Wan show: Never hate on your comunity

[Video Beagle]

Linus: those streamers shouldn't say bad things about their viewers.

Also Linus: my viewers are criminals who steal my property by not watching ads.

 

Also Linus: I can't pronounce your name "but it doesn't matter."

[Rex Hite]

Going from praising efforts to subvert YouTube's rating system by changing what gets displayed to the viewer, to criticizing efforts to subvert YouTube's revenue system by changing what gets displayed to the viewer...gives the impression that there's some questionable editorialising going on.

 

It's all fun though. I remind myself that LMG isn't a pharmaceutical company; they review toys. So there's that.

[wseaton]

I increasingly avoid any content with Linus, but love everybody else at his shop. Anthony is amazing. 

 

I know it may just be an act Linus puts on, but I've worked for people who are in person like Linus 'pretends' to be and it just reminds me of bad work environments. I like to watch hardware reviews with people I would like to hang out with and work with. 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

18 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

Linus: those streamers shouldn't say bad things about their viewers.

Also Linus: my viewers are criminals who steal my property by not watching ads.

 

Also Linus: I can't pronounce your name "but it doesn't matter."

 

14 hours ago, Rex Hite said:

Going from praising efforts to subvert YouTube's rating system by changing what gets displayed to the viewer, to criticizing efforts to subvert YouTube's revenue system by changing what gets displayed to the viewer...gives the impression that there's some questionable editorialising going on.

 

It's all fun though. I remind myself that LMG isn't a pharmaceutical company; they review toys. So there's that.

 

I’m done with this bs.

linus never said they people are stealing his property by not watching ads, if you read the whole tweet chain (like 3 tweets in a row), he literally says to just be aware of how adblocking might effect creators, then later on went and corrected his use of the word borscht and corrected it to the term that best applies.

I’m not saying Linus is a saint, but this needs to not be bring up constantly, it’s exhausting to read posts literal months later about this, when he corrected himself, and didn’t even say what most people say he said

If you’re pissed off enough at him, you don’t have to watch the videos. GN, jayz, or Hardware Unboxed cover a lot of the same content

[Video Beagle]

6 hours ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

linus never said they people are stealing his property by not watching ads,

 

 

6 hours ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

if you read the whole tweet chain (like 3 tweets in a row)

Don't read twitter.. He went on a lengthy rant on wan show calling his viewers... his community members.... criminals.

 

Now, I don't even block youtube ads.  I'm offended by 1) his treatment of his fans and 2) his lack of knowledge on what "pirates" are, what "privateers" are and his dismissal of actually learning what words mean as being important. This is reflected in what appears to be his reflexive line "but it doesn't matter" whenever he has trouble pronouncing a word or knowing the right word... On the lates wan show he repeated that a number of times, so it's more verbal tic than concious choice, but 3) he uses this when he has trouble pronouncing names in merch messages...ie literally his customers and he's saying pronouncing their names correctly is unimportant and 4) if he's claiming to be an educator...which he does often when feeling more lofty..and even not.. words..what they mean and how their pronounced IS important.

 

[wanderingfool2]

On 3/6/2022 at 4:29 AM, Video Beagle said:

Don't read twitter.. He went on a lengthy rant on wan show calling his viewers... his community members.... criminals.

Dude honestly read the twitter if you are going to go on about this stuff.

 

It's clear from anyone who actually thinks about what Linus is saying instead of just looking at the semantics of each word; maybe actually look at the semantics of it all.  He clearly was talking about the fact that you need to be aware of how ad blocking effects creators.  He has multiple times talked about piracy, and how he's not against it.  Sure, it might not be piracy strictly speaking, but he was also trying to highlight that so many people sit up on their high-horse and refuse to admit what they do has a direct affect on some communities.

 

It's that same mentality that seems to be growing where people trivialize theft itself from big box companies.  [Literally heard a streamer the other day saying it's okay since it was a big box store and not hurting anyone for stealing a few candies].

 

This whole thing really is ridiculous in my opinion how so many people jumped onto Linus for saying something that shouldn't really be controversial if people took two seconds to actually try comprehending what he was trying to say.

 

On 3/6/2022 at 4:29 AM, Video Beagle said:

Don't read twitter.. He went on a lengthy rant on wan show calling his viewers... his community members.... criminals.

Did you ever think that instead of the legal definition he was speaking a more colloquial sense.  After all, if you are going to start quoting things like you did and criticize him for being educators and calling people pirates, you think you would have at least taken a second or two to check the quote.  Since your first quote is literally talking about piracy as in stealing ships/vessels.

