Apple enters VR game with $3k headset with 8K per eye

[rcmaehl]

Summary

Sources say Apple's upcoming VR headset with be 8K per Eye with eye tracking and swappable headbands.

 

Quotes

Quote

A... report from The Information corroborates and expands... a... Bloomberg report... that Apple is preparing to launch a high-end virtual reality headset. The new headset will allegedly feature two 8K screens... and... a steep $3,000 price point. The headset... will be able to display rich 3D... thanks to an ultrafast M1 chip successor and... eye-tracking to render objects in the user's periphery at a lower fidelity than what the user is focusing on. This method is somewhat like a more advanced version of the already widely used frustrum culling technique in video games, wherein only what is visible on-screen at a given time is rendered. The headset will feature swappable headbands..., an outward display..., and a mesh fabric similar to what we've seen in the company's HomePod speakers. At least one version of the headset that Apple is testing includes more than a dozen cameras. The headset also features a lidar sensor. Apple is still testing different input methods, including things worn on the user's hands or fingers, reading body and hand movements with the included cameras and sensors, and even a digital crown-line knob on the side of the headset. Both The Information and the author of the previous Bloomberg story have proven to be generally reliable when reporting on upcoming Apple products in the past,... But it's nonetheless hard to believe that what we've seen so far is the complete story.

 

My thoughts

I'm not sure how to feel about this, maybe Apple is planning far in advance so when it does release a VR headset it'll be on-par with the Quest 4/Rift SSS/Index 3. At the same time it seems, to be a semi-joke considering one of the input methods was quoted as "a crown like knob on the side of the headset". Regardless, it's nice to see established tech companies entering the VR game with non-cheapo Windows MR headsets. Maybe finally tech journalists will stop saying VR is dying when it's clearly not.

 

Sources

9to5 Mac

The Verge

Arstechnica (quote source)

[TetraSky]

Holy sweet Jesus of a resolution.

Ain't no PC going to be running anything(games) worth mentioning at two times 8k at a decent framerate... Much less an Apple chip in what is likely going to be a wireless headset similar to the Oculus Quest.

Though they do mention it will use hardware trickery with eye trackers to reduce the resolution where you're not looking. Wonder how that will look.

And which market are they aiming at here... VR productivity? Apple hasn't been known to show much interest in gaming... and I don't expect to get high end games on this either, unless their CPU/GPUs are literally magic and can do what none others can do adequately on a much more powerful standalone PC.

 

Though I do like all the sensors and camera they would be putting on that. Should give pretty accurate tracking at least.

But no glasses and forced to buy custom lens for it could be a deal breaker for some people... Though if you got $3k to burn on a first gen VR headset from Apple, because it's Apple, you might be willing to buy the prescription lens as well.

 

Still a bit confused as to why Apple would enter the VR market with a bulky headset... I would've sooner thought they'd be making iGlass or something, some type of AR glasses... Wait nevermind, they are making that already...

 

https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-glasses/

[WaggishOhio383]

But... $3000? Who is this device even catering to? I doubt the kind of apple customers who buy apple products just because they're apple products are that interested in a VR headset. Apple isn't exactly known for making gaming-oriented devices. And anyone who wants a VR headset for casual use probably won't be paying $3000 for one made by apple. But for someone who's really into VR and willing to drop that much money, will an apple-made VR device really be that appealing?

[rcmaehl]

20 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

Holy sweet Jesus of a resolution.

Ain't no PC going to be running anything(games) worth mentioning at two times 8k at a decent framerate... Oh but wait, it has a built-in chip? So it will be kind of like the Oculus Quest ? Which market are they aiming at here... VR productivity?

Though I do like all the sensors and camera they would be putting on that. Should give pretty accurate tracking at least.

 

Still a bit confused as to why Apple would enter the VR market with a bulky headset... I would've sooner thought they'd be making iGlass or something, some type of AR glasses... Wait nevermind, they are making that already..

I think they're using the experience at making a stupidly quick X1 chip to make a VR focused chip. Heck, just going form the 835 to X1 in the Quest was a huge step up. If they can get eye tracking lower resolution rendering working extremely well, they may not need much.

