Explain to the Newbie

[RussiansRule]

So I'm new to this world of technology and I want to know a little more than "Prebuilds suck" and everything else that has to do with pc

[Dedayog]

Youtube.  Forums.  Build.

 

You're asking for more information that one can relay in a forum post. 

 

Start by reading the forums here, etc.

[Letgomyleghoe]

Prebuilt should often have good face components, such as a ryzen 5 3600 and an ryzen 2070, 16gbs of ram, and a 1rb ssd, 

 

the problem is, all the components that aren’t named are bottom of the bucket, bad motherboards, bad psu, low speed ram, bad fans, everything that’s not named, you can automatically assume is bad

[minibois]

Just now, RussiansRule said:

So I'm new to this world of technology and I want to know a little more than "Prebuilds suck" and everything else that has to do with pc

Is there anything specific you want to know?

It's pretty difficult to wrap up my half a decade worth of 'knowledge' in one post.

 

As for prebuilt, my  main gripe with them is this:

1. silly configurations (while with a build your own system, you can decide where to spend the money)

2. no upgradability (because the motherboards are often proprietary, BIOS may lock out videocard, etc. it can be difficult to upgrade)

3. they cheap out on the things most people don't look at (like the PSU, motherboard, etc.)

 

I think this meme sums up that last part pretty well:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/fss65m/prebuilt_systems_be_like/

 

If you have any specific questions, be sure to ask them.

[Radium_Angel]

10 minutes ago, RussiansRule said:

Prebuilds suck

Not always true, it's just that most pre-builts are built to a price point, and usually quality get cut in favor of meeting said pricepoint.

There are many great prebuilds out there, but you have to know what you are looking for. 

[RussiansRule]

Well I probably want to know best value products like best value gpu, cpu, ram, memory, and so on, and if you could, why they are so good.

[sgtballs]

41 minutes ago, RussiansRule said:

So I'm new to this world of technology and I want to know a little more than "Prebuilds suck" and everything else that has to do with pc

Prebuilds can be just fine but you'll get more satisfaction and understanding of computers by building it yourself.  Start by watching some Youtube vids.  That should get the fire burning then start asking more specific questions.  Once you understand what everything does, then you can look at what are the best components for your needs and your budget.  Choose a budget, make a list of parts you think you want, then post them here for some feedback, then bulid the MF'er.  It's easier than you think.    

 

This will be fun  

[minibois]

37 minutes ago, RussiansRule said:

Well I probably want to know best value products like best value gpu, cpu, ram, memory, and so on, and if you could, why they are so good.

There are multiple best products, because it depends on what you are looking to spend.

 

If ProductA gets 50fps in a game and costs 100 euros

and ProductB gets 150fps in a game and costs 300 euros.

They have the same value (of 2 euros per fps), but they are in a different price bracket.

 

Basically that's how you compare the products. You see their pricing (for a CPU, it's important to factor in price of memory and the motherboard too) and see the performance it gets vs. the price you pay.

 

So it depends on what you are looking to spend (for the full system).

[RussiansRule]

3 minutes ago, minibois said:

There are multiple best products, because it depends on what you are looking to spend.

 

If ProductA gets 50fps in a game and costs 100 euros

and ProductB gets 150fps in a game and costs 300 euros.

They have the same value (of 2 euros per fps), but they are in a different price bracket.

 

Basically that's how you compare the products. You see their pricing (for a CPU, it's important to factor in price of memory and the motherboard too) and see the performance it gets vs. the price you pay.

 

So it depends on what you are looking to spend (for the full system).

So everything relies on budget and personal prefrence like RGB, and no RGB?

[minibois]

5 minutes ago, RussiansRule said:

So everything relies on budget and personal prefrence like RGB, and no RGB?

That and what you expect from your system, in terms of performance.

Let's say you want to spend 500 USD, but are expecting to play games at a 4K resolution at 144fps; that is not realistic. A system for that price would not be able to attain that level of performance.

 

At the same time, spending 3000 USD for a system to play Minesweeper (kind of unserious example, but just to get my point across), also does not make sense; as you can do that with much less.

[RussiansRule]

4 minutes ago, minibois said:

That and what you expect from your system, in terms of performance.

