Just another hot take on the backpack warranty

[JesseCarl]

Hey Linus,
I want to preface this by saying that I absolutely love what LMG is doing with youtube content and with LTT labs. I think it is a fantastic thing for the tech industry as a whole, and I admire Linus for pushing so hard to make it happen. I wholeheartedly support the effort, and if I wasn't a broke college student, I would be supporting it with my money as well as my youtube watchtime. I have been a longtime WAN watcher, and I love how open you are about your business, and your morals. However, I think there are some ways where you really fail to live up to your pro-consumer ideals.

This is post is obviously prompted by the recent WAN segment where you talked about the backpack warranty. I have seen some good posts about this here and on the reddit, but I think that a lot of the commenters on those posts were kind of missing the point.

I don't think the issue with the backpack is that you are not providing a warranty. I think it is that you are trying to position creator warehouse as a clothing and backpack business, when it is actually a merch store. By that, I don't mean that the products you provide are low quality, or that they are somehow worse than the products provided by an actual clothing brand. I really respect what you have done with creator warehouse to do everything in your power to create the best products that you can. However, the value proposition is not there. As a broke college student, I will never buy anything from your store. Once I get a high paying coding job in 2 or 3 years, I certainly might, but for now, the products that you offer are not priced in a way that would make sense for me. That is because it is a merch store. You use creator warehouse to fund LMG, so you need to run high profit margins. You have 15 millions fans who like you as a person, and who want to show that off to their friends, so they are willing to pay top dollar for that. There is nothing wrong with that. I think running a merch store is a good thing. Fans are happy because they can rep your merch, and you are happy because you have money to fund company growth.
The problem comes when you try to present your merch as competitive with established brands who are exclusively in the business of selling clothing or backpacks. It just isn't. It never will be as long as it is a merch store. Again, I am not talking about quality. I totally believe that your quality is as high as you say it is. I am talking about everything else surrounding the purchase. The value proposition. The warranty. The shipping. The wait time. These will all be so much worse from a merch store. That just comes from that fact that you don't have economies of scale on your side, and you have to make sure that your merch store is making enough money, not just to support itself, but to also support the rest of your buisness. I totally get why you don't have a warehouse in Europe. I totally get why you don't want to provide a warranty. It all makes sense. But those things make your merch a bad value proposition.
Fundamentally, when someone buys LMG merch, they are making a donation to LMG. That is not a bad thing in and of itself. I would certainly donate to LTT labs if I was a bit richer. The problem comes when you don't make it clear to people that it is a donation. I think it is your responsibility to do that, and I don't think you are doing a good enough job at it. (and you should still make margins high enough that you can provide a warranty, jesus christ)

 

I think there is another problem with this whole situation as well, and it ties back to something else you recently said on WAN.
There was a great post by Knott_A_Haikoo on the reddit where they estimated costs surrounding the backpack. They figured you had dumped 6,000,000 into production, and that you would need to sell around 30,000 backpacks to break even. I don't know how accurate those numbers are, but that is a lot of money, and that is a lot of backpacks. That seems like it was a bit of a gamble. If something had goes wrong with the production units, so you are not able to sell them as they are, or if they just don't sell as well as you were hoping, or if you have to replace a whole lot of backpacks for some manufacturing defect, it seems like LMG might be in a world of hurt. Now, I am sure that you have assessed the risks, and I am sure that you are confident that things will work out. But when you talk about a warranty, you say it is too risky for you to do it. That's ok, maybe it is. Again, when someone chooses to buy a backpack from you, they are making a donation, and not making the best value choice of backpack. But if the risk is really that high, if you are that close to becoming financially insolvent, that is something I would be really worried about if I was an LMG employee. That's right, I'm talking about unions.
Now let me be clear. I don't know the financial situation of LMG. I am sure your decisions were all completely responsible. I am sure that if any of your employees were worried, they would have talked to you, and you would have considered their concerns fairly. However, I think you misunderstand the point of a union. You said that if your employees felt the need to unionize, then you had failed as an employer. The point of a union is not just to let employees fight an evil employer who is not paying them well, or who is working them 60 hours a week. It is to allow employees to have a democratic say in the direction of a company.
Again, I trust that you listen with an open mind to any concerns that are raised to you, and I trust that you run your company in as democratic a way as you know how, but I think that is something that should not be dependent on the goodheartedness of the current owner. Democracy should be a part of every company. That could be through a union, or even better, that can be through some kind of a worker co-operative, where democracy becomes baked into the structure of the company. This is something that we have learned time and time again through governments, but somehow people have not caught onto it about companies yet. It applies just the same. Democracy is better than Monarchy. Even when the king is good. 

