Can static KILL your PC? (ft. Electroboom)

[ColinLTT]

It's finally here, the long awaited Electroboom collab!

 

Just how dangerous is static electricity to your PC? Are ESD wrist bands just a "big tech" scam, or are they a necessity to protect your much-loved gaming rig? Linus and Electroboom investigate.

 

 

 

Check out ElectroBOOM's video here: https://youtu.be/4SjOv_szzVM

 

Buy ESD Gun
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Buy Anti-static Wrist Straps
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Buy ESD bags
On Amazon (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/d8Nm
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Buy Tesla Coil Kit
On Amazon (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/73pP
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And also, a friendly reminder to please recycle your electronics when they've reached the end of their usable lifespan! If you're in the US, check out EPA.gov to find one in your area. 

[WhitetailAni]

Poor DDR2

[HawkinEagul]

But can it run cyberpunk 2077 

[Kilrah]

This was really fun, and Mehdi is refreshingly knowledgeable   

[HawkinEagul]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

This was really fun, and Mehdi is refreshingly knowledgeable   

Behind the mask!

[Prodigy_Smit]

Holy shit this is the best day of my youtube watching career.

[EL02]

Best video I've seen so far this month XD

[Tristerin]

Testing ESD on old components (DDR2 lol) to see if it matters in this day and age.  

 

Then guy says we carry 8-12 on carpet, but uses 25 to shoot at the PCB to kill the first stick.  K

 

Then they hit it with a 12 (max you carry on carpet per him) - and it cant kill the components.  They have to go out of their way to kill it this time.  Repeated attempts.  On DDR2.  After 5 attempts to kill it they couldnt (with what is said to be carried by shuffling on carpet).  On the 6th attempt where they fucking try like 8 times in a row, it wont die.  Then they TRY AGAIN and cant.  I stopped counting the amount of electricity they arced through this DIMM.  

 

I finally stopped watching 11 minutes in because I too can do stupid stuff to kill components to tell stories.

 

Ghost Stories.  

 

The title was almost good enough to watch, the content sucked so couldnt finish it.  Had hoped to learn something here for once in an LTT video, rather than just the forum of users that teach people things.

 

 

 

 

[Egg-Roll]

26 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

The title was almost good enough to watch, the content sucked so couldnt finish it.  Had hoped to learn something here for once in an LTT video, rather than just the forum of users that teach people things.

Yea over 12 years no dead components for me. I personally watched it to watch Linus suffer

[brandishwar]

This is one of those topics for which history is a necessary part of the discussion. Since in doing this experiment, you basically ignored the advances in PCB design that allow for better ESD protection, along with published standards for minimizing ESD risk. This is about on par with the whole "cable management doesn't matter" video you made in which you used a modern chassis with several 120mm fans for airflow, completely ignoring the history of the concept and recommendations.

 

There are several things that protect against ESD, all of which are likely integrated into those DDR2 RAM sticks, and all of which you basically had to overwhelm to kill them. This includes a ground plane along with other components as part of an overall grounding strategy that aims to minimize the risk of ESD to sensitive components. There are published guidelines and standards for ESD protection and grounding. A simple Google search would've provided that information, which would've informed you on WHY you had to go to some extreme lengths to kill the RAM sticks, and why your initial attempts weren't working as well as you thought.

 

This doesn't mean you should be careless in handling PC components, but it does mean you don't need to be paranoid. But there was a time where paranoia of ESD was necessary, but it's been quite a long while since that was the case.

[RejZoR]

What I'm wondering more if fabrication scale has any effect on resilience. I mean, what was DDR2 made in something like 65nm node? Can't find any info right now, but it had to be that or even larger. Could this make electronics more resilient than modern 16nm or 7nm?

[bigmug]

I wonder when LTT will stop recommending grounding to a PSU or similar objects? The only potential difference you need to eliminate is the one between yourself and your components. The rest of the world makes zero difference, and connecting yourself to a ground lead or a sink could actually kill you if you're unlucky! So please LTT and others, stop recommending these dangerous and ineffective "grounding" methods!

Connect yourself to the case using an ESD strap, or at the very least, touch the case with one hand often throughout most of the build.
 

[Nathanpete]

I feel like a 12-15 volt shock on a high frequency of like 200 Hz is the most realistic thing. And by realistic I mean you are dancing in socks on carpet while working in a PC. 

[DrMacintosh]

I really thought they would kill more than just RAM. Lol. 

[CommanderAlex]

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

I really thought they would kill more than just RAM. Lol. 

At least do the motherboard of all things, I would have enjoyed the video more if they did that or a video card. They are most likely MORE expensive than the RAM you would probably be putting in your build. 

[vsteel]

Few things I want to mention on this. 

 

1. History is important for ESD.  In the 70s and 80s it was really important.  There were a lot of parts killed by ESD back then because they didn't have the protection which came later.   In the next few decades the parts got pretty robust protection.   If you fast forward to the last few years the parts are getting more sensitive again.  As fab geometries are shrinking they are also going lower voltage with increased speed.  To get the data eyes they need the circuitry for ESD protection is getting smaller.   ESD is getting serious again.
    
2. ESD doesn't just kill parts, it can cause longevity issues and/or function issues.   If you have every had a component that seemed to have a ghost in the machine, it could have been caused by ESD.  Ever have a part seem to last a too short of time, it could have been ESD causing the shortened life.  ESD fails can be hard to track in a non manufacturing setting where data analysis can't be used to detect the fallout.  A person in their home might just chalk it up to bad luck or say manufacturer X just makes crappy parts when you were the cause.
    
