A COMPLETELY Upgradeable Laptop?

[AlexTheGreatish]

When Framework told me they were making a completely repairable laptop I assumed it would be a flimsy chonker... I've never been so happy to be wrong.

 

Check out Framework: https://frame.work/

 

 

 

[just_dave]

In this case, the push for repairability hurts performance, Tiger Lake chips (all laptop chips nowadays but these the most) need as much RAM bandwidth as they can get for the GPU to perform well. This laptop uses regular DDR4-3200 which has less bandwidth than the soldered-only LPDDR4X-4266, not even mentioning DDR4 needs double the power. 

 

[7heo]

36 minutes ago, just_dave said:

In this case, the push for repairability hurts performance

I'm pretty sure the people in the target market don't really mind losing performance for the possibility of repairing and upgrading it. If you want such a laptop nowadays, you are stuck with very old machines, and so this would be an upgrade either way.

 

For example, my most recent upgradable-ish machine is a Lenovo T440p, and that is featuring a i7-4810MQ (that I installed myself) with 16 GB of DDR3 RAM (that is the maximum this laptop supports AFAIK). I would not say no to a smaller chassis, a more recent CPU and more, faster RAM. The only downside for me is that I would rather use an AMD chip, and I'm guessing (the site being down at the moment I'm posting this) it is featuring Intel chips...

 

Edit: according to cnet, it is indeed using Intel chips, with the availability of i7 machines planned for August 2021 and the one of i5 machines for September.

[DestroyerXyz]

The video crashed their website within minutes!

[adastorm]

I'm loving this new push to reparability, and I really hope this turns into a full fledged business, and not a failed startup.

[TetraSky]

I wish for this to be a success.
 

But I'm skeptical whether they will still be around in a few years for you to get parts.

[NatalTiger26]

5 minutes ago, DestroyerXyz said:

The video crashed their website within minutes!

yeah exactly this was one of the best product i have seen I mean it's good and upgradable what more do you need? I am really gonna order it if it comes to India. 

 

[pccool007]

This is amazing when will be out for the public

[7heo]

3 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

I'm skeptical whether they will still be around in a few years for you to get parts.

At least if they make it in such a way that is meant for repairability/upgradability, you might find other companies producing replacement parts.

 

1 minute ago, pccool007 said:

This is amazing when will be out for the public

According to cnet, August for i7 models and September for i5 ones.

[Jaegan]

I hope for a followup video talking about how well compatibility is for linux.  I love the modularity of this, but have no desire whatsoever to run Windows.

[Lurick]

Just now, 7heo said:

At least if they make it in such a way that is meant for repairability/upgradability, you might find other companies producing replacement parts.

Yah, if I understand it right all the parts just use USB Type C interfaces to slot in (at least for the external modules like display port and whatnot) so that should definitely be possible.

[Lurick]

10 minutes ago, 7heo said:

I'm pretty sure the people in the target market don't really mind losing performance for the possibility of repairing and upgrading it. If you want such a laptop nowadays, you are stuck with very old machines, and so this would be an upgrade either way.

 

For example, my most recent upgradable-ish machine is a Lenovo T440p, and that is featuring a i7-4810MQ (that I installed myself) with 16 GB of DDR3 RAM (that is the maximum this laptop supports AFAIK). I would not say no to a smaller chassis, a more recent CPU and more, faster RAM. The only downside for me is that I would rather use an AMD chip, and I'm guessing (the site being down at the moment I'm posting this) it is featuring Intel chips...

Yes, all intel based chips for now it seems

[Jaegan]

2 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Yes, all intel based chips for now it seems

They did mention in the video that Framework has said something about the possibility of other processor options in the future though, right?

[just_dave]

3 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Yes, all intel based chips for now it seems

Intel is a more versatile option at the moment thanks to a lot more powerful GPU and better IO/SoC features

[just_dave]

15 minutes ago, 7heo said:

For example, my most recent upgradable-ish machine is a Lenovo T440p, and that is featuring a i7-4810MQ (that I installed myself) with 16 GB of DDR3 RAM (that is the maximum this laptop supports AFAIK). I would not say no to a smaller chassis, a more recent CPU and more, faster RAM. The only downside for me is that I would rather use an AMD chip, and I'm guessing (the site being down at the moment I'm posting this) it is featuring Intel chips...

Most AMD based thinkpads have 1 memory slot, ssd slot, m.2 wifi card and replaceable battery that you can order directly from Lenovo. Though the framework seems more like a human laptop, I absolutely hate the screen and input devices on my T15 Gen 1

[7heo]

18 minutes ago, Jaegan said:

I hope for a followup video talking about how well compatibility is for linux.

Compatibility for Linux is, barring legal restrictions, always an option. It is down to the general public to (reverse engineer and) implement the right firmwares, drivers, and additional required software. I guess it might be worth knowing the immediate compatibility with Linux, but either way if it becomes popular among techies (and I have no doubts it will - check coreboot support for Lenovo if you have doubts), it will be fine.

