Motherboards and how much bull!@#$ marketing there is out there...

[aaronvold47]

Hi first of all i want to say that i work as a salesman so i am very quick at recognizing marketing tricks like "natural, award winning..., mothers choice, 20% extra, extra durable, enhancement, premium etc..." So when i see electronic products with tags "OC, Super, Gaming, Pro Edition" this makes my laugh so hard.

Few week ago i bought Ryzen 5 2600 with Asus PRIME a320m-k motherboard. And guess what it works just fine. Internet is full of bull!@#$ (especialy YT channels that are actualy fronts for online stores), they do not recommend a320 motherboard becouse there is no cooling (radiators) on VRM or there is bad configuration of phases i am not an expert. Something about not getting maximum boost of cpu frequencies. And they recommend b450 motherboard... "Gaming version" to be exact. I watched ton of videos and read a lot of articles that tend to suggest that a320 is a office station motherboard or 1200- 1500 ryzen at best, maybe 2200G after bios update, but asus website clearly states that this model support newest Ryzen gen 3 "Zen 2" models without problem( https://www.asus.com/pl/Motherboards/PRIME-A320M-K/HelpDesk_CPU/ ). Then when i was choosing GPU i stumble across Nvidia gtx 1660 compareson. Cheapest Palit Storm OC has one fan, 3 heat pipes configuration and was as good when it comes to performance, temperature when compared to 50$ more expansive asus 3x fan model "super mego oc version or some other nonsense"

 

To add more salt to the wound there is a ton of reddit post about people advising people to not buy cheap MOBO becouse you can't OC it... Hmm If a peron is trying to find the cheapest way to make his CPU, GPU and Ram to work is it really smart for him to buy 100% more expensive MOBO that will not be enough to OC his CPU without better Cooling Fan and/or larger Case.

 

How much bull!@#$ there is when it come to MOBOs marketing. Do we really need all this cooling for normal use without OC <== which is propably like 95% of the population, Do i really need RGB support, M2 drive or SDD drive (omg my files copy faster - now my life is complete). Is it really worth it to add these extra dollars into motherboard instead of buying faster CPU itself or next gen GPU chipset.

 

So can you guys tell me what is the diffrence for a normal nonOC consumer between

asus prime a320m-k

gigabyte ab350m-ds3h v2

gigabyte b450m s2h

gigabyte b450 gaming

Other then GIVE ME MORE MONEY cuz you dum!

[Fasauceome]

3 minutes ago, aaronvold47 said:

So can you guys tell me what is the diffrence for a normal nonOC consumer between

asus prime a320m-k

gigabyte ab350m-ds3h v2

gigabyte b450m s2h

gigabyte b450 gaming

Other then GIVE ME MORE MONEY cuz you dum!

B450 motherboards have vastly superior memory speed support, and for a gaming focused machine, especially with a Ryzen CPU, that's important.

[Zando_]

RAM speed

overclocking

VRM count and quality

features like wifi, better audio, more M.2 slots, that kinda stuff

overall build quality of the mobo itself

etc

[r2724r16]

5 minutes ago, aaronvold47 said:

Do we really need all this cooling for normal use without OC <== which is propably like 95% of the population, Do i really need RGB support, M2 drive or SDD drive (omg my files copy faster - now my life is complete). Is it really worth it to add these extra dollars into motherboard instead of buying faster CPU itself or next gen GPU chipset.

You may not need any of those things but there are people that do. And that's why high-end motherboards exist.

[otfkyfyrjdej]

If you run the CPU stock, and buy commodity RAM, it's fine. Even on-board audio has been decent on recent budget boards. Same goes for capacitors, not too long ago cheaper motherboards had caps which went pop within five yeats. That being said, once you demand anything more from the motherboard, be it better IO, memory support, VRMs or specific features like more nVME slots, buying a higher end motherboard isn't that large an investment.

