[Updated] Far Out Stuff - Apple September 2022 Event Thread, Expectations, Reality and stuff.

[WolframaticAlpha]

15 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

The first totally new Apple Watch category in 7 years.

Uhm, the SE came out in 2020

15 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

The first H2 based Airpods and probably the most important upgrade to Airpods ever. 

And who cares? They are airpods for godsake.

15 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

The first Dynamic Island iPhones, a first departure from the 2017 notch design and a new way to interact with iOS. 

Again as I already said, the notification shade on android is far superior(IMO) to what apple's notification thing is.

 

15 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

The introduction of friggin' emergency satellite connectivity, for the first time in history (gotta rub it to those mentioning niche pre-existing satellite phones) mass-deployed to tens of millions of users. 

Which is an incredibly edge case use feature and is defo not going to kill satellite phones(seriously, do not rely on an iphone solely if you are going into a dangerous environment).

 

15 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

As for the Mini, people should have bought more of those instead of just fantasizing about how cool would it be to use it.

What do you even want lol? I can't even express my sadness about the demise of a product I have been daily driving and love? Jeez, you don't need to defend everything they do

[Imbadatnames]

Some stuff seems cool. The Ultra watch would be great for work for me so I can swap my series 7 for that rather than having my series 7 for day to day and buying a £700 Garmin for the few weeks a year I’d need it. 
 

As for the island I’m unsure. I get what they’re going for but I think I prefer the notch, purple colour is cool, not a fan of AOD so I hope you can turn that off. Not due to get a new phone until the 15 though so meh. Hopefully the 15 will improve a lot over the 14. 

[saltycaramel]

1 hour ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Uhm, the SE came out in 2020

 

 

What do you even want lol? I can't even express my sadness about the demise of a product I have been daily driving and love? Jeez, you don't need to defend everything they do

 

Comparing the relevance of the SE (a dumbed down version of the regular watch) to the unveiling of the Ultra.

 

And you left out the part were I specified “I’m not talking about anyone here and people actually daily driving a Mini”.

 

Defend? This Mini affair is one those super straightforward things that need no defending at all: no sales -> no more product. Crystal clear, plain and simple. 

 

That said I hope in the coming years Apple will find ways to make the Mini aficionados at least a bit satisfied again, maybe by making the regular phone extremely thin and light (like an iPod Touch). 

[Paul Thexton]

25 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

Defend? This Mini affair is one those super straightforward things that need no defending at all: no sales -> no more product. Crystal clear, plain and simple. 

Agree with this. I use a mini 12, I prefer the form factor as I find phones with larger displays to be cumbersome and bloody awkward to use. But if the sales figures are low/disappointing, then it just makes sense for Apple to decide to either entirely withdraw from or (hopefully) reduce the release frequency to that market segment.

 

27 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

That said I hope in the coming years Apple will find ways to make the Mini aficionados at least a bit satisfied again, maybe by making the regular phone extremely thin and light (like an iPod Touch). 

Wouldn’t do it for me I’m afraid, my issue is the physical footprint of the screen rather than how slim the phone is, but yeah I guess for other people that could be an acceptable compromise.

 

If the mini will disappear entirely by the time I’d be looking to replace my 12 then going back to Android may be the only choice available to me (presuming that smaller Android phones also haven’t disappeared by then)

 

I kinda miss my Nexus 4 tbh

[Obioban]

20 hours ago, Paul Thexton said:

I've got some fake Air Pods (Anker/Soundcore Life P2) which have been fine to use, but the charging case is a bit crap - sometimes I drop the buds in to charge, and it doesn't start charging the bud - meaning I have to remove and re-insert ... or even worse, it starts charging, and then 5 minutes later my phone says they've connected again, and I look back and they've stopped charging - necessitating removing / re-inserting.

 

Genuinely no idea what's going on there.

 

Anker have released some new earbuds recently with ANC on them which I'm tempted by - it's a more reasonable cost to me than the £250+ needed for Air Pods Pro gen 2, which no matter how good they are, is just too expensive IMO.

https://www.amazon.com/Apple-MLWK3AM-A-AirPods-Pro/dp/B09JQMJHXY/ref=sr_1_3?crid=4RT01VFZ6RJY&keywords=airpods+pro&qid=1662807182&sprefix=airpods+pro%2Caps%2C87&sr=8-3

 

$180 to get into gen 1 Airpods Pro, which are pretty freaking great. 