3. Parts in the motherboard are better protected because of the grounding that is there when the machine is plugged in.   Most times the ground takes the hit and not the parts.  When you feel the shock that is 3000V or higher.  Most parts can die at 500V or less, a lot of the industry is going to 50V control.   While qualifying ESD shoes I was holding on a special meter to measure my voltage, jumping in the air to break contact with the floor I could get a charge momentarily of 2000V.   This is special equipment and not something you would ever see on a DVM, it isn't setup correctly to catch the ESD spikes.  Using a field meter I can take one swipe on non ESD plastic and generate over 1000V field.
    
4. The charge on the part is not the issue, it is the speed of the increase or the decrease of the charge.  That is why ESD materials are dissipative and not conductive.  Not only is there a maximum resistance for materials, there is a minimum required resistance.  If you want to ground yourself you can touch the case or use a metal band with a cord that can be plugged in (The cloth band ESD straps are crap and have a huge fail rate.)  The reason they say the case or the power supply is that is the common ground.  When the motherboard is in the case and the power supply plugged in they are basically at the same potential.  The parts that are coming out of the bag shouldn't have a charge on them.  If you don't have a metal band I would plug the power supply in with the power switch off and touch a bare part on it (a screw or any exposed metal will work).  Put the power supply in the case which most are in metal and will make sure there is no charge on the case.  I would then put the motherboard in, which shouldn't have any charge and when you install it into the case the screws will ground it to the case.  The rest of the parts should be good then because as long as you are not generating charge, they won't have it either.  Do keep yourself grounded though either by touching the grounded power supply or case a lot.  When you move the friction against your clothes will generate static. 
    
5. Humidity will play a part in ESD generation.  For example if the humidity is under 30% then paper and cardboard are static generators while over 30% they aren't and you don't need to worry about them.  Just like you don't shock yourself walking over carpet when the humidity is high. 

In the video they were playing with DDR2 parts which have A LOT more ESD protection circuitry than DDR4 and the coming DDR5. 

 

[Kilrah]

7 hours ago, bigmug said:

I wonder when LTT will stop recommending grounding to a PSU or similar objects?

Never because it's the industry standard and how you're supposed to do it. And I'm not talking of "PC building", I'm talking of electronics manufacturing in general. 

 

7 hours ago, bigmug said:

and connecting yourself to a ground lead or a sink could actually kill you if you're unlucky!

Not at all, ESD straps are high resistance for that very reason...

[bigmug]

1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

Never because it's the industry standard and how you're supposed to do it. And I'm not talking of "PC building", I'm talking of electronics manufacturing in general. 

 

Not at all, ESD straps are high resistance for that very reason...

If you're in a manufacturing facility, you'll have a common, safe, ground for all working surfaces and workers, yes. But in a domestic building, you can rarely be sure that the ground is, and always will be, safe. And it STILL doesn't matter one iota that you've equalized potential with the ground if you're at a different potential than the components and case you're building in. And conversely, the ONLY thing that matters is that you're at the same potential as the components and case you're building in.

Relying on a very cheap ESD strap being manufactured correctly to keep you safe from lethal shock is not a good proposition.

[Kilrah]

2 hours ago, bigmug said:

And it STILL doesn't matter one iota that you've equalized potential with the ground if you're at a different potential than the components and case you're building in.

That's why when you want to do it right your components are on a grounded antistatic mat, your case is grounded, and you are grounded with a strap. 

 

2 hours ago, bigmug said:

But in a domestic building, you can rarely be sure that the ground is, and always will be, safe.

What? If it isn't you have way bigger problems than the high resistance of an antistatic strap that would at worst give you a little shock, while touching any metal-cased appliance in your home (like, for example, your PC case) would kill you straight. 

[Drama Lama]

when killing electronics by dropping them isn't enugh

[Granular]

I would have gone with 'Can static kill your PC? The answer may shock you.' for the title.

[greenhorn]

5 hours ago, Kilrah said:

5 hours ago, bigmug said:

But in a domestic building, you can rarely be sure that the ground is, and always will be, safe.

What? If it isn't you have way bigger problems than the high resistance of an antistatic strap that would at worst give you a little shock, while touching any metal-cased appliance in your home (like, for example, your PC case) would kill you straight. 

I have seen many apartments with defective ground connections, especially in older buildings. That doesn't mean that touching metal casings of appliances will kill you.
The only way this might happen is if due to some fault in that appliance the live wire were to get connected to that casing. Sometimes, a metal casing of an improperly grounded device can give you a little shock without any live wire touching it due to induction, but usually that voltage drops quickly when you are touching it, because there is not much power available.
In some older electrical systems, there are bridges from neutral to ground (which now is not allowed anymore where I live). This would at least, if a live wire were to touch the "grounded" parts, trip a breaker (although at a much higher current than a GFCI/RCD).

[Kilrah]

9 minutes ago, greenhorn said:

The only way this might happen is if due to some fault in that appliance the live wire were to get connected to that casing.

He said "you can't be sure the ground is safe", but the only way it could be unsafe is if it was live... that's what I was pointing out, there are many ways it can be broken but only becoming live would be "unsafe" and when that happens you have much more pressing worries than an antistatic band.

[Tan3l6]

I have lost all fear of ESD for a while now...

[LeadMagnet]

This was a fun watch, but was unfortunately posted about four days too late to save me from myself.