RTX 3060 now selling for below MSRP in china following expected and unsurprising crypto crash

[WkdPaul]

3 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

It's also a time where you would think more people would be pushing for more renewable energy. Even my state, the most sparsely populated has room for wind turbines and other renewable and we are just now exploring it. 

https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=AK

Totally agree, renewables is also another solution to try and help. Though it's not tackling the energy use itself, it IS a start !

 

I'm pretty sure the only reason it's a hot topic is because people can't get GPUs at MSRP, once this dies down (because it will), most won't care much about this anymore, even though they should, for a multitude of reasons other than crypto mining energy consumption !!!

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, wkdpaul said:

Totally agree, renewables is also another solution to try and help. Though it's not tackling the energy use itself, it IS a start !

 

I'm pretty sure the only reason it's a hot topic is because people can't get GPUs at MSRP, once this dies down (because it will), most won't care much about this anymore, even though they should, for a multitude of reasons other than crypto mining energy consumption !!!

We've been on a bad path for much longer than crypto and it will continue after the "hot topic" glamor dies off. 

I'm lucky enough that I can do some to cut emissions. Granted I work in mining, and we use generators that eat up roughly $1,000,000 a month in diesel, but at home I got rid of my diesel pickup(was pre emissions and a smoky pig), if EVs become more available and are tested in cold weather I'd gladly go to one (-30C isn't uncommon for me in the winter), I have to fly to and from work, but I balance that with running as few one time errands as I can. I try to save them up for a day in town. I do use propane to keep my house comfortably above freezing (7.2C is what it's at), and then use wood stoves to keep the house comfortable. When I'm going for wood, since I prepare this summer for 2023, and have time to dry the wood and kill off anything in it, I go for down and dead first. Granted that's usually not enough to keep me through the year, so it's supplemented by some that was alive when I cut it. The lion's share of my meat comes from sustainable hunting. I don't remember the last time I had pork, chicken or beef at home. Moose, caribou, fish, bear etc. At work I don't have that luxury since all the food is shipped in, so it is beef here. I don't have AC. I leave the windows open when it's hot in the summer. I actually use so little electricity at home that my bill is usually less than $90 a month. 

Spoiler

Under 620 kWh on average for me. or 2/3 the average.

I'm rambling now, but the TL:DR, we can't individually fix the problem, but there are small steps we can each take to help the problem. Admittedly, I mostly do it where it's "convenient" for me, but it's still more than a lot of the "crypto bad. ban crypto because environment" group do. 

[tikker]

7 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

I'm rambling now, but the TL:DR, we can't individually fix the problem, but there are small steps we can each take to help the problem. Admittedly, I mostly do it where it's "convenient" for me, but it's still more than a lot of the "crypto bad. ban crypto because environment" group do. 

Exactly this. If only people were more "Big Pharma" regarding energy. You replacing your paper cup with a mug, while good practise, isn't going to save the planet.

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, IkeaGnome said:

Then why focus on crypto mining and not other things that have been an issue for much longer and have caused more damage and will continue to?

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions

You realize crypto mining isn't even part of the biggest pollution bracket?

https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-transport

Why aren't we pushing for more renewable energy?

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co2-per-capita-vs-renewable-electricity

 

You act like nobody is trying to do exactly that. Most industries are moving to more environmentally friendly direction so idk why we can't try the same with cryptocurrency. Get rid of Bitcoin and move to more energy efficient options that aren't the horrible inefficient pow model. Alot of energy providers are moving to renewable energy already and as someone who works in as an engineering consultant in the construction industry there has been huge push for buildings to have net zero emissions. Everyone is moving forward and people should expect nothing less from cryptocurrency. 

[Master Delta Chief]

1 hour ago, tikker said:

Water is wet and you need an axe to chop wood. Most products or services on this planet are aimed at a certain group of people that have the equipment and money for it or it wouldn't exist. Gaming is aimed at? you guessed it: gamers that have money and gaming gear, stocks are aimed at? people that have money they want to invest. 8k camera's? cinematographers. Jewels are mined for? Businesses dealing in jewelry and people with money to spend on them and the list goes on. For a service or product to survive it needs a user base and that user base only exists because they either have the tools to work with it and/or money to spend on it.

Yeah no shit. Look, all I'm trying to say is that cryptocurrency isn't for the regular kinds of people and probably will never be despite some claiming otherwise. You need to be a rich individual in the first place for actually making profit in this crap. Whether you need to get an ASIC or GPU for mining, you need the money to pay all these things. Not to mention the electricity bill you'll be getting if you don't have the necessary infrastructure to make sure you are being 'efficient' enough with your energy. 