 

... Not that I haven't preordered my airpods pro 2. 

[hishnash]

4 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

but at the same time when they are about 50% of the market

In the US, world wide they are much less of the market. if they were just to role out iMessage world wide that could be close to 10x to 20x their server costs if users across the spectrum adopted it. The only way that would make economic senes is if there was some way to turn these users into your product, android users would not pay for iMessage they will not even pay for apps (talking as a developer here who as seen numbers comparing user willingness to $$ for apps).

 

 

4 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Guess what though, it's pretty much the same premise under iMessage.

Yes RCS is the same as iMessage the difference of the users is when you send an iMessage you do not expect google to be told that you are attempting to send an iMessage, you have agreed an existing terms of use with Apple. RCS on the other hand is not a single provider it is a network of 100s if not 1000s of possible providers including 100s of nation state level providers... this is quite different to apples messaging service being informed you plan on sending a message.

 

 

4 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

It's not like the privacy invasion like you are talking about...because guess what, a lot of what you are talking about is still roughly possible through sms/standard phonecalls as well.

 

The difference with standard SMS is the client opts to send receipts and the expectation of the

 

is that your network provider and the network provider of the person you are messaging is aware of the message but you do not expect a third party (like google) to be in the loop.  If RCS had been implemented as originally planed (only by network providers) then it would be much closer to SMS in this privacy expectation of the user.  But this is not what happened. 

 

4 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

You are assuming that.  Google already has the majority of that with Google Messages.

Not at all, sure google had lots of info on android users when they are using google messages. But the broad adoption of RSC google gain a lot more info over a much larger number of users, most users were not using Google messages after all.  The info RCS providers the provider is a LOT, google could work with apple to build something that was much better are preserving privacy but running such a service will cost so much if your google I just cant see why they would offer it to users that are not paying them if google cant use it to augment their data, the server costs will be in the 10s to 100s of millions a month if not more (images, videos etc...). 

[wanderingfool2]

5 minutes ago, hishnash said:

The difference with standard SMS is the client opts to send receipts and the expectation of the

 

is that your network provider and the network provider of the person you are messaging is aware of the message but you do not expect a third party (like google) to be in the loop.  If RCS had been implemented as originally planed (only by network providers) then it would be much closer to SMS in this privacy expectation of the user.  But this is not what happened. 

Again, unless you are siting sources what you are saying is purely just speculation.

 

Wiretapping laws/monitoring of communication channel laws is a real thing you know.  They even got into trouble for accidentally capturing open wifi data.  The fact that it MIGHT go through a google server does not mean that they get to record information regarding it.  RCS doesn't have a privacy policy that you agree too, which very much has the communication for it fall under those types of laws (as it's considered a private conversation).  Things like your phone provider, and others get around it by having you sign away your rights in the service contract effectively.

 

btw, there isn't much of a difference than the telco's which also current sell away your data then.  The fact is, it's not really far off of SMS.  Apples refusal to not support it does not have to do with "privacy" or other things like that.  It's simply that they know creating the culture that Android isn't as good at messaging than Apple is what can keep people in their eco-system.  (There are seriously people I know who are in that sort of predicament, they have used things like iMessage so much now that if they switch away to Android they know they will be messed up because things like group chats don't behave correctly).

[captain_to_fire]

Now that the A16 Bionic chip is based on 4nm lithography, I'm looking forward to the M2 Pro/Max/Ultra being based on the same node.

 

I wish that the 14 Plus or the 14 Pro Max was a bit taller and narrower so that it can fit comfortably on my hands.

[Obioban]

9 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

Now that the A16 Bionic chip is based on 4nm lithography, I'm looking forward to the M2 Pro/Max/Ultra being based on the same node.

 

I wish that the 14 Plus or the 14 Pro Max was a bit taller and narrower so that it can fit comfortably on my hands.

I had the exact same thought. 

 

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about 4nm being used in a mass production device. 

 

I don't remember hearing any rumors of 4nm-- just debate if the M2 Pro/Max/Ultra would stay 5nm or go to 3nm. 

[saltycaramel]

7 hours ago, Obioban said:

I don't remember hearing any rumors of 4nm-- just debate if the M2 Pro/Max/Ultra would stay 5nm or go to 3nm. 

