Can any car other than Teslas fully self-drive?

[Actual_Criminal]

Thinking of buying a Tesla in 2-3 years but it is quite expensive... I know there is a 'Nissan' but after a car a bit more cool.

 

I want it to self-drive fully if possible... can other cars do that?

[Middcore]

Not even Teslas can. 

[Actual_Criminal]

16 minutes ago, Middcore said:

Not even Teslas can. 

I thought if you sit at the wheel, it can fully take you from A to B if you pay for the service.

[Chris Pratt]

6 minutes ago, Actual_Criminal said:

I thought if you sit at the wheel, it can fully take you from A to B if you pay for the service.

Not well. Been multiple accidents from self driving mistakes, so you have to still actively be engaged with driving the car. That makes it little more than a gimmick. You can get about as much from cruise control.

[wseaton]

The entire self driving car panacea is the biggest consumer misdirection in history.

 

I'm all for making vehicles safer. The reality though is autonomous vehicle tech is being heavily pushed by the logistics industry, not consumers.

 

Truck drivers, municipal bus drivers, taxis, etc will be the first to see this technology implemented because it will replace workers. Doesnt have a darn thing to do with safer driving. Follow the money.

[Silverdogz]

10 hours ago, wseaton said:

The entire self driving car panacea is the biggest consumer misdirection in history.

 

I'm all for making vehicles safer. The reality though is autonomous vehicle tech is being heavily pushed by the logistics industry, not consumers.

 

Truck drivers, municipal bus drivers, taxis, etc will be the first to see this technology implemented because it will replace workers. Doesnt have a darn thing to do with safer driving. Follow the money.

I've been in on meetings with the people who actually make the heavy trucks. They don't even see a market for autonomous rigs outside of the shipping docks.

[pythonmegapixel]

I know it's not quite what you are looking for, but fully autonomous buses either are already, or will shortly be (I can't remember which, I think it was delayed due to Covid) running on public roads in Scotland, abeit on a short pre-planned route: 

https://www.transport.gov.scot/transport-network/roads/connected-and-autonomous-vehicles-cav/project-cavforth/

 

 

[YellowJersey]

Seems like Mercedes is the closest so far https://insideevs.com/news/553659/mercedes-level3-autonomous-driving-2022/

[Derkoli]

12 hours ago, Actual_Criminal said:

Thinking of buying a Tesla in 2-3 years but it is quite expensive... I know there is a 'Nissan' but after a car a bit more cool.

 

I want it to self-drive fully if possible... can other car do that?

Both my Taycan Turbo S and 911 Turbo S keep to lanes and have autonomous cruise/speed control.

 

They can also park themselves, both parallel and normally.

 

Obviously this isn't full self driving, but I can just turn onto a motorway or main road and essentially just sit back and relax (the car will also swap lanes to overtake). The car does ask you to touch the steering wheel occasionally, and if you don't it sounds an alarm, and if that doesn't make you touch the wheel, it does an extremely sharp jab of the brakes to wake you up/maintain your awareness.

 

The technology works very well, and can be specced on most Porsche models for roughly 2000 dollars in most cases.

 

I'm glad I specced it on both my vehicles, as I can relax a bit on the way to and from work, or other activities. It also saves fuel/range aswell, when compared to a person doing throttle and gear inputs. Especially as the 911 will purposefully keep the rev's very low so the turbocharger's can't even spool.

[Guest willies leg]

I have a Tesla, use Autopilot all the time. It's great for what it does. Long road trips, and clogged traffic jams on the highway, there's nothing else like it. It's amazing. Go test drive it sometime for yourself.

 

Schedule a test drive:

https://www.tesla.com/drive

 

Those who say others are ahead of Tesla don't understand the problem. Tesla is at least 10+ years ahead of everyone else.

 

https://www.tesla.com/en_AE/support/autopilot-and-full-self-driving-capability

 

 

 

 

But I can't emphasize this enough, don't listen to all the shit here, lots of people don't understand what's going on in this space. You have to try it to believe it, and you need to watch their video to see what they're doing.

 

Full Self Driving (what you're asking) is only in beta, and realistically 2 years out. But like I said, try what they have right now. It's amazing.

 

[Guest willies leg]

26 minutes ago, YellowJersey said:

Seems like Mercedes is the closest so far https://insideevs.com/news/553659/mercedes-level3-autonomous-driving-2022/

 

Nope.

They're doing it wrong. From the article:

"This currently only applies to the German market and it will only stay autonomous at speeds of up to 60 km/h (37.2 mph)....It still has plenty of limitations, though, aside from the aforementioned speed limit. Mercedes points out that Drive Pilot, its proprietary name for the self-driving system, can only drive on 13,191 km (8,196 miles) of German autobahn.....The roads on which the system works have been previously mapped out by Mercedes, so the manufacturer’s approach to autonomous driving is quite different to, say, Tesla’s."