[WhitetailAni]

Just now, Master Delta Chief said:

Yeah no shit. Look, all I'm trying to say is that cryptocurrency isn't for the regular kinds of people and probably will never be despite some claiming otherwise. You need to be a rich individual in the first place for actually making profit in this crap. Whether you need to get an ASIC or GPU for mining, you need the money to pay all these things. Not to mention the electricity bill you'll be getting if you don't have the necessary infrastructure to make sure you are being 'efficient' enough with your energy. 

You don't need to mine to make money from crypto.

[tikker]

22 minutes ago, Master Delta Chief said:

Yeah no shit. Look, all I'm trying to say is that cryptocurrency isn't for the regular kinds of people and probably will never be despite some claiming otherwise. You need to be a rich individual in the first place for actually making profit in this crap.

It takes money to make money has always been true and is nothing unique to crypto. This is even worse for the stock market because returns are much lower there. Fun fact: I invested in crypto because it was cheaper to start with than the traditional stock market, because over here I cannot buy fractional stocks or whatever.

22 minutes ago, Master Delta Chief said:

Whether you need to get an ASIC or GPU for mining, you need the money to pay all these things.

In your own words: yeah no shit. Who would have though you need money to buy things? Furthermore mining is far from the most efficient way to make money if that's all you care about. Just use that money to buy the crypto and be done with it. This just a misunderstanding thinking that you have to mine.

22 minutes ago, Master Delta Chief said:

Not to mention the electricity bill you'll be getting if you don't have the necessary infrastructure to make sure you are being 'efficient' enough with your energy.

This is nonsense. You can literally calculate your electricity bill, in fact this is the first step you do when you consider mining, and furthermore it costs me like €1 per day in electricity. That's not breaking the bank. You greatly exaggerate the expenses. I also don't know what you refer to with "necessary infrastructure". You take your GPU, you undervolt, underclock and lower the power limit in afterburner to make it use less power. That's all there is to it.

[Master Delta Chief]

16 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

You don't need to mine to make money from crypto.

Yes, I know that as well but I can see why it might sound like I didn't in that post as I was predominately aiming at the mining aspect. Regardless, even if you don't count the mining part of crypto, you still need money in order to make an investment in said currency and just pray it's 'worthiness' will increase in the future just to get something out of it.   

[IkeaGnome]

  

47 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Alot of energy providers are moving to renewable energy

Wouldn't this fix

 

47 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Get rid of Bitcoin and move to more energy efficient options that aren't the horrible inefficient pow model

the emissions part of this?

Like I've said, 

1 hour ago, IkeaGnome said:

We've been on a bad path for much longer than crypto and it will continue after the "hot topic" glamor dies off. 

 

2 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

crypto mining isn't even part of the biggest pollution bracket

 

[joaopt]

I finally got my card, a new LHR 3060ti, price was over MSRP but not much. I had sold my old one a couple weeks ago when the crashing prices news came out, so one paid for the other. A 2 year old card for a new.

[tikker]

1 minute ago, Master Delta Chief said:

Yes, I know that as well but I can see why it might sound like I didn't in that post as I was predominately aiming at the mining aspect. Regardless, even if you don't count the mining part of crypto, you still need money in order to make an investment in said currency and just pray it's 'worthiness' will increase in the future just to get something out of it.   

That is literally the point of an investment though: use your money to buy something and hope it goes up in value to sell later.

[Brooksie359]

15 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

  

Wouldn't this fix

 

the emissions part of this?

Like I've said, 

 

 

The key is most of the pretty bad contributors are old markets that need to catch up with the times. Cryptocurrency is new and the way it is setup makes it inherently inefficient so idk why people keep on defending it. They just need to change it and we would be all good but people are stubborn and would rather argue over burning oil for fun. 

[IkeaGnome]

12 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

The key is most of the pretty bad contributors are old markets that need to catch up with the times.

Why isn't this as big of an issue right now as crypto? If old markets and energy creation had been a bigger deal before, crypto could be getting done on all sustainable energy right now. Why is crypto the one that needs to change? Why not the other markets that are getting the benefit of being "old" and "they just need to catch up with the times".

[Master Delta Chief]

33 minutes ago, tikker said:

That is literally the point of an investment though: use your money to buy something and hope it goes up in value to sell later.

Yeah but the problem with that in crypto is that in most cases it's just worthless and a waste of time, a gamble in other words like the stock market.  But that wasn't something I was specifically arguing in the beginning. You need to be a rich individual in order to make money from a decent cryptocurrency, that's the point I'm trying to make. 

 

7 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Why isn't this as big of an issue right now as crypto? If old markets and energy creation had been a bigger deal before, crypto could be getting done on all sustainable energy right now. Why is crypto the one that needs to change? Why not the other markets that are getting the benefit of being "old" and "they just need to catch up with the times".

Whataboutism isn't going to progress this conversation you are trying to have. 

