score.

 

One neat thing I saw was Apple Maps supports using the AOD when navigating. I also see varying things about the AOD battery life hit. Some are saying its negligible, others are saying its a noticeable hit. I don't know when reviewers got their phones but it usually takes 3-4 days for the phone to adapt to uses and improve the battery usage. So that could explain the differences with AOD battery life considering the battery app doesn't track it.

 

Screenshots also "hide" the "dynamic island" when it isn't being used. So its the same as with the notch. However when the island is being used, it will display it in the screenshot.

[Ultraforce]

2 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Camera quality has pretty much been most of the upgrades to iPhone over the past several generations, so I'm not surprised.  

 

Re: USB-C as someone already in the ecosystem...I really don't look forward to it.  I don't care about faster data transfer, or having to go buy a bunch of good USB-C to USB-C cables to support fast charging.  Or the extra lengths and shit I already have in lightning form.  I guess at some point it'll be like a bandaid to rip off but in general I hate the feeling of flimsiness from USB-C connectors.  Feels like the shitty hookiness from Micro USB.

I do think the main reason I personally am excited for USB-C is that the family iphones and iPads are the only thing that uses lightning and we never bothered to have anything other then the bad default cable. With USB-C standardization within the house can happen to some extent.

[wanderingfool2]

10 hours ago, Dracarris said:

I don't get all this "several companies have been working towards this" - yeah, but Apple brought it to market first, period. Since when did it become relevant whether competitors have been working on a similar feature? We always measured companies at what's been available for the general public, and not what has been cooking in an R&D lab. This line of reasoning is just bonkers IMHO.

Huawei beat them to it.  I'm merely stating that people are acting like Apple is god and is the driving force for others to emulate.  The fact is, if lots of companies are working towards doing the same thing, they are all announcing products at the same time it's not fair to give Apple credit as though they created the industry.

 

10 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Technologically speaking the Android/Starlink thing and the current Apple thing are quite different. Starlink (will) use 5G bands so they launch satellites that are tailored towards usage in phones, while Apple makes existing Satellites and bands usable without the usual bulk and overhead of existing sat phones.

Also, since Starlink will use 5G bands, there is absolutely no problem in making this available on iOS, too.

I have a feeling that Apple might drag their feet though (claiming some reason why they can't yet, until they don't have a choice to).  After all it's a competing service and one that they are literally contractually on the hook for maybe even hundreds of million dollars.

 

It's  not really possible to say that Apple's solution is completely difference.  Starlink decided to go with the mobile band to keep backwards compatibility (and like to keep the traffic distinct from what they intend to run the sats on).  Really the biggest difference between Starlink v Apples is that Apple requires additional hardware to make it capable of the same things Starlink intends to...but ultimately it likely boils down to nothing they innovated...and at the core of things it will be very similar in concept to Starlink's service.  (Again, the biggest change is like that Starlink's sat. antenna size makes it possible to do it without hardware changes)

 

  

9 hours ago, Commodus said:

iPhone 15's expected switch to USB-C and rumored telescope zoom lens.

Honestly, iPhones and lightning connectors aren't that bad.  I think it's better than the USB-C aside from the data transfer...but realistically transfer via cable I think is becoming more and more rare these days.  Having to manage cell phones at work before, USB-C was quite an issue when people got small twigs or parts stuck in it (it even happens to me)...and then it's a lot more annoying trying to clean out the connector.  (Plus the issue of people who run over the USB-C cord...don't realize they slightly crimped the connector, try using it to charge their phone and end up breaking the inside center tab of their phone)

 

The lightning connector, while I think dated and a bit fragile, is still better in that extra cords are easy and cheap to source and the connector in the phone is easier to clean.

[Roswell]

7 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

The lightning connector, while I think dated and a bit fragile

The fragile part is intended. Rather than breaking the phone, you break the cable. USB-C is the opposite, you break the phone.

[Commodus]

11 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Camera quality has pretty much been most of the upgrades to iPhone over the past several generations, so I'm not surprised.  

