[Updated] Far Out Stuff - Apple September 2022 Event Thread, Expectations, Reality and stuff.

[Rauten]

Am I missing something?

Based on what I've seen of the whole satellite thing, it's basically "waggle your phone until you barely have enough connectivity to barely send a super simple, pre-formatted message to emergency services".

 

If that's the extent of what's being offered, how in the world is it being sold as "satellite connectivity"?!

 

It would be like phone manufacturers saying they have full carrier connectivity to all carriers regardless of your SIM or data plan, because you can do emergency 911/112 calls through their networks.

 

I mean, sure, it's a cool nifty trick, but that's all it seems to be? And only useful in extreme, niche situations? You would need to be out in the field with nothing above you blocking "Line of Sight" to the satellite, but at the same time outside cellphone tower range, in an emergency, but an emergency that would allow you to waggle the phone to search for the right angle.

Just seems like such a fringe case, and yet it was made to be such a huge deal?

 

Again, maybe I am missing something; if so, please do correct me.

[rikitikitavi]

24 minutes ago, Rauten said:

I mean, sure, it's a cool nifty trick, but that's all it seems to be? And only useful in extreme, niche situations? You would need to be out in the field with nothing above you blocking "Line of Sight" to the satellite, but at the same time outside cellphone tower range, in an emergency, but an emergency that would allow you to waggle the phone to search for the right angle.

Just seems like such a fringe case, and yet it was made to be such a huge deal?

When you hike it is common to be out of range of the cell towers, while still having an access to open space.

Or even driving somewhere in the country far away from urban areas.

 

The 'desert' ad is an exaggeration - however it is always nice to have a backup.

[rikitikitavi]

27 minutes ago, Rauten said:

Based on what I've seen of the whole satellite thing, it's basically "waggle your phone until you barely have enough connectivity to barely send a super simple, pre-formatted message to emergency services".

 

If that's the extent of what's being offered, how in the world is it being sold as "satellite connectivity"?!

... because it connects to a satellite...

[Rauten]

11 minutes ago, rikitikitavi said:

... because it connects to a satellite...

And again, by that logic, my phone is magic! because it allows me to connect to all phone carriers in my country with a single SIM! What marvelous feature, that deserves full-fledged ads! And to be a main, priority point of a multi-million presentation to the entire world!

 

But the reality is, it's only for emergency 112 phone calls.

[rikitikitavi]

7 minutes ago, Rauten said:

And again, by that logic, my phone is magic! because it allows me to connect to all phone carriers in my country with a single SIM! What marvelous feature, that deserves full-fledged ads! And to be a main, priority point of a multi-million presentation to the entire world!

 

But the reality is, it's only for emergency 112 phone calls.

Assurance of safety worth a lot, otherwise insurance would not be a thing. 

 

Show me another cellphone that can do the same - Apple rightfully promotes a unique feature with what looks like thoughtful UX.

[Rauten]

40 minutes ago, rikitikitavi said:

Apple rightfully promotes a unique feature with what looks like thoughtful UX.

Sure, it's a feature.

 

It most certainly isn't "OOOHH! Satellite connectivity!" -- the same way that, again, my phone doesn't have multi-carrier connectivity with a single SIM.

 

It is "limited satellite-based emergency signaling under specific conditions". But that isn't nearly as marketable, of course.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Rauten said:

 

It is "limited satellite-based emergency signaling under specific conditions". But that isn't nearly as marketable, of course.

It doesn't help that people are trying to claim it has full coverage everywhere in the world when we don't even have a working prototype in the hands of an independent reviewer.

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, rikitikitavi said:

Assurance of safety worth a lot, otherwise insurance would not be a thing. 

Welp if you value your safety and since it's been used as an example of Apple grandiuos innovation in this thread,

SOS button, anywhere in the globe

Two way Texting anything you want from anywhere in the world

Send your coordinates to anyone fron anywhere in the world

Maps and land topography

And 35 hours of battery life or 200 hours depending on the mode

And no magic wand waving o find the satellite.

If you value your life during your outings isn't this kind of device a better investment than carrying your pretty iPhone with 10 hour battery in to the wild?

Oh, I forgot. This ian't innovative cause it ain't shiny and doesn't take unrealistic pictures of reality.

[saltycaramel]

Wild to think some people fail to see the innovation in integrating a whole separate external device (even in a slightly worse and less featured form, and with inferior battery life, still impressive) into a device hundreds of millions of people will carry in their pockets at all times anyway.

 

"Just carry a satellite phone bro", "Just carry a point&shoot camera", "Just carry a laptop for browsing", etc. same vibes. 

[saltycaramel]

On 9/12/2022 at 7:26 AM, saltycaramel said:

Bottomline, Apple can place all the “when it’s ready, give it all to me” kinda orders on N3 in the world (that’s what generates rumors about “large orders”), but if it ain’t ready it ain’t ready and if it misses the train it misses the train. The N3 ship has (long) sailed for H2 2022 products and their 2023 derivatives. 