 

[GlassBomb]

20 minutes ago, willies leg said:

Nope.

They're doing it wrong. From the article:

"This currently only applies to the German market and it will only stay autonomous at speeds of up to 60 km/h (37.2 mph)....It still has plenty of limitations, though, aside from the aforementioned speed limit. Mercedes points out that Drive Pilot, its proprietary name for the self-driving system, can only drive on 13,191 km (8,196 miles) of German autobahn.....The roads on which the system works have been previously mapped out by Mercedes, so the manufacturer’s approach to autonomous driving is quite different to, say, Tesla’s."

Tesla's "Auto pilot" shouldn't be allowed for use on non-Freeways if you ask me.

 

Real autonomous vehicles will only be a thing when the manufacturer takes any and all liability if an accident were to happen. Level 4 and 5 is a long ways away.

[Guest willies leg]

7 minutes ago, GlassBomb said:

Tesla's "Auto pilot" shouldn't be allowed for use on non-Freeways if you ask me.

 

Real autonomous vehicles will only be a thing when the manufacturer takes any and all liability if an accident were to happen. Level 4 and 5 is a long ways away.

 

Have you tried Tesla Autopilot? I use it almost everytime I go for a drive in mine. It's really good. I saw their AI video, you should watch it. They're light years ahead of anyone else.

I'm not saying it's perfect, nothing is. It's not going to prevent all accidents. But it'll react way faster than a human does, and doesn't get tired.

[GlassBomb]

3 minutes ago, willies leg said:

Have you tried Tesla Autopilot? I use it almost everytime I go for a drive in mine. It's really good. I saw their AI video, you should watch it. They're light years ahead of anyone else.

I'm not saying it's perfect, nothing is. It's not going to prevent all accidents. But it'll react way faster than a human does, and doesn't get tired.

 

I have not tried Tesla Autopilot. But that doesn't change that it's currently only a Level 2 system. The driver is still legally required to be hands on the wheel.

And while computers react faster, don't and get tired. They fail where humans exceed. Unpredictable events, and road hazards.

 

And if you're in a position where you are not able to react fast enough as a human. Then you simply are not paying enough attention, or keeping enough distance to the vehicles in front of you.

 

Autopilot exceeds in the same area as any other decent Level 2 self-driving system. Freeways with clear line markings, or stop-and-go traffic.

[Commodus]

13 hours ago, Actual_Criminal said:

Thinking of buying a Tesla in 2-3 years but it is quite expensive... I know there is a 'Nissan' but after a car a bit more cool.

 

I want it to self-drive fully if possible... can other car do that?

To elaborate on what others have said: no production car on Earth is fully self-driving, and they probably won't be for years.

 

Current vehicles achieve Level 2 autonomy (including Tesla vehicles with the Full Self Driving package) or, in the case of Mercedes' new offering, Level 3. They're basically souped-up driving assists rather than true self-driving. In all cases you have to be ready to take the wheel at a moment's notice — the difference with Mercedes' is that you aren't required to keep your hands on the wheel or your eyes on the road. I wouldn't expect any car you can buy to venture beyond Level 3 in the next few years.

 

And keep in mind the EV market will be much larger in two to three years. Nissan is releasing the Ariya crossover this year; Chevy, Ford and GM will have a string of semi-affordable EVs on the market; VW will have expanded its range beyond the current crop of ID cars; and of course, luxury brands like BMW and Mercedes will have multiple models. Tesla could easily remain a frontrunner by that point, but it will be far from alone.

[Guest willies leg]

23 minutes ago, Commodus said:

To elaborate on what others have said: no production car on Earth is fully self-driving, and they probably won't be for years.

 

Current vehicles achieve Level 2 autonomy (including Tesla vehicles with the Full Self Driving package) or, in the case of Mercedes' new offering, Level 3. They're basically souped-up driving assists rather than true self-driving. In all cases you have to be ready to take the wheel at a moment's notice — the difference with Mercedes' is that you aren't required to keep your hands on the wheel or your eyes on the road. I wouldn't expect any car you can buy to venture beyond Level 3 in the next few years.

 

And keep in mind the EV market will be much larger in two to three years. Nissan is releasing the Ariya crossover this year; Chevy, Ford and GM will have a string of semi-affordable EVs on the market; VW will have expanded its range beyond the current crop of ID cars; and of course, luxury brands like BMW and Mercedes will have multiple models. Tesla could easily remain a frontrunner by that point, but it will be far from alone.

 

Mercedes is only level 3 on a specific road in a specific area driving below a specific speed. Heck, by that definition Tesla is level 5 in a lab or in their parking lot. So why not just say Tesla is level 5? Exactly.

Just because Mercedes got a waiver from their government doesn't mean much in the big picture. But it does grab eyeballs and make headlines.

