Facebook claims Apple is "ruining the internet as we know it"

[mikey_c]

13 minutes ago, YellowJersey said:

I wouldn't necessarily say that apple is "protecting our privacy." It's more like "we want our customer's data for ourselves, you can't have any."

But Apple isn't in the business of selling consumer data...

[YellowJersey]

51 minutes ago, mikey_c said:

But Apple isn't in the business of selling consumer data...

I could have sworn Linus mentioned something on WAN Show about this. But I think they want to monetise the data for themselves. Not 100% sure, though.

[divito]

"Ruining" the internet might be bit of a stretch, but it's not like Facebook is incredibly inaccurate in some of their statements.

Anyone that's used Facebook for ad purposes probably knows the impact it can have. Removing that aspect, while good in a sense for user privacy, will inevitably trickle down to the businesses that have tried to use it for tailored purposes in growing their business. 

[Mling]

billions of dollars and the world's best programmers still can't get Zuckerberg a personality.

[Mling]

do people still use facebook? I occaisonally go there to use messenger and facebook looks desserted. No one I know posts anything on there.

[mikey_c]

23 minutes ago, Mling said:

do people still use facebook? I occaisonally go there to use messenger and facebook looks desserted. No one I know posts anything on there.

2.7 billion monthly active users

[StDragon]

 Pass the butter please.

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, mikey_c said:

2.7 billion monthly active users

It sounds like they are grouping Facebooks other platforms in that statistic. I doubt 2.7 billion use Facebook specifically. Sure I know most of the people i know have a Facebook but most of the people i know also don't actually actively use it. Obviously people still use it but 2.7 billion in 1 month seems not quite right to me. 

[poochyena]

Facebook is right though. I'm not seeing any comments explaining how they are wrong.

[abc_123]

8 hours ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

In that case facebook and other services could just limit functionality if those settings are not enabled, or hell, even disable all functionality entirely and/or put it behind a paywall, I don't think anyone who uses popular services like youtube or facebook will be willing to give up on these apps to be honest, like what are you going to do, use vimeo?

 

I absolutely hate this argument and it always feels so counter productive. Someone always makes it against any kind of attempt to improve privacy or consumer rights.

 

If Facebook does end up doing that then people will either opt in and there will be not much difference or they will stop using Facebook but on the sites/apps that don't force it user privacy will be improved. It will also allow people (who want to) to make more informed choices about what's happening with their data and make them aware they're being tracked.

 

But lets not ever try to make any improvement no matter how small because better things aren't possible.

[AndreiArgeanu]

1 hour ago, Emily123 said:

 

I absolutely hate this argument and it always feels so counter productive. Someone always makes it against any kind of attempt to improve privacy or consumer rights.

 

If Facebook does end up doing that then people will either opt in and there will be not much difference or they will stop using Facebook but on the sites/apps that don't force it user privacy will be improved. It will also allow people (who want to) to make more informed choices about what's happening with their data and make them aware they're being tracked.

 

But lets not ever try to make any improvement no matter how small because better things aren't possible.

It wasn't really an argument, nor was I saying that what apple's is trying to do isn't worth doing, or that it's impossible. I was just just saying what Facebook could hypothetically do, and showing that large companies like Google and Facebook could have a further reaching monopolistic behavior. But go ahead an imply things I never even said or inferred to start with.

[abc_123]

12 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

It wasn't really an argument, nor was I saying that what apple's is trying to do isn't worth doing, or that it's impossible. I was just just saying what Facebook could hypothetically do, and showing that large companies like Google and Facebook could have a further reaching monopolistic behavior. But go ahead an imply things I never even said or inferred to start with.

 

Then I'm sorry for misinterpreting your post. It was similar to a common argument I've seen a lot in the past.

 

[AndreiArgeanu]

15 minutes ago, Emily123 said:

 

Then I'm sorry for misinterpreting your post. It was similar to a common argument I've seen a lot in the past.

 

Perfectly understandable. Interesting to say the least, I haven't seen anyone like mentioning that as an argument though, at least in this forum.

[pythonmegapixel]

5 hours ago, poochyena said:

Facebook is right though. I'm not seeing any comments explaining how they are wrong.

Could you elaborate?

I don't think anyone is claiming that Facebook has said anything untrue - it's simply that what they've said is ethically pretty awful.

 

[RejZoR]

10 hours ago, YellowJersey said:

I could have sworn Linus mentioned something on WAN Show about this. But I think they want to monetise the data for themselves. Not 100% sure, though.

Of course they do. But they don't seem to be doing that in a creepy way like Google. I generally don't mind helping developers with telemetry or whatever if it's only and exclusively to make product better by giving them insight and if I CHOOSE to do so. Not like Microsoft where it's always ON and you can't do anything about it except brute block it on connection level. But we all know they always quickly become greedy and overstep that line and they start monetizing that data. Apple has been relatively good in this regard, they give you controls and they generally obey them. There is also no indication that they'd be selling the data, though I don't think they've done any external auditing or ever will. Just knowing that their primary income are physical products and services people pay for is in a way at least slightly reassuring they are not selling user data opposed to lets say Google who is like "look at all this free shit!" and you have to be brain dead not to raise an eyebrow given that Google is one of the richest companies in the world, by giving most of their stuff away for "free". I mean, it sounds a lot sus doesn't it?

[kakik09]

Facebook: Apple is ruining the internet as we know it.

Me: They are? GREAT!

