MSI makes a RTX 3090 look like a GTX480

[Bombastinator]

46 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

And with those connectors the card is still way shorter than many, many monster coolers that came afterwards, so the argument of case compatibility is dubious at best.

(e.g., compare your picture and this other one:

  Hide contents

which one is more likely to be "too long"?)

 

I for one would love to see more options with horizontal connectors at the back, it would have been more convenient than vertical connectors at the back in a number of cases (and either is better than connectors in the middle of the card, which is the worst, angled or not).

I didn’t originally have that particular card.  I had a single slot version.  It was not particularly short as I recall.  

[D13H4RD]

This card is most likely designed with NVLink use in mind. 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

my rx480 is hot enough w/o it being a 3090.

[Kroon]

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

Sure and that is very old before GPGPU was even possible so not a thing. Every GPU after CUDA compute came out and Nvidia saw Geforce cards used in servers they've had the requirement to have the power connectors on the top of the cards

 

You mean like this 2080 ti?

 

Every single graphic card generation (Both from nVidia and AMD) have a few models with power connections in the back. This is specially true for cards that are somewhat shorter then normal like some 1050 cards. This is Nothing that is against nVidias rules but rather a question of chassi compatibility, when cards become over 30cm long it simply wont tin in lot of chassis and the connectors move. 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Kroon said:

Every single graphic card generation (Both from nVidia and AMD) have a few models with power connections in the back

Got any examples other than a Kingpin card (which breaks every other Nvidia rule also)? I have honestly not seen rear connectors on any AIB models, also I don't really look at xx50 either and those aren't really cards anyone would be putting in servers for compute so I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia doesn't care about those cards as much as the higher models, much in the same way I do not care about them either.

 

1 hour ago, Kroon said:

This is Nothing that is against nVidias rules but rather a question of chassi compatibility, when cards become over 30cm long it simply wont tin in lot of chassis and the connectors move. 

No as far as I know this actually is a design rule in place by Nvidia and has been talked about by ServeTheHome and off the record by AIBs. For example the Zotac GTX 1080 Mini which is a very short card still has the connector on the top not the rear. Same goes for all the GTX 980/970 mini cards I've seen too, and GTX 760 Mini etc.

 

It's also for this same reason Nvidia changed their EULA to not "allow" Geforce cards in server/datacenter usage, basically meaning they will no longer provide support as EULA's are pretty well meaningless other than to use as grounds for that sort of thing.

 

Talked about in this video, near the start and also just after 9 min mark.

[Maticks]

It's got a built in waffle maker

[Kroon]

30 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Got any examples other than a Kingpin card (which breaks every other Nvidia rule also)? I have honestly not seen rear connectors on any AIB models, also I don't really look at xx50 either and those aren't really cards anyone would be putting in servers for compute so I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia doesn't care about those cards as much as the higher models, much in the same way I do not care about them either.

 

20XX series? I have nu clue, i really never cared about that generation.  10XX series:  Well I know almost all high end EVGA cards have en included bracket so you can chose where you want your connectors, top or rear.  I also know that MSI had one 1080 ti version with rear connections, blower style one.  Had the MSI one for about 3 days before I returned it to the store. Think it was PNY that had 2 models with rear connections. Also know that ASUS had one where the connectors was angled 45 degrees so that was also an option.  Thing is that there is a A LOT of different 1080 models so it's really hard to find the exact model I'm looking for.

 

I have asked on the local building forum for the exact model names so I might get back if you want to.  Another thing that was said on that forum surprised me, some of the really strange models (not only rear connections but really strange/fun cards) are EU and/or Asia only.  It's against EU laws for a supplier, like nVidia, to demand or set rules for how their product are sold.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Kroon said:

It's against EU laws for a supplier, like nVidia, to demand or set rules for how their product are sold.

No it isn't, EU has some pretty good laws but they cannot stop Nvidia from putting in place design limits like board power.  High end AIB cards do go above reference board power limit but only so much as Nvidia allows. Cards like the Kingpin get away with it by being very exclusive and also not putting the power unrestricted firmware on the card and instead making you download it separately (with a nice comical password on it ).

 

Even the colour on the box is controlled by Nvidia, it's required to be a specific green, this falls under branding and EU laws don't prevent that either.

[Kroon]

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

No it isn't, EU has some pretty good laws but they cannot stop Nvidia from putting in place design limits like board power.