[PandaCopyRight]

I dont know how far along this system is for public (im guessing nowhere near production and not for at least few more years) ... but Renault had a Level 4 autonomy driveable concept back in 2017. Just the autonomous driving is not properly available yet, and it shouldnt be imo. Even if it was there the laws would need to be changed a lot, especially regarding traffic accidents.

 

[GlassBomb]

33 minutes ago, willies leg said:

Mercedes is only level 3 on a specific road in a specific area driving below a specific speed. Heck, by that definition Tesla is level 5 in a lab or in their parking lot. So why not just say Tesla is level 5? Exactly.

Just because Mercedes got a waiver from their government doesn't mean much in the big picture. But it does grab eyeballs and make headlines.

Mercedes got their waiver for just that reason. It's only able to function on Freeways. Where traffic is a lot more predictable compared to urban streets.

[Guest willies leg]

5 minutes ago, GlassBomb said:

Mercedes got their waiver for just that reason. It's only able to function on Freeways. Where traffic is a lot more predictable compared to urban streets.

 

Not "on freeways" but "Mercedes points out that Drive Pilot, its proprietary name for the self-driving system, can only drive on 13,191 km (8,196 miles) of German autobahn....the roads on which the system works have been previously mapped out by Mercedes"

 

From the article you linked to.

Ford does something similar with their BlueCruise. Only roads mapped out by them.

Not gonna scale.

 

[Commodus]

35 minutes ago, willies leg said:

 

Mercedes is only level 3 on a specific road in a specific area driving below a specific speed. Heck, by that definition Tesla is level 5 in a lab or in their parking lot. So why not just say Tesla is level 5? Exactly.

Just because Mercedes got a waiver from their government doesn't mean much in the big picture. But it does grab eyeballs and make headlines.

Because what Mercedes is doing is the definition of Level 3 automation: drivers are allowed to shift their attention elsewhere, but only in limited conditions. And importantly, this will be in production cars. If Tesla had Level 5 in a lab, it wouldn't matter if Level 2 was as far as customers could buy.

 

Yes, Mercedes is hyping this up, and the waiver makes clear this isn't commonplace. But it still means real consumers on everyday roads will be driving Level 3 vehicles. It shows that we're advancing past mere driver assists. The OP just can't count on that reaching a car they can buy on their budget and in their region.

[Sauron]

53 minutes ago, willies leg said:

Mercedes is only level 3 on a specific road in a specific area driving below a specific speed.

As opposed to Teslas which are level 3 on precisely 0 roads regardless of speed. The latter, I'm sure, is a legal limitation rather than a technological one; even if Tesla had competing tech they'd likely be limited by the same constraint, at least in Germany.

 

Mapping the road beforehand is a very pragmatic and effective solution to a problem that is otherwise years if not decades away from being solved otherwise, and for what? You could easily map main roads in most cities and entire freeway networks. Computers operate best within well defined boundaries. The last mile is always the largest obstacle in all sorts of automated logistics, it doesn't make sense to hold back the entire concept until that has been "solved", assuming it can even be done.

[AlwaysFSX]

We're quite a while from having actual self driving vehicles with the expectation that they can go from point A to B, on any road, anywhere.

Quiteeeeeeee a while.

Mercedes is the closest to a production car though.

[8tg]

4 hours ago, Silverdogz said:

I've been in on meetings with the people who actually make the heavy trucks. They don't even see a market for autonomous rigs outside of the shipping docks.

This, the issue is the infrastructure. Autonomous vehicles don’t handle obscured conditions well. If you can’t see the lines, the autonomous functions of the vehicle can’t see the lines. Roads with perfect lines and adequate signage are a rarity, there would have to be a complete overhaul of quite a lot of US roadways to see driver free vehicles go anywhere. 
 

[Kronoton]

3 hours ago, willies leg said:

Full Self Driving (what you're asking) is only in beta, and realistically 2 years out.

Manned trip to Mars has been 20 years out for 50 years.

 

FSD has been out 2 years for.....

 

Or just look back at docus about MB (and others) doing testing for these 20 years ago and realise that the limitations are still the same. Won't work in heavy city traffic, works 99.999% on highways but requires the driver to take over with in seconds for the remaining 0.001%.

 

It is still a long way out and even longer for full legal "sleep at no wheel" mode and till than it make no sense to squabble over who is 99.999% or only 99.99%.....

[pythonmegapixel]

16 minutes ago, 8tg said:

This, the issue is the infrastructure. Autonomous vehicles don’t handle obscured conditions well. If you can’t see the lines, the autonomous functions of the vehicle can’t see the lines. Roads with perfect lines and adequate signage are a rarity, there would have to be a complete overhaul of quite a lot of US roadways to see driver free vehicles go anywhere. 
 

I've seen suggestions that there will be one driver leading a long convoy of autonomous trucks.

 

Which sounds like a good idea, until you realise that it's just a less efficient version of a freight train.