[Jet_ski]

20 minutes ago, WaggishOhio383 said:

But... $3000? Who is this device even catering to? I doubt the kind of apple customers who buy apple products just because they're apple products are that interested in a VR headset. Apple isn't exactly known for making gaming-oriented devices. And anyone who wants a VR headset for casual use probably won't be paying $3000 for one made by apple. But for someone who's really into VR and willing to drop that much money, will an apple-made VR device really be that appealing?

Based on what I’ve read the first iteration will be targeted at developers and early adopters. They don’t plan on selling this to the masses yet.

 

I think 8K might be the wrong way to think about the displays here. A display that’s supposed to be that close to the eyes should use smaller pixels to look sharp and retina/HIDPI. 8K only counts the number of pixels. Back in 2018 Sony announced:

Quote

Sony Semiconductor Solutions has announced a 0.5-type OLED microdisplay at an impressive UXGA resolution (1600x1200 pixels), claimed to feature the world's smallest pixel pitch at 6.3μm (which translates to a 4031PPI resolution.

 

Sony expects this high-definition OLED Microdisplay to be employed in a diverse range of fields and applications such as AR (augmented reality) and VR (virtual reality) head-mounted displays. At 200cd/m 2, the device draws 310mW at 60fps (progressive) / 120 fps (dual-line progressive). Maximum luminance is 1,000cd/m 2.

so it’s definitely possible to make but it costs a lot.

[thechinchinsong]

3 minutes ago, rcmaehl said:

I think they're using the experience at making a stupidly quick X1 chip to make a VR focused chip. Heck, just going form the 835 to X1 in the Quest was a huge step up. If they can get eye tracking lower resolution rendering working extremely well, they may not need much.

Yeah, I think if Apple released a VR focused chip based off of their current architectures, with their hardware and software being hand in hand, it wouldn't really need any stupidly powerful GPU in order to run things other than VR gaming. Maybe more professional or prosumer workloads for the first iterations.

[AnonymousGuy]

I'm interested.  I haven't bought VR yet because none exist that aren't shit resolution or framerate and if this pushes the ball forward then that's a good thing.

[Bombastinator]

Sounds like marketing.  There’s no real reason to us two 8k displays.  I suspect that while it may be very narrowly true it won’t be what most people think when they think 8k per eye.  The dozens of cameras thing may also be iffy.  Isnt there a phone out now that technically has 6 cameras even though in actual use it has the equivelant of one because only one can actually be in use at a time?

[Mling]

I hope they can make a headset that fits firmly on the head. I had to mod mine to be tighter otherwise it doesnt work with my glasses

[Bombastinator]

21 minutes ago, Mling said:

I hope they can make a headset that fits firmly on the head. I had to mod mine to be tighter otherwise it doesnt work with my glasses

So specifically, your head.  Everybody’s Mellon is different. It’s a reason hat sizes exist.  A methodology for sizing headphones might be interesting.  I’ve got an unusually large head even for a tall Caucasian dude.  My sister bought me some headphones and specifically looked for the largest ones she could find. 

[Mling]

36 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

So specifically, your head.  Everybody’s Mellon is different. It’s a reason hat sizes exist.  A methodology for sizing headphones might be interesting.  I’ve got an unusually large head even for a tall Caucasian dude.  My sister bought me some headphones and specifically looked for the largest ones she could find. 

no its the plastic adjustment knob. It cant pull tight. I had to put a belt over it.

[Arika]

waaaaaay too expensive, and if it really is 8k per eye, there is no computer that is going to be able to run anything at those resolutions anyway

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Mling said:

no its the plastic adjustment knob. It cant pull tight. I had to put a belt over it.

? How is that not your head?  Is the thing broken or won’t adjust small enough?

[Mling]

33 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

? How is that not your head?  Is the thing broken or won’t adjust small enough?

I can only see properly if I put pressure on my forehead.

[Bombastinator]

36 minutes ago, Mling said:

I can only see properly if I put pressure on my forehead.

?!?  Like with your eyes?  That sounds..  wry bad.