 

Actually, nVidia can't force anything like that but if a manufacturer go outside spec there is no liability on nVidia.  that the law, I actually wish it was different because that would make my job much easier.

 

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Even the colour on the box is controlled by Nvidia, it's required to be a specific green, this falls under branding and EU laws don't prevent that either.

 

I'm so tempted to go to my local store right now and take a photo.  I do not know the percentage but a lot of the boxes here is not green if they are it's only a smal part where the nvidia logo are.

[leadeater]

18 minutes ago, Kroon said:

I'm so tempted to go to my local store right now.  I do not know the percentage but a lot of the boxes here is not green if they are it's only a smal part where the nvidia logo are.

Correct, where that logo is and where it says Geforce GTX/RTX [Model], that part must be green and the specific Nvidia green. Rest of box can be anything, but where Nvidia branding is present it must follow that rule.

 

18 minutes ago, Kroon said:

Actually, nVidia can't force anything like that but if a manufacturer go outside spec there is no liability on nVidia.  that the law, I actually wish it was different because that would make my job much easier.

All designs go through Nvidia for approval, if they don't approve it they don't (generally) get to make it. If you can actually point to me to the actual law that says otherwise literally everything I have heard from everyone, GN and other reviewers have all made these exact statements. You follow Nvidia's instructions or you don't get allocation or your design doesn't get approved, which is the same thing as not getting allocation.

 

Edit:

From what I understand is cards like the Kingpins are ones not gone through approval and use dies and memory pulled from allocations of other designs, and you're right they are unsupported by Nvidia but since they are so low volume they choose to do nothing about it.

[Kroon]

52 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Correct, where that logo is and where it says Geforce GTX/RTX [Model], that part must be green and the specific Nvidia green. Rest of box can be anything, but where Nvidia branding is present it must follow that rule.

 

That is international trademark law not anything to do with nVidia. Any trade marked logo most be within a certain color and shape of the one listed in the TM application. If you falling outside those specifications you can actually loose your trademark.  You first get a few warnings, company where I work have get one of those every few years so we have to remind our partners about it. 

 

 

54 minutes ago, leadeater said:

All designs go through Nvidia for approval, if they don't approve it they don't (generally) get to make it.

 

Whole 30-series out of spec cap debacle then?

 

 

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, Kroon said:

That is international trademark law not anything to do with nVidia. Any trade marked logo most be within a certain color and shape of the one listed in the TM application. If you falling outside those specifications you can actually loose your trademark.  You first get a few warnings, company where I work have get one of those every few years so we have to remind our partners about it. 

As I did say, branding. But that branding must also be present on the card, not just comply with Nvidia trademark. In the same way if you utilize HDMI then the HDMI logo and trademark must be on the product box and on the device.

 

It's no coincidence that the placement of the green square or section is on the end of the box facing outward when stacked along a shelf so you can see it, and at the same height from the bottom so even boxes of different heights it's all still nicely lined up.

Spoiler

[edit] Have a look back at GTX 400 & 500 series box art to see why Nvidia started controlling this a bit more. [/edit]

 

 

Also there kind of isn't "international trademark law", most countries have trademark laws and you need to register it in each country or it's not valid. There's a rather big exception to this, we all know which country that is . Well they have it but yea, you know how it works/doesn't work there lol.

 

2 hours ago, Kroon said:

Whole 30-series out of spec cap debacle then?

They were not out of spec, designs were approved by Nvidia and the fix was drivers not the physical design at all. Caps were in fact unrelated to the issue.

 

P.S. Also you need to remember that just because an EU law exists, whether or not it is applicable to manufacturing and design of cards outside of the EU is another matter. Just because a product is being sold in the EU doesn't actually mean it applies. In such cases where it does apply they can be denied to be sold, cases of that are few and far between (at least in PC parts).

[SFFDesigns]

I'm not sure how to view this card. I think it's a great water cooling candidate if it's a reference board, which it probably is.  Why else would you buy it tho, since I am assuming it can't be priced below the well superior FE.

 

 

GeForce cards can't be used in servers so that use case which would make sense doesn't exist. I guess compact NVLink setups is the one use case where this kind of makes sense?

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Hymenopus_Coronatus said:

GeForce cards can't be used in servers so that use case which would make sense doesn't exist. I guess compact NVLink setups is the one use case where this kind of makes sense?