TL;DR
Linus's take on warranties is anti-consumer and his take on unions is anti-employee. Still a good guy though.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

46 minutes ago, JesseCarl said:

Linus's take on warranties is anti-consumer and his take on unions is anti-employee. Still a good guy though.

We need to stop glorifying this man. You lay out these qualities to anyone and they'll immediately think whoever that person is, must be a douche. 

[Roswell]

19 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

We need to stop glorifying this man. You lay out these qualities to anyone and they'll immediately think whoever that person is, must be a douche. 

Some people are incapable of objectively looking at businesses that they use/like. I think it has something to do with poor emotional regulation or something, all logic kinda goes out the window and they empathize with a business as if it's a personal friend, defending it as such.

[AnonymousGuy]

18 minutes ago, Roswell said:

Some people are incapable of objectively looking at businesses that they use/like. I think it has something to do with poor emotional regulation or something, all logic kinda goes out the window and they empathize with a business as if it's a personal friend, defending it as such.

Pretty much describes every TwitchTuber.  Kids nowadays got some weird fucked up parasocial wiring where they feel compelled to donate (and yes merch sales are a donation with a gift) to already-millionaires like they're buying their close broke friend coffee.  

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

20 minutes ago, Roswell said:

Some people are incapable of objectively looking at businesses that they use/like. I think it has something to do with poor emotional regulation or something, all logic kinda goes out the window and they empathize with a business as if it's a personal friend, defending it as such.

It goes beyond that. Remember the whole debacle on the previous tenants of Lab 2 and how some LTT fans went out of their way to track them down and harass them? It's literally the same mentality they give Apple fans flack for. But in a more destructive manner in my opinion because it goes beyond being a keyboard warrior. Their actions are not just restricted to the online world. 

[JesseCarl]

Just now, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

We need to stop glorifying this man. You lay out these qualities to anyone and they'll immediately think whoever that person is, must be a douche. 

Lol true enough. I don't want to somehow end up as the person defending Linus here. I definitely have some problems with him. But I also have a lot of things that I respect about him. I really do appreciate that LTT Labs will be doing something that does not exist elsewhere in the tech space. That is a cause I can get behind.

[Sorenson]

No offense, but your analysis comes across as kind of naive. You say $250 is a bad value for a backpack, but don’t compare it to any other backpacks of similar quality. What is your benchmark? A $100 target backpack? $250 isn’t even a crazy amount for a high end backpack since most backpacks for work (not school) start at $150. Quality products that are made ethically cost a lot of money. Also, the point of a union isn’t to make sure a company is run democratically. Unions are there to make sure employees are treated well and compensated fairly. If your employer is already doing this then why would you ever form a union? You would literally be wasting money paying union dues to get what you already have. 

[Blademaster91]

7 minutes ago, JesseCarl said:

Lol true enough. I don't want to somehow end up as the person defending Linus here. I definitely have some problems with him. But I also have a lot of things that I respect about him. I really do appreciate that LTT Labs will be doing something that does not exist elsewhere in the tech space. That is a cause I can get behind.