 

It was actually rumored and it belongs to the "5nm class" family per TSMC parlance. 

 

This article from last spring does a good job of explaining the current TSCM nodes:

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-to-boost-4nm-and-5nm-output-by-25-percent

 

[hishnash]

3 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

It was actually rumored and it belongs to the "5nm class" family per TSMC parlance. 

 

There has also been some speculation that apple might be using 3nm for M2 pro/max/ultra/extrame as apple apparently have large orders for this node starting in oct/nov orders at this time would not be for A17 chips. But others have speculated that these orders are for a chip to go in the AR/VR headset (lower power is going to be important if it is non-tethered). 

[RedRound2]

On 9/9/2022 at 6:18 PM, mr moose said:

Who cares if they are the first to sell it to a million people.  That doesn't make them the innovator and industry leader people are championing.   The argument people have been making has now been reduced to "but apple will sell it to millions of people"  which means literally nothing against the original claims of them being the first.

Find me a comparable product instead of spouting out nonsense. They are not like the 10th people to add satellite capability to a regular looking functional modern smartphone. All I said is thaey implemented an extra feature in a way its not obtrusive, but still there for emergencies + opens up a wide new possibility for more enhanced functionalitites later down the line since satellite constellation tech is the sort of the new fad now.

 

And you go on and on about some stupid crap

On 9/9/2022 at 6:18 PM, mr moose said:

This thread and every other damned thread that mentions it.

And yet you can't quote anything. So we have an answer

On 9/9/2022 at 6:18 PM, mr moose said:

I swear it is not possible to read about anything new any more because if apple didn't invent it we have to hear about how they did, and if they did do something good we have to hear about how everyone else is just a copy cat and how shit their implementation will be.  It makes legitimate discussion impossible,  having to sift through a million pointless fanboy posts hoping to read something that is actually worth reading is nothing short of frustrating.  

There a lot of legitimate discussions to be had, but it was Blademaster69 who stated talking about meh satellite tech in a phone was no big deal and Apple did not do anything new, which was straight up false.

On 9/9/2022 at 6:18 PM, mr moose said:

I don't care if you like apple, I want to read about what is happening and peoples take on the technology, not some idolized perception of a company and the pointless rhetoric that flows on from it.

People's take on tech is are the example of other discussions going on forums about how RCS is bad, or how useful satellite capability will be now and in future, other thoughts on the events, etc. But its not my fault that you only like to indulge into some random nonsensical conversations and claims.

On 9/9/2022 at 6:41 PM, Blademaster91 said:

I agree its always the same with something Apple copies with a ton of marketing buzzwords, like BT headphones, nothing new but when Apple came out with Airpods people act like they invented BT headphones and claim they are the best when they objectively aren't.

Apple never claimed and NO ONE claimed they invented Bluetooth earphones. But they turned Bluetooth earphones from a pain to a seamless experience with software which is what the innovation is. An example of this is seamless detection and pairing and while other vendors are still using high end chips to have their Bluetooth headphones connect to multiple devices at the same time, Apple has made seamless transition between N devices with regular hardware with their superior software stack.

 

This is actual things that affect people user experience and productivity. It might not sound cool to you kids on paper, but grow up one day and appreciate the good things that are done by company's like Apple who seem to have literally no interest in playing with paper specs, but rather with actual genuine features

On 9/9/2022 at 6:41 PM, Blademaster91 said:

I read through the thread on the topic of SpaceX and T-Mobile satellite connected phones, SpaceX has been working on it for a while, so I wonder if Apple took that idea for themselves.

SpaceX is working on a bloody satellite, not a phone. This is like two different ends of a same problem. You cannot have a fully functional idiot-proof user facing website without a backend or a frontend. You need both.

 

And Apple has been working on satellite tech for so long.

And Apple's existing partnership is with Globestar note SpaceX

On 9/9/2022 at 6:41 PM, Blademaster91 said:

I don't see how satellite based communication would become a common feature, its a niche feature that is only really needed in an emergency.

It isn't innovation when the technology already exists and is already usable and accessible for those that need a satellite based phone.

So people want to champion apple claiming they invented the satellite phone, and now they want to claim how many sells matters, it really doesn't matter for something that is a niche use.

Satellite connectivity opens possibilities for future. It doesn't really take a genius to know that and if you aren't a person with any vision, I can't help you.