[Kisai]

12 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

 

My thoughts

I'm not sure how to feel about this, maybe Apple is planning far in advance so when it does release a VR headset it'll be on-par with the Quest 4/Rift SSS/Index 3.

VR has always been a joke because it's a bad input method, and a bad way to play games in a confined space.

 

There are literately videos of people breaking their computers, tripping over pets/cords/furniture/equipment while wearing VR kit.

 

Until there are massive improvements in being able to "read the mind" so to speak, VR will have limited appeal. Yet, 8K VR to me seems like the first serious attempt at doing VR output correctly at least. Most of the VR kit done so far has been toy-level, and little regard has been given to the health of the participant. It's actually rather appalling what has been pushed on PC and Playstation users thus far. Those are low res and feels like massive steps backwards. 

 

[Loote]

I remember reading that our eyes are more or less 2mpix resolution at focus point and the rest is very low res, so the eye-tracking method could work... if they manage the delay somehow and I am not sure if that's feasible. I agree that it's a step in a good direction though. The optical elements seem to be just as important, but I think Apple would have them well designed too.
I am not a big VR fan, but it is becoming more  and more interesting.

[Doobeedoo]

Well, it definitely won't be gaming related that's for sure. Very high resolution is needed but also high framerate along for a good VR experience.

[Commodus]

As Jet_ski suggested: this headset will likely be aimed at developers and certain pros rather than mainstream users.

 

After that, Apple would likely build a more mainstream model if it intends to expand at all. "Just" 4K per eye and fewer tracking cameras could easily help.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Doobeedoo said:

Well, it definitely won't be gaming related that's for sure. Very high resolution is needed but also high framerate along for a good VR experience.

Which in turn means a lot of gpu power and therefor heat.  Sounds like this is a technology waiting on GPUs.

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, Commodus said:

As Jet_ski suggested: this headset will likely be aimed at developers and certain pros rather than mainstream users.

 

After that, Apple would likely build a more mainstream model if it intends to expand at all. "Just" 4K per eye and fewer tracking cameras could easily help.

I could see it as a business aimed telepresence thing.   A really good telepresence system could pay for itself quickly even at those prices simply because airfare is really expensive.  I wonder if this is a side effect of the stuff having to do with mask Face ID.  It effectively cuts faces in half, and the half used for Face ID is the half that would be covered by a VR headset.  

Edited February 6, 2021 by Bombastinator

[Doobeedoo]

9 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Which in turn means a lot of gpu power and therefor heat.  Sounds like this is a technology waiting on GPUs.

Yeah, also I mean it's Apple so gaming is not something I'd expect. Definitely not non-Apple circle ones we'll see in the future. Maybe some Apple only stuff nobody will care.

 

For me to even care about VR definitely tech needs to progress a lot more.

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Yeah, also I mean it's Apple so gaming is not something I'd expect. Definitely not non-Apple circle ones we'll see in the future. Maybe some Apple only stuff nobody will care.

 

For me to even care about VR definitely tech needs to progress a lot more.

I don’t think Apple actually hates gaming.  The appleIIe survived on gaming for a long time.  They did get more or less kicked out of it.  Their market share just isn’t big enough.   I’m not sure Apple can do fully gaming centric stuff.  Apple stuff is generally gaming capable.  The machine that was actually fundamentally gaming crippled was the TRS80 and you don’t see those any more. They were cheaper and in some ways more effective than the appleIIe, but the apple was considered a major step up because it was color and could draw smaller pixels for games.  The trs80 had to subsist on large black-and-white blocks.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Bombastinator

[WereCat]

18 hours ago, WaggishOhio383 said:

But... $3000? Who is this device even catering to? I doubt the kind of apple customers who buy apple products just because they're apple products are that interested in a VR headset. Apple isn't exactly known for making gaming-oriented devices. And anyone who wants a VR headset for casual use probably won't be paying $3000 for one made by apple. But for someone who's really into VR and willing to drop that much money, will an apple-made VR device really be that appealing?

VR enthusiasts are already spending way more than $3k on a VR HW. If this turns out to be a really good VR, it will sell out fast even at this price.

[wamred]

What in the world? This does seem overpriced tho so it sounds like apple.