There are other tech youtubers which do in depth reviewing, I would personally have a difficult time trusting anything LMG puts out as a scientific review, considering all the sponsored content they put out.

As for your other points, i'm not sure who the merch is geared at, I think the backpack is too expensive though the diehard fans with money are going to buy it anyway.

And LMG is a company, not a charity, in my opinion you shouldn't feel obligated to donate them money. I think if you want to give them money, buying merch would at least give you something in return.

I have doubts of the backpack costing $6 million to develop, but if LTT did spend that much money then they are a large company, although I think it would've been a more wise business decision to partner with a known backpack company for a LTT themed backpack.

 

[dizmo]

Interesting rant.

 

Creator warehouse will also be open (IIRC) to other content creators to use. Logistics, design, etc. Value proposition? Nice clothes cost money. I haven't bought anything from LTT, but from reviews and from what they've stated they use better fabrics. They use local suppliers for some things, which increase costs. This isn't mass produced like more bargain basement shirts are. These are all reasons the pricing is higher. Their profit margins actually aren't all that high, especially in comparison with other clothing companies. How is he comparing his product to those from established brands? I don't think he's ever compared pricing. He's been open about it being more expensive. That's what happens when you don't have more profitable items to offset the costs of others.

 

A donation is something given as charity. That's not what the merch store is. You're getting something in return.

 

Any decision like this would have been discussed at length. It's not like they suddenly decided to make a backpack without looking into every possible aspect of it. Everything in life carries some form of risk. If you're not willing to take risks you'll never get the possible reward attached to them. I imagine they had agreements in place should there be issues with production runs, as any business should.

 

Why do you think the employees should have a say in the direction of the company? At the end of the day, it is Linus's company. They simply work there. You can say you treat them as family as much as you like, but the bottom line is it was started by him, and he decides the direction he wants to take. People are free to work where they please.

 

Governments are fraught with misappropriated funds, scandals, gross overhead, and numerous other negative attributes. Certainly not something I'd want in my business.

 

1 hour ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

We need to stop glorifying this man. You lay out these qualities to anyone and they'll immediately think whoever that person is, must be a douche. 

I'm a little torn. I can see both sides of it, whereas most people won't even bother trying to view the other side these days.

 

I'd like to see a warranty on the screwdriver, for example. It's expensive, it has many precision moving parts, and many tools have lifetime warranties.

 

LTT is, whether we like to think it or not, a relatively small company producing small batch merchandise. What's he supposed to do? Give a 3 year warranty, when he doesn't know if he'll be reordering if it's not successful? Now, the easy thing to do might be to keep a percentage of units in storage, and if you don't reorder the item, sell them off as "as is" items after the warranty of the last one you've sold expires, but that takes up a ton of space, which also holds a substantial cost; probably far more than simply issuing a refund to the few units that you'll see defects on.

 

Issuing a refund instead of offering a warranty isn't really anti-consumer, and in a small business case, is probably better for both parties.

39 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Pretty much describes every TwitchTuber.  Kids nowadays got some weird fucked up parasocial wiring where they feel compelled to donate (and yes merch sales are a donation with a gift) to already-millionaires like they're buying their close friend coffee.  

By your definition everything you've ever purchased is a donation. Not how it works. Though, you are paying more for most items from a content creator. That happens when you don't buy bulk.

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

There are other tech youtubers which do in depth reviewing, I would personally have a difficult time trusting anything LMG puts out as a scientific review, considering all the sponsored content they put out.

As for your other points, i'm not sure who the merch is geared at, I think the backpack is too expensive though the diehard fans with money are going to buy it anyway.

And LMG is a company, not a charity, in my opinion you shouldn't feel obligated to donate them money. I think if you want to give them money, buying merch would at least give you something in return.

I have doubts of the backpack costing $6 million to develop, but if LTT did spend that much money then they are a large company, although I think it would've been a more wise business decision to partner with a known backpack company for a LTT themed backpack.