 

Canada non-commercial piracy isn't really much of a crime.  People can sue over it, but there isn't anything such as jail-time [it's like a $500 lawsuit or something like that].

From my knowledge (not willing to do the research), in the US it's not even a federal crime unless certain things are met (like recording a video in a movie theatre, or distributing copies).  For personal use, it seems more reserved for civil lawsuits.

 

It's like if Linus said his viewers were all jaywalkers and then getting in a tizzy that "he's calling us criminals".  If you really get stuck up too much on the word pirate, then you seriously need some self reflection because you are just seeing a single tree in a forest.

[danomicar]

I enjoy the fact that he has his own opinion to say how he truly feels rather than feel the need to lie to people to avoid any sort of confrontation. 

[WkdPaul]

* thread cleaned *

 

Please keep this on topic.

[Arika]

23 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

It's that same mentality that seems to be growing where people trivialize theft itself from big box companies.  [Literally heard a streamer the other day saying it's okay since it was a big box store and not hurting anyone for stealing a few candies].

Hell there was a thread here not too long ago where dell sent a guy 2 PC's instead of one in error and everyone said to keep it.

 

And another thread I remember, dell again, but it was like 7 laptops.

[TetraSky]

On 3/6/2022 at 7:29 AM, Video Beagle said:

-snip-

 

 

Linus has explained himself times and times again, even here on the forum where he spent a few days replying to a thread trying to get people to understand, but people like you FIXATE on the use of that one word and refuse to see it any other way. Linus admitted that saying "piracy" may not have been the right choice of words. He provided other more appropriate words that are not as heavy in implications. 
At the end of the day, he said you're free to do whatever you want, just to be aware that it affects creators. That's all you need to know about his stance on this.

 

18 hours ago, Arika S said:

Hell there was a thread here not too long ago where dell sent a guy 2 PC's instead of one in error and everyone said to keep it.

 

And another thread I remember, dell again, but it was like 7 laptops.

Yes, because it's NOT theft and I'm sure others said as much in those threads. When you are sent something through the mail (be it that you bought something or not and or they shipped extra items you didn't ask for with it), if they decide to send you duplicates of it or some other items, that's on THEM. You are LEGALLY allowed to keep whatever you get in the mail both in Canada and the US, even if you didn't ask for it, regardless of the value. You are not responsible for the mistake of their employees.
It's MORALLY wrong because they lose money for their mistake, but it is NOT theft. Theft would be if you ordered those computers with a stolen credit card or do a chargeback on it once you receive them.

[Video Beagle]

On 3/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

He clearly was talking about the fact that you need to be aware of how ad blocking effects creators. 

On 3/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

Did you ever think that instead of the legal definition he was speaking a more colloquial sense.

As I don't use twitter, I took this handy screen shot off the WAN Show, so let's cut off the "he meant silly pirates, not criminal behavior" bit

 

So, again, my point, he feels his community is stealing from him, he went on an apparently lengthy twitter rant on it, went on a length wan show on it. And, in context of this thread, that's fine.  There are other threads on if his interpretation is right or wrong. In this one, I'm poinitng out he's hating on his community pretty much like he was pissing on the pc builder guys.  I mean, watch the episode and see how he responds, with his sock puppet in tow, to everyone who disagrees with him.

 

 

On 3/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

This whole thing really is ridiculous in my opinion how so many people jumped onto Linus for saying something that shouldn't really be controversial if people took two seconds to actually try comprehending what he was trying to say.

On 3/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

It's clear from anyone who actually thinks about what Linus is saying instead of just looking at the semantics of each word; maybe actually look at the semantics of it all. 

 

I heard what he was saying. It's not what he says he was saying. Maybe he meant to say what he says he was saying, but it's not what he said. And when people in the twitter thread and in the chat and in the comments said they had issue with what he was saying, he became defensive about them not getting what he meant, as opposed to what he said, rather than go "I, the CEO of a communications company, should take a look at how I'm communicating." YMMV.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

Canada non-commercial piracy isn't really much of a crime.  People can sue over it, but there isn't anything such as jail-time [it's like a $500 lawsuit or something like that].

From my knowledge (not willing to do the research), in the US it's not even a federal crime unless certain things are met (like recording a video in a movie theatre, or distributing copies).  For personal use, it seems more reserved for civil lawsuits.

 

Yes...software piracy...all IP issues...are a federal crime.

This was in my early post...I had thought I had deleted it as I went with the sea piracy canadian law image there, but this was in it, and is about ip piracy.