[whm1974]

3 minutes ago, DriftMan said:

Good! The Internet as we know it is fucking shit, and we all know it. Cancel culture, consumerism culture, ad culture, spyware, adware, crypto mining, scalpers, hardware bubble, privacy concerns... Everything is shit right now, the only thing everyone enjoys is being able to communicate with others, but since the beginning of the Internet as a service it's been a thing via forums or mails so it's nothing new.

 

Good for Apple, fuck Faceshit and their tradition of destroying the Internet everyone used to love.

Well personally I had few problems using the Internet as is now. Do I think Things can be Improved? Well yes.

 

A few things for short:

 

1. Vast Reduction in how much Data Mining Companies are allowed to do.

2. Increased Privacy Protection. Start teaching School Children about preserving their Own.

 

I'll stop now before I'll go way Off Topic...

 

But Facebook does The same thing and worse that they are accusing Apple of doing.

[Monkey Dust]

11 hours ago, Mling said:

do people still use facebook? I occaisonally go there to use messenger and facebook looks desserted. No one I know posts anything on there.

They also own Instagram, which also runs on a harvest all your data model. Also, Whatsapp, but I'm not sure how or if they monetize it, I'm not sure if I recall seeing ads on it?

[whm1974]

2 minutes ago, DriftMan said:

Yes, of course they are doing worse things than Apple, it's the difference in their business models. Apple doesn't have to steal data, and I will be very surprise if anyone proves they are as bad as Google in terms of privacy.

 

I wouldn't be this salty about the matter, but because companies are actively forbidding open source solutions (blocking VPNs, locking bootloaders, not working without giving extra extra extra permissions, etc I can't help but complain about how everything is working right now

 

And since younger people are getting into the Internet... I think it's a good thing EU is trying to ""protect"" their citizens' privacy

Well I don't have to buy a Apple Product. It is not like the Company has Dominated the Market for PCs, OSes, and Phones.

 

Microsoft on the other hand.

[Lord Vile]

14 hours ago, YellowJersey said:

I could have sworn Linus mentioned something on WAN Show about this. But I think they want to monetise the data for themselves. Not 100% sure, though.

Nah Apple aren't in the selling data business. They gather analytics to improve stuff/fix stuff but that's also opt in for both Apple and 3rd party devs. Aslso don't listen to Linus regarding Apple he doesn't have a clue. Remember the new Mac Mini is just an iPad...

[Master Delta Chief]

It's rather ironic for Facebook to claim that Apple is ruining the internet as we know it since Facebook had a much more negative impact over the years due to a number of reasons that are well known to the people. I doubt that small businesses will be largely impacted by this as there are other means of doing advertisment. 

[Kisai]

10 hours ago, poochyena said:

Facebook is right though. I'm not seeing any comments explaining how they are wrong.

Facebooks entire business model is ads, it sells no other products that are independent of "login to facebook"

 

Had Google+ taken off, Google might have the same argument.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Nah Apple aren't in the selling data business. They gather analytics to improve stuff/fix stuff but that's also opt in for both Apple and 3rd party devs. Aslso don't listen to Linus regarding Apple he doesn't have a clue. Remember the new Mac Mini is just an iPad...

Apple isn't in the data harvesting business, they sell expensive luxury toys to people who think they need them to stay stylish.

 

Apple already knows who their demographic is:

- People who make 100K+/yr

- People who don't care what their device is made of

 

If you're not in both of those categories, why are you buying apple? To look like you're rich? If Android wasn't complete rubbish, I'd certainly pick something else, but too bad iOS is less evil OS. It enjoys a position that not even Microsoft enjoys with Windows being de-facto desktop standard, where Apple owns the entire ecosystem.

 

There are better options than existing macs, there has never been a legitimate reason to buy a desktop Apple machine other "we already invested into the Apple Ecosystem", especially when the only compelling Apple desktop is the Mac Pro. The rest is just style.

 

 

[Lord Vile]

4 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Apple isn't in the data harvesting business, they sell expensive luxury toys to people who think they need them to stay stylish.

 

Apple already knows who their demographic is:

- People who make 100K+/yr

- People who don't care what their device is made of

I think you need to come back to planet earth. Apple products are not that expensive and "not care what their product is made of" when a large portion of Apples marketing is all of the recycled materials they use in their products? 

Quote

 

If you're not in both of those categories, why are you buying apple? To look like you're rich? If Android wasn't complete rubbish, I'd certainly pick something else, but too bad iOS is less evil OS. It enjoys a position that not even Microsoft enjoys with Windows being de-facto desktop standard, where Apple owns the entire ecosystem.

 

There are better options than existing macs, there has never been a legitimate reason to buy a desktop Apple machine other "we already invested into the Apple Ecosystem", especially when the only compelling Apple desktop is the Mac Pro. The rest is just style.

"compelling" is a tricky term. For a graphics artist the 5K iMacs are great and the new M1 Mac Mini is a solid SFF PC that you could honestly just do all the work you need to on. The MacBook air has solidified its place as the best laptop for 95% of people with the m1 performance bump too. 

[Granular]

That's not accurate. Facebook is ruining internet as we know it.

Apple is ruining phones and computers.

[pythonmegapixel]

Just now, Granular said:

That's not accurate. Facebook is ruining internet as we know it.

Personally I have a different outlook.

Facebook, along with Microsoft, Google, Amazon and other scumbag data-hoarding privacy-infringing anti-competitive companies, have created the internet as we know it. The internet where tracking across sites is the norm. The internet where clickbait is the only way to survive. The internet which multinationals are trying their hardest to monopolise.

 

From that perspective, Apple are ruining it. And that is a good thing.