 

I think the $6mil would include the stock. So. Wouldn't be surprising. The backpack isn't just LTT themed. It's built and designed from the ground up. Just getting other companies to do the work kind of goes against what their long game plan is. I think the backpack is fairly priced, but it's a little too tech focused for me; if it had more configurable options for clothing storage, I'd be all over it for flights.

[JesseCarl]

Just now, Sorenson said:

Unions are there to make sure employees are treated well and compensated fairly.

This is exactly the misunderstanding that I was pointing out, and that I specifically mentioned lol. You are right that that is a function of a union. It would probably even be fair to say that the primary function of most unions is to make sure that employees are treated well and compensated fairly. That is because most unions are formed in response to employees being treated badly or paid badly. However, that does not mean that this is all a union can do! When you create a union at a company, you can decide how it is structured and what you are trying to do with it. One good thing to do with it is to try to get a say in how the company is run. You will notice that I said it would be even better to have some kind of a co-op. I am talking about democracy. A union can achieve that, but I agree it will never be as good as making employees partial owners.
I think it is naive to say that union is just to make sure that employees are treated well and compensated fairly.

Also union dues? That sounds like something from a Walmart anti union ad lol. If you are creating a union, there is no requirement to have union dues. That would be something to decide if it made sense. If there are union dues, it is because the members of the union decide that there is a good reason to have them. If they would really be no benefit, then you don't need them. Where do you imagine the money from union dues goes, might I ask?

I will accept the criticism about pricing. I do stand by the fact that a merch store is limited in many ways. For example, however competitive you think 250 is in the US, 350 in Europe must certainly be worse. You are right that it is probably not that bad for a tech professional clothing outlet. I am not a tech professional, I am a broke college student. Very bad value proposition for me. (And if it does seem like a good value proposition for you, that is because you have enough money that you don't have to think carefully about how to optimize your purchasing. No problem, I hope to be there one day)

Edited August 8, 2022 by JesseCarl
Bad grammar

[Sorenson]

3 minutes ago, JesseCarl said:

Also union dues? That sounds like something from a Walmart anti union ad lol. If you are creating a union, there is no requirement to have union dues. That would be something to decide if it made sense. If there are union dues, it is because the members of the union decide that there is a good reason to have them. If they would really be no benefit, then you don't need them. Where do you imagine the money from union dues goes, might I ask?

So again this sounds very naive and idealistic. This is straight from Wikipedia: Union dues are a regular payment of money made by members of unions.[1] Dues are the cost of membership; they are used to fund the various activities which the union engages in. Nearly all unions require their members to pay dues. 

 

You can learn more about what Unions actually do Here: 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/labor-union.asp

or here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union

[JesseCarl]

Just now, dizmo said:

A donation is something given as charity. That's not what the merch store is. You're getting something in return.

Let me explain myself. If you are buying LTT merch because it is the best possible item you can buy, then it is not really a donation. If you are buying the screwdriver because you need a screwdriver and it is the best screwdriver on the market, then it is certainly not a donation. But if you buy an LTT shirt because you like LTT and you want to support it, that is a donation. Right? You are buying something that you would not have bought, and you are buying it from LMG because you like and support them. Sure you can't write it off on your taxes, but I think that is clearly still a donation.

[JesseCarl]

Just now, Sorenson said:

 Nearly all unions require their members to pay dues.

I put it to you again, what do you think the dues would be used for? I need a clear and straightforward answer. Because if it something useful that people would want to pay for, then they will pay for it. If it is not, then there is no reason to collect dues.

[Sorenson]

7 minutes ago, JesseCarl said:

I put it to you again, what do you think the dues would be used for? I need a clear and straightforward answer. Because if it something useful that people would want to pay for, then they will pay for it. If it is not, then there is no reason to collect dues.

To pay the union organizers for their time and effort representing the workers, to pay for organizational costs, to rent spaces to have meetings, to hire lawyers to negotiate contracts and represent employees, etc. 
 

