USB-C updates to 240Watts

[GhostRoadieBL]

Summary

 

 The new USB-C 2.1 standard is coming and bringing 48volts at 5amps.

 

In May 2021 the USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF) released the USB-C v2.1 update allowing Extended Power Range (EPR) standard and further convoluting the USB-C v2.1 standard previously limited to 100 Watts.

 

Quotes

Quote

Club3D, a small retailer, has launched a new cable  which can deliver up to 240W of power. The company has three cables ready to choose; two which are fully featured for transmission of power and data and video, and another which is limited to power and slower (USB 2.0) data.

 

 

My thoughts

Great for laptops, really hoping to see some higher power usb-c soldering irons.

 

Sources

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-type-c-21-cables-start-to-become-available-for-240w-power-delivery

[emosun]

I'm just excited for the future "my usb cable started on fire" posts.

 

I gotta admit ever since I came to the realization in my own career that "some people are hired to innovate regardless of actual improvement and have to make SOMETHING just to justify their job" , I've learned to always be on the lookout for those job justifying advancements.

[da na]

RTX 40 series gonna use 4 USB-C connectors

[seon123]

21 minutes ago, emosun said:

I'm just excited for the future "my usb cable started on fire" posts.

 

I gotta admit ever since I came to the realization in my own career that "some people are hired to innovate regardless of actual improvement and have to make SOMETHING just to justify their job" , I've learned to always be on the lookout for those job justifying advancements.

If you can't see the use for a standardised way to deliver up to 240W through USB, that's on you, not them

[AbydosOne]

34 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

really hoping to see some higher power usb-c soldering irons

The heck kind of soldering are you doing?

[GhostRoadieBL]

Just now, AbydosOne said:

The heck kind of soldering are you doing?

The normal one I have is 90watts and takes forever to hit 350C for surface mount components and lead free solder.

 

I can still do most things at 210C but 300+ gets cleaner connections.

[emosun]

25 minutes ago, seon123 said:

If you can't see the use for a standardised way to deliver up to 240W through USB

I can't think of a thing that needs 240 watts that also NEEDS to be usb.

Like I sure hope whatever this is for wasn't already being done with any other power connector made within the last 120 years.

[AlTech]

3 minutes ago, emosun said:

I can't think of a thing that needs 240 watts that also NEEDS to be usb.

Well it doesn't need to be USB but it allows gaming laptops to also use USB Type C for charging.

3 minutes ago, emosun said:

Like I sure hope whatever this is for wasn't already being done with any other power connector made within the last 120 years.

So improving upon a ton of proprietary charging connectors and unifying them to make a standard in the form of USB-C is a bad thing?

[emosun]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

So improving upon a ton of proprietary charging connectors and unifying them to make a standard in the form of USB-C is a bad thing?

no , trying to combine a high wattage connector into a tiny data connection port instead of adding data lines to the hundreds of other connectors that already exist is a stupid thing. assuming everything should be usb is a stupid thing.

I do not consider trying to combine every single port into a single port that does everything a smart idea.

Can't wait for them to add a tiny hollow tube into usb c so it can carry water and i can use it as a terrible garden hose instead of the "ProPRitAry gArdEn hOSe" connector. Watering my plants will take longer but at least my tiny brain won't mix up two different things anymore

[da na]

48 minutes ago, AbydosOne said:

The heck kind of soldering are you doing?

Soldering bridge cables probably

[Kisai]

33 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Well it doesn't need to be USB but it allows gaming laptops to also use USB Type C for charging.

So improving upon a ton of proprietary charging connectors and unifying them to make a standard in the form of USB-C is a bad thing?

Dell already does 240w, it uses two USB-C cables and a proprietary dock that a 240w power supply goes into.

 

Like it has to be pointed out that 240w over USB-C for the sake of being USB-C is stupid. As a standard charging port, it's fine. But if your laptop takes 240w, you buying a dock just to convert the standard 240w brick into a 240w USB-c connector makes no sense, You're just wasting the port at that point, and wasting money on a dock you don't use.

 

 

[seon123]

48 minutes ago, emosun said:

I can't think of a thing that needs 240 watts that also NEEDS to be usb.

Like I sure hope whatever this is for wasn't already being done with any other power connector made within the last 120 years.

Well, for me, it would be very convenient. While not necessary, it would be nice to be able to just plug in a single cable into my laptop (150W power brick, so USB PD not supported) to charge it, and to connect my monitor and all of my peripherals. Being able to plug in any laptop into any such setup with a single cable instead of having to mess around is a very nice convenience. USB already supports display output and 100W PD, so increasing the max power would just allow more laptop setups to use a single cable for everything.

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

Well it doesn't need to be USB but it allows gaming laptops to also use USB Type C for charging.

So improving upon a ton of proprietary charging connectors and unifying them to make a standard in the form of USB-C is a bad thing?

I think the bigger problem is that when you have one standard with so many configurations it's hard to know what configuration your cord is. I mean it would be like if displayport 1.4 and 2.0 were just called displayport 1.4 even though they are clearly different. 

[Zodiark1593]

4 hours ago, emosun said:

I can't think of a thing that needs 240 watts that also NEEDS to be usb.

Like I sure hope whatever this is for wasn't already being done with any other power connector made within the last 120 years.

Gaming-centric Laptops and high powered, SFF desktops and SBCs are a couple standouts. Power some monitors and entire TVs from USB-C. Rapidly charge larger battery banks. 