[pas008]

1 minute ago, Master Delta Chief said:

Yeah but the problem with that in crypto is that in most cases it's just worthless and a waste of time, a gamble in other words like the stock market.  But that wasn't something I was specifically arguing in the beginning. You need to be a rich individual in order to make money from a decent cryptocurrency, that's the point I'm trying to make. 

 

Whataboutism isn't going to progress this conversation you are trying to have. 

NO YOU DONT

you could mine alittle to buy another card than mine then buy another

if you were around from the beginning many people started with 1 gpu back like a decade ago

[WkdPaul]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

NO YOU DONT

you could mine alittle to buy another card than mine then buy another

if you were around from the beginning many people started with 1 gpu back like a decade ago

Pretty much how I got over $1k from a HD7870 ...

[Brooksie359]

16 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Why isn't this as big of an issue right now as crypto? If old markets and energy creation had been a bigger deal before, crypto could be getting done on all sustainable energy right now. Why is crypto the one that needs to change? Why not the other markets that are getting the benefit of being "old" and "they just need to catch up with the times".

Both need to be changed and one is being changed so idk why you are even arguing over that. Again cryptocurrency needs to change the way it works just like those old markets do as well. You keep on deflecting to other sectors being a problem like it somehow makes cryptocurrency being inherently inefficient and a power hog suddenly ok. It needs to be changed just like we should eventually go all electric for cars and move to renewable energy for power grids. Also renewable energy isn't so abundant that we can simply disregard using massive amounts of power in a manner that isn't efficient. 

[Master Delta Chief]

9 minutes ago, pas008 said:

NO YOU DONT

you could mine alittle to buy another card than mine then buy another

if you were around from the beginning many people started with 1 gpu back like a decade ago

So what? We're not talking about the past, but the present so I don't know how this has any relevance to this. And if you want to mine just to get another GPU, well good luck with that in these days. I don't believe the shortage is going to help, despite what this article claims. 

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, Brooksie359 said:

Both need to be changed and one is being changed so idk why you are even arguing over that.

Here's why.

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

cryptocurrency being inherently inefficient and a power hog suddenly ok. It needs to be changed

But people want change now.

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

just like we should eventually go all electric for cars and move to renewable energy for power grids.

But this can wait until eventually. 

In this thread, I've not once said crypto good, everything else bad. Yes crypto could be more efficient, and should be. One is suddenly getting a lot more attention because of a "shortage" and the other is being left to it's normal progress. 

[pas008]

4 minutes ago, Master Delta Chief said:

So what? We're not talking about the past, but the present so I don't know how this has any relevance to this. And if you want to mine just to get another GPU, well good luck with that in these days. I don't believe the shortage is going to help, despite what this article claims. 

because I can mine right now with 1 gpu also and then buy another as i make money

you act like only the rich can mine when anyone can obviously

you act like the past isnt giving us any insight on this presently

 

[pas008]

46 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

The key is most of the pretty bad contributors are old markets that need to catch up with the times. Cryptocurrency is new and the way it is setup makes it inherently inefficient so idk why people keep on defending it. They just need to change it and we would be all good but people are stubborn and would rather argue over burning oil for fun. 

@bolded

because what i do with my gpu and my electricity is none of your business

and vice versa

as long as they arent breaking any laws

 

[Moonzy]

So tl;dr

Electricity is only an issue if miners gets the GPU, because otherwise gamers run their GPU with pixie dusts

 

I also want to say that miners think about their electricity cost, which is normally cheaper if it's renewables, like the hydro dam in China (or me who fitted solar)

While gamers don't really care about that aspect

 

For people thinking you need to be rich to invest, it's a % thing

You don't need millions to double your money, you need any amount of money to double you money

For example, if you bought a 3080 back in September at MSRP which is $700, you'd have made ~$3000 by now in crypto

If you bought a 3060ti back in December around MSRP (got mine at $550), you already mined the money back around April, and almost doubled the money by September

 

That's not enough to live off of, sure, but you can buy more GPU with that money and work off an exponential equation

[tikker]

1 hour ago, Master Delta Chief said:

Yeah but the problem with that in crypto is that in most cases it's just worthless and a waste of time, a gamble in other words like the stock market.  But that wasn't something I was specifically arguing in the beginning. You need to be a rich individual in order to make money from a decent cryptocurrency, that's the point I'm trying to make. 

You have an interesting definition of worthless if you call something worth $30k wortheless. You don't need to be rich to make money from crypto. A 10% profit is a 10% profit. Now of course a 10% profit on a $10000 investement is more than on a $100 investment in absolute terms, but you have made money in both cases. Even a 100% profit on a $10 investment is the same in absolute terms, but in relative terms you've made an insane profit. The ones dropping fat stacks immediately will always win. That's just how it works. You can't hold it against math that 100% profit on $10 is $10 and "only" 10% profit on $10000 is ten times more.