 

Speaking of missing trains, looks like N3 missed the train for real and Apple will go straight to N3E in fall 2023

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/Apple-to-use-TSMC-s-next-3-nm-chip-tech-in-iPhones-Macs-next-year

 

(I think the sentence about some iPads using N3 is just outdated information at this point)

 

So this tweet from a leaker 2 weeks ago was kinda right

 

 

[suicidalfranco]

6 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

Wild to think some people fail to see the innovation in integrating a whole separate external device (even in a slightly worse and less featured form, and with inferior battery life, still impressive) into a device hundreds of millions of people will carry in their pockets at all times anyway.

 

"Just carry a satellite phone bro", "Just carry a point&shoot camera", "Just carry a laptop for browsing", etc. same vibes. 

Nope, devices that already exist doing things better than your All-in-One solution doesn't warrant you a free inovation cookie. You did nothing you and you're doing it worse at the same time.

[saltycaramel]

4 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

Nope, devices that already exist doing things better than your All-in-One solution doesn't warrant you a free inovation cookie. You did nothing you and you're doing it worse at the same time.

In case of emergency having it vs not having it at all sounds 100% better, not worse.

That's the reality for 99% people that will never buy and/or carry a dedicated satellite phone.

Not every emergency is planned in advance.

[Dracarris]

7 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

Nope, devices that already exist doing things better than your All-in-One solution doesn't warrant you a free inovation cookie. You did nothing you and you're doing it worse at the same time.

I can tell you for sure that this feature was far far far from free in terms of R&D. Enabling any satellite connectivity, even with the super low bandwidth, is no easy feat with the constraints at hand. The integration into a mainstream phone with no dedicated antenna is new and innovative, period. You're either going to accept that or choke and fume on it, like some other people here in these threads with a clear agenda against a brand.

[suicidalfranco]

9 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

In case of emergency having it vs not having it at all sounds 100% better, not worse.

That's the reality for 99% people that will never buy and/or carry a dedicated satellite phone.

Not every emergency is planned in advance.

If you do something that would put you in such a dangerous situation the least think you should think about is carrying an iPhone and gear up with tools actually made for the job.

Gee I great it would feel to be unable to move and your only way to ask for help is to whirl around your phone till you can actually get a connection to satellite. Compared to having a non innovative device that is always connected to said satellite.

 

[suicidalfranco]

10 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

I can tell you for sure that this feature was far far far from free in terms of R&D. Enabling any satellite connectivity, even with the super low bandwidth, is no easy feat with the constraints at hand. The integration into a mainstream phone with no dedicated antenna is new and innovative, period. You're either going to accept that or choke and fume on it, like some other people here in these threads with a clear agenda against a brand.

So if you spend time and money developing something that's enough of a reason to call you an innovator now?

How low can we lower this bar.

Me choking on fumes? Nah mate, I don't spend my days getting high vaping on the farts of Ive and acting like a the world greatest Ive farts sommelier.

[Blademaster91]

3 hours ago, Rauten said:

Sure, it's a feature.

 

It most certainly isn't "OOOHH! Satellite connectivity!" -- the same way that, again, my phone doesn't have multi-carrier connectivity with a single SIM.

 

It is "limited satellite-based emergency signaling under specific conditions". But that isn't nearly as marketable, of course.

A limited satellite based emergency with a connection in only a clear line of sight area, and you have to wave the phone around until you find a signal, definitely doesn't sound like something I would trust in case of an emergency.

2 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

If you do something that would put you in such a dangerous situation the least think you should think about is carrying an iPhone and gear up with tools actually made for the job.

Gee I great it would feel to be unable to move and your only way to ask for help is to whirl around your phone till you can actually get a connection to satellite. Compared to having a non innovative device that is always connected to said satellite.

 

I think this seems like carrying a multitool around and expecting to survive out in the forest with nothing else, when you expect one thing to do everything its not going to work as well as having a real knife and a set of tools. And IMO if you're going out somewhere really remote you should have a dedicated satellite phone rather than trusting a fragile iphone you'll have to make sure is charged then wave it around hoping you'll get a signal.

[saltycaramel]

Everybody carries a smartphone everywhere all the times.

 

Every iPhone from 2022 till the end of times will integrate emergency satellite communication.

 

It’s there “in case of..”, like an airbag or a glass breaker, you don’t need to actually use it to justify its existence.

 

It’s not that hard to understand guys, don’t be detached nerds in a bubble.

[Obioban]

Having broken down in a desert twice, both times out of cell phone coverage, I can see the appeal of this for sure.

 

In both cases, my end solution was hitch hiking. Not the best.

 

People are amusingly blind when they have a raging bias.

[Dracarris]

47 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

So if you spend time and money developing something that's enough of a reason to call you an innovator now?

Well, yes, if something novel and useful comes out of it. And that's nothing new. Unobtrusive integration into a mainstream smartphone satisfies these requirements.

 

And fuming has nothing to do with vaping and farting - but whatever.

 

Does it make any sense to tell him that Ive long left Apple and had nothing to do with these technical features? Nah, I don't hink so.