You can, it's only "not supported". Nothing stops you from doing it.

[SFFDesigns]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

You can, it's only "not supported"

Oh really? I did not know that, thank you for letting me know!

[divito]

Connectors on the end did result in case compatibility issues, but depending on your setup, the connector can still pose a problem regardless. I miss my 8800GT:
 

 

Ultimately, it's an interesting concept and will be interesting to see some reviews and real world application.

[Nathanpete]

I actually quite like the design of the card, at least compared to other blower style cards from AIBs, but the 10xx FE cards still blow it out of the water in terms of looks. 

Something about the color choices makes me think about the Nvidia DGX workstations, and being a 3090, would actually make sense as a use. (Except that the current DGX workstation uses A100 GPUs which are better suited for the target customer of a DGX station.) But the DGX series are also watercooled, and everybody has already mentioned this as a water-cooling candidate. 

 

I personally don't like it when vertically mounted GPUs have their aesthetics hurt by the power cables sticking out the top (maybe it is just me), and if the case is long enough, I would prefer to have the cables coming out the rear before being tucked away. And because it is a blower style card, the early vertical-mount cases with the bracket to close to the glass would be less of an issue because of the nature of how blower style cards work. (Albeit, the diagrams on MSI's site for this card does have some of the air flowing out the fan's side through the exposed heatsink, which is not a good idea for vertically mounted GPUs of any kind. 

 

Also I would really like this as a 3080 instead, because A) The cooling solution would be more reasonable, still not adequate, but a lot closer, and B) every other 3090 of a similar MSRP have WAY better cooling than this thing. 

 

And yes, this card is apparently designed for NVLink use per MSI's visual aid which I have attached: 

 

[GoodBytes]

You guys missed the most compelling feature of this graphics card:

Well, I guess, at least they are honest... there is at least that. I guess the marketing team either really had to scratch the bucket to find something good to say about it, or they all went in holidays, and let the unpaid intern handle it.

 

Source: GeForce RTX™ 3090 AERO 24G (msi.com)

[Unixsystem]

15 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

And with those connectors the card is still way shorter than many, many monster coolers that came afterwards, so the argument of case compatibility is dubious at best.

(e.g., compare your picture and this other one:

  Reveal hidden contents

which one is more likely to be "too long"?)

Back in the day we had these things called "disk drives". Filled the whole front of the case with slots for them. Hard to believe, I know, but back then we could only fit one air choked intake fan instead of three. 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

45 minutes ago, Unixsystem said:

Back in the day we had these things called "disk drives". Filled the whole front of the case with slots for them. Hard to believe, I know, but back then we could only fit one air choked intake fan instead of three. 

All my cases have front bays. Also, I'm likely older than you  

The point still stand that "back then" the connectors were in the back, and as they got relocated somewhere else, the total length, cables included, of graphic cards sky-rocketed anyway.

[Unixsystem]

19 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

All my cases have front bays. Also, I'm likely older than you  

The point still stand that "back then" the connectors were in the back, and as they got relocated somewhere else, the total length, cables included, of graphic cards sky-rocketed anyway.

Yeah, but is this new card substantially shorter than other 3080 models? If it's the same length plus the rear connectors, then we're back at square one. 

[Brooksie359]

On 12/19/2020 at 3:26 PM, Fasauceome said:

Hopefully people see this card as a cheap and easy water cooling candidate, and nothing more. I would highly doubt that this card fares well outside a server rack with extreme airflow.

 

And if you're looking for a "cheap" RTX 3090, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Yeah I don't know who would pay 1500 dollars for a blower style cooler. Water cooling is the only way this would make sense especially when I suspect that higher end cooler designs aren't that much more expensive and at 1500 dollars even a 100 dollar difference isn't that big of a difference. 

[WkdPaul]

On 12/19/2020 at 4:05 PM, LordWk said:

Atleast we can use our PC as a BBQ again

* KFC enters chat *

 

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1284354-kfc-releases-its-own-gaming-console-possibly-faster-than-xbox-or-playstation-oh-and-it-warms-chicken/

 

 

[sub68]

10 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

* KFC enters chat *

 

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1284354-kfc-releases-its-own-gaming-console-possibly-faster-than-xbox-or-playstation-oh-and-it-warms-chicken/

 

 

umm not gonna lie KFC has a game

 

[KagedStorm]

Looks pretty cool but not something I'd specifically look to buy