 

13 minutes ago, just_dave said:

Intel is a more versatile option at the moment

My main gripe with Intel is their total lack of respect towards customers (and I get it, they were literally the only viable option for about a decade) with complete disregard about privacy and security (IME anyone?), and they eventually (thankfully) let their guard down for several years producing the same chip again and again like EA produces the same washed up games every year at full AAA price every single time. I am glad this gave AMD the time to catch up. Let's just hope no-one ends up so far ahead on top for several years again that we'll be stuck once more with meh chips and crappy "features".

 

11 minutes ago, just_dave said:

Most AMD based thinkpads have 1 memory slot, ssd slot, m.2 wifi card [...]

The T440p is Intel based, and the reason I do not own an AMD based Thinkpad is exactly this. Also, impossible-to-service BGA-everything.

[just_dave]

Just now, 7heo said:

Compatibility for Linux is, barring legal restrictions, always an option. It is down to the general public to (reverse engineer and) implement the right firmwares, drivers, and additional required software. I guess it might be worth knowing the immediate compatibility with Linux, but either way if it becomes popular among techies (and I have no doubts it will - check coreboot support for Lenovo if you have doubts), it will be fine.

It's a standard tiger lake platform, there shouldnt be any issues

[JogerJ]

Caught a glimpse of the website before it crashed. Apparently only pre-orders in US and Canada for now. God knows when or if it'll make it to worldwide, by then we'd likely get a 2nd gen iteration already

 

I was wrong. As of 2021/12, Framework has made it to UK, Germany, and France. Maybe it'll come worldwide sooner than we know it

[BeyondBoy]

First time a video made me come here! Didn't know this existed!

 

Hello everyone!

 

Love the concept and what framework is doing! I have seen other laptops try to do this replaceability scheme like the Toughbook Series from Dell or someone, but they were all bulky and not sexy or all like Framework's.

 

Would honestly buy one right now if their site was working . Wish they shipped to the UK though. 

 

I would like to know more about display replacement though, can you change the display to a 144hz or other one?

If this was implemented, it would be a perfect laptop!

 

 

[darwin006]

RIP Frame Works website lol. It was super slow when I went to it and less then a minute later it went down for maintenance.

[Quackers101]

nice push and what I thought would be possible, although a lot slimmer, if that is a good or bad thing.

As if the size or sizes is more "universial" then maybe you COULD switch the motherboard and CPU. But this would need more engineering and development.

So you could use the same chassie and modules, but just swapping the motherboard+cpu+gpu with a newer one, keeping storage, ports etc.

So long it fits and the cooling and size is at the supported. Not too many variants or it can screw things up a lot, also giving enough space for future upgrades.

From PCIe 4.0 - PCIe 5.0. DDR5 components, other CPUs or GPUs that could maybe fit in that size later (not making it too slim to push out any upgradability).

 

I do love the simple swapping of needed ports, sadly any liquid damage and other stuff might become worse for this one, but at least you can swap things out.

Also I see that the port is sort of covered and high enough up on such a slim device, and some locks to not lose them (stealing? failure of the lock? better inside the chassie than outside? future waterproofing?).

 

 

Also this just shows how much that could be added if companies put more efforted into this topic, rather than doing both of freedom to swap while making it a closed system and not wanting to encourage swapping to this level of freedom.

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

Neat product. Hope they succeed.

[YoungBlade]

My current laptop is a refurbished HP Probook from 2012 I got for $150. Before that, it was a Gateway T6330u from 2008. This is in no small part because I don't want to invest a decent amount of money in something where, if one part fails, the whole thing is a brick.

 

My last modern laptop was an Asus one I bought in 2013. The internal power delivery failed right after it went out of warranty. There's no fix for that. I just had to salvage the RAM and HDD and move on. I went to a desktop and just used my old Gateway (thanks to Linux) when I needed something more portable.

 

I'm going to have to do some more research (once their site is back up - GGWP LTT, you broke it!) but if the price is reasonable, I think I'm going to get a modern laptop for the first time in 8 years.

[Final Blade]

Definitely a good laptop idea. I have been wanting this upgradability for a laptop for years.
I will no longer have to look through barebone laptops, with as many slots of all the parts as possible and start the laptop with only 1 slot filled.

Looking at this and thinking oh the laptop feet are not are a good angle for me, oh look by 2 extra thick storage module and now the laptop is at a steeper angle and you get more hard drive space. Or it is one hard drive and the other is a display adapter with a bonus usb port. or whatever.

 

I am excited for this. This is what I wanted laptops to be able to do for years.

Editing this message, because all my other messages are just vanishing.

Retyping this because I did not post.

This is amazing.
With a diagram to make an external enclosure for the motherboard. Does that mean the motherboard is modular?
In the future when I want to upgrade this laptop can I just put the current motherboard into an enclosure and then buy a new motherboard and put it into the laptop frame I had the first one in?

This gets rid of the e-waste of all the parts that cannot be transferred to new laptops.
 

The old motherboard can be used and Electronic Whiteboards for notes, messages, whatever I need it for at home.

This makes laptops so much less of e-waste if I can replace any part with newer better parts, including the motherboard.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Final Blade

[7heo]

1 minute ago, YoungBlade said:

This is in no small part because I don't want to invest a decent amount of money in something where, if one part fails, the whole thing is a brick.

If you bring it to Louis Rossmann, it could be repairable