 

Here's my ultimate point. Linus isn't some dude on youtube who still thinks "69" jokes are funny. He's the CEO of a million dollar company and a highly visible "influencer".  Words actually have meaning, and, at least in my generally meaningless opinion, he needs to start realizing that.

 

Oh, and again, the "it doesn't matter" when he can't pronounce one of his viewer's name really fucking pisses me off. That's just rude. And he's supposedly Canadian.
 

[YoungBlade]

1 hour ago, Video Beagle said:

Oh, and again, the "it doesn't matter" when he can't pronounce one of his viewer's name really fucking pisses me off. That's just rude. And he's supposedly Canadian.

I apparently missed that moment in the WAN Show. Did the name contain sounds that don't exist in Canadian English?

[Guest]

If you can charge 300$ for a back pack for kids to take to school, you don't need ads in videos to get rich.

 

Most of Linys's content isn't worth 12 ads in 15 minutes of air time. I'm sorry, ad blocker is engaged. I just don't watch his videos regularly to be offended, nor care to be called a criminal. 

[DANK_AS_gay]

16 hours ago, Arika S said:

Hell there was a thread here not too long ago where dell sent a guy 2 PC's instead of one in error and everyone said to keep it.

 

And another thread I remember, dell again, but it was like 7 laptops.

There is this thing called "Once it is sent out to the customer, it already has to be considered used/open box". for example, I went to Panara, got one too many yogurts. They weren't allowed to take it back because of health and safety. Example 2: My mother's friend got a pallet of mascara or some other makeup item in the mail instead of the one or two she ordered. She called them back and told them what happened. They said to just keep it. Example 3: My mother's friend in law school got a pair of airpods from Apple. They got sent 10 pairs. They called Apple, and Apple said to keep it. APPLE SAID TO KEEP IT. It costs the company more to get it back from you even if you are willing than it does for them to let you have it. And, in many situations, A company can't sell that item as new. You opened the box that contained the computers, therefore they have to sell them at a discount, on top of the shipping to get them back, we are talking 0 profits for them, since they are already on razor thin profit margins.

[paddy-stone]

15 hours ago, TetraSky said:

Yes, because it's NOT theft and I'm sure others said as much in those threads. You are sent something you didn't ask (be it that you bought something or not and they shipped those extra items with it), if they decide to send you duplicates of it or some other items, that's on THEM. You are LEGALLY allowed to keep whatever you get in the mail both in Canada and the US, even if you didn't ask for it. You are not responsible for the mistake of their employees.
It's MORALLY wrong because they lose money for their mistake, but it is NOT theft. Theft would be if you order those computers with a stolen credit card or do a chargeback on it once you receive them.

^ This. Finally someone gets it correct. In the UK it's the same, the difference might be that if the company realize their mistake, they can  REQUEST the goods back that were sent in error at their own cost and at the customers behest (ie if the customer acknowledges this, and at their convenience. so basically if they agree to give you back the goods if they acknowledge they got them, and in their own time).

[wanderingfool2]

4 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

mean, watch the episode and see how he responds, with his sock puppet in tow, to everyone who disagrees with him.

You are still burying the lead, it's like the whole like we just need to be aware of the impact which was in his first tweet (you are now looking at a line of multiple replies).  Also even in the one he said, it's still more relating to admitting things to yourself (not drawing moral alignments).  Seriously, saying "I don't use twitter" isn't a good excuse, look at the original tweet [he even admits doing it himself in the first tweet].  If you have trouble figuring out that he wasn't bashing the community but more talking about the impacts of ad blocking and to think of the impact.  I still argue the way he was talking about it was still in the more colloquial sense of the words.

 

4 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

Yes...software piracy...all IP issues...are a federal crime.

This was in my early post...I had thought I had deleted it as I went with the sea piracy canadian law image there, but this was in it, and is about ip piracy.

 

Here's my ultimate point. Linus isn't some dude on youtube who still thinks "69" jokes are funny. He's the CEO of a million dollar company and a highly visible "influencer".  Words actually have meaning, and, at least in my generally meaningless opinion, he needs to start realizing that.

 

Oh, and again, the "it doesn't matter" when he can't pronounce one of his viewer's name really fucking pisses me off. That's just rude. And he's supposedly Canadian.