Let's say you want to spend 500 USD, but are expecting to play games at a 4K resolution at 144fps; that is not realistic. A system for that price would not be able to attain that level of performance.

 

At the same time, spending 3000 USD for a system to play Minesweeper (kind of unserious example, but just to get my point across), also does not make sense; as you can do that with much less.

So if you were planning to play semi-though games you would probably build a PC somewhere from 1,500-2000 usd?

[Eschew]

Hey there. If you're up for a bit of reading, I'd recommend these threads:

• DIY PC by Windspeed 36: The basic run-down on the parts in a PC build, what each part's purpose is, and why the parts have the features they have or how these features work.
• General Rules of Thumbs and Q&A Guide on Basic PC Parts by Gonio: A detailed guide on picking PC parts, understanding what each part's purpose is, and deciding what parts are best suited for your individual situation/intent.
• The Ultimate PC Part Compatibility Guide by Fgtfv567: A good guide on PC part compatibility that takes way more into account than PC Part Picker.

Ironically, I only checked these out after planning and building my trolley-PC...

Please note that these threads were written some time ago, so specific item recommendations may not apply to 2020. Some have TLDR's in them, some don't. Overall they're pretty well-written and easy to understand. 

[minibois]

2 minutes ago, RussiansRule said:

So if you were planning to play semi-though games you would probably build a PC somewhere from 1,500-2000 usd?

The way I see it, you basically have three tiers of budget for any sort of demands:

- The minimum. Barely scratches the surface of what you want to do

- The best value for your money (given the demands): maybe isn't the flashiest, may cut some corners, but won't cut corners where it counts; performance

- The high budget build: allows you to spend a little extra to get everything out of your PC.

 

Let's say you want to play the newest games at 1080p60fps. For the above options, that would probably be a budget of:

- 500 USD: could do this, but barely in many cases. you will have to cut settings somewhere

- 700-800 USD: best value option. Can play the games nicely for a couple years

- 1000-1200 USD: allows you to pick some luxuries, like RGB, nicer case, quieter cooler, etc.

 

For example, for around 1500 USD you could get a system like this:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor	$174.99 @ B&H
CPU Cooler	be quiet! Dark Rock Slim CPU Cooler	$64.99 @ B&H
Motherboard	MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard	$114.99 @ Best Buy
Memory	G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory	$104.99 @ Newegg
Storage	Samsung 970 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive	$99.99 @ Best Buy
Storage	Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$54.98 @ Newegg
Video Card	Zotac GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8 GB GAMING AMP Video Card	$709.99 @ B&H
Case	Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case	$99.98 @ Newegg
Power Supply	Corsair RMx (2018) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	$119.99 @ Newegg
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$1544.89
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-04-06 14:59 EDT-0400

Which could play games at 3840x2160@60fps or 1440p@144fps for the next couple of years, easily.

Not all these parts are the best bang-for-buck, but it's all premium good components which fit in the budget at hand.

 

You could totally ditch the cooler (for the stock cooler, which is just a bit louder), ditch the case for something cheaper, go for a cheaper SATA SSD, etc. as long as the core components (Ryzen 3600 + RTX 2080 Super + components to match) stay the same, your gaming performance will not be hindered.

[RussiansRule]

Hmm, Interesting I'll do some research and be back, but also wouldn't you include monitor, or does everyone just assume you have a good monitor?

14 minutes ago, Eschew said:

Hey there. If you're up for a bit of reading, I'd recommend these threads:

• DIY PC by Windspeed 36: The basic run-down on the parts in a PC build, what each part's purpose is, and why the parts have the features they have or how these features work.
• General Rules of Thumbs and Q&A Guide on Basic PC Parts by Gonio: A detailed guide on picking PC parts, understanding what each part's purpose is, and deciding what parts are best suited for your individual situation/intent.
• The Ultimate PC Part Compatibility Guide by Fgtfv567: A good guide on PC part compatibility that takes way more into account than PC Part Picker.

Ironically, I only checked these out after planning and building my trolley-PC...

Please note that these threads were written some time ago, so specific item recommendations may not apply to 2020. Some have TLDR's in them, some don't. Overall they're pretty well-written and easy to understand. 