It doesn't "already exist" in the ay Apple did it. Find me one, then talk. Otherwise stop comparing phones with 5 meter antenna or a ground station as an example of satellite connectivity. 

On 9/9/2022 at 9:54 PM, Dracarris said:

As for Airpods Pro, I think it was pretty underwhelming. Finally volume control, cool, new H2, cool, but what actually is the benefit? Better ANC, cool. Still nothing mind blowing IMHO.

They upgraded all aspects of the Airpods sans the design and it all seems quite meaningful as well. I dont think they could've done anything existing that would've made felt anyone wow much.

 

But, as an owner of Airpods Pro - I am damn excited because longer battery life, 2x better ANC and adaptive transparency mode all sounds and improvements to the case all makes me really want to upgrade my current one

On 9/10/2022 at 12:08 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

I quoted the specific bits.  You are the one who literally quoted clipping off a sentence taking away the context with what I was saying.  You then continue to half read what I am saying and make it out as if I am saying something else.  You want to talk about speaking volumes, that speaks volumes more.  It's not my responsiblity to respond to everything you said, and if you used your brain you would realize that I did cover it partially in the sense that Apple itself is part of the reason RCS got off to such a rocky start.

Where did I clip anything, you said. Please attach a screenshot. 

How is Apple the reason for RCS having a rocky start? What nonsensical bullshit are you talking about

On 9/10/2022 at 12:08 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

If you want to talk about the encryption thing, that is just a stupid argument because the technology that Apple is relying on to communicate with Android is SMS...which you guessed it, doesn't have encryption.  It's stupid arguing bringing up that it doesn't have encryption.

SMS is a default fallback. As Dracarris said, anyone with two working brain cells already use Whatsapp/Telegram or 50 other well known, well featured apps for cross communication. Google doesn't need to enter this oversaturated market

On 9/10/2022 at 12:08 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

Again, you are so illiterate to what I was saying.  I am saying it's egregious that they spend millions (maybe billions) on something that won't be used by many, yet claim they don't want to put money into making their phone compatible with the other 50% of the market by implementing RCS because they rule that there wasn't enough demand.

Compatible with 50% other devices. Are you not aware about Whatsapp/Singla/Telegram anything. Please go to the street and literally ask anyone how you communicate with non iPhone user. I can't help you if you are so illiterate

On 9/10/2022 at 12:46 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

There are multiple reports and multiple cases of Android users in schools getting effectively ostracized because they aren't part of text groups (or when they are it doesn't behave correctly).

That's not Apple's problem nor is its Google's problem. That's more of parenting problem that has nothing to do with RCS or anything

[saltycaramel]

6 hours ago, hishnash said:

There has also been some speculation that apple might be using 3nm for M2 pro/max/ultra/extrame as apple apparently have large orders for this node starting in oct/nov orders at this time would not be for A17 chips. But others have speculated that these orders are for a chip to go in the AR/VR headset (lower power is going to be important if it is non-tethered). 

 

To recap

A14/M1/M1max = N5 (5nm rev. 1)

A15/M2 = N5P (5nm rev. 2)

A16 = N4 (5nm rev. 3)

 

Nodes meant for 2023 (not late 2022 anymore)

N3 (3nm rev. 1)= for taking big risks at the bleeding edge

N4P (5nm rev. 4) = for playing it safe with a tried and tested formula, also cheaper, also easily IP-compatible with N5/N5P/N4

 

So products (like M2max based Macs) that will be on shelves in fall 2022 are either going to be N5P or N4, no chance for them to be N3 or even N4P.

 

Chips we yet have to see in 2022

 

- M2 Max and its variations (M2 Pro and M2 Ultra), latest rumored to be N5P

 

- X1 the totally separate MacPro SoC; my bet: could be N4P if delayed 2023 actual availability, otherwise N5P

 

Chips we’ll see in 2023

 

- AR/VR headset: rumored to have M2 (so N5P) and a N4 reality processor for the cameras (maybe a repurposed A16?), hard to imagine Apple gonna walk and chew gum by throwing in the wholly new N3 in the mix, also under no circumstances this would constitute a “large order” since the shipments for the headset are less than 1/100 of iPhone shipments

 

- Macbook Air M3 in 2 sizes after WWDC: probably N4 like the A16, why split the A16/M3 family into totally different nodes? 