Please answer me this, do you even know anyone in a union? 

[dizmo]

10 minutes ago, JesseCarl said:

Let me explain myself. If you are buying LTT merch because it is the best possible item you can buy, then it is not really a donation. If you are buying the screwdriver because you need a screwdriver and it is the best screwdriver on the market, then it is certainly not a donation. But if you buy an LTT shirt because you like LTT and you want to support it, that is a donation. Right? You are buying something that you would not have bought, and you are buying it from LMG because you like and support them. Sure you can't write it off on your taxes, but I think that is clearly still a donation.

Wrong.

You're getting something in return. The shirt. Now, yes, you're deciding to pay a little more for the shirt. But that doesn't make it a donation.

That's like saying that, because I like Turner as a company, the fact that I bought a frame from them (they're a boutique manufacturer, so their prices are higher than large batch companies), that was a donation. It's simply incorrect use of the term entirely.

 

Not sure why you even mention "buying something you would not have bought." That's not even part of the conversation, and an entirely different look on the matter. Stop moving goal posts.

6 minutes ago, JesseCarl said:

I put it to you again, what do you think the dues would be used for? I need a clear and straightforward answer. Because if it something useful that people would want to pay for, then they will pay for it. If it is not, then there is no reason to collect dues.

You have to have a body that advocates for you. More often than not you'd want to join a larger union, that way your voice is louder. I also don't think you entirely grasp what unions are. Linus can't decide if he wants one or not; if the staff decided to unionize, he'd just have to accept that. Unions don't really decide what direction a company is headed in.

Quote

Unions build worker power by helping members stand together for better wages, fair benefits, safe and healthy workplaces, and stable work hours. Unions also help workers gain more rights and power in their workplace – and have more of a say over their working conditions – by serving as a counterbalance to management.

Taken straight from a union website.

[JesseCarl]

Just now, Sorenson said:

Please answer me this, do you even know anyone in a union? 

I do but that does not really seem relevant, and almost slightly immature. All of those things sound like stuff someone might choose to pay for. Curious. Do you know why that is? It is because they choose to pay for them, you absolute muffin. A union is democratic.
From wikipedia: The expenditure of dues is then authorized either by the local union meeting or by the elected leaders of a union.
If you want to know more about how union dues work, I would recommend reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_dues /j

 

You are never wasting money when you pay union dues. There is no big man at the top. That is the whole point.

 

I totally understand where you are coming from though. I hope my not actually annoyed tone is coming through over text. There has been a century long disinformation campaign about unions in the US, and probably elsewhere in the world. As you can imagine, it is in Walmart's best interest if people do not have collective bargaining power, and they have spent a lot of money to try to convince people. If you actually want to learn about it, I would recommend A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn.  That is so incredibly off topic from this thread though, so sorry about that everyone.

[JesseCarl]

Just now, dizmo said:

I also don't think you entirely grasp what unions are. Linus can't decide if he wants one or not; if the staff decided to unionize, he'd just have to accept that. Unions don't really decide what direction a company is headed in.

I do actually know something about the topic of unions. I am not just speaking out of my ass here. Yes, like I said, most unions are formed in response to poor wages, so that is their primary focus. However there is no law that says it has to be. It would be perfectly valid to form a union who's goal was to give employees some say in the direction of the company. However, like I said, some sort of co-op is a better solution. And yes, Linus would just have to accept if a union was formed. I was not saying that he should make his staff form a union or something, I was saying that there is a good reason to form a union even if you have a good boss. Go look back at the first post if you want.