 

Re: USB-C as someone already in the ecosystem...I really don't look forward to it.  I don't care about faster data transfer, or having to go buy a bunch of good USB-C to USB-C cables to support fast charging.  Or the extra lengths and shit I already have in lightning form.  I guess at some point it'll be like a bandaid to rip off but in general I hate the feeling of flimsiness from USB-C connectors.  Feels like the shitty hookiness from Micro USB.

USB-C connector quality seems to vary a bit. I've liked Apple's so far — plugging in to a MacBook feels very solid. Hopefully Apple has been thinking about that experience for future iPhones.

[Commodus]

7 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Honestly, iPhones and lightning connectors aren't that bad.  I think it's better than the USB-C aside from the data transfer...but realistically transfer via cable I think is becoming more and more rare these days.  Having to manage cell phones at work before, USB-C was quite an issue when people got small twigs or parts stuck in it (it even happens to me)...and then it's a lot more annoying trying to clean out the connector.  (Plus the issue of people who run over the USB-C cord...don't realize they slightly crimped the connector, try using it to charge their phone and end up breaking the inside center tab of their phone)

 

The lightning connector, while I think dated and a bit fragile, is still better in that extra cords are easy and cheap to source and the connector in the phone is easier to clean.

Agreed on Lightning; the main issue is just the dog-slow data speed. It's just becoming a particularly sore point when Apple is pitching photo and video features that can chew up massive amounts of space. WiFi 6 softens the blow a bit, but not everyone can or wants to transfer footage wirelessly.

[Dracarris]

8 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Huawei beat them to it.  I'm merely stating that people are acting like Apple is god and is the driving force for others to emulate.  The fact is, if lots of companies are working towards doing the same thing, they are all announcing products at the same time it's not fair to give Apple credit as though they created the industry.

No. What Huawei did is yet another 5G band and not the satellite connectivity that Apple implemented.

[wanderingfool2]

6 hours ago, Roswell said:

The fragile part is intended. Rather than breaking the phone, you break the cable. USB-C is the opposite, you break the phone.

Yea, that's why the rest of my sentence was regarding it's easier to replace a cable than the phone   Although, I do feel that if they had designed it slightly thicker they might have gotten slightly better longevity...with that said, yea the lightning connector barring the speed is I think superior to USB-C.

 

That isn't even talking about how USB-C has so many different charging standards...looks at the Louis video where he plugs in different chargers and gets different charge results.

 

6 hours ago, Commodus said:

Agreed on Lightning; the main issue is just the dog-slow data speed. It's just becoming a particularly sore point when Apple is pitching photo and video features that can chew up massive amounts of space. WiFi 6 softens the blow a bit, but not everyone can or wants to transfer footage wirelessly.

Yea, the slow speed is a bottleneck for sure...but I really do prefer slower transfer speeds vs having a connector that can get things jammed in it (what's worse is when it gets jammed in the cable...so you have to clean out both. 

 

6 hours ago, Dracarris said:

No. What Huawei did is yet another 5G band and not the satellite connectivity that Apple implemented.

Mate 50 communicates with the BeiDou satellite.  So yes, it very much is pretty much what Apple announced and is out as well.

[Dracarris]

48 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Mate 50 communicates with the BeiDou satellite.  So yes, it very much is pretty much what Apple announced and is out as well.

BeiDou is a navigation system with coverage limited to China? How is this similar to anything that Apple has released?

[suicidalfranco]

5 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

BeiDou is a navigation system with coverage limited to China? How is this similar to anything that Apple has released?

https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/6/23339717/huawei-mate-50-pro-satellite-text-china-beidou

 

Quote

The Mate 50 and Mate 50 Pro will be able to send short texts and utilize navigation thanks to China’s global BeiDou satellite network, allowing for communication in areas without cellular signal.

no, please keep the blindfold on, only Apple can do things. Everyone one can only copy Apple, never do R&D and release them before Apple cause they have spies inside Apple HQ and take advantage of Apple R&D's end result.

