Posted March 4, 2020 Amazon keeps records of every motion detected by its Ring doorbells, as well as the exact time they are logged down to the millisecond. Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51709247 Quote Amazon keeps records of every motion detected by its Ring doorbells, as well as the exact time they are logged down to the millisecond. The details were revealed via a data request submitted by the BBC. It also disclosed that every interaction with Ring's app is also stored, including the model of phone or tablet and mobile network used. One expert said it gave Amazon the potential for even broader insight into its customers' lives. "What's most interesting is not just the data itself, but all the patterns and insights that can be learned from it," commented independent privacy expert Frederike Kaltheuner. "Knowing when someone rings your door, how often, and for how long, can indicate when someone is at home. "If nobody ever rang your door, that would probably say something about your social life as well." She added that it remained unclear how much further "anonymised" data was also being collected. "This isn't just about privacy, but about the power and monetary value that is attached to this data." Amazon says it uses the information to evaluate, manage and improve its products and services. Motions and 'dings' The BBC originally made the data subject access request (DSAR) in January to tie into a wider investigation into the ways Amazon gathers and uses information about its customers. At that point, the firm declined to elaborate on what information was collected beyond its privacy notice's mentions of "data about your interactions", "device characteristics" and other such inexact terms. The records ultimately provided ran from 28 September 2019 until 3 February 2020. A Ring 2 Video Doorbell was in use over all this time, and a Ring Indoor Cam was added to the account over the final fortnight. Over the period, there were 1,939 individual "camera events" documented. These included: a motion being detected by the cameras' sensors a "ding" of the doorbell, when its button had been pressed by a visitor a remote "on-demand" action by the user to get a live video and audio feed and/or remotely speak to a visitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 4, 2020 I'd love to have that data myself, but I don't think Amazon necessarily needs to have it as well... PC SPECS: CPU: Intel Core i7 3770k @4.4GHz - Mobo: Asrock Extreme 4 (Z77) - GPU: MSI GeForce GTX 680 Twin Frozr 2GB - RAM: Crucial Ballistix 2x4GB (8GB) 1600MHz CL8 + 1x8GB - Storage: SSD: Sandisk Extreme II 120GB. HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1TB - PSU: be quiet! Pure Power L8 630W semi modular - Case: Corsair Obsidian 450D - OS: Windows 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 4, 2020 But why? Specs: Motherboard: Asus X470-PLUS TUF gaming (Yes I know it's poor but I wasn't informed) RAM: Corsair VENGEANCE® LPX DDR4 3200Mhz CL16-18-18-36 2x8GB CPU: Ryzen 9 5900X Case: Antec P8 PSU: Corsair RM850x Cooler: Antec K240 with two Noctura Industrial PPC 3000 PWM Drives: Samsung 970 EVO plus 250GB, Micron 1100 2TB, Seagate ST4000DM000/1F2168 GPU: EVGA RTX 2080 ti Black edition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, williamcll said: But why? Well like the article says, it can be used for insight into peoples' lives. And the strategy for companies these days is to collect everything in case they find a use for it in the future. Data storage is dirt cheap so if amazon finds a use for knowing how long someone rings the door for at your house they want to have that data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 4, 2020 Wow, think of all that facial recognition data they will be able to sell onwards, exact time and place for each face seen by the bell, cross reference that against every other entry in their database well that's got to be worth a bit more on top....right? I suppose that nowadays if you want privacy of any kind, toss out everything 'tech' other than the old Tube TV and VCR in the loft and start wearing a burka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 4, 2020 Isn't this old news? A few weeks back one of Amazon's lead hardware engineers stated that Ring, as a business and service, should be shut down immediately as the data collection policies they use are so aggresious they are probably illegal just about everywhere. And that's an employee of Amazon.... Main Rig:- Ryzen 7 3800X | Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming | 16GB Team Group Dark Pro 3600Mhz | Corsair MP600 1TB PCIe Gen 4 | Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse | Corsair H115i Platinum | WD Black 1TB | WD Green 4TB | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 650W | Asus TUF GT501 | Samsung C27HG70 1440p 144hz HDR FreeSync 2 | Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS | Server:- Intel NUC running Server 2019 + Synology DSM218+ with 2 x 4TB Toshiba NAS Ready HDDs (RAID0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 4, 2020 but is this not just the function of the system... why are people offended by it? my whole ring system, is set up to monitor presses, motion, by timestamping and video, and when people have interacted with the system, and like any other smart home element, it runs on a closed WIFI system, on it´s own locked IP array, with no access to normal wifi and LAN, to keep the traffic from scanning other elements of my network. and to keep "hackers" away from direct access to my normal network, since security in