 

Also, that thing about donation is a total straw man. Obviously I was not saying that buying a shirt is a gift of money. Let me be 100% clear on what I am saying so there can be no confusion.
If you need to buy something, LMG will never be the cheapest place to buy it. If you need a shirt, you could absolutely get something cheaper. When you decide to buy a shirt from LMG you are deciding that you want to support them because you like them as a brand. You are giving financial support to LMG by choosing to buy from them instead of from somewhere else. That is what I am referring to as a donation. I hope you can see why I chose that word. It seems to make a fair amount of sense in the context. You have payed more money that you would have otherwise to get a new shirt, and that money went to LMG.
If you don't need a shirt, and you still buy one because you like LMG, than it is even more clearly a donation. (words have more than one meaning you muffin)
Obviously we could conceive of someone who has never watched a LMG video, and just buys the shirt for the design. That would actually not be a donation in any sense. But none of the people who will read this thread, or who watch WAN show fall into that category.

[dizmo]

1 minute ago, JesseCarl said:

I do actually know something about the topic of unions. I am not just speaking out of my ass here. Yes, like I said, most unions are formed in response to poor wages, so that is their primary focus. However there is no law that says it has to be. It would be perfectly valid to form a union who's goal was to give employees some say in the direction of the company. However, like I said, some sort of co-op is a better solution. And yes, Linus would just have to accept if a union was formed. I was not saying that he should make his staff form a union or something, I was saying that there is a good reason to form a union even if you have a good boss. Go look back at the first post if you want.

 

Also, that thing about donation is a total straw man. Obviously I was not saying that buying a shirt is a gift of money. Let me be 100% clear on what I am saying so there can be no confusion.
If you need to buy something, LMG will never be the cheapest place to buy it. If you need a shirt, you could absolutely get something cheaper. When you decide to buy a shirt from LMG you are deciding that you want to support them because you like them as a brand. You are giving financial support to LMG by choosing to buy from them instead of from somewhere else. That is what I am referring to as a donation. I hope you can see why I chose that word. It seems to make a fair amount of sense in the context. You have payed more money that you would have otherwise to get a new shirt, and that money went to LMG.
If you don't need a shirt, and you still buy one because you like LMG, than it is even more clearly a donation. (words have more than one meaning you muffin)
Obviously we could conceive of someone who has never watched a LMG video, and just buys the shirt for the design. That would actually not be a donation in any sense. But none of the people who will read this thread, or who watch WAN show fall into that category.

A cooperative isn't that much better. Could even be worse in a more creative driven business, where people have pretty...grandiose ideas.

I don't agree with unionizing always being the answer. Sure, in some instances, it's useful, but not all.

 

It's not a straw man argument at all, and my example is actually incredibly similar to the situation you, yourself, are describing.

Why is price a factor? Something doesn't have to be the cheapest in order to be the right purchasing decision. Your logic here makes absolutely no sense. Buying something is often a number of reasons, you like the design, you like the company, you like the quality, you need a shirt, etc. Even more ridiculous is your insinuation that if they've never watched the channel, then it's not a donation. The shirt costs the same amount. You can't have it both ways.

 

By your explanation, if you were to buy a shirt from Walmart at $5, but you could have gotten the shirt for $4 at Marks, then you've donated $1 to Walmart.

 

Giving a company financial support because you choose to purchase from them is not a donation.

You are simply using the word incorrectly, regardless of what your intent is.

Quote

Definition of donation

 

: the act or an instance of donating: such as

a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution

b : a free contribution

Please, enlighten me. Which aspect of buying an item is related to the above?

 

Stop violating the rules of the forum. Calling people muffins is unnecessary, condescending, and childish.

[JesseCarl]

Just now, dizmo said:

Stop violating the rules of the forum. Calling people muffins is unnecessary, condescending, and childish.

I'm sorry, I may have failed to convey tone. I have absolutely no bad will towards you or Sorensen. My intention in using the word muffin was to make sure that my tone did not seem too harsh but did convey my mild frustration about the union discussion. I humbly apologize for any miscommunication, and any condescension you might have felt at being referred to as a baked good.