[Dracarris]

12 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

no, please keep the blindfold on, only Apple can do things. Everyone one can only copy Apple, never do R&D and release them before Apple cause they have spies inside Apple HQ and take advantage of Apple R&D's end result.

A yeah the usual salty rambling. Here's a quote from the article

Quote

And based on Huawei’s description of the system, it looks like the Mate 50 phones will only be able to send texts by satellite, and won’t be able to receive them.

In general there is very few information available about what this can do and what not. For the iphones we have a clear idea of how it will work and e.g., that there will be feedback from the emergency responders when they received the message and will send help. I also find it quite strange that I couldn't find any information about this messaging ability of the BeiDou constellation, all they talk about is navigation.

 

Is the orbit/distance to earth comparable to what Apple has to bridge with the GlobalStar constellation? And AFAIK Globalstar indeed offers actual global coverage of the earth while BeiDou (and this phone) are China-only.

[suicidalfranco]

12 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

A yeah the usual salty rambling. Here's a quote from the article

In general there is very few information available about what this can do and what not. For the iphones we have a clear idea of how it will work and e.g., that there will be feedback from the emergency responders when they received the message and will send help. I also find it quite strange that I couldn't find any information about this messaging ability of the BeiDou constellation, all they talk about is navigation.

 

Is the orbit/distance to earth comparable to what Apple has to bridge with the GlobalStar constellation? And AFAIK Globalstar indeed offers actual global coverage of the earth while BeiDou (and this phone) are China-only.

https://insidegnss.com/enhanced-beidou-short-message-service-displayed-at-intl-summit/

 

Quote

the enhanced version’s ‘low power consumption’ feature enables mobile phones to send emergency messages through BeiDou satellites even without ground mobile communication signals,” said Li Jingyuan, director of the BeiDou short message team at National University of Defense Technology (NUDT).

 

“The information transmission rate of the enhanced version has increased 10 times, which means pictures and voice messages can be sent out quickly,” Li added.

Keep being the corporate fanatic that you are and please keep spreading fud

 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213426

 

muh global

[Dracarris]

32 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

Keep being the corporate fanatic that you are and please keep spreading fud

Keep being the ignorant hater. GlobalStar has a global coverage, at this very point in time the SOS service on iphones is limited to NA due to the required ground infrastructure (relay centers). It will most probably soon be extended to much larger areas.

 

While the Chinese constellation plain not covers much more than China, so there goes your global coverage for the forseable future.

 

Judging from the article you linked it looks like they had to upgrade the satellites for this to work without the usual bulky antennas while Apples service seems to work with the already existing configuration, however info about that is pretty slim atm.

 

But sure, what Huawei did is just the same, what am I saying, it's 3x greater!

[suicidalfranco]

15 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Keep being the ignorant hater. GlobalStar has a global coverage, at this very point in time the SOS service on iphones is limited to NA due to the required ground infrastructure (relay centers). It will most probably soon be extended to marge larger areas.

 

While the Chinese constellation plain not covers much more than China, so there goes your global coverage for the forseable future.

 

But sure, what Huawei did is just the same, what am I saying, it's 3x greater!

 

http://en.beidou.gov.cn/WHATSNEWS/201812/t20181227_16837.html

 

Quote

Today, together with other documents, we are releasing the new BDS Open Service Performance Standard (version 2.0). After being tested and evaluated globally, the BDS service performance standards are as follows:

 

 

 

System service coverage: global

 

Positioning accuracy: 10 meters horizontal and 10 meters vertical (95% confidence level);

 

Velocity accuracy: 0.2 meters per second (95% confidence level);

 

Timing accuracy: 20 nanoseconds (95% confidence level);

 

System service availability: better than 95%.

 

 

 

of which in the Asia-Pacific region, the positioning accuracies are 5 meters horizontally and 5 meters vertically (95% confidence level). The BDS services are available worldwide, including the “Belt and Road” countries and regions.

