DMA - EU does what Epic don't (proposal)

[Mark Kaine]

 

Summary

 Apple users rejoice as they are finally allowed to do what everyone else does , sideloading and accessing third party stores, if this goes through and I dont really  know why it wouldnt. Especially in conjunction with other, similar new planned laws in the EU.

 

Quote

European lawmakers have provisionally agreed upon a new law that would force Apple to allow user access to third-party app stores and permit the sideloading of apps on iPhones and iPads, among other sweeping changes designed to make the digital sector fairer and more competitive.

 

My thoughts

 Well, I might be buying an iphone in the future, as the inability to use it as I like was always the biggest obvious hurdle to do so.

 

Sources

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/03/25/eu-provisionally-agrees-dma-law-apple-app-store/

[williamcll]

Sideloading is gonna make jailbreaking easier again, thank goodness.

[Arika]

fingers crossed.

[Mark Kaine]

7 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Sideloading is gonna make jailbreaking easier again, thank goodness.

I expect apple to fight nail and tooth against this, but I also expect EU not to give a hoot (especially due to other anti-monopolistic laws being planned as well) 

[WhitetailAni]

Fun fact: the US proposed this already. Back in 2021.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/2710

Just... that's all they've done. Introduced it to the Senate.

8 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Sideloading is gonna make jailbreaking easier again, thank goodness.

Hope you're on i(Pad)OS 15.1 or lower

[Mark Kaine]

12 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

Fun fact: the US proposed this already. Back in 2021.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/2710

Just... that's all they've done. Introduced it to the Senate.

I think they (EU) are serious though, this proposal is big - and long overdue imo.

 

Quote

The DMA's broad scope also features several other demands that tech companies will have to abide by and which would surely impact Apple's services and platforms on multiple fronts. According to the proposed law, companies with a value of more than €75 billion ($83 billion), annual sales of €7.5 billion, and at least 45 million monthly users will meet its "gatekeeper" criteria

ie. they will also have to open up messaging services (and thats not only for apple)

[WhitetailAni]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

I think they (EU) are serious though, this proposal is big - and long overdue imo.

The one thing I'm hoping for is that it's NOT a setting in i(Pad)OS 15.5 and above or something.

I'd rather it be that Apple releases an official sideloading program or something and allows Apple IDs to sideload apps for an unlimited length of time, with no app limit - currently it's three apps per device, with a limit of a week for free dev accounts. A paid dev account removes the app limit and lets apps stay signed for as long as your subscription lasts - a year, and it's $99/year.

A paid dev account doesn't remove app restrictions anymore; but it still adds the other benefits like publishing apps to the App Store, being able to use App Store Connect (different from AppleConnect), access to special dev events and event content, etc.

[AndreiArgeanu]

If this goes through and you can actually side load apps on iOS in a way that isn't extremely convoluted or locked behind a paywall I'd definitely consider buying an iPhone as my next device. Makes me wonder, would or could Apple somehow region lock this feature to EU devices only to try and keep their devices closed for as long as they possibly can in other countries where the legislation doesn't apply?

[WhitetailAni]

1 minute ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

Makes me wonder, would or could Apple somehow region lock this feature to EU devices only to try and keep their devices closed for as long as they possibly can in other countries where the legislation doesn't apply?

I think they could perhaps, due to region codes.

Every iPhone has a model number, such as my iPhone 7 with MN8R2LL/A, which means it's an American-region phone. afaik this is only used for SIM activation, but given that Apple has to activate every iPhone via Albert, I don't doubt that they could enable sideloading only for some devices and Apple IDs.

 

Will they do this? Maybe, maybe not. There will be ways around it but this is Apple; they'll make it as hard as they can.

[gjsman]

1 hour ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

If this goes through and you can actually side load apps on iOS in a way that isn't extremely convoluted or locked behind a paywall I'd definitely consider buying an iPhone as my next device. Makes me wonder, would or could Apple somehow region lock this feature to EU devices only to try and keep their devices closed for as long as they possibly can in other countries where the legislation doesn't apply?

If a huge region announces a new rule (like Europe), most companies comply globally because it's easier to do and because it doesn't risk bad PR.

 

However... knowing Apple, they might try to lock it down to European-sold devices. However, remember that there are bills in the Senate and House right now that, although not a high priority, would do similar to Europe's plan. To have separate rules for Europe would be begging Congress to immediately pass them, defeating the point of resistance. Better to comply voluntarily and avoid getting the laws passed (so you can bend them in America if you please) than just accelerating their passage.

[WolframaticAlpha]

inb4 thread gets derailed and locked.

 

It is stuff like this which makes me want to loive in the eurozone. I just bought a 12 mini and miss so many things that I can do on Android. Sure it is pretty smooth, but I have seen smoother(wp). Man being able to sideload apps would be really awesome.