[aaronvold47]

14 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

RAM speed

overclocking

VRM count and quality

features like wifi, better audio, more M.2 slots, that kinda stuff

overall build quality of the mobo itself

etc

So if i have a320m will 3900x reach it maximum boost speed (stock without overclocking), What is the diffrance between 4 capacitors and 4+3 and 8+2? How much does does that radiator on "gigabyte ab350m-ds3h v2" helps compere to the one covering Gaming verion. Is it like 1-2 degrees or is it bullcrap?

[Zando_]

Just now, aaronvold47 said:

So if i have a320m will 3900x reach it maximum boost speed (stock without overclocking), What is the diffrance between 4 capacitors and 4+3 and 8+2? How much does does that radiator on "gigabyte ab350m-ds3h v2" helps compere to the one covering Gaming verion. Is it like 1-2 degrees or is it bullcrap?

The 3900X would be uh... yeah you're not hitting max boost, not having a stable experience because the VRMs on an A320 board will overheat, hell you might brick the mobo or the chip, IDK what actually happens when you put a power hungry chip in a mobo that can't feed it. 

 

There's more to the VRMs than only phases, the quality of said phases matters as well. I'm not an authority on the subject so I can't explain it all to you, but there's limitations to how much power they can feed to something. The less power the push the cooler they run. So if I have a VRM setup that can push 600W to a CPU, it'll run nice and cool when only pushing 200W. But if I try and run a CPU that pulls 200W on a mobo that can only push 150W, there's gonna be issues. Temp differences between proper VRM cooling and shit cooling is probably like 10-30C, not 1-2. 

 

I am reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaally confused as to where you're seeing a radiator on a motherboard? Even in custom looped systems the radiator mounts to the case. If you mean the heatsinks on the VRMs, those are heatsinks. If they have fins, then the finned part is called a finstack. A radiator is quite different. 

[samcool55]

Well chipset wise, there are differences. Do they matter for you? That's up to you.

They matter for some people, but for others they don't. It's all depending on what you want and what you need.

https://optocrypto.com/amd-b450-vs-b350-vs-x470-differences-between-chipsets/

 

To list the difference between the gigabyte B450M-S2H and the gigabyte B450 Gaming X

2 DIMM slots vs 4

4 SATA ports vs 6

Gaming has better VRM and better VRM heatsinks (important for CPU's with a high TDP or systems that are known to have high internal temps)

1 PCI-Ex16 slot vs 2

stereo audio vs 7.1 surround audio

6 usb ports vs 8 (both have 4 usb 3.0 ports, others are 2.0)

vga/dvi/hdmi vs dvi/hdmi

dedicated ps/2 mouse and keyboard port vs single combo ps/2 port.

 

This is just for those 2 ports that I can find.

There is probably more and both are still quite basic boards.

 

Marketing is everywhere, obviously but most people here don't even look at that stuff.

[samcool55]

12 minutes ago, aaronvold47 said:

So if i have a320m will 3900x reach it maximum boost speed (stock without overclocking), What is the diffrance between 4 capacitors and 4+3 and 8+2? How much does does that radiator on "gigabyte ab350m-ds3h v2" helps compere to the one covering Gaming verion. Is it like 1-2 degrees or is it bullcrap?

Unlikely that the 3900x runs at foll speed because the VRM will be pushed really hard, overheat and throttle back.

We are not talking about caps here, but about mosfets, they decide how good the VRM actually is.

You can get a few phases but with mosfets that are rated for 60A (quite high) but you can also get more phases and get mosfets with a lower rating (40A).

If you want to know how a VRM exactly works:

Yes it does take half an hour to fully understand it. That's how complex they are if you really want to understand it.

 

edit: also we are not talking about 1-2 degrees but more around 10-20 degrees. VRM's can get HOT, like 105°C before they hold back.

To understand temps and watts and amps and everything that comes with it, this video explains it!

Also it's 40 minutes long...

 

[aaronvold47]

4 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

I am reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaally confused as to where you're seeing a radiator on a motherboard? Even in custom looped systems the radiator mounts to the case. If you mean the heatsinks on the VRMs, those are heatsinks. If they have fins, then the finned part is called a finstack. A radiator is quite different. 