 

 

 

who's the ignorant hater again? ain't the one here spreading fud

 

 

[Dracarris]

5 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

who's the ignorant hater again? ain't the one here spreading fud

That's their navigation system, at least that's all what the article is talking about. But whatever I am sure their service will be much cooler and better than what Apple has to offer and they introduced it way ahead of Apple, available for years already.

 

Any technical details on the non-navigation part of BeiDou and coverage/phones for that outside of China would be highly appreciated, as I find the current info about those aspects quite sparse and nebulous tbf.

[wanderingfool2]

14 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

That's their navigation system, at least that's all what the article is talking about. But whatever I am sure their service will be much cooler and better than what Apple has to offer and they introduced it way ahead of Apple, available for years already.

 

Any technical details on the non-navigation part of BeiDou and coverage/phones for that outside of China would be highly appreciated, as I find the current info about those aspects quite sparse and nebulous tbf.

You are completely arguing in bad faith really.  You keep acting as though Apple is some god who is the one bringing this to the market as if they are the only ones who are smart enough to deploy it.  It is quite simply put, are they the first to offer satellite texting?  No, satellite phones have been around for a long time.  Are they the first to distribute it in the form factor of a phone?  No, Mate 50 beat them to that punch.  The fact is, it's exactly what I said earlier.  There are lots of companies all working to get this working, and people like you are the ones that keep holding Apple up as if they are the ones who will make it the standard.  The fact is they are merely implementing a technology that others have been working towards as well.

[suicidalfranco]

6 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

That's their navigation system, at least that's all what the article is talking about. But whatever I am sure their service will be much cooler and better than what Apple has to offer and they introduced it way ahead of Apple, available for years already.

 

Any technical details on the non-navigation part of BeiDou and coverage/phones for that outside of China would be highly appreciated, as I find the current info about those aspects quite sparse and nebulous tbf.

the SMS service has been available since 2012 on the BDS2 system

Quote

BeiDou Navigation Satellite System (BeiDou-2)

The Initial Operational Service of BeiDou System was officially declared in December 2011, for which the initial performances as reported in the Munich Satellite Navigation Summit of 2012 were:

• Service coverage area: regional
• Positioning accuracy: 25 meters horizontally adn 30 meters vertically
• Timing accuracy of 50 ns
• Velocity accuracy of 0.4 m/s

These performances are being improved as the number of satellites in orbit increase and the user segment evolves.

The global BeiDou system will be built by 2020 and it is being designed to offer the following performances for each BeiDou Services^{[5][1][3][4][6]}:

• Open service: a free service for civilian users with positioning accuracy better than 10 meters, velocity accuracy better than 0.2 m/s and timing accuracy better than 50 nanoseconds, considering 95% probability.

• Authorized service: a licensed service with higher accuracy even in complex situations for authorized and military users only;

• Wide area differential positioning service: with positioning accuracy of sub-meter and meter for dual-frequency and single-frequency receivers;

• Short message service (SMS): up to 120 Chinese characters.

https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/BeiDou_Performances

 

BDS3 is an iterative upgrade on BDS2 and adds global, BDS2 but better

Quote

Aside from standard navigation, positioning and timing service, the system also offers global and regional short message communication, international search-and-rescue, precise point positioning, satellite based augmentation and ground-based augmentation services, Chen said.

Quote

In addition, search and rescue transponders are installed on six Medium Earth Orbit satellites, offering help to international commercial and civilian users, he said.

In terms of global and regional SMS services, Chen said trials for global SMS service are underway, adding that there are plans to roll out smartphones with built-in regional SMS functions by the end of 2021.

China will continue to promote the international development and application of BDS-3, Chen said.

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202109/10/WS613b17a6a310efa1bd66eb48.html

[Dracarris]

16 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

No, Mate 50 beat them to that punch. 

Yeah, they announced it a full day ahead of Apple. Are any of the phones actually out with that feature? Are there any reports out that tell us whether any of the services is actually working and if yes, what the experience is (both Apple and Huawei)?