 

Another potential advantage of sideloading is that you no longer need to pay apples idiotic 99 dollar price for loading apps for more than 7 days

[Romelus_Eva]

Wow this is big, it makes me so proud to live in the EU. I really hope that this goes forward and gets implemented very soon. On other platforms the Apple bots (their customers) are already hard at work protesting against this with their incomprehensible arguments.

[Levent]

This changes barely anything. If Apple is legally forced to allow third party stores and side loading, they can introduce a system where phone checks the app for signatures and blocks installations of apps they dont want.

[mecarry30]

They just won't comply lmao

[Donut417]

8 hours ago, FakeKGB said:

There will be ways around it but this is Apple; they'll make it as hard as they can.

 

 

Considering the thread I have linked I think Apple seen the writing on the wall. They probably figure if they cant get the 30% from devs, they will just get it from the consumer. Because if side loading becomes a thing it wont be long before a 3rd party App Store crops up. Kinda like the Amazon App Store on Android phones. 

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, mecarry30 said:

They just won't comply lmao

Quote

if a gatekeeper violates the rules laid down in the legislation, it risks a fine of up to 10% of its total global turnover. For a repeat offense, a fine of up to 20% of its global turnover may be imposed.

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

 

 

Considering the thread I have linked I think Apple seen the writing on the wall. They probably figure if they cant get the 30% from devs, they will just get it from the consumer. Because if side loading becomes a thing it wont be long before a 3rd party App Store crops up. Kinda like the Amazon App Store on Android phones. 

Honestly I doubt a significant amount of their customers will actually sideload. I mean a big appeal about Apple is that it's simple so to ask those types of people to sodeload is probably not going to happen. If anything the few people who sodeload will the tech savvy who might have even been an android user previously and switched now that sideloading is allowed. So probably not a bug hit and they might even break even if enough people buy their devices now that they allow sideloading. Granted I don't doubt Apple with try and fight this. 

[saltycaramel]

Rich (and secure) instant messaging interoperability doesn’t sound as technically trivial as Linus (from WAN) thinks it is..and it would definitely stifle innovation if the various IM protocols constrained their feature expansion in order to stay cross-compatible.

[Mark Kaine]

4 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Honestly I doubt a significant amount of their customers will actually sideload

At least not initially… 

 

I wonder if apple didnt do a self own here by not being more proactive? Like if they implemented these necessary changes by themselves they could have done a google like warning about "unauthorized sources" but apple style, now they might be forced to do it in a certain way…

 

Google also has the option to allow unauthorized app installation one time or unlimited, maybe even that isnt in cards for apple now. Even though, there will probably be some freedom for implementation.  

[Arika]

40 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

Rich (and secure) instant messaging interoperability doesn’t sound as technically trivial as Linus (from WAN) thinks it is..and it would definitely stifle innovation if the various IM protocols constrained their feature expansion in order to stay cross-compatible.

Quote

Ensure the interoperability of their instant messaging services' basic functionalities.

it doesn't stifle innovation, you can still add things into your service that is only on your service as long as the basic functionality is maintained, everything else is fair game.

 

Linus mentioned animojis in the WAN show, but i wouldn't classify these as "basic functions" of iMessage. Same with stickers on Telegram, as long as text can be sent and received to any messaging service from any messaging service, everything else is likely fair game. though we'll know more when the act is actually made fully public as the proposal doesn't go into a lot o detail.

[saltycaramel]

What about security?

Wouldn’t a single weak link leak the whole group chat?

 

Nowadays I can make a number of security assumptions based on the IM service I’m using. Not anymore with text being sent left and right to different clients and OSes.

[Arika]

6 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

Wouldn’t a single weak link leak the whole group chat?

 

Nowadays I can make a number of security assumptions based on the IM service I’m using. Not anymore with text being sent left and right to different clients and OSes.

there has been this universal messaging system that has been in place for many many many years that is 100% cross-platform, it's called email and i would be surprised if any of the major providers don't use TLS encryption or SSL.

 

i'm sure they will be able to figure it out in 2022.

[Paul Thexton]

I completely get why people want the ability to side load, but I never did it on Android phones (only do it for Kodi on FireTV), will never do it on my iPhone. I honestly don’t care whether I have the ability to do so, but I do agree in principle that people should have the choice.

 

Also, this legislation is targeted at companies with a certain revenue, does this mean that Smart TV manufacturers get to maintain their iron grip on what apps can exist? For example on WebOS for LG, I haven’t even looked in to whether side loading is “a thing” in that kind of ecosystem.

 

 

[Vishera]

It's about damn time.

What took them so long?

They should have passed an act like that a decade ago.

[Dracarris]

Interesting how this whole thread, starting from the OP (which is super short and doesn't nearly cover this topic appropriately) is directed solely against Apple (once again). Whilst this law is much much bigger and addresses any big tech company.

 

Thankfully yesterdays WAN show had a more holisitic, nuanced and objective coverage on this really ground-breaking pro-consumer law.