 

11 minutes ago, minibois said:

The way I see it, you basically have three tiers of budget for any sort of demands:

- The minimum. Barely scratches the surface of what you want to do

- The best value for your money (given the demands): maybe isn't the flashiest, may cut some corners, but won't cut corners where it counts; performance

- The high budget build: allows you to spend a little extra to get everything out of your PC.

 

Let's say you want to play the newest games at 1080p60fps. For the above options, that would probably be a budget of:

- 500 USD: could do this, but barely in many cases. you will have to cut settings somewhere

- 700-800 USD: best value option. Can play the games nicely for a couple years

- 1000-1200 USD: allows you to pick some luxuries, like RGB, nicer case, quieter cooler, etc.

 

For example, for around 1500 USD you could get a system like this:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor	$174.99 @ B&H
CPU Cooler	be quiet! Dark Rock Slim CPU Cooler	$64.99 @ B&H
Motherboard	MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard	$114.99 @ Best Buy
Memory	G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory	$104.99 @ Newegg
Storage	Samsung 970 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive	$99.99 @ Best Buy
Storage	Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$54.98 @ Newegg
Video Card	Zotac GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8 GB GAMING AMP Video Card	$709.99 @ B&H
Case	Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case	$99.98 @ Newegg
Power Supply	Corsair RMx (2018) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	$119.99 @ Newegg
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$1544.89
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-04-06 14:59 EDT-0400

Which could play games at 3840x2160@60fps or 1440p@144fps for the next couple of years, easily.

Not all these parts are the best bang-for-buck, but it's all premium good components which fit in the budget at hand.

 

You could totally ditch the cooler (for the stock cooler, which is just a bit louder), ditch the case for something cheaper, go for a cheaper SATA SSD, etc. as long as the core components (Ryzen 3600 + RTX 2080 Super + components to match) stay the same, your gaming performance will not be hindered.

 

[minibois]

2 minutes ago, RussiansRule said:

Hmm, Interesting I'll do some research and be back, but also wouldn't you include monitor, or does everyone just assume you have a good monitor?

Whenever I spec out a PC for a certain budget - unless mentioned otherwise - I don't include a monitor.

For that matter, I don't include a mouse, keyboard, sound (headphones/speakers), etc. in that too. 

 

Usually that requires an entirely different sort of conversation to know the best option. Or people have that stuff already and just need a PC to match.

You could always go for a 2070 Super instead of 2080 Super to be able to fit a decent monitor in that budget and ditch to cooler to get a decent mouse+keyboard combo for the money saved there.

[RussiansRule]

Ok cool, here is another question that I have, What happens when your CPU has intergraded graphics and you slot in a graphics card?

3 minutes ago, minibois said:

Whenever I spec out a PC for a certain budget - unless mentioned otherwise - I don't include a monitor.

For that matter, I don't include a mouse, keyboard, sound (headphones/speakers), etc. in that too. 

 

Usually that requires an entirely different sort of conversation to know the best option. Or people have that stuff already and just need a PC to match.

You could always go for a 2070 Super instead of 2080 Super to be able to fit a decent monitor in that budget and ditch to cooler to get a decent mouse+keyboard combo for the money saved there.

 

[minibois]

1 minute ago, RussiansRule said:

What happens when your CPU has intergraded graphics and you slot in a graphics card?

The integrated graphics get turned off.

Keep in mind most Ryzen CPU's don't have integrated graphics (other than those which end with a 'G', like Ryzen 5 3400G).

Most Intel CPU's do have integrated graphics, except those which end with an F (so an i5 9400F does NOT have integrated graphics, an Intel i5 9400 does have).

 

Not that iGPU matters a ton in a gaming system, as you'll always want to be using the dedicated videocard.

[RussiansRule]

3 minutes ago, minibois said:

The integrated graphics get turned off.

Keep in mind most Ryzen CPU's don't have integrated graphics (other than those which end with a 'G', like Ryzen 5 3400G).

Most Intel CPU's do have integrated graphics, except those which end with an F (so an i5 9400F does NOT have integrated graphics, an Intel i5 9400 does have).

 

Not that iGPU matters a ton in a gaming system, as you'll always want to be using the dedicated videocard.