Again, the US one is more typical of commercial scale federal crimes.  You go on about him needing to learn the meaning, and yet you seem to have even lesser of a grasp that there are different levels of piracy (where most being just civil infractions).  Here's a hint though, if youtube had the money and if it wasn't infeasible to do so they could sue everyone that was using an ad-blocker and likely win (probably under breach of contract)

 

4 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

I'm poinitng out he's hating on his community pretty much like he was pissing on the pc builder guys

If you really can't tell how extremely different him talking about these issues or "mispronouncing" names is completely different from what Artesian builds did then I'm done arguing.  It's clear that no rational reasoning will get through to you.

 

 

 

[Ultraforce]

4 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

 

Is piracy a crime in CanadaÉ

 

I might be wrong as I only started watching LTT videos a few months ago but I think it's pretty clear that Linus doesn't usually think of or necessarily consider the legal implications of what he is talking about outside of some specific stuff like maybe tech leaks. He constantly talks about the fact that he has pirated things and that from Canadian IP law he is both doing copyright infringement and enabling others to copyright infringe as there are laws about the creation of copies of software which digital copies of blu-rays are and it 100% isn't allowed to share them with friends living elsewhere.

Also the piracy thing you are showing I'm fairly certain is piracy that you pointed out is Piracy the crime associated with Pirates.

I will though agree that honestly I do think that Linus probably should have a slightly evolved attitude to reflect the situation he's in now a days. Though it could be as simple as doing training about some of the stuff one needs to consider as a buisness owner.

[Rex Hite]

Is piracy even a thing in law, apart from actual maritime ship-borne piracy?

Are we all using the word wrong and not just Linus? Or has the word been adapted into actual copyright law?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kisai]

On 3/5/2022 at 2:50 AM, Video Beagle said:

Linus: those streamers shouldn't say bad things about their viewers.

Also Linus: my viewers are criminals who steal my property by not watching ads.

 

Also Linus: I can't pronounce your name "but it doesn't matter."

Linus has occasionally said eyebrow-raising things, but nothing that I felt was "you aren't my fans, you aren't my audience", like Artesian builds effectively did, and then fall on their own sword.

 

There may come a day that Linus shoots his foot off with something he says, but people who keep bringing up the piracy comment are just looking for an axe to grind, and that conversation ended a long time ago, get off the pot already.

 

3 hours ago, Ultraforce said:

I might be wrong as I only started watching LTT videos a few months ago but I think it's pretty clear that Linus doesn't usually think of or necessarily consider the legal implications of what he is talking about outside of some specific stuff like maybe tech leaks. He constantly talks about the fact that he has pirated things and that from Canadian IP law he is both doing copyright infringement and enabling others to copyright infringe as there are laws about the creation of copies of software which digital copies of blu-rays are and it 100% isn't allowed to share them with friends living elsewhere.

Because in Canada, copyright infringement is "kind of allowed" and always been more of a grey-market(aka parallel imports) concern:

- Importing satellite dishes from the US and subscribing/stealing US television

Quote

May 22, 2002:

Canada's two satellite companies Bell ExpressVu and Star Choice brought the matter to the country's highest court. The companies say they're losing almost $400 million annually to the grey marketeers.

 

They estimate 600,000 to 800,000 homes in Canada have grey market receivers.

 

Members of the Calgary Latin American community say mainstream satellite providers don't give them with the programming they want.

 

- Watches, Electronics and Home appliances are often purchased in the US, but used in Canada, but the manufacturer will not honor the warranty if the product is exported.

- Seiko and Nintendo products were once grey-market in Canada

 

In general, in Canada, there is a culture of "If I can't buy it in Canada, I will go buy it in the US, at my own expense", and this continues today. This leads to a lot of problems when companies like Paypal refuse to allow Canadians to link to their US bank accounts, so again Canadians have to resort to having "actual American bank accounts and a PO box" and not US-denominated Canadian bank accounts because American payment systems won't process a payment without a zip code.

 

It has to be said that it's not Canadians endorse piracy, but rather they are sometimes forced to resort to it because the product or service is not actually available in Canada, and the reason it's not available in Canada is because the American (or Japanese) company licensed someone else their IP and that other company basically just sat on it. The reason why Canadians still pirate TV shows is because the "streaming" services in Canada are owned by the cable/sattelite companies and ask extortionate fees, and add needless broadcast delays, for a mediocre content library, when what Canadians actually want is the exact same content the Americans are seeing at the same time the Americans are seeing it. In today's highly connected world, there is no excuse for time-shifting the broadcast of any content, because by the time the show has finished airing at 9pm Eastern, the internet has spoiled it for everyone in Pacific time who has yet to be able to watch it. 

