China's SMIC semiconductor manufacturer achieves "breakthrough", producing 7nm chips despite sanctions - Update: moving on to 5nm

[Delicieuxz]

Brushing off US sanctions meant to throttle China's semiconductor development, Chinese chip manufacturer SMIC has managed to produce 7nm SoCs for the MinerVa Bitcoin Miner.

 

Bloomberg: China’s Top Chipmaker Achieves Breakthrough Despite US Curbs – SMIC has started shipping 7nm chips, TechInsights says

Non-paywalled version of the Bloomberg article: China’s Top Chipmaker Achieves Breakthrough Despite US Curbs

Quote

Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp. has likely advanced its production technology by two generations, defying US sanctions intended to halt the rise of China’s largest chipmaker.

 

The Shanghai-based manufacturer is shipping Bitcoin-mining semiconductors built using 7-nanometer technology, industry watcher TechInsights wrote in a blog post on Tuesday. That’s well ahead of SMIC’s established 14nm technology, a measure of fabrication complexity in which narrower transistor widths help produce faster and more efficient chips. Since late 2020, the US has barred the unlicensed sale to the Chinese firm of equipment that can be used to fabricate semiconductors of 10nm and beyond,

 

Tech Insights: SMIC 7nm technology found in MinerVa Bitcoin Miner – Development highlights China’s growing local options in response to international sanctions

Quote

Despite not having access to the most advanced equipment technologies as a result of sanctions currently in place, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC) appears to have used 7nm technology to manufacture the MinerVa Bitcoin Miner system on chip (SoC).

 

This is the most advanced technology product TechInsights has seen from SMIC so far and may be leading to a true 7nm process that incorporates scaled logic and memory bitcells. It also has key implications for Chinese chip companies, as it helps to reduce China’s reliance on Western technologies during this time of restricted access.

 

SemiAnalysis: China’s SMIC Is Shipping 7nm Foundry ASICs

Quote

SMIC, China’s largest foundry has slowly been catching up to TSMC, Samsung, and various western foundries in process technology. They are rapidly approaching position as the world’s 3rd largest foundry and have higher margins than the current number 3, GlobalFoundries. SMIC has achieved this through a combination of large subsidies from the state, poaching TSMC talent, and tremendous home-grown expertise. Their chips ship in large volumes to a variety of use cases from smartphones to the world’s fastest supercomputer. The foundry has now quietly released and started mass production of their 7nm process node dubbed N+2.

 

 

With Chinese chip manufacturing progressing and the US investing in domestic chip production, the future of chip production looks to be a lot more decentralised and competitive. I hope that it will result in more innovation and lower prices.

 

 

 

September update:

 

China is reportedly also working on 5nm now.

 

SMIC Mass Produces 14nm Nodes, Advances To 5nm, 7nm

Shanghai confirms 14-nm chips being mass produced now

 

Quote

Shanghai-based firms have achieved mass production of semiconductors with 14-nm process and made breakthroughs in 90-nm lithography machines, 5-nm etching machines, 12-inch large silicon wafers, central processing units and 5G chips, Wu Jincheng, director of the Shanghai Municipal Commission of Economy and Digitalization, said at a press conference on Wednesday.

 

It marks the first official recognition of the ability of Chinese companies to mass produce 14-nm chips, Xiang Ligang, an independent technology analyst, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

 

The validation also comes as a powerful response to an expanded US blockade on high-end chip exports to China, which will only accelerate China's breakthroughs in core technology, experts said.

 

"The broader the US blockades are, the faster that China will research and develop its own technology," Xiang said.

 

Quote

With the completion of Shanghai's industry cluster for the 14-nm chips, more advanced projects in the 7- and 5-nm processes will be accelerated, Chen said.

 

[Curufinwe_wins]

Do we have data/claims on the actual sizes/performance? Obviously anyone can claim whatever breakthrough they want and use any label at any time. Intel 7 *cough* *cough*

[Brooksie359]

This seems ironic that the first 7nm is going to crypto mining right after the crash and as China has laws against mining as well. 

[Delicieuxz]

3 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Do we have data/claims on the actual sizes/performance? Obviously anyone can claim whatever breakthrough they want and use any label at any time. Intel 7 *cough* *cough*

The report isn't based on claims by SMIC, but on teardown analysis by Tech Insights, and corroboration by Bloomberg.