Good to know... Thx for correcting me

[aaronvold47]

9 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Unlikely that the 3900x runs at foll speed because the VRM will be pushed really hard, overheat and throttle back.

We are not talking about caps here, but about mosfets, they decide how good the VRM actually is.

You can get a few phases but with mosfets that are rated for 60A (quite high) but you can also get more phases and get mosfets with a lower rating (40A).

 

edit: also we are not talking about 1-2 degrees but more around 10-20 degrees. VRM's can get HOT, like 105°C before they hold back.

 

So why is it so hidden knowlage. Shouldn't it be like the most important spec in stores. And why asus website don't worn about this. So if i understand it correctly my Ryzen 5 2600 will not reach it's maximum boost speed, voltage to cpu will drop... but motherboard will not just randomly explode after 5 hours of gaming in a hot summer day.

Is Everest is still a thing to check PC components and test stuff?

[samcool55]

Just now, aaronvold47 said:

So why is it so hidden knowlage. Shouldn't it be like the most important spec in stores. And why asus website don't worn about this. So if i understand it correctly my Ryzen 5 2600 will not reach it's maximum boost speed, voltage to cpu will drop... but motherboard will not just randomly explode after 5 hours of gaming in a hot summer day.

Is Everest is still a thing to check PC components and test stuff?

I have honestly no idea. Probably because it's too complex for the marketing department?

It is important, but also very complex because it can easily take an hour to explain why vrm X is better than vrm Y.

 

It is very likely the 2600 will work fine on a B320 board tho, as long as the BIOS is updated because when B320 launched there was only the 1000-series.

It doesn't need a lot of power so it doesn't need a strong VRM. The simple rule is: get a board that has a heatsink on the VRM. I basically ignore everything without a heatsink. VRM's produce heat and that heat needs to go somewhere. Even if it is a small heatsink it's a lot better than nothing.

 

Everest is long gone, however it's called aida64 now and that is used a LOT. It's really good, but not free.

That and HWinfo are good tools to monitor and test everything.

[xg32]

42 minutes ago, aaronvold47 said:

.

marketing doesn't have to give useful facts, it just has to be effective for sales.

 

If you don't have time for research on motherboards, there are reliable tier lists out fairly early for each gen (just google), a decent b450 mobo is 100usd, not much savings to be had there.

 

The 3900x is another beast, the cheapest motherboard i'd use for it is the x470-f or the x570 elite (personal preference)

[Jurrunio]

1 hour ago, aaronvold47 said:

So why is it so hidden knowlage. Shouldn't it be like the most important spec in stores. And why asus website don't worn about this. So if i understand it correctly my Ryzen 5 2600 will not reach it's maximum boost speed, voltage to cpu will drop... but motherboard will not just randomly explode after 5 hours of gaming in a hot summer day.

Because the general public don't care, so there isn't a big pressure for them to be clearer with what they're using on their stuff? You're entering enthusiast territory.

 

53 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

dude you took this way too personally.

It's pretty much mandatory for science-subject students like I do to say, that you yourself is a big radiator for your infrared radiation output

[Harry Voyager]

I recall Gamers Nexus has a video up on VRMs heating. They took a lower end board with bare VRMs and ran an overclocked CPU on it. What ended up happening was the system would look fine while the VRMs were getting well over their Max temperature rating, and it ended up causing the system to intermittently throttle or crash. 

 

Under the normal designed loads they were fine, but once you got beyond it, they gave no warning at all that there was a problem; the only way you'd figure it out was to put thermocouples on the VRM modules to check.

 

Motherboards are complex machines that a lot of money goes through, so there's going to be a lot of dodgy sales talk around them too, and if it's expensive to implement and doesn't sell boards, it's going to go on the chopping block. 

[WkdPaul]

* thread cleaned *

 

Please keep this thread on-topic