A COMPLETELY Upgradeable Laptop?

[Kev]

29 minutes ago, IAmAndre said:

Does anyone know if they ship worldwide?

Currently US and Canada only. You would have to use a US po Box service that relays mail worldwide.

[xn--cr8h]

1 hour ago, manikyath said:

the only groundbreaking thing here, is that the dongle is now inside the laptop instead of outside the laptop.

I think there's a huge functional difference between this approach and a dongle. You have to constantly plug in and unplug dongles, since you can't just stick a laptop into a bag with dongles sticking out of it. The modular approach not only lets you choose exactly *where* you want your ports, but reduces wear on the internal ports since ports can often break with repeated insertions. When a port breaks, a replacement is only a couple dollars and can be done comfortably by literally anyone -- you don't have to touch a screwdriver or see a single circuit board. It's a really smart design IMO -- it just depends on the company staying in business long enough to sell replacement ports through the whole lifespan of the laptop. Even so, the fact that these module designs are open source and based around a single USB port gives me a bit more confidence.

 

Maybe providing a mixture of USB ports would have  been more useful for some but it seems like these days "a mixture of USB ports" means something like two USB-C and maybe one USB-A, which doesn't really cut it for me and other people who still use a bunch of USB-A devices

[tolerablepeach]

When they go full release im going to buy one since this type of mindset NEEDS to be in the electronic industry and is a great reason to support them. Honestly for like my parents if they want something on the go, or for myself if im travelling out of the country, this kind of laptop is right up my ally and is something i look forward to buying 

[Arika]

Wow, don't think i've ever seen Linus review a product and then immediately order it for himself. might be time to say goodbye to the xps he's been using

[hishnash]

8 hours ago, 7heo said:

At least if they make it in such a way that is meant for repairability/upgradability, you might find other companies producing replacement parts.

Only if they sell enough of these and designed to open source the IP for the parts, also some vendors (intel for example) will just never sell you a BGA laptop cpu new, and they contain everyone who buys these parts from them to not be able to sell them out side of a built system so if you need to replace your cpu or motherboard chipset your going to be salvaging it from some other system just like all other laptops. 

[BachChain]

5 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

The dongles are neat but 99% of people are probably going to buy 1-2 of them, install them, and then never change them making the "modular" pointless.

It's much easier to have just one chassis and let the user decide what to put in it than to make 10 mostly identical SKUs.

[hishnash]

8 hours ago, darwin006 said:

You are splitting hairs. No one is going to notice the difference in the real world between the two. What you are talking about only matters in synthetic benchmarks.

In battery life you would see quite a large difference between DDR4 and LPDDR4x in particular for higher capacity options like 32GB or 64GB, would be nice if they had an option to have a motherboard that had this shouldered on as this could improve battery life by a good %. 

[DankDoodles]

Someone ping me whenever the site is working again kthx

 

Won't give me any customization options or etc, just kept saying something went wrong. The video hit top #37 on trending so I can't imagine the amount of traffic they are getting. I just want to buy the dang thing!

[captain_to_fire]

[Chiyawa]

Well, Framework push for repairability is... Well, I think it's okay, but still, I believe all laptop are repairable except for Microsoft and Apple as far as I can tell.

 

I recently purchase Lenovo Yoga 6 13ARE05 and they can be tear down after going through their manual. I say what Framework did is pretty much the same and I don't see much different other than the 'dongle' IO and RAM. Of course, a 13 inch laptop has virtually no space for RAM slot, but mine has M2 SSD and M2 WiFi slot. So yeah, unless we are going back to the old style laptop where we can even change the processor, I don't think Framework did a good job on their vision of 'total repairability'. Change motherboard? Well, Dell, Lenovo and HP did that, and still doing now.

 

What most annoy me is that they use torque screws, so it's not like you can find torque screwdriver in every supermarket. So, I say, okay, but I will just tell them 'you gotta do better than that'. I don't think they're any different from Dell, HP or Lenovo.

 

The swappable IO using their 'proprietary' USB-C dongle is a nice touch, but hope they can include more option, such as USB 3.2 Gen 2 type A, USB 3.0 hubs and Ethernet port.

[0591ryan]

5 hours ago, manikyath said:

that's exactly my point.

 

the only groundbreaking thing here, is that the dongle is now inside the laptop instead of outside the laptop.

 

yes, it's a huge leap forward for the public image of repairability, but we really shouldnt praise them as the new kings, without calling out the old folks have been doing all but the dongle concept for their business customers since the dawn of times.

 

- repair instructions for everything but the mainboard itself? HP EliteBooks have it.

- parts availability without questions asked? (well.. support will be asking a lot of questions, but you get the part you want..) HP EliteBooks have it.

- upgradeability? well.. SSD, battery, memory, wifi card, 4G modem (yes), etc.. HP EliteBooks can do it.