 

 

https://semianalysis.substack.com/p/chinas-smic-is-shipping-7nm-foundry

Quote

We say quietly as this didn’t come directly from SMIC, but rather the reverse engineering and teardown firm TechInsights who purchased the chip on the open market and sent it to their labs. SMIC likely has not discussed this publicly on earnings reports as they are afraid of blowback. To be abundantly clear, China’s SMIC is shipping a foundry process with commercially available chips in the open market which are more advanced than any American or European company. While the US has high hopes for Intel to be the savior, there are no Intel 7 class foundry chips commercially available for purchase currently and they still have to build out their foundry operations. The most advanced American or European foundry produced chips are based on GlobalFoundries 12nm.

[DuckDodgers]

Process nodes between different vendors are not directly comparable for performance, power and density. SMIC was known to be able to produce some quantities of their "7nm" parts, but without EUV lithography the output currently is limited in volume and mostly applicable to simple ASIC designs. Certainly not competitive to the established market leaders, but at least they could claim some nominal parity achievement. 

[Dracarris]

12 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Do we have data/claims on the actual sizes/performance? Obviously anyone can claim whatever breakthrough they want and use any label at any time. Intel 7 *cough* *cough*

Tech Insights is usually pretty solid. They are highly specialized on silicon reverse-engineering.

[williamcll]

Just in time for TSMC and Samsung to raise their prices.

[thechinchinsong]

Is this the same vein of news as I've seen where the SMIC 7nm process is basically a reverse engineered TSMC 7nm process? SMIC has been legally pursued by TSMC in the past for copying designs, so this wouldn't be the first time. It'll be interesting where SMIC can improve on this process with all the embargoes and scrutiny as well as how TSMC will respond.

[mr moose]

It was only 2 years ago I had a largish debate here regarding china's ability to develop competitive nodes.  As much as I don't like it and even if this isn't exactly the same, it is still another example of how close they are to not being reliant on other countries for technology.   

 

 

[leadeater]

27 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It was only 2 years ago I had a largish debate here regarding china's ability to develop competitive nodes.  As much as I don't like it and even if this isn't exactly the same, it is still another example of how close they are to not being reliant on other countries for technology.   

Do they still use ASML equipment though? Because right now everyone is basically tied to them.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Do they still use ASML equipment though? Because right now everyone is basically tied to them.

No idea,  My understanding is that while ASML are still selling gear to china, it was that China was moving away from any from of dependence on other countries, which I assume would include the tools.  

[Rauten]

18 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Do they still use ASML equipment though? Because right now everyone is basically tied to them.

12 minutes ago, mr moose said:

No idea,  My understanding is that while ASML are still selling gear to china

I was under the impression ASML was forbidden from supplying their machines to state-owned Chinese corps? Was I horrendously wrong?

 

Edit: Ah ok, quick Googling and I find my answer -- they can sell to China, except for EUV. And the US is trying to pressure the Netherlands to impose tighter restrictions.

 

At the end of the day, it's not Taiwan that rules the chips -- it's the Dutch! <cue European Anthem in clog-minor>

[leadeater]

5 minutes ago, Rauten said:

I was under the impression ASML was forbidden from supplying their machines to state-owned Chinese corps? Was I horrendously wrong?

ASML is Dutch, postulations and complaints from a certain other country is just talk basically. I doubt ASML will do anything.

 

ASML is 90%+ of the world's EUV equipment supplier, lesser but similar for DUV. I had a look and could really only find four other companies; KLA , Applied Materials, Nikon and Cannon.

 

Quote

KLA Corp offers industry-leading equipment and services for different applications across the semiconductor and nanoelectronics industries. Chipmakers rely on KLA’s advanced process control and process-enabling solutions to develop wafers, reticles, integrated circuits, circuit boards, and flat panel displays.

 

The company collaborates with customers globally to develop state-of-the-art inspection and metrology tech for semiconductors, LEDs, and photovoltaic solutions. KLA Corp is one of the best alternatives to ASML.

 

Quote

Both Applied Materials and ASML cater to the chipmaking industry. But ASML specializes in EUVand lithography machines, while Applied Materials develops equipment for semiconductor fabrication and display panels for PCs, TVs, and phones. Supply chain issues eroded 31% of Applied Materials’ shares between Jan and May 2022.