 

In Dutch we have a saying: "wie het kleine niet eert is het grote niet weerd", which means if you don't appreciate the small things you don't deserve the big things. If you don't appreciate you making $10 on your $100 investement then you don't deserve truly big profits, because you have no appreciation for (increase of) value. Furthermore how do you even expect to make any money at all if you continuously go $100 is too much, I'll buy in at $75; nah $1000 is too expensive I'll buy in at $750; oh it hit $10000 maybe I should have... you get the point.

 

There are two things that are important to remember:

1. The people you see dropping $10k left and right on random coins are people for which $10k is already nothing or they are idiots playing with fire. There's a reason why for every investment people tell you to not invest what you cannot afford to lose.
2. Survivor bias. People are all too eager to post about their +1000% gains, but a lot less people will tell you they are now in serious financial trouble because they wagered way too much money for their own good and now lost it.
3. This is not a millionaire-over-night scheme and the ridiculously insane profits are only for those who bought in very early day, that's still not something you can hold against it. Also, the people saying "if only I had bougt in at $10/100/1000!!" would have sold big time once they saw it do x10,x100 or x1000. You'd have to be insane to see a 100x profit and not take at least part of it.

1 hour ago, Master Delta Chief said:

So what? We're not talking about the past, but the present so I don't know how this has any relevance to this. And if you want to mine just to get another GPU, well good luck with that in these days. I don't believe the shortage is going to help, despite what this article claims. 

What you're saying still isn't true. You can still make money on crypto in the present. My portfolio is proof. I've only started recently and only with $10 even, but I'm still up and in the green. I have learned a lot about how money works actually and why investing makes sense over plain saving. Most importantly, I have learned why rich people are rich: they let their money work for them, they invest, take on a variety of assets, they take calculated risks and when it pays off they use that profit to generate even more money. Do this long enough and it'll have a snowball effect, and there's the final ingredient: time. Lots and lots of time. Investments are a waiting game. Don't invest with the idea to be rich next week, you do it to be rich in 10 years.

 

Yes crypto is speculative and extremely risky. That is also the exact reason why there is money to be made. Safe investments won't make you big money and investments that have the potential for big money have the same potential for big losses. It's either or, you can't have a safe investement that will make you big money.

13 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

For people thinking you need to be rich to invest, it's a % thing

You don't need millions to double your money, you need any amount of money to double you money

For example, if you bought a 3080 back in September at MSRP which is $700, you'd have made ~$3000 by now in crypto

If you bought a 3060ti back in December around MSRP (got mine at $550), you already mined the money back around April, and almost doubled the money by September

 

That's not enough to live off of, sure, but you can buy more GPU with that money and work off an exponential equation

Exactly. People don't deal with percentages well though. They only care to turn $100 into $1M not realising what an insane kind of profit that would mean (i.e. the you buy 1000 BTC at $0.10 and forget about it for a decade kind of profit). They don't respect turning $10 into $20 and using that extra $10 to invest back in.

 

[Edit] and to add a bit more. You need to reach a sort of critical mass as well. If you keep nibbling profits off of your $10 investment you will never get anywhere. Especially in the beginning you should resist the urge to take too much profit and focus on building that revenue generating pool first, which yes will require a good amount of money inflow from you first.

 

Are we breaking a record yet for longest crypto thread without getting locked? Probably not, but sure feels like it (Plz no lock because I say this now )

[Moonzy]

1 hour ago, tikker said:

Exactly. People don't deal with percentages well though. They only care to turn $100 into $1M not realising what an insane kind of profit that would mean (i.e. the you buy 1000 BTC at $0.10 and forget about it for a decade kind of profit).

People want to be rich instantly without effort

It took me literal years to get a hang of it and start getting serious about it recently, and I'm still learning about it

 

Though I should put it out there, if you want to get rich, don't get into mining, trade coins is faster

Though, be smart about it and learn technical analysis, it helped me decide when to sell my coins to further increase profits from mining

 

Man, I wish crypto was more volatile

I made 60% in 4 hours iirc, during the Doge big fall from $0.6+ to $0.21 and jumped back to 0.42, volatility is great for some people

 

1 hour ago, tikker said:

Are we breaking a record yet for longest crypto thread without getting locked? Probably not, but sure feels like it (Plz no lock because I say this now )

There was a thread with 20 pages

[tikker]

16 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

People want to be rich instantly without effort

It took me literal years to get a hang of it and start getting serious about it recently, and I'm still learning about it

 

Though I should put it out there, if you want to get rich, don't get into mining, trade coins is faster

Though, be smart about it and learn technical analysis, it helped me decide when to sell my coins to further increase profits from mining

Yeah it's only been months for me and I've paid with my ignorance and inexperience. Was up 120% at one point and didn't think the bull market would end there. Well... everyone knows where we are now. I'm still green though so no tears spent over unrealised gains.