 

Also one of the reasons Canadians would "grey market" acquire satellite dishes and then steal the subscriptions was for the PPV content, since the cards could be programmed to say they had unlimited PPV credit. Then there are also the sports blackouts, and various other things that just piss people off that makes them ask why they would ever pay for Canadian cableTV at all.

 

Pirating of games and other software is the same problem. Piracy trends not to be "I want thing for free" but "I can't acquire thing at all, or at any price", and sometimes it may be available, but the price is extortionately more expensive than the US, so the Canadian would rather go through the effort to buy it from the US.

 

When the USD and CAD is at parity, it becomes immediately apparent which Canadian companies have been price-gouging the public (read, everyone.) When it's not at parity, you can often find US products with a 20% markup ABOVE the exchange rate.

 

3 hours ago, Ultraforce said:

Also the piracy thing you are showing I'm fairly certain is piracy that you pointed out is Piracy the crime associated with Pirates.

I will though agree that honestly I do think that Linus probably should have a slightly evolved attitude to reflect the situation he's in now a days. Though it could be as simple as doing training about some of the stuff one needs to consider as a buisness owner.

 

Linus no doubt sticks his foot in his mouth a lot more than we see, and it just gets edited out of those videos. The WAN show is the only time it's unfiltered, so if someone is looking for a reason to Cancel Linus, it will be there. I don't know why anyone would want to waste their own time hate-watching him just to do that. So let's just leave that aside and say that I think Linus is respectable when he puts the ethical implications first. I fundamentally disagree with his stance on the dislike button (I see it as a tool for abuse, because that's what it gets used for, everywhere), but he's never said anything I'd want to cancel him over.

 

 

 

[wanderingfool2]

2 hours ago, Rex Hite said:

Is piracy even a thing in law, apart from actual maritime ship-borne piracy?

Are we all using the word wrong and not just Linus? Or has the word been adapted into actual copyright law?

It is, it isn't, it is I think overall complicated.  It depends how liberally you look at things really.

 

At least from what I've seen, piracy was used before the general concept of copyright was introduced [problem under the concept that piracy was kind of like theft].  Piracy is mentioned in the law, but overall I think the word piracy is more of a generalized thing.  What is legally I think is quite different from what people might consider it.

 

The general issue is that I think the word piracy might not be well defined, and things that aren't strictly copyright infringement but still theft is so by some peoples definition of piracy wouldn't consider it piracy.  An example being, cable theft.  Back in the day when cable was analog, in theory all channels were being delivered to the house.  All it took was bypassing the filter, and you would get all channels.  Now ask a lot of people, and they would consider it piracy, but not sure it really would violate copyright.

 

So yea, at least when I hear and think of the word piracy I always think that it extends beyond what is defined as law (which is what it use to be used as)

[Moonzy]

Whoever disagrees with him can just dislike his videos as they're released, if he truly pissed of enough of his community then it'll show, if not then it doesn't really matter and he can just continue on (edit: just be aware of the impact lolol)

 

And run adblock on his channels

 

I think the community already said their piece regarding the piracy thing, most other creators I see also say adblocking isn't piracy, but Linus is still calling it so, perhaps out of spite but that doesn't make it right

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Moonzy said:

Whoever disagrees with him can just dislike his videos as they're released, if he truly pissed of enough of his community then it'll show, if not then it doesn't really matter and he can just continue on (edit: just be aware of the impact lolol)

 

And run adblock on his channels

 

I think the community already said their piece regarding the piracy thing, most other creators I see also say adblocking isn't piracy, but Linus is still calling it so, perhaps out of spite but that doesn't make it right

I don't see why he gets panties in a bunch.

 

Adblocker came out when he was like 9 years old.

 

Takes my time watching ads. My time isn't free. We should be paid to be forced to watch ads. 

 

I pay for internet to view shit without commercials. 

 

Rely income based on ads? That's a good reason to be mad, but financially sounds stupid.

[Rex Hite]

If YouTube prevented ad-blockers from loading videos, would it be in LMG's interest to use that function? I wonder what the business calculation would be.

Would LMG benefit more by preventing ad-blocked views or would it be better to let videos play?

Since the complaint is about lost revenue the business calculation would have to be about maximising revenue.

[Sauron]

On 3/9/2022 at 12:42 PM, Video Beagle said:

I agree with this, you should be consistent and steal the hoodie as well.

Spoiler

/S plz mods no ban

[Rex Hite]

That Circque de Soleil argument just points out how bad a value YouTube's Premium service can be for some.

If all the viewer wanted was ad-blocking then YouTube Premium would be a poor choice.  If the viewer wanted the full Premium experience then they should pay.