 

- iPhone 15 with A17: finally N3 after 3 long years on 5nm revisions

 

Bottomline, Apple can place all the “when it’s ready, give it all to me” kinda orders on N3 in the world (that’s what generates rumors about “large orders”), but if it ain’t ready it ain’t ready and if it misses the train it misses the train. The N3 ship has (long) sailed for H2 2022 products and their 2023 derivatives. 

 

edit

Also I forgot to mention rule number 1 of introducing a new process: you always wanna start from the smaller chips (like A17 or a M3/M4 tops, not a Max or a huge MacPro SoC), so N3 will probably start with something small. 

[wanderingfool2]

29 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Where did I clip anything, you said. Please attach a screenshot. 

How is Apple the reason for RCS having a rocky start? What nonsensical bullshit are you talking about

Why should I bother wasting my time screenshotting the quote where you drooped the last part of the line, which would have given to a lot more context what that line was about.  You can go look at it yourself.

 

As for RCS, Apple has been dead set against it and did use their power with carrier by their flat out refusal to support it.  It literally is some of the reasons why carriers didn't want to initially deploy it fully, as they viewed Apples non-support of it as almost a non-starter.

 

36 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

SMS is a default fallback. As Dracarris said, anyone with two working brain cells already use Whatsapp/Telegram or 50 other well known, well featured apps for cross communication. Google doesn't need to enter this oversaturated market

Except that you don't get to dictate what others use.  There are so many iPhone users who won't use apps, it's in general hard to get them to use it.  It also breaks things such as people who already use iMessage group chats.

 

Oh, and let's see.  Whatsapp - Meta (Literally allows them to effectively grab meta data on you by a company thats severely unethical in regards to user data).  Telegram is half a billion dollars in debt.  The fact is it's a pain to interact with iPhone users sometimes, especially when it comes to group chats (and if those group chats already existed on iMessage).  Try convincing 10 people to download an messaging App.  You will find at least 1 or 2 of them will object for some reason.

 

It's also not Google entering an oversaturated market.  It's Google attempting to make sure there is a protocol other than SMS that actually is closer to what people expect in 2022.  (You know, instead of MMS messages which are limited to 1.2MB at best).

 

51 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Compatible with 50% other devices. Are you not aware about Whatsapp/Singla/Telegram anything. Please go to the street and literally ask anyone how you communicate with non iPhone user. I can't help you if you are so illiterate

On 9/9/2022 at 12:16 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

There are multiple reports and multiple cases of Android users in schools getting effectively ostracized because they aren't part of text groups (or when they are it doesn't behave correctly).

That's not Apple's problem nor is its Google's problem. That's more of parenting problem that has nothing to do with RCS or anything

You are what's wrong with this whole Apple cult.  You blaming it as a Google problem that people get ostracized for something that iMessage doesn't support.  It's no better than Tim Cook saying "buy an iPhone" as a response.  The fact is it is happening, and yes it is an Apple problem, because they are literally trying to create an elitist culture where they don't want to support open standards out fear that if they support it they lose customer base (because they aren't locking people in).

[mr moose]

@wanderingfool2  Literally wasting your time with these guys,    Evidence and reality are lost to certain people in these apple threads.    Most people know the good the bad and the ugly in this industry.  Unfortunately those who only see good will never accept the bad or the ugly.  Also unfortunately that is where you have to just let them have the last word and let them think they won or else they will start calling you names then you will get a ban for trolling.  

[Paul Thexton]

4 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

It literally is some of the reasons why carriers didn't want to initially deploy it fully, as they viewed Apples non-support of it as almost a non-starter.

Have any carriers stated this as a reason, or are you putting 2 & 2 together for yourself here?

 

How much does it cost to run an RCS server? Can I monetize the service? If it's a cost to me to implement, and I can't charge for it or otherwise monetize the data I get from it, then what's in it for me to implement it?

[RedRound2]

On 9/12/2022 at 11:03 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

Why should I bother wasting my time screenshotting the quote where you drooped the last part of the line, which would have given to a lot more context what that line was about.  You can go look at it yourself.

This is your original quote

Quote

You are giving Apple too much credit in terms of making it a standard safety feature.  Having an SOS caller on phones has been nothing new.  Having an SOS caller on sat phones specifically isn't anything new.  The fact is there has been rumors for years now of Starlink, and other companies literally coming up with this tech and trying to get it established.  They spent all that R&D work, and yet they can't figure out to implement RCS...and industry standard.