many of these devices is lackluster at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 4, 2020 Why are people buying this doorbell? They had it coming to have their privacy to be invaded. People say you are the product if you want something for free? Well guess what? You are still a product if you've paid. DAC/AMPs: Klipsch Heritage Headphone Amplifier Headphones: Klipsch Heritage HP-3 Walnut, Meze 109 Pro, Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, Amiron Wireless Copper, Tygr 300R, DT880 600ohm Manufaktur, T90, Fidelio X2HR CPU: Intel 4770, GPU: Asus RTX3080 TUF Gaming OC, Mobo: MSI Z87-G45, RAM: DDR3 16GB G.Skill, PC Case: Fractal Design R4 Black non-iglass, Monitor: BenQ GW2280 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, RasmusDC said: but is this not just the function of the system... why are people offended by it? my whole ring system, is set up to monitor presses, motion, by timestamping and video, and when people have interacted with the system, and like any other smart home element, it runs on a closed WIFI system, on it´s own locked IP array, with no access to normal wifi and LAN, to keep the traffic from scanning other elements of my network. and to keep "hackers" away from direct access to my normal network, since security in many of these devices is lackluster at best. Well it's transmitting this data to Amazon, and it's also collecting data on your phone that has the app installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 4, 2020 7 hours ago, CTR640 said: Why are people buying this doorbell? They had it coming to have their privacy to be invaded. People say you are the product if you want something for free? Well guess what? You are still a product if you've paid. I have the doorbell. This info means nothing to me. I live in a house with 4 people and multiple deliveries a week. Not to mention animals that set it off. So they gain lnothing by knowing when it goes off. Literally nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 9, 2020 On 3/4/2020 at 3:21 AM, Albi368 said: Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51709247 Links dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 9, 2020 collect all the data. Soon advertising will be everywhere and people will figure out ways to force you to spend money and effort into their stuff......the future is bleak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, GodSeph said: will figure out ways to force you to spend money and effort into their stuff They already trying it in the local Tesco, they re-arrange things periodically. Never worked on me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 10, 2020 On 3/4/2020 at 2:21 AM, Albi368 said: down to the millisecond You mean like you'd find with many run of the mill epoch timestamps? That's a bit sensationalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/4/2020 at 10:23 AM, RonnieOP said: I have the doorbell. This info means nothing to me. I live in a house with 4 people and multiple deliveries a week. Not to mention animals that set it off. So they gain lnothing by knowing when it goes off. Literally nothing. I think people are missing the point of a security system. If it doesn't track the minutiae, it's worthless. Where Amazon really over-sold it was with the Amazon Key system. I'm sorry, this is just a bad idea. Anyone who puts any kind of IoT/Cloud based door/garage-door lock system that can be unlocked remotely is begging for someone to rob them blind. Literately. Those TV shows where some dippity-do hacker crew turns the cameras off and unlocks the doors remotely. Think that, but rather it's the 12 year driving around on their bike wardriving for vulnerable locks/other devices. Cloud-storage of cameras that face the outside of the house is fine and practical really. Just don't put them near your pool/hottub. Anything that records a pool, hot tub, bathroom or bedroom should be on a closed loop and not uploaded to the cloud. Put one at every door and window and even if the crooks turn it off, they should be spotted casing the place before the service goes dead. This is why "neighborhood"'s of door and vehicle cameras is ultimately a good thing, even if they are not cloud recording. If your house is raided, chances are the perpetrator will be seen from the neighbors houses, and unless they go and kill the power to the entire neighborhood for an hour before raiding a house, it's unlikely they will get all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/4/2020 at 4:02 PM, huilun02 said: Next up, internet connected toilet and faucet welcome to japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/4/2020 at 6:28 AM, williamcll said: But why? Can you guarantee 100% that never in the future there would be a way to profit from these data, and will forever be useless to Amazon? If the answer is "no", that's why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 12, 2020 Unless you only have one entrance to your dwelling, there's nothing really to gain from any of this data, outside of knowing how often a customer is using their "remote" tool to check their camera or talk to someone at the door. If it's a feature people don't use, perhaps they can alter it or make it better to increase adoption. The phone models and mobile networks are of some value I suppose, but the times of day your doorbell rings, or how many times an animal, tree branch, or other such event triggers motion detection is overall pretty useless. My Classifieds Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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