 

now.. there's upsides and downsides to the dongles being usb-c.. but to me it mostly seems like a very cheap solution to a problem that shouldnt be created in the first place.

 

it is probably more infuriating to me than it should be that they dont, for example, have a dongle with two usb ports, because the best you can do in terms of connectivity still remains disappointingly "on par" with your average EliteBook.

 

to me, it would have been much better if they got rid of the 4 modules, made room for a second M.2 slot internally, and did crap like "bigger battery <=> smaller battery plus 2.5" bay" choices.

whichever combination of modules you may want to do, it's all worse than just sticking a mixture of USB ports and a displayport port on the laptop.

also, a lack of ethernet infuriates me. it's the one port i cant get right now, and appareantly i cant get it on "a modular laptop" either.

I agree with the lack of ether at but I think you miss the QOL that this implementation gives the end user

 

Another forum member pointed out that making one chassis and letting users customize preferred ports is a lot easier than a few mostly similar chassis-that’s all to the good

 

But the real story is in the internals-I am familiar with business grade laptops being a step above consumer trash-this goes a step beyond like the color coded screws, that’s a huge deal for me and it really helps with repairs

 

Having socketed parts isn’t necessarily the most amazing thing but not imposing white lists for RAM or what have you is pretty nice, this design also makes repairing the less common components easier such as speakers and display

 

I have only ever truly worked on T500/W500 laptops and that was a bitch and a half-finding parts was a nightmare, mostly the display to go to 1920x1200 and the replacement panel died quickly

 

this gives me the same repair ability in a smaller form factor, lighter and I expect they will try to keep the same main board design to allow users to upgrade as time marches on

 

try doing that with an elite book 

[Chiyawa]

7 minutes ago, 0591ryan said:

his design also makes repairing the less common components easier such as speakers and display

I'm sure Dell, HP and Lenovo can change the speaker as well. I repaired countless of laptop including more modern one. While it may be a bit difficult for modern thin and light laptop to be taken apart, but it's still do-able with proper instruction manual. However, in about 99% of the time, the amp chip on the motherboard became faulty rather than the speaker itself.

[D1SPL4Y N4M3]

My only question is the compatibility with dedicated GPU’s for those who want to rock this laptop as their “daily driver” for eGPU’s and the type C connector (whether it is true thunderbolt or not?)

 

I don’t know, I’m not that “technical” but I’ve heard there are a LOT of compatibility errors with some eGPU’s, specially if they’re designed for one laptop and one laptop only.

[sterdog]

Please, never say Elitebook. We have them for work and while they may be "repairable" HP themselves make the machines unbearable. We have them on a leasing deal with support, however all support requests have to go through the US (I'm based in Canada) because of HP policy. So, sure, we can get our laptops repaired *wait for it* in about 3-6 months. Yeah. Screw HP. They want to inspect everything under their warranty policy, which means at least two international shipping and customs clearance experiences any time something fails to work. These guys don't have to do much to be better than that. Our company is switching to Dell since supposedly their on-site support is actual on-site support, even for remote employees like myself. I guess we will find out. Hell, the Surface was better than our Elitebooks since at least Microsoft would cross ship units that our IT department could flash remotely. 

[AldiPrayogi]

I'm running an old Lenovo laptop right now and would love to replace it with this one if it ever comes to Indonesia.

[0591ryan]

2 hours ago, Chiyawa said:

I'm sure Dell, HP and Lenovo can change the speaker as well. I repaired countless of laptop including more modern one. While it may be a bit difficult for modern thin and light laptop to be taken apart, but it's still do-able with proper instruction manual. However, in about 99% of the time, the amp chip on the motherboard became faulty rather than the speaker itself.

The point isn’t for OEMs to do repairs, I would hope they can service their product

 

And yes, I don’t doubt that anything given enough experience and equipment is repairable-with that logic soldered components are “repairable” just grab a soldering iron and some flux and you’re off to the races

 

displays and other parts being glued in, finding replacement parts is a chore-the problems with current laptops are legion and well traversed

 

im not saying this laptop is the end all be all-personally I’d like to see them integrate coreboot and a freed EC firmware into their product, I can’t imagine why that would terribly difficult since freed EC firmware exists thanks to system76 and I would imagine coreboot support boils down to the processor choice and bios chip choice-it could be more complicated than that, not a dev myself

 

A neutered Intel ME would be too much to hope for here, it can be done since Star Labs has done it-it just kills battery life to do so

[Alexeygridnev1993]

15 hours ago, Jaegan said:

I hope for a followup video talking about how well compatibility is for linux.  I love the modularity of this, but have no desire whatsoever to run Windows.

If you want a more substantial answer:

 

Intel Xe graphics support was added in kernel 5.11

 

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-511-xe&num=1

 

Their wifi adapter support seems to have been fixed in kernel 5.10: 

 

https://community.intel.com/t5/Wireless/Linux-driver-Wifi-6-AX210-NGW/td-p/1249283

 

Other than that, there is literally nothing else which can cause problems on Linux. So, grab any distro with at least 5.11 kernel and you're good to go.