 

On an unrelated note, Cook essentially said that they don't care about supporting the RCS standard and the whole "buy an iPhone" as a solutions to me is a bit disgusting.  That response was essentially when asked about better support with texting with Android phones (because sending a photo to Android sucks from iPhone)

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/08/apple-ceo-tim-cook-jony-ive-laurene-powell-jobs-panel-interview.html

The fact is I replied to all points mentioned here and you basically turned around an SOS satellite conversation into "Apple bad because they refuse RCS"

On 9/12/2022 at 11:03 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

As for RCS, Apple has been dead set against it and did use their power with carrier by their flat out refusal to support it.  It literally is some of the reasons why carriers didn't want to initially deploy it fully, as they viewed Apples non-support of it as almost a non-starter.

Lol, what nonsense. You think carriers are dependent on Apple? They make money with SMS limits (basically a cash cow). Why the fuck would they want to implement better texting service for free? And why are you championing for a clearly inferior text messaging app with spam and malware issues.

 

You have yet to acknowledge this, and you have the nerve of making some bullshit about me misquoting you

On 9/12/2022 at 11:03 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

Except that you don't get to dictate what others use.  There are so many iPhone users who won't use apps, it's in general hard to get them to use it.  It also breaks things such as people who already use iMessage group chats.

What is this another bullshit/assumption. Do you have any shred of evidence this is the case. If they didn't want any apps, they could've stuck with a feature phone.

 

Clearly you are making nonsense at this point to make an argument

On 9/12/2022 at 11:03 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

Oh, and let's see.  Whatsapp - Meta (Literally allows them to effectively grab meta data on you by a company thats severely unethical in regards to user data).  Telegram is half a billion dollars in debt.  The fact is it's a pain to interact with iPhone users sometimes, especially when it comes to group chats (and if those group chats already existed on iMessage).  Try convincing 10 people to download an messaging App.  You will find at least 1 or 2 of them will object for some reason.

WhatsApp has a pretty good privacy policy. Instagram and facebook on the other hand, not so much but people in US still use it a lot. The fact that Telegram is in debt doesn't make its texting app bad. There are many companies in debt. Signal is also a good alternative.

 

RCS is even worse with carriers snooping into your conversations. Your reason for other apps is exactly the reason why RCS is bad + more. 

And I refuse to believe that certain people have trouble downloding well established apps like you claim

On 9/12/2022 at 11:03 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

It's also not Google entering an oversaturated market.  It's Google attempting to make sure there is a protocol other than SMS that actually is closer to what people expect in 2022.  (You know, instead of MMS messages which are limited to 1.2MB at best).

Nobody uses SMS and MMS anymore apart from marketing, OTPs, etc. RCS was implemented in my country earlier this year and it was horrible. I used to get full screen ads with pictures all the time. It was so bad that Google stopped the service entirely. It shows how thought out the whole thing is, and knowing Google it won't be long before they kill this one and make a new app

On 9/12/2022 at 11:03 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

You are what's wrong with this whole Apple cult.  You blaming it as a Google problem that people get ostracized for something that iMessage doesn't support.  It's no better than Tim Cook saying "buy an iPhone" as a response.  The fact is it is happening, and yes it is an Apple problem, because they are literally trying to create an elitist culture where they don't want to support open standards out fear that if they support it they lose customer base (because they aren't locking people in).

"You blaming it as a Google problem that people get ostracized for something that iMessage doesn't support." - this is not what I said.

On 9/12/2022 at 10:07 AM, RedRound2 said:

That's not Apple's problem nor is its Google's problem. That's more of parenting problem that has nothing to do with RCS or anything

You are sort of twist things intentionally to fit your narrative don't you. I've highlighted it for you in case vision isn't the best

 

Apple doesn't sell essential items of life for anyone to get attached to. If I get an iPhone I can use an iPhone. If I have an android device (which I do actually use daily) I can use android. Anybody ostracized over this is equally as bad as being a racist/sexist/homophobic, all of which is unacceptable and problem with child/parenting.