 

Quote

Nikon is a Japanese multinational corporation specializing in optics and imaging products. The company develops deep ultraviolet light (DUV)machines used in chipmaking. In 2021, Nikon had 20,100 employees and accumulated $3.93 billion in revenue.

 

Nikon’s DUV machines can be used as an alternative to ASML’s EUV lithography systems. Both Nikon and ASML compete in the DUV market. But ASML has a monopoly in EUV and dominates the DUV immersion lithography segment with higher profit margins.

 

In 2020, ASML sold 68 advanced DUV immersion systems worth €4 billion. The company made€5.4 billion from DUV machines versus€4.4 billion from EUV. Nikon tried to produce EUV machines but failed. In Q2 2021, Nikon sold three semiconductor lithography systems. Nikon is one of the top alternatives to ASML for DUV machines

 

Quote

Both Canon and ASML develop DUV lithography machines, but ASML dominates the EUV market. Canon made a valiant effort to catch up to ASML in 2005 and 2006. The company sold only three EUV systems in 2008 and 2009. In 2011, Canon exited the EUV market after failing to deliver a single EUV shipment in 2 years. ASMLcontrols 90% of the global EUV lithography market.

 

Chipmakers use Canon’s DUV machines instead of ASML’s EUV systems to develop chips for less powerful electronic devices. Canon is one of the top ASML competitors in the DUV market

 

[mr moose]

17 minutes ago, Rauten said:

I was under the impression ASML was forbidden from supplying their machines to state-owned Chinese corps? Was I horrendously wrong?

No you were not wrong, they have been banned from supplying EUV (required to make 7nm), but not DUV.   However:

 

In the last 4 days the US government has been pushing to ban ASML from selling anything to China (the dutch government haven't commented yet that I am aware).    

 

So I assume largely because they haven't been able to buy the ASML gear they need to do what they have just done (make 7nm of anything) means that they either A) stole it, B) the dutch sold it them any way or C) they developed their own UV tooling to do the job.

 

Anything is possible if you have enough money and spies.

 

EDIT: I take that back, apparently you can make 7nm on DUV, I need to read a little slower sometimes.

 

 

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

No you were not wrong, they have been banned from supplying EUV (required to make 7nm), but not DUV.   However:

 

In the last 4 days the US government has been pushing to ban ASML from selling anything to China (the dutch government haven't commented yet that I am aware).    

 

So I assume largely because they haven't been able to buy the ASML gear they need to do what they have just done (make 7nm of anything) means that they either A) stole it, B) the dutch sold it them any way or C) they developed their own UV tooling to do the job.

 

Quote

China was the largest buyer of semiconductor equipment in 2021 for the second consecutive year, with spending surging as much as 58% to $29.62 billion. The figure outpaced South Korea's $24.98 billion and $24.94 billion in Taiwan, data from industry association SEMI showed.

China's two top chipmakers, SMIC and Hua Hong Semiconductor, together control about 10% of the global market in the contract chipmaking sector.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/ASML-warns-chip-gear-ban-against-China-will-disrupt-supply-chain

 

ASML is still selling plenty to SMIC and Hua Hong Semiconductor

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/ASML-warns-chip-gear-ban-against-China-will-disrupt-supply-chain

 

ASML is still selling plenty to SMIC and Hua Hong Semiconductor

 

I heard about ASML warning regarding supply etc, but I did not know China was the largest buyer.   I would love to know how much of that purchasing is needed for their development versus how much is needed for current supply/demand.

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I heard about ASML warning regarding supply etc, but I did not know China was the largest buyer.   I would love to know how much of that purchasing is needed for their development versus how much is needed for current supply/demand.

Given how massive and complicated these machines are I'm sure in country development is happening but it'll take a really long time. Like it's one thing to get these machines and then be able to use it to make competitive silicon products, which has proved to be hard enough as it is, but I would imagine making such equipment is a whole level of difficulty up from that, and that's just DUV.

 

I didn't realize how many tried and gave up EUV.

 

Edit:

Or that Cannon and Nikon were fabrication equipment suppliers lol

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Given how massive and complicated these machines are I'm sure in country development is happening but it'll take a really long time. Like it's one thing to get these machines and then be able to use it to make competitive silicon products, which has proved to be hard enough as it is, but I would imagine making such equipment is a whole level of difficulty up from that, and that's just DUV.

 

I didn't realize how many tried and gave up EUV.