 

We'll see who'll get an actually usable service out first and how the serviceable percentage of the earths surface of each develops.

 

Apart from the usage for navigation the product page of the Mate 50 makes no notice of any BeiDou or Satellite-based text messaging capability.

 

In any case the different approaches are interesting. BDS basically was Chinese GPS at it's core where a subpart of the constellation was retrofitted with some communication abilities while GlobalStar always was a communication system.

[suicidalfranco]

14 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Yeah, they announced it a full day ahead of Apple. Are any of the phones actually out with that feature? Are there any reports out that tell us whether any of the services is actually working and if yes, what the experience is?

 

We'll see who'll get an actually usable service out first and how the serviceable percentage of the earths surface of each develops.

if anything can be inferred from the launch trailler, it will work just like Apple's. Wand your phone around, hope to connect, send sos

[RedRound2]

On 9/14/2022 at 4:16 PM, suicidalfranco said:

Welp if you value your safety and since it's been used as an example of Apple grandiuos innovation in this thread,

 

SOS button, anywhere in the globe

Two way Texting anything you want from anywhere in the world

Send your coordinates to anyone fron anywhere in the world

Maps and land topography

And 35 hours of battery life or 200 hours depending on the mode

And no magic wand waving o find the satellite.

If you value your life during your outings isn't this kind of device a better investment than carrying your pretty iPhone with 10 hour battery in to the wild?

Oh, I forgot. This ian't innovative cause it ain't shiny and doesn't take unrealistic pictures of reality.

Any you apparently somehow seeing past the form factor of the device and ignorant about the market share of the said device.

"Sure, smartphones aren't innovative back in 2007s because we've had brick phones from 1980s that could also call"

 

Fucking nobody who buys this, except the kind of people who trek Everest. And guess what 99% of the other explorers and trekkers don't own this but are much more likely to own an iPhone. And an iPhone is something you carry every time along with you, no matter what.

 

Also, if you didn't know the iPhone also has the ability to report location in Find my using the Satellite comms.

 

Looks like all the blind raging haters have no concept of engineering or physics to understand the technology behind this rather than parroting phase shift directional beam forming tech we've had and used for past decade extensively on everything

 

Also, some people are bringing up Starlink. Elon has already shared on Twitter that they've been working with Apple to integrate, and he also said that its much better to have the phone be aware that its communicating with a satellite for a better experience than have starlinks act as Mobile cell towers. And no Apple's tech and Starlinks tech are not the same thing.

 

About the cost. It costs extra to have satellite connectivity (even the sat phones y'all keep showing off also has rates associated with it). But Apple's implementation is different and them implementing this would I believe cause for a legislation down the line to make SOS services free (the way Apple implemented). And heck maybe in couple of years with improved satellites and phone designs, we could also have ultra-low bandwidth connectivity like texting all free through satellites (which would of course be a huge win for all consumers - but no lets all buy satellite phones and 'plan' an emergency)

[wanderingfool2]

40 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

About the cost. It costs extra to have satellite connectivity (even the sat phones y'all keep showing off also has rates associated with it). But Apple's implementation is different and them implementing this would I believe cause for a legislation down the line to make SOS services free (the way Apple implemented).

You truly are wearing rose colored glasses.  Mark my words, if Apple has their way they will be charging a fee for it if they can.  You can't be blind to the fact that Apple's announcement said it will be free for 2 years...which implies they want to charge for the service later (but they can't now because they know no one would accept it in the state that it's being initially released as).

 

What is going to keep this feature as a free feature is the fact that carriers like T-Mobile are going to be launching their version free of cost.

 

48 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Also, some people are bringing up Starlink. Elon has already shared on Twitter that they've been working with Apple to integrate, and he also said that its much better to have the phone be aware that its communicating with a satellite for a better experience than have starlinks act as Mobile cell towers. And no Apple's tech and Starlinks tech are not the same thing.