 

IF you have a mixed group of friends, using a common app is not a big deal at all. Like literally how the rest of the world works, if you weren't aware (because all Americans think America is the only country)

 

In my earlier quote I told you that if RCS was as good as the 50 other texting apps + better, I would support for the move along with you. But at its current form RCS is so pathetic.

 

I've told what is wrong with RCS at least 20 times to you now. If you still can't comprehend it and still find some random nonsensical reasons to pull out of your ass - you basically defined what is wrong with this forum when it comes to anything Apple. Talk about valid criticisms about Apple, but RCS isn't one of them, as of right now

 

[Mihle]

@RedRound2My family and someone else I know including me uses SMS still. Tho spesifically for photos, snapchat or other is used.

 

Noone in my country used WhatsApp. Facebook Messenger and Snapchat is the most common ones.

 

So "noone" is wrong.

[RedRound2]

5 hours ago, Mihle said:

@RedRound2My family and someone else I know including me uses SMS still. Tho spesifically for photos, snapchat or other is used.

 

Noone in my country used WhatsApp. Facebook Messenger and Snapchat is the most common ones.

 

So "noone" is wrong.

WhatsApp is one alternative. Most of Asia and Europe uses WhatsApp. In my country, people live and breathe in WhatsApp and Instagram DMs

 

I believe people in US use Facebook messenger and snapchat most commonly, apart from iMessage. Point is there are many ways to cross communicate that has been established for years. When there are many better alternatives, I don't understand why someone wants Apple to adopt an admittedly worse standard that compromises on basically all aspects of current state of IM apps. 

[DANK_AS_gay]

On 9/8/2022 at 2:04 PM, vetali said:

Point is, its unnecessary. Even the Airpods pro 2 case supports magsafe (Qi) and the apple watch charger. I can put my watch on the magsafe charger and it holds it centered, but wont charge. They could've done magsafe charger that supported apple watch charging along with Qi charging. If I could eliminate one charger on my desk that'd be great.

Magsafe has to be that large in order to control heating issues I think. Plus, I don't want an Apple Watch the size of a coaster sitting on my wrist. The Apple Watch charger is a better solution, as it allows Apple to pack in biometric sensors and a wireless charging coil into a smaller package. If you want to get rid of a charger, here. This is what I use. It charges iPods, an Apple watch, and an iPhone, all in one charger. The problem here isn't the charger, it's your incapability of thinking past "This annoys me" into,  "What can I do to fix it?" Apple includes the charger so that you don't have to buy a station like this, but you can if you want to. Apple tried to make an all in one charger, (AirPower) but had similar issues regarding heat production.

[WhitetailAni]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:33 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

Why should I bother wasting my time screenshotting the quote where you drooped the last part of the line, which would have given to a lot more context what that line was about.  You can go look at it yourself.

People who tell other people to go prove things for themselves generally don't know what they're talking about.

[Mihle]

9 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

WhatsApp is one alternative. Most of Asia and Europe uses WhatsApp. In my country, people live and breathe in WhatsApp and Instagram DMs

 

I believe people in US use Facebook messenger and snapchat most commonly, apart from iMessage. Point is there are many ways to cross communicate that has been established for years. When there are many better alternatives, I don't understand why someone wants Apple to adopt an admittedly worse standard that compromises on basically all aspects of current state of IM apps. 

I am in Norway, btw. Almost noone is using whatsapp, its Facebook Messenger and Snapchat people use, I wish it wasn't the case but it is.

 

And some like me and my family that still use SMS, tho SMS might be in minority, don't know, I would like SMS to be better but I don't know what the solution is, but it's definitley  anything else than Facebook Messenger.

 

If I have to choose between ISP having my messages, and Facebook, I would choose ISP.

[wanderingfool2]

3 hours ago, FakeKGB said:

People who tell other people to go prove things for themselves generally don't know what they're talking about.

Read the context.  He quoted me earlier and clipped a sentence where I had said "[...]They spent all that R&D work, and yet they can't figure out to implement RCS...an industry standard. ".  He quoted it as "[...]They spent all that R&D work.", and the way he responded it was clear that he implied I was talking about them taking other's work instead of doing R&D.  Then he literally is asking where he half-quoted me.  He has been arguing as though Apple is the one who will make sat phone feature standard, he'll likely parade it around saying Android copied them or that Apple did it first (despite there being alternatives already).

