Would you trust a computer with your life? Apple Car reportedly to have no steering wheel or pedals.

[D13H4RD]

1 hour ago, SeAsOn3 said:

Yes, but they didn't cut out the steering wheel entirely, did they? Because AI a d AI can have flaws, even if the car is self driving there should be a steering wheel which over rides the self-driving system just in case something goes wrong on the road

Nah, they did. The prototype vehicles obviously didn't, but they definitely were headed that direction.

[VirusDumb]

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

At a certain point, it's just easier adding in a controller for that situation.  A controller will be "easier" for a lot to people while driving

As long as the controller is shaped like a steering wheel, it's ok

[Rauten]

Yeah, no.
Apple can literally go F themselves with this.

 

I am fully in favour of self-driving cars, it is the future, and the roads will be much safer than with hairy monkey drivers.
But I would very much like to have the option to correct course if all of a sudden Siri decides that it wants to go all Kool-Aid on a brick wall.

[Beerzerker]

57 minutes ago, YouSirAreADudeSir said:

Wonder how much that cost him...

Luckily the driver walked away from that one but it could have cost him his literal ass.

 

 

As for the topic itself - No.

[jagdtigger]

As if the fact that "modern" cars are connected to the internet werent bad enough they want to remove the possibility of override in case the car gets boned by a hacker.

[RevTadd]

There was a time when people said the same thing about automatic elevators without human attendants; I doubt even 0.5% of the population these days has any issues with riding elevators. Full self-driving isn't quite ready yet today, but in as soon as 5 years from now I wouldn't see myself taking any more risk getting into a self-driving car as I do in about half of the ubers I take.

[cj09beira]

5 hours ago, SquintyG33Rs said:

for real by the time cars drive themselves, accidents and traffic would all go down drastically. but i don't think we're there yet...

facebook thinks meta is some VR bs people will want to spend time in, but really we need a unified car metaverse way before any trash they are imagining. a car smart grid if you will. as long as cars are processing individually and locally it's going to cause issues and you can't remove the driver 100% of the time (maybe it's 99, maybe it's 99,9% either way it's not enough to remove the wheel)

accidents go way down until there is a software bug somewhere/hack and you get thousands of accidents at the same time.

[InstantNewt]

5 hours ago, Dedayog said:

In Atlanta, I would prefer automated vs some of the asshats driving around me.  At least SOMEONE/THING is doing the driving while you read your texts.

What you don’t like someone crossing 8 lanes of traffic at 90 mph because they don’t know how to read a sign or just get off on the next exit 1/4 mile away? 
 

Lots of people like to think their city has the worst drivers, but Atlanta is the only place I’ve felt people are actively trying to kill me while driving. I’m with you. You could replace them with GTA V pathing and it would be an improvement. 

[jagdtigger]

11 minutes ago, RevTadd said:

There was a time when people said the same thing about automatic elevators without human attendants

Apple vs orange, the complexity of a self driving car (even a partial one) is several orders of magnitude above that of a elevator......

[CarlBar]

6 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Nope and I don't see how traffic safety regulators would even approve of a vehicle that doesn't have pedals or a steering wheel in case the full self driving makes an error.

 

This. here's no way a car without backup manual controls is going to be allowed on the roads anytime soon. Will it happen eventually? Sure, but probably not in anyone's lifetime. Not only are they going to have to get the whole self driving aspect off the ground, (no pun intended), but they'll also need to demonstrate a lot of time of near flawless operation before the regulatory agencies allow it on even a limited, (as in only able to drive within certain limited area's), basis.

[Mark Kaine]

6 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Nope and I don't see how traffic safety regulators would even approve of a vehicle that doesn't have pedals or a steering wheel in case the full self driving makes an error.

One of the first self driving cars didn't have a steering wheel. 

 

Waymo (i think?) has a autonomous driving car , with steering wheel and pedals,  but you aren't really supposed to sit in the drivers seat - because you are not the driver...

Didn't seem to have issues getting approval (for testing on public roads) 0 serious accidents so far! (look it up!)

 

The problem is with these new age hippie companies ala apple google tesla etc ... they do not have the expertise and make life worse for everyone with their "innovations" (that they stole/ copied from someone else)

 

40 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

This. here's no way a car without backup manual controls is going to be allowed on the roads anytime soon.

Well, you're factually wrong,  see above.

 

[Spindel]

After seeing radar based anti collision systems freak out when going in to a tunnel or freaking out in moderate to heavy snow. And camera based systems shuting themselves down in snow, fog and heavy rain. Camera based systems freaking out about crossing lines in the road (or not reacting at all) when it is snowy.
And autopilot/automatic criuse controls heavy throttle response/heavy breaking with no regerads to road conditions (specially in the winter). No systems regard to the possibility of a wild boar, deer or moose running in front of the car in certain environments. I’m very skeptical to autonoumus vehicles ever beeing a thing. Manual controls or no manual controls. Sure for designated patches of road but not as a general thing. 

[CarlBar]

6 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

One of the first self driving cars didn't have a steering wheel. 

 

Waymo (i think?) has a autonomous driving car , with steering wheel and pedals,  but you aren't really supposed to sit in the drivers seat - because you are not the driver...

Didn't seem to have issues getting approval (for testing on public roads) 0 serious accidents so far! (look it up!)