The responses are to say that there isn't any "special" about Apple doing it.  People who keep saying things like Apple is making this the standard or that Apple is the one pushing the industry on this, or other similar.  Of course hardware dedicated is better, but the basic functionality will still work with cells that don't have it...here's the thing, most people don't switch their phones ever few years.  Starlink is brought up because it shows that Apple isn't isolated in working on this, and that this push isn't just an Apple thing.

[RedRound2]

58 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

You truly are wearing rose colored glasses.  Mark my words, if Apple has their way they will be charging a fee for it if they can.  You can't be blind to the fact that Apple's announcement said it will be free for 2 years...which implies they want to charge for the service later (but they can't now because they know no one would accept it in the state that it's being initially released as).

Your words are based on some assumptions. Do you have any precedence of Apple charging for a feature. And no, those charges are transferred to Globestar, because they sure as heck isn't giving 80% of their satellite bandwidth for free for Apple. You either lack some critical thinking skills or you're just too far down in 'I hate anythign and everything Apple bandwagon"

 

For a short term, Apple will also have some expense that they will be bearing completely, setting up relay centers. But within a year or two, these standard SOS features and responses will directly be added to the govt SOS response agency and hence it will become free. So if anything, Apple has extra costs that they will be bearing a lot for next two years for all iPhone 14 owners

 

Also give me some precedence of Apple charging a fee for an iPhone feature that has no justification of sorts. Because I own Apple products and I dont pay Apple a dime every month of every year (iCloud is the only thing I can think of where they have only 5GB free available - but honestly its not a big deal when I can use other cloud services that offer a better deal)

58 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

What is going to keep this feature as a free feature is the fact that carriers like T-Mobile are going to be launching their version free of cost.

And how do you know that. Does T-mobile or Starlink have a history of giving stuff for free? Starlink itself is quite expensive for stationary internet connection. Requires of so much upfront capital. I dont know what rose coloured lens you are wearing for T-mobile and Starlink to give their services for free or do it at a complete loss

58 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

The responses are to say that there isn't any "special" about Apple doing it.  People who keep saying things like Apple is making this the standard or that Apple is the one pushing the industry on this, or other similar.  Of course hardware dedicated is better, but the basic functionality will still work with cells that don't have it...here's the thing, most people don't switch their phones ever few years.  Starlink is brought up because it shows that Apple isn't isolated in working on this, and that this push isn't just an Apple thing.

What 'responses'? Can you literally quote me anything or find any substantial evidence for anything you say apart from your assumptions and opinions. Time and time again I have given you the same. Elon's tweet literally says Apple engineers know what they're doing and they're working together on it.

 

Stop saying that Starlink and GlobeStar satellite are the same thing. They are not, good god. They work on different tech. I get it you have literally no experience in engineering or physics but stop being so ignorant about everything. Its two different approaches to a same problem. But Starlink requires a lot of capacity and capital (Starlink v2 is nowhere near close (and in turn depends on Starship which also isnt anywhere near close to launch) to launch and based on Elon's timeline we can easily add a minimum of +2-3 years to his time)

[wanderingfool2]

27 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Your words are based on some assumptions. Do you have any precedence of Apple charging for a feature. And no, those charges are transferred to Globestar, because they sure as heck isn't giving 80% of their satellite bandwidth for free for Apple. You either lack some critical thinking skills or you're just too far down in 'I hate anythign and everything Apple bandwagon"

They state that it's free for 2 years, like I said, and you proceed to go on about using 80% of bandwidth (it's actually 85%).  My "assumptions" are based on well reasoned logic along with things such as the SEC filing.  A company says it's only free for 2 years, and it's simple to see that to run the service Apple is going to have to be paying millions.

 

So again, if lets say they don't get the competition from Starlink, mark my words they are going to be charging people to use it.