[Radium_Angel]

7 hours ago, sterdog said:

Please, never say Elitebook. We have them for work and while they may be "repairable" HP themselves make the machines unbearable. We have them on a leasing deal with support, however all support requests have to go through the US (I'm based in Canada) because of HP policy. So, sure, we can get our laptops repaired *wait for it* in about 3-6 months. Yeah. Screw HP. They want to inspect everything under their warranty policy, which means at least two international shipping and customs clearance experiences any time something fails to work. These guys don't have to do much to be better than that. Our company is switching to Dell since supposedly their on-site support is actual on-site support, even for remote employees like myself. I guess we will find out. Hell, the Surface was better than our Elitebooks since at least Microsoft would cross ship units that our IT department could flash remotely. 

HP is terrible, unfortunately Dell isn't much better.

I work for the gov't (USALand) and we have Dells. When they break, we have to do diags (despite us having an on-site warranty) and once we determine it's bad (we're in IT after all) they send some flunky down who goes through the same things we did, then takes the box away and returns us...a different box, always used and in worse (physical) shape than the one they took away.

 

Yeah it's an improvement over the closet full of dead HPs we have...but only barely. 

[Fasterthannothing]

19 hours ago, Jaegan said:

I hope for a followup video talking about how well compatibility is for linux.  I love the modularity of this, but have no desire whatsoever to run Windows.

I got my pre order in should ship in September I'm going to turn it into a Linux machine. Is it the most modular that it could be made no I've seen a company that did removable CPUs and swappable GPUs. However it's thin, usable every day, they encourage you tinkering with it. Their adding module's and if those USB c is thunderbolt then it's going to be awesome for external GPU.

[concorde77]

I love the concept of the Framework laptop, and I really hope that modular designs becomes a new standard in the laptop sector.

 

I'm a little curious about something though. I know it's meant to be a laptop built for everyday users, but I noticed that it didn't have any room for a dedicated graphics card. Yes gaming would be nice. But as an engineering major, it would be AMAZING if I had a modular laptop with enough power to run solid works on the go. Are there any Framework Plans or community projects so far to add modular graphics cards/ upgraded cooling to the laptop?

[IAmAndre]

For those who want an in-depth review: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Review-If-Microsoft-Made-A-Repairable-Surface-Laptop-This-Would-Be-It.551850.0.html#toc-display

 

I'm personally more inclined towards the i5 variant (cheaper and hopefully quieter), but I'm annoyed that they won't start shipping until September.

[Fasterthannothing]

21 minutes ago, IAmAndre said:

For those who want an in-depth review: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Review-If-Microsoft-Made-A-Repairable-Surface-Laptop-This-Would-Be-It.551850.0.html#toc-display

 

I'm personally more inclined towards the i5 variant (cheaper and hopefully quieter), but I'm annoyed that they won't start shipping until September.

Ok so it's compatible with thunderbolt according to that review and tested with a GPU dock! Whoo hoo going to get a dock and stick my 2070 super in it for a mobile gaming system. 

[0591ryan]

56 minutes ago, SlidewaysZ said:

Ok so it's compatible with thunderbolt according to that review and tested with a GPU dock! Whoo hoo going to get a dock and stick my 2070 super in it for a mobile gaming system. 

It’s not validated yet which is why it isn’t labeled as such from what I read on the their forums

[Fasterthannothing]

48 minutes ago, 0591ryan said:

It’s not validated yet which is why it isn’t labeled as such from what I read on the their forums

Ok I should say unofficially it works which is cool

[Jaofilipe]

17 hours ago, manikyath said:

that's exactly my point.

 

the only groundbreaking thing here, is that the dongle is now inside the laptop instead of outside the laptop.

 

You are right. As i see it they are inovating by placing the dongles inside the laptop.

However i must point out they are doing this on a crammed 13 inch laptop.

18 hours ago, manikyath said:

to me, it would have been much better if they got rid of the 4 modules, made room for a second M.2 slot internally, and did crap like "bigger battery <=> smaller battery plus 2.5" bay" choices.

whichever combination of modules you may want to do, it's all worse than just sticking a mixture of USB ports and a displayport port on the laptop.

also, a lack of ethernet infuriates me. it's the one port i cant get right now, and appareantly i cant get it on "a modular laptop" either.

Indeed a second m.2 slot would be nice (maybe for the 15 inch model it would be a reality?)  but i dont see the point in sacrificing the modules as then it would be just the same as any other laptop on the market. To me, being able to switch from a serial port to, say, a usb type A, or sd card reader, without compromising ont the laptop size is very useful, although some may rather use regular dongles.

Also the ethernet port is not a concern since it can be added using some clever engineering like fujitsu's connector.