[Dracarris]

9 minutes ago, Obioban said:

Having broken down in a desert twice, both times out of cell phone coverage, I can see the appeal of this for sure.

Nah. Niche use cases. Negligible. Not worth the effort.

 

Anti-Apple bashing 101:

• Step 1: This has been around since the dawn of time with every other brand for a fraction of the cost, even though I can't come up with any prove of it
• If get caught with misinformation in Step 1, go to
• Step 2: Who needs this anyway, this is a stupid feature.

 

Rinse and Repeat.

[saltycaramel]

Embargo lifted, the reviews are in.

[wanderingfool2]

3 hours ago, Obioban said:

People are amusingly blind when they have a raging bias.

3 hours ago, Dracarris said:

I can tell you for sure that this feature was far far far from free in terms of R&D. Enabling any satellite connectivity, even with the super low bandwidth, is no easy feat with the constraints at hand. The integration into a mainstream phone with no dedicated antenna is new and innovative, period. You're either going to accept that or choke and fume on it, like some other people here in these threads with a clear agenda against a brand.

It's that you have people who are attributing it as though Apple is the one that is going to make it a standard feature, or that Apple somehow is the innovator of this tech...while ignoring the fact that the technology has been advancing this way for years (and multiple companies have been working towards this).

 

My assumption with how Apples tech is going to work is using sat. frequency bands, and using a directional antenna (like how bluetooth has) to send the signal.  With it being directional, my guess is that they get a slightly higher power that they could legally send (concentrated in a direction instead of every direction).

 

I'm all for saying Apple will be the first to US market for a standard size phone, but I'm against the people who make the claims as though Apple was the only one who saw this opportunity...or that they somehow waved their hands and made the rest of the world want to do this.  Look at the thread where Android announced they were doing the feature, and you find that people claiming Android only announced to try stealing the thunder.  The fact is, multiple companies have been working towards this...even the Mate 50 will have the hardware to do this (of course this is ignored since Huawei bans pretty much prevent it's practical use outside of China).

 

Honestly as well, it's the t-mobile and Starlink tech that is going to be the game changer if anything (because they should be able to support even older hardware, but I'm assuming newer hardware is where you start getting things like phone calls).

 

The other thing to note, no one talks about the fact that Apple is eventually going to start charging for this feature (or all the wording essentially indicates they will).  They are purchasing 85% of GlobalStar bandwidth, where multimillion dollar sats are being having to be deployed.

 

 

4 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

Wild to think some people fail to see the innovation in integrating a whole separate external device (even in a slightly worse and less featured form, and with inferior battery life, still impressive) into a device hundreds of millions of people will carry in their pockets at all times anyway.

Because it isn't innovation, lots of companies have been working towards this (and partially collaborative).  It also doesn't have a full integrated separate device in it.  Sat phones are almost identical, except they are built with a larger antenna.  I bet the only big difference here is they used the directional antenna's, that are found similar to bluetooths, and they use the correct frequency.  Remember, Apple isn't even managing to send real texts...they are sending pre-canned messages that effectively means that instead of 140 bytes they are likely sending 10 bytes (which includes GPS coords).

 

Those devices you are saying they "integrated" have no issues making even phone calls.

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Honestly as well, it's the t-mobile and Starlink tech that is going to be the game changer if anything (because they should be able to support even older hardware, but I'm assuming newer hardware is where you start getting things like phone calls).

Technologically speaking the Android/Starlink thing and the current Apple thing are quite different. Starlink (will) use 5G bands so they launch satellites that are tailored towards usage in phones, while Apple makes existing Satellites and bands usable without the usual bulk and overhead of existing sat phones.

Also, since Starlink will use 5G bands, there is absolutely no problem in making this available on iOS, too.

 

I don't get all this "several companies have been working towards this" - yeah, but Apple brought it to market first, period. Since when did it become relevant whether competitors have been working on a similar feature? We always measured companies at what's been available for the general public, and not what has been cooking in an R&D lab. This line of reasoning is just bonkers IMHO.

[AnonymousGuy]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

 

I don't get all this "several companies have been working towards this" - yeah, but Apple brought it to market first, period. Since when did it become relevant whether competitors have been working on a similar feature? We always measured companies at what's been available for the general public, and not what has been cooking in an R&D lab. This line of reasoning is just bonkers IMHO.

Agree.  Yeah it's not the first for a sat phone or beacon (ie the SPOT), but it's the first where I can have one device do both.  And that's great for people like me that maybe only go out into nowhere twice a year and don't want to pay for a dedicated device.

[Obioban]

7 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Agree.  Yeah it's not the first for a sat phone or beacon (ie the SPOT), but it's the first where I can have one device do both.  And that's great for people like me that maybe only go out into nowhere twice a year and don't want to pay for a dedicated device.

That's exactly the appeal. I don't go into remote areas anywhere near enough to pay for a dedicated device/subscription.

 

But, having the basic functionality in a device I carry with me every day? Yes, please.