 

38 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

For a short term, Apple will also have some expense that they will be bearing completely, setting up relay centers. But within a year or two, these standard SOS features and responses will directly be added to the govt SOS response agency and hence it will become free. So if anything, Apple has extra costs that they will be bearing a lot for next two years for all iPhone 14 owners

And you are trying to make me out as one making assumptions.  Guess what, if the government decides to lets say setup a response system like that, it will use a designated frequencies...just like how GPS has it's own frequency so it can be regulated.  Then guess what, those iPhone 14's won't work with that system and depending on the deal with GlobalStar Apple might still be stuck paying for that 85% of bandwidth.

 

In the SEC filing it makes it quite clear that Apple will pretty much need to eventually charge for the service.  They are responsible for 95% of all new satellites launched cost.  They reserve 85% of the bandwidth, GlobalStar is literally abandoning $175 million in assets with this deal.  Based on their 2023 numbers, it implies they expect to gain about $85 - $100 million just in 2023 and more in later years.  So again, without competition Apple will definitely start charging for the feature (even if it is bundled up in a subscription of something else)

 

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

And how do you know that. Does T-mobile or Starlink have a history of giving stuff for free? Starlink itself is quite expensive for stationary internet connection. Requires of so much upfront capital. I dont know what rose coloured lens you are wearing for T-mobile and Starlink to give their services for free or do it at a complete loss

It was literally stated that it is going to be offered as a free service to T-Mobile customers.  Also for satellite internet, Starlink is crazily affordable for what you get.  For Starlink the additional satellite cost is likely almost nothing as the hardware already would exist on the satellite and they have to launch the sat anyways, and they are making the bulk of the payment for those sat. not by this but rather by commercial clients (cruise ships, airlines) [which they get $5000/month] and then starlink customers.  T-Mobile is just like getting free funding.  On T-Mobiles side of things, they get the benefit of being able to say if you are with T-Mobile you get this added feature which other carriers don't have...and so they get the subscribers money.  Essentially it's a customer retention and attraction scheme...the added cost is outweighed by additional clients they get.  They also benefit when other carriers "offer" the feature through t-mobile (so they get the extra fees there)

 

The tl;dr; it's not too much of an added cost for Starlink to include this eventually and for T-Mobile they benefit from getting extra press, customers, etc.  By offering it free T-Mobile stands to make more money essentially.

 

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

Stop saying that Starlink and GlobeStar satellite are the same thing. They are not, good god. They work on different tech.

They are a lot closer than you would think, the biggest difference is likely a directional antenna for signalling on the phone and the frequency they operate.  Software wise though they likely work quite similar.  They both have to compensate for the speed of the satellite and have a different signalling...but that's a software driven then.

 

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

What 'responses'? Can you literally quote me anything or find any substantial evidence for anything you say apart from your assumptions and opinions. Time and time again I have given you the same. Elon's tweet literally says Apple engineers know what they're doing and they're working together on it.

Back to being illiterate I see in terms of what I have been saying.  The simple fact is I'm bringing up Starlink, I'm bringing up Mate 50 because of the simple fact to show that Apple isn't the one that is making it a standard.  You act as though Apple is the one who is leading the charge and that Apple is the one that's changing the minds of the politicians for these features.

 

The simple fact is Apple isn't doing anything special with this SOS feature, there has been a bunch of companies that have been working towards this for years (and others that are trying to get it working within the 5G spectrum as well..waiting for FCC approval).

3 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

But Apple's implementation is different and them implementing this would I believe cause for a legislation down the line to make SOS services free (the way Apple implemented)

On 9/8/2022 at 12:06 PM, RedRound2 said:

It's a nice feature to have for emergency. And that takes a lot of skill, R&D and engineering to pull off initially. But since someone has figured it out now, I can fucking guarantee you, all phones will be capable of this in like 4-5 years' time, making it a standard safety feature - similar to how Apple has done literally a million times to the industry now.

You wanted quotes, here are your quotes of giving Apple the credit, when there are a bunch of alternatives that have been in the works.  Apple doesn't deserve the credit for making this a standard feature.  It has been announced by t-mobile/starlink, Android is adding it, Huawei literally has a phone out that allows an SOS texting.  So stop making Apple out to be the hero....trying to