 

Edit:

Or that Cannon and Nikon were fabrication equipment suppliers lol

I get that there are a lot of companies that tried and failed, however we are not talking about a single company the size of Cannon or similar, we are talking about a whole country with arguably the worlds largest economy and a deep desire to control/conquer everything.   

 

I understand this is not a small task, but neither is their financial and manpower resources. 

[leadeater]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I get that there are a lot of companies that tried and failed, however we are not talking about a single company the size of Cannon or similar, we are talking about a whole country with arguably the worlds largest economy and a deep desire to control/conquer everything.   

I know, I was just saying I didn't know how many gave up in the first place. I knew ASML was the be all and end all but I really wasn't that aware of other companies that compete with them or tried to. I guess that just goes to show how dominant they are in the market.

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

And those 7nm are here in the room with us right now?

[thechinchinsong]

2 hours ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

And those 7nm are here in the room with us right now?

No, probably not, but I imagine you could purchase a MinerVa miner with that 7nm process.

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

On 7/26/2022 at 4:41 PM, thechinchinsong said:

No, probably not, but I imagine you could purchase a MinerVa miner with that 7nm process.

I do not dispute that SMIC have a process that can do decent chips with a workable yield. It's just that nm are just marketing terms anyway and I speculate SMIC process is nowhere near the density of an Intel 10nm (renamed I7) or TSMC 7nm.

 

The jump in complexity and cost between quad patterning in UV and EUV for a TSMC 7nm class process is enormous. Just like when TSMC and Samsung were behind Intel in density, they skipped a node name to portray parity with Intel. Or like Intel has done with renaming the I7 process to portray parity with TSMC 7nm process (which seems to at actual parity).

[LAwLz]

It is always fascinating to see threads like this, because it becomes very apparent which people actually read the news articles before commenting, and which people just comment based on their feelings and hopes.

 

 

Very good job by SMIC. I am not a fan of the things the US are doing to the rest of the world, such as trying to force other countries to be pawns in their political trade wars, so in a sense I think it is good that China are marching forward with their own foundries. Hopefully this will result in more competition too. The foundry business market is not exactly in a healthy spot right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if chips from this foundry ends up mostly being used for devices sold in China though.

[Rauten]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

but I wouldn't be surprised if chips from this foundry ends up mostly being used for devices sold in China though.

Hhrrmm... I think it would depend on yields?

I mean, the Chinese government has its hand so far up SMIC's ass, it's basically a new Muppets character -- obviously their main priority is going to be securing enough chips for their own needs and purposes.

Eventually though, if it works ok and the yields are plentiful enough, I can see SMIC selling their services worldwide. Why wouldn't they want to bring more business, and therefore, more profits, to their country?

 

What baffles me is how it took this long for everyone - China, US, EU - to actually start working on securing more "local" fabs and their own chip supplies.
Specially the EU! US at least has Intel, and Global Foundries! Our saving grace is that we have ASML, but we need our own foundrieS, plural, stat!

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

20 minutes ago, Rauten said:

What baffles me is how it took this long for everyone - China, US, EU - to actually start working on securing more "local" fabs and their own chip supplies.
Specially the EU! US at least has Intel, and Global Foundries! Our saving grace is that we have ASML, but we need our own foundrieS, plural, stat!

For the same reason it took so long to mitigate dependency on single supplier of fossil fuels. Globalization and centralization are cheaper and more efficient (at least until the supply chain gets disrupted). Founderies are unthinkably expensive to setup.

 

In europe we have quite a few manufacturers for cheaper processes, like the 28nm that is now mostly used for cheap microcontrollers and specialized processes with bigger wafers to manufacture power FET and IGBT for electic cars, inverters, etc... I think we still use even older processes bigger than 28nm because the masks are cheaper and for smaller runs it makes sense to use them. The leading edge processes are getting so expensive the next jump might not even give a better cost per transistor, so manufacturers are resorting to play lego stacking of smaller dies to optimize use of fabs and keep moore going.

 

The pandemics and geopolitical tensions have spurred EU, USA, China to funnel tens of billions to Intel, TSMC and Samsung to build local fabs. We might enjoy an oversupply of leading edge chips five years down the line thanks to all this government subsized expansion of capacity.

The image below is a ST microelectronics wafer I have at home (I think it's some kind of MEMS). ST guys brought a batch of defective wafers with them when they came to the uni and allowed us to take them.