I didn't think we were going to get into the philosophy of definitions here, but I am always up for it. Words mean more than one thing. They also mean more things that is specifically stated in the dictionary definition. For example, if I look at this jif and say woah, its inception, you know what I mean, even though inception actually means beginning.

That is because the word inception has a meaning which does not match the dictionary one, which I was using, and which you were able to tell that I was using. In the same way, when I used the word donation, I was talking about a voluntary financial contribution which showed support for LMG. This apparently was a reasonable enough use of the word, because it was understood and repeated by AnonymousGuy. I don't want to dwell on this to long, because this feels like a kind of obvious point to drive home, but words mean more than their dictionary definitions. Here is the page from Merriam Webster about this very topic. https://www.merriam-webster.com/help/faq-real-words. That is the dictionary you were quoting at me, I think. And when I used the word in a potentially slightly nonstandard way, I explained myself thoroughly, so that another English speaker (AnonymousGuy) was easily able to understand me.

Now I have no idea whether you understood me or not. If you genuinely did not, then I suppose there was no straw-man. But I feel like I made it pretty clear.

 

So long story short, you are simply using the concept of a dictionary definition incorrectly, regardless of what your intent was. /j

 

 

Ok, so now that we have established what I mean by donation, I will address your concerns. If I can buy a $4 dollar shirt from marks, and I know that, and I buy the same shirt for $5 at walmart, because I like walmart as a brand, then yeah, that is totally a donation. If I buy it at walmart to avoid driving to marks, then no, that is not a donation. I don't think this is very complictated. The key factor that makes it a donation is when you make the purchase because you want to support the company. Are you with me? That is why it is different if a viewer buys something because they like the company, versus a non-viewer buying something because they like the design. One of those is a donationi and one is not. Can you tell which is which?

 

Now it is totally possible for a viewer to buy something because they like the design, and not because they want to support the company. This is where the problem comes. The fact that you don't get a warranty, and the fact that it is not priced with economies of scale means that it will be more expensive, and potentially a worse experience than if you were buying the same shirt with the same design from a company who's only business was selling shirts. Obviously, there is no such company selling the shirt, but that is the problem. The value proposition is worse, specifically because it is merch. You still might evaluate the value proposition and decide that it is worth it, but it would be even more worth it if creator warehouse was not a merch brand who was affiliated with LMG, and if they sold in higher volumes. Then they would be able to run tighter margins, and they would be able to depend more on economies of scale. A lot of these problems will go away if LMG gets bigger as well. If it was not an important revenue stream for LMG, then the margins could be tighter. If it was much bigger scale, then it could be worth it to comply with EU regulations, and have a warehouse there. But they are problems now. What you get from LMG is worse than what you could get elsewhere with the same money (in quantity and support, I am not and have never made any comment about quality).

 

Like I said at the top, I really like LTT Labs, and I watch LTT videos regularly. I like Linus. I think he is someone who actually care, and I think that is rare. But I think he needs to recognize that what he is offering from creator warehouse right now is not living up to professional standards, as demonstrated by the fact that he cannot afford to provide a warranty on a 250 dollar bag. And I think it is not a good move to just say that that is ok because he has a good track record. I agree that the track record is good, but it is not fair to your fans to sell them a 250 dollar bag, and not provide a warranty. That is anti-consumer. That is what I have said from the start.

[AnonymousGuy]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

Wrong.

You're getting something in return. The shirt. Now, yes, you're deciding to pay a little more for the shirt. But that doesn't make it a donation.

That's like saying that, because I like Turner as a company, the fact that I bought a frame from them (they're a boutique manufacturer, so their prices are higher than large batch companies), that was a donation. It's simply incorrect use of the term entirely.

My beef is that a lot of the younger audience who buys this stuff don't even understand that they're not paying a little more, they're being exploited to pay a LOT more "because Linus talks about it" (or any TwitchTuber doing the $40 shirt racket).  So "donation with a gift of your choosing" frames it properly.  Or "overpaying to support a content creator".  6 here, half dozen there...same thing.