 

The problem is with these new age hippie companies ala apple google tesla etc ... they do not have the expertise and make life worse for everyone with their "innovations" (that they stole/ copied from someone else)

 

Well, you're factually wrong,  see above.

 

 

Getting approval for testing and getting approval for general sale are two completely different things. Testing is done with a fair amount of human oversight, someone involved will have an override.

[jagdtigger]

3 minutes ago, Spindel said:

radar based anti collision systems freak out when going in to a tunnel or freaking out in moderate to heavy snow.

I only seen this used in adaptive cruise control, it uses radar to keep a set following distance (not the best idea in many places, including my country). I drove a car that had this, when it started snowing and the sensor got snowy it flipped out and took the whole cruise control system with it.....  (IDK why it doesnt have a fault mode where it simply reverts back to simply keeping the same speed)

[Mark Kaine]

13 minutes ago, Spindel said:

Sure for designated patches of road but not as a general thing.

I agree,  the tech really isn't there yet to drive in all conditions,  everywhere, but it can be done almost everywhere in the near future, i think its inevitable (you definitely do need the right infrastructure,  which at least for many regions isn't that much of an issue)

 

This reminds of how many airliner pilots choose to land manually when even experienced pilots say that they shouldn't because in most circumstance auto (pilot) is the safer option.  Basically same thing, it only works because the infrastructure is there (and the tech is advanced enough to make it work) and humans still don't fully trust it even when its proven to do a better job.

 

 

[Doobeedoo]

Really I can see it in the future, heck no doubt AI will be better at driving than humans, people fucking suck at driving.

[Bramimond]

Chances are the computer is a safer driver, but still, I want the option to drive myself. 

[Sauron]

At the moment, as far as I know, no country would allow this on the road.

5 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

It's no where near the point where a steering wheel and brake pedal aren't necessary, but eventually I could see it being eliminated...

I'm not convinced we'll ever get there without extensive communication between cars and road systems specifically designed to facilitate autonomous driving. I'd be glad to be proven wrong though.

5 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

as the driving system gets better than human and you start getting humans taking over creating more danger...

This is a common truism but... people tend to forget that it's still humans writing the software. Car software in particular isn't known to be especially reliable...

[jagdtigger]

31 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Car software in particular isn't known to be especially reliable...

It depends, the older the subsystem the more mature the SW is. Instability only plagues the infotainment systems in the wast majority of cases.

[Spindel]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

I agree,  the tech really isn't there yet to drive in all conditions,  everywhere, but it can be done almost everywhere in the near future, i think its inevitable (you definitely do need the right infrastructure,  which at least for many regions isn't that much of an issue)

 

This reminds of how many airliner pilots choose to land manually when even experienced pilots say that they shouldn't because in most circumstance auto (pilot) is the safer option.  Basically same thing, it only works because the infrastructure is there (and the tech is advanced enough to make it work) and humans still don't fully trust it even when its proven to do a better job.

 

 

Funny you mention pilots. 
 

One anecdote I have is a former colleges add that is a pilot. His response to autonomonous driving is ”Will never happen”. 

[Sauron]

7 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

It depends, the older the subsystem the more mature the SW is.

While that's partially true because it has had more time to present problems, often it's just a case of those systems being extremely simple and therefore not as prone to bugs and unpredictable issues. Infotainment systems are significantly more complex than basic control and an autopilot would be even more complex.

 

While in a perfect world autopilot systems would be rightfully considered absolutely critical parts of the car that can't afford to fail, in reality software is often rushed and improperly tested because car manufacturers would rather make money now than save lives tomorrow. We have many examples of mission critical software causing disasters when a bit more testing could have avoided them, one of the latest being the 737 MAX essentially crashing itself with no warning due to a software workaround for what used to be a mechanical system. On top of that, this type of technology is inherently extremely difficult to test for all possible scenarios - in my country there are plenty of tiny or poorly maintained roads which would be very hard to navigate autonomously.

 

We can probably get to a pretty good autonomous driving system that works in most cases but I wouldn't be so sure that we can get rid of manual controls entirely.

[Stahlmann]

Fully self driving cars won't be a thing unless ALL the vehicles can talk to each other and there is NO other "manual" driver on the road. And that will never happen because there are always die-hards who will not get into a driverless vehicle. I don't think we're gonna see the day of reliable self-driving cars in this life.

[Tan3l6]

Self driving cars:

in cities - I surely trust with my life.

in "autobahn" - I might trust my life with some speed limitations.

in demolition derby - I surely don't trust my life to the hands of AI.

[jagdtigger]

2 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

ALL the vehicles can talk to each other

Bad idea, as things curretnly stand there are already gaping holes in the isolation of infotainment and mission critical parts of the vehicle. AI's talking over the internet? Hell no, thats like a wet dream for hackers....  (the industry is famous for their lousy implementations)

[TetraSky]

With today's tech? No.

In 10~20 years when the tech mature and is likely built into every car, maybe.

 

Tesla's AutoPilot just keeps getting better and better

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2020/10/28/new-tesla-autopilot-statistics-show-its-almost-as-safe-driving-with-it-as-without/?sh=23ce96061794

It's almost as good as a human driver now. But I wouldn't trust it just yet with my life.

That said, the fact that a computer can react a LOT faster than a human is also useful to avoid crashes as it will react appropriately to an unexpected event instead of panicking and swerving left/right and crashing since next to one is trained to handled such situation.

Also, might actually help curb drunk driving.