 

I am not going to waste my time with him to prove that he cut out my quote, which takes the point out of context when it's in the same discussion

 

The fact is a "neat" as Apple sat. might be, they shouldn't be getting the credit that is being given to them for being the one that is making it a standard.  The fact is sat phones exists for emergencies already and multiple companies have already been working towards doing this (some of the companies trying to do so without hardware changes...but it's an issue in that they need to wait for FCC approval for the usage).

[WhitetailAni]

19 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

The fact is a "neat" as Apple sat. might be, they shouldn't be getting the credit that is being given to them for being the one that is making it a standard.

Why? They're the first to push it to consumer phones.

Yes, dedicated satphones exist, but they're expensive and average joe probably won't own one. Most people don't know what a satphone is.

20 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

The fact is sat phones exists for emergencies already and multiple companies have already been working towards doing this (some of the companies trying to do so without hardware changes...but it's an issue in that they need to wait for FCC approval for the usage).

But they haven't released it. Apple released it.

[RedRound2]

14 hours ago, Mihle said:

I am in Norway, btw. Almost noone is using whatsapp, its Facebook Messenger and Snapchat people use, I wish it wasn't the case but it is.

Oh I see. I don't know, I've generally heard people in UK, Germany uses WhatsApp. Snapchat is a pain to use as exclusively IM platform

14 hours ago, Mihle said:

And some like me and my family that still use SMS, tho SMS might be in minority, don't know, I would like SMS to be better but I don't know what the solution is, but it's definitley  anything else than Facebook Messenger.

Either you all have to switch platforms or improve RCS to a usable state with feature parity. I'm not entirely sure about RCS, but Goole's other messaging app Chat can't even select multiple photos at once to send it

14 hours ago, Mihle said:

If I have to choose between ISP having my messages, and Facebook, I would choose ISP.

I would actually trust Facebook more than ISPs. Facebook will be held accountable, ISPs, not so much

12 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Read the context.  He quoted me earlier and clipped a sentence where I had said "[...]They spent all that R&D work, and yet they can't figure out to implement RCS...an industry standard. ".  He quoted it as "[...]They spent all that R&D work.", and the way he responded it was clear that he implied I was talking about them taking other's work instead of doing R&D.  Then he literally is asking where he half-quoted me.  He has been arguing as though Apple is the one who will make sat phone feature standard, he'll likely parade it around saying Android copied them or that Apple did it first (despite there being alternatives already).

I didn't clip anything. I just press the quote button and you are reading too much into something else entirely. You really have  a habit to taking two non-related things and just assuming one caused the other, don't you. I bolded your assumptions.

 

If you cant bother to quote my complete messages/points but hang onto some quarter of sentence grammatical mistaken assumption, then why are you even here. I'm sorry that this isn't an echo chamber for you. Don't accuse me of being an "Apple lover" or whatever when you dont even have anything to argue for your side except manufacturing "misquoting" claims

 

As for whatever Apple did. Regular satellite phones are huge, expensive, bulky and something most people would never buy. They are bulky because of physics of electromagnetic radiation over such a long distance. Apple has been pouring R&D into this for 3 years to fit this into a regular phone while not having any special cost associated to it (cost of parts - not service which Apple doesn't operate). This is the innovation part. Apple did not invent satellite comms. We've had satellite ground station for decades. But what they did is implement it in a way that suddenly a niche feature became accessible to all. That is what Apple does. Literally anyone with half a brain of objectivity has said that its definitely a cool feature to have and it gets the ball rolling for satellite-based comms. At its current state, it is not very useful, but it opens the door to definitely new possibilities, especially for people who are adventurers and loves going off grid (people with boats, mountaineers, and in my country, we have a very famous tourist spot with no cell range because its politically distress. I can use satellite comms to update my parents my location just to let them know I'm safe.

12 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

I am not going to waste my time with him to prove that he cut out my quote, which takes the point out of context when it's in the same discussion

Yet you wasted your time.

12 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

The fact is a "neat" as Apple sat. might be, they shouldn't be getting the credit that is being given to them for being the one that is making it a standard.  The fact is sat phones exists for emergencies already and multiple companies have already been working towards doing this (some of the companies trying to do so without hardware changes...but it's an issue in that they need to wait for FCC approval for the usage).

Yeah, apparently R&D is your goal post for 'releasing features' to mass publics. smh. And phones like this compete with the iPhones.