Yeah sorry I have another question how much fans should a Pc in the price range of 1000usd contain?

[Radium_Angel]

1 minute ago, RussiansRule said:

much fans should a Pc

Depends on the case. Good airflow does not mean a ton of fans.

 

[RussiansRule]

10 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Depends on the case. Good airflow does not mean a ton of fans.

 

i know I could google this but how do know which CPUs are compatible with which Motherboards

[Radium_Angel]

Just now, RussiansRule said:

CPUs are compatible with which Motherboards

Virtually all motherboards have a page which will list which CPUs will work with the board

[straight_stewie]

2 hours ago, RussiansRule said:

I want to know a little more than "Prebuilds suck"

On this point, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is increased cost. When you buy a prebuilt, you have to also pay for the money it cost to have someone "design" it, and then to have it built, shipped around, and marketed. I'm leaving out markup because you have to pay markup for components if you build your own PC too.

This means that a portion of your dollar goes towards costs that aren't directly reflected in the performance or quality of the end result, the PC that you bought. In other words, on the "useful amount of performance" (~$500+ USD) side of the scale, you can nearly always beat a prebuilt on virtually every metric for the same amount of money.

 

2 hours ago, RussiansRule said:

everything else that has to do with pc

Is there a specific thing you want to know? Are you more asking "how do computers work" or are you asking "what do I need to know to not have buyers remorse on my first computer", or what? Are there any specific questions you have?

[Stormseeker9]

2 hours ago, RussiansRule said:

Well I probably want to know best value products like best value gpu, cpu, ram, memory, and so on, and if you could, why they are so good.

Build your own! Far beter value for money. 

[Eschew]

1 hour ago, RussiansRule said:

i know I could google this but how do know which CPUs are compatible with which Motherboards

I categorize CPU/MOBOs in my head with Team Red and Team Blue. Team Red is easier to remember, Team Blue is... messy... The lists below are not comprehensive.

 

Team Red (AMD) - Socket AM4 MOBOs

*X470, B450, X370, B350 Chipsets may need BIOS updates for Ryzen 3000 Series.

 

Team Blue - LGA 1151 Socket MOBOs

(Not sure which are mainstream and which aren't for Intel...)

Take Team Blue's list with a hefty grain of salt, I haven't invested a lot of time looking at Intel products.

• Intel 300 Chipset (Z390, Z370, H370, H310, B360) MOBOs: Coffee Lake CPUs.
• Intel 200 Chipset (Z270, H270, B250) MOBOs: Kaby Lake CPUs.
• Intel 100 Chipset (Z170, H170, H110, B150) MOBOs: Skylake CPUs.

*Coffee Lake CPUs aren't compatible with Kaby Lake and Skylake MOBOs, despite using the same physical socket.

**Kaby Lake CPUs are compatible with Skylake MOBOs, but BIOS updates may be needed.

***Some Skylake CPUs are compatible with Kaby Lake MOBOs.

[RussiansRule]

3 hours ago, Eschew said:

I categorize CPU/MOBOs in my head with Team Red and Team Blue. Team Red is easier to remember, Team Blue is... messy... The lists below are not comprehensive.

 

Team Red (AMD) - Socket AM4 MOBOs

*X470, B450, X370, B350 Chipsets may need BIOS updates for Ryzen 3000 Series.

 

Team Blue - LGA 1151 Socket MOBOs

(Not sure which are mainstream and which aren't for Intel...)

Take Team Blue's list with a hefty grain of salt, I haven't invested a lot of time looking at Intel products.

• Intel 300 Chipset (Z390, Z370, H370, H310, B360) MOBOs: Coffee Lake CPUs.
• Intel 200 Chipset (Z270, H270, B250) MOBOs: Kaby Lake CPUs.
• Intel 100 Chipset (Z170, H170, H110, B150) MOBOs: Skylake CPUs.

*Coffee Lake CPUs aren't compatible with Kaby Lake and Skylake MOBOs, despite using the same physical socket.

**Kaby Lake CPUs are compatible with Skylake MOBOs, but BIOS updates may be needed.

***Some Skylake CPUs are compatible with Kaby Lake MOBOs.

Thanks a Lot guys really helps