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, Roswell said:

Some people are incapable of objectively looking at businesses that they use/like. I think it has something to do with poor emotional regulation or something, all logic kinda goes out the window and they empathize with a business as if it's a personal friend, defending it as such.

 

This is a lot truer than you might have thought it be.   And the thing is we see it a lot more on tech forums regarding tech companies than in just about any other industry (cars might be the exception).  The reason this is not unexpected is because it has been postulated (even proven in specific cases) multiple times that screens and video games effect the development of emotional self regulation.    

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, AnonymousGuy said:

My beef is that a lot of the younger audience who buys this stuff don't even understand that they're not paying a little more, they're being exploited to pay a LOT more "because Linus talks about it" (or any TwitchTuber doing the $40 shirt racket).  So "donation with a gift of your choosing" frames it properly.  Or "overpaying to support a content creator".  6 here, half dozen there...same thing.

 

There are a few youtuber's that I've thought I'd like a coffee mug or hoodie from, but when I see their prices I just go, yeah nup.  I just cannot justify that much money on a mug or shirt no matter who's face is on it. 

 

 

Now if 100% of the profit (I mean 100% too not just the sellers share) was going to a decent charity I would likely have a very different feeling about it.

[tkitch]

On 8/8/2022 at 1:20 AM, JesseCarl said:

Let me explain myself. If you are buying LTT merch because it is the best possible item you can buy, then it is not really a donation. If you are buying the screwdriver because you need a screwdriver and it is the best screwdriver on the market, then it is certainly not a donation. But if you buy an LTT shirt because you like LTT and you want to support it, that is a donation. Right? You are buying something that you would not have bought, and you are buying it from LMG because you like and support them. Sure you can't write it off on your taxes, but I think that is clearly still a donation.

No.  Just no.

 

 

So, your thought process of "I'm giving money to a YT Personality, so I'm donating"

Is entirely, 100% factually incorrect.  You're buying a product, at a bit of a premium, to support someone's business ventures.  That's literally what's happening.

 

As for "overpriced"?  I've gone shopping, and because I'm tall?  I've found shops where shirts that fit me START AT 50$ USD each.

 

Good Clothing ain't cheap.  Good tools, etc.  Doubly so.  

[Mojo-Jojo]

I like your post. It's long, but well-written and coherent. I have one point of criticism on your feedback, and it is that your point hinges on the assumption that the Merch Store subsidizes LMG as a whole. From their 2020 video, Merch is only 15% of the revenue. Revenue, not profit.

 

I'd say merch is actually quite a low margin, considering they have to have prototypes made, engineering hours put into the designs, pay for storage, down payment for the merch to be made to begin with, etc.

[Ravendarat]

On 8/8/2022 at 2:19 AM, AnonymousGuy said:

My beef is that a lot of the younger audience who buys this stuff don't even understand that they're not paying a little more, they're being exploited to pay a LOT more "because Linus talks about it" (or any TwitchTuber doing the $40 shirt racket).  So "donation with a gift of your choosing" frames it properly.  Or "overpaying to support a content creator".  6 here, half dozen there...same thing.

Disagree with it being ALOT more. Im a big guy that shops at a big and tall store for XXXL shirts, you know what a the average price of a XXXL graphic shirt is at a Big and Tall store is? $40 CAD, Ltt Shirt is 30 USD, so at the exchange rate its just slightly less, and yes I understand shipping is involved, but if I buy 3-4 shirts, which I do when I need them, we are talking adding on about 3 USD a shirt on average. So now we are 33 usd. $42.55 CAD at the current exchange rate. So 2.55 extra for a shirt that I like is not ridiculous. Also to note, the LTT shirts definitely fit better and last longer than the majority of the ones I have bought at the local stores. Not always, but generally. I also know that when you can buy a M shirt the world is your oyster and you can find $10 shirts everywhere but If you are a big guy that changes