USB soldering irons would also be a cool idea tbh. Carry a much smaller kit

 

[GhostRoadieBL]

3 hours ago, seon123 said:

. Being able to plug in any laptop into any such setup with a single cable instead of having to mess around is a very nice convenience.

This is just like my use, I love being able to carry 1 charger instead of one for each device (or have to hunt for an outlet when I can use a battery bank}

Between laptop, phone, camera, headphones, soldering iron a single usb-c cable and battery bank is great to save space. More Watts just means I can carry more powerful devices.

[emosun]

15 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Gaming-centric Laptops and high powered, SFF desktops and SBCs are a couple standouts. Power some monitors and entire TVs from USB-C. Rapidly charge larger battery banks.

none of these things require a usb port to do though

[emosun]

3 hours ago, seon123 said:

so increasing the max power would just allow more laptop setups to use a single cable for everything.

yeah i don't consider that an upgrade , i consider that a major downgrade

[cmndr]

4 hours ago, emosun said:

I can't think of a thing that needs 240 watts that also NEEDS to be usb.

Like I sure hope whatever this is for wasn't already being done with any other power connector made within the last 120 years.

Monitor. Speakers.

If your set up is power -> dock -> [laptop, monitor -> speakers] you could conceivably pull 240W on parts of the chain during transient peaks. Heck with the way GPUs are headed the LAPTOP could pull 240W during transient peaks.

 

Now, this isn't all a strict need but there are some benefits to cable consolidation and having handshake protocols at each end of the wire.

[Zodiark1593]

34 minutes ago, emosun said:

none of these things require a usb port to do though

For monitors, the benefits are less cables, as you would have the single cable handle both power and display. This would also allow the omission of the display's own PSU, potentially improving reliability if the host system is using a good power supply.

 

For laptops and SFFs, I don't think I would lament the loss of barrel plugs. The way they're implemented, the cable is part of the PSU, meaning if the cable gets damaged, the entire thing needs replacing. I would very much prefer for barrel plugs to go away entirely in favor of USB-C, as this allows the user to easily replace damaged cables, and share a single power supply among a multitude of devices. (I've four different-sized barrel plug chargers/devices in my bedroom here, plus a couple other proprietary units, none of which are interchangeable, which sucks for clutter and makes replacement a pain in the ass) The chief disadvantage is that it's on the consumer to obtain a properly speced unit and cable, though I feel this an acceptable tradeoff.

 

Point being that the higher power limit on USB-C can help in allowing it to displace barrel plugs and other such standards that lack a lot of interchangeability.

[emosun]

2 hours ago, cmndr said:

Monitor. Speakers.

neither of which require usb

2 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

This would also allow the omission of the display's own PSU, potentially improving reliability if the host system is using a good power supply.

Well that would actually be backward. Two power supplies would increase reliability as one failing would allow the other to function. What you've created with a usb power source is less redundancy , which is a down grade for reliability. The two separate power supplies would have to be half as reliable to equalize to the higher quality power supply. Not only that , but they would both have to fail instead of just one failing.

2 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Point being that the higher power limit on USB-C can help in allowing it to displace barrel plugs and other such standards that lack a lot of interchangeability.

this would be an excellent take if barrel jack were the only type of electrical power connector that existed.

and again........ I do not consider a device with a single port for everything a smart idea. I consider it a very dumb apple esc idea to have zero redundancy.

[DoctorNick]

8 hours ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

The normal one I have is 90watts and takes forever to hit 350C for surface mount components and lead free solder.

 

I can still do most things at 210C but 300+ gets cleaner connections.

Get a new soldering iron then. I use a TS100 and solder up to 450C. Takes 30 sec or so with 65W PSU. 

Edit like this: 

 

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

meaning if the cable gets damaged, the entire thing needs replacing.

Not true.

If anything a barrel plug makes replacing a proken barrel easier, or extending the wire an even more simple task if needed.

Cause it's a cheap, 2 wires to solder away solution. Can't mistake them even if you tried.

 

 

[cmndr]

1 hour ago, emosun said:

neither of which require usb

In a world where there's a push for decreased cable clutter, increased reliability and adding a sensor to both ends of a cable gets cheaper and cheaper...

Why would you want to stick with legacy methods of power that have 0 fail safes if there's damage to a cable or end point?

[emosun]

35 minutes ago, cmndr said:

In a world where there's a push for decreased cable clutter, increased reliability and adding a sensor to both ends of a cable gets cheaper and cheaper...

But never cheaper than no sensor. Also stop typing reliability as adding more links to the chain is the opposite of reliability. I'd go into more detail on that but it's not worth typing when the person reading it is just forming their response instead of absorbing or processing the information.
 

36 minutes ago, cmndr said:

Why would you want to stick with legacy methods of power that have 0 fail safes if there's damage to a cable or end point?

Because fuses and circuit breakers have existed for over 100 years and support a lot more than a measly 240 watts

Then again i have no idea where most people here are from so theres a high likely hood fuses and circuit breakers may not be a thing in that aera. But in any case I don't think i'll be jumpstarting a car with a usb c cable any time soon so at this point i'd recommend agree to disagree on the usefulness of this low wattage cable.

[Doobeedoo]

Quite awesome. For laptops it will be great both for power also data. Finally for Type C be THE standard and hopefully stop seeing old connector.

Also we've seen it demoed for smartphone charging, that will be some super fast charging that's for sure.