foxconn forced schoolchildren to work overtime/overnight illegally

[yolosnail]

2 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

Eventually maybe this

 

FoxConn = Slave Master who considers is employees as slaves

You know what, if you just changed the word 'forced' to 'coerced' I'd be fine with it, because it technically is coercion, but they weren't forced

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

You know what, if you just changed the word 'forced' to 'coerced' I'd be fine with it, because it technically is coercion, but they weren't forced

well... Knowing that coercion is a way to force someone to do something against their will... Therefore OP can use the term "force*...

The beauty of language! French people are really good with words, look at all the great authors we have...

 

Edit: Oh! And I don't need to change anything, I'm not OP! ^o^

Edited August 9, 2019 by Guest

[rockking1379]

9 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Our lunch was 50 minutes. But what I was saying is I would only have two classes a day and then from 12 onwards I would be at work until 6 or so

Back when I was in high school, mainly senior year, I would get out at 3pm. Be on the clock by 4pm. Work until 1am. Shower, play two hours of video games. Snag 4-5 hours of sleep. And be back in class by 8am. Granted by end of senior year I was a legal adult so labor rules changed dramatically. But I had been doing that schedule for months before I turned 18. 

[yolosnail]

Just now, Cora_Lie said:

@spartaman64 Don't waste your time anymore, he has decided to use the definition of the dictionnary that suitis him best. This is no more "semantics", but plain and full fallacy.

Don't act like you didn't use a dictionary that suited you best either.

We're both as bad as each other

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

Don't act like you didn't use a dictionary that suited you best either.

We're both as bad as each other

I didn't "chose" anything, I typed "coercion definition", got the 1st result and copy-paste it in my post.

I didn't even have to play fish to find it, it was there plain and simple.

[Trik'Stari]

9 hours ago, Sauron said:

You can give a shit and recognize that the problem is systemic and that sadly we depend on these corporations to conduct our daily lives. Change can't come from a boycott by people who have no institutional power.

Systemic solutions only create more systemic problems.

 

Example: China has a thriving industry because people took systemic actions to solve systemic problems here in the US. This caused the cost of doing business to go up, and thus manufacturers moved elsewhere (China) where the same problem (egregious working conditions and practices) is now happening as well.

 

And when the Chinese have finally had enough and overthrow their tyrannical government and enforce some form of labor laws, the corporations will just move elsewhere again.

 

What should be done, is labor laws + extreme levels of taxation for moving your business overseas. To the extent that moving overseas becomes more expensive as a proposition, than simply treating your workforce right.

 

Nevermind that A LOT of this could be avoided by simply overturning the idea of Shareholder Primacy, and stating that shareholders are only guaranteed all profits from a corporation up until the point their original investment has been turned. Then maybe dial it back to 25%. Allow the corporation to decide how it wants to spend its profits, rather than jackass shareholders who actually have little to now knowledge about the company.

 

A global economy can only ever be based on exploitation. I'd prefer we actually try to create smaller, self sufficient economies.

[Brooksie359]

9 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

During my high school years, my Dad had me working a large flooring job at a major clothing store. As per usual with commercial jobs, this was done at night, about 8:00 in the evening to 4:00 in the morning. I still had school during the day too.

 

It was only for two weeks, but that was a lovely time.

 

Idk if this law is a state law but in my state you are not allowed to work past like 7:30 or something on a school night until you turn a certain age. 

[spartaman64]

5 minutes ago, wANKER said:

No he wasn't. 

He was simply demonstrating that depending on which dictionary you go to, you get a different interpretation of the word. Which, can then be applied to certain contexts and situation to suit the agenda. 

 

 

he seems to suggested that i dug into obscure dictionaries for a definition that fits my narrative. i did not its literally on the front page of google

6 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

Yes, and just because Google says that's the definition, doesn't mean it's 100% correct. 

 

Like I've also been saying, it depends on the context of the situation.

We can argue all day (and I'm perfectly happy to, but it's probably not going to lead anywhere) about the dictionary definition of words, but I think if The Guardian thought they could have got away with using the word 'forced' in their headline, they bloody well would have!

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/456859-amazon-probing-child-labor-allegations-against-foxconn-in-china

guess i should have used this source then brb changing my post

[yolosnail]

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

he seems to suggested that i dug into obscure dictionaries for a definition that fits my narrative. i did not its literally on the front page of google

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/456859-amazon-probing-child-labor-allegations-against-foxconn-in-china

guess i should have used this source then brb changing my post

Because as we all know, if a source doesn't fit your agenda, just find a different one that does!

[wANKER]

https://www.ilo.org/global/topics/forced-labour/news/WCMS_237569/lang--en/index.htm

 

Right I'm out on this one, enjoyed the debate though 

 

[spartaman64]

8 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

Because as we all know, if a source doesn't fit your agenda, just find a different one that does!

the guardian article isnt an opinion piece they never gave their thoughts on the situation but if you look at any opinion piece on it you see the word forced everywhere

https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798416/amazon-foxconn-china-labor-laws-teenager-work-overtime-echo-kindle-investigation

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/technology/foxconn-said-to-use-forced-student-labor-to-make-iphones.html

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/456859-amazon-probing-child-labor-allegations-against-foxconn-in-china

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-08-09/foxconn-factory-china-making-amazon-gear-misused-temp-workers-and-teenage-interns

https://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-x-supplier-foxconn-under-fire-over-student-labor/

https://www.ft.com/content/7cb56786-cda1-11e7-b781-794ce08b24dc

http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/report/143

https://gizmodo.com/teen-students-forced-to-work-overtime-building-amazon-e-1837101059

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-foxconn-labour/apple-says-illegal-student-labor-discovered-at-iphone-x-plant-idUSKBN1DM1LA

https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2019/08/foxconn-forced-interns-to-work-overtime-on-amazon-devices/

my point is using the word forced in this context seems to be pretty widely accepted so i stick by using forced in my title

and doing additional research is being biased? imagine a scientist being told they have to go by the results of their first experiment and if they do additional experiments to increase the sample size they are being biased

[Tristerin]

56 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Then stop telling people if they truly cared they would "vote with their wallet".

 

 

 

 

Ive only engaged people who engaged me after a no quote post - once again here you go telling me how to participate.  You are some sort of special.

[Tristerin]

59 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

So essentially what you're saying is "If someone else suffers to make me happier, i don't care"

And if you say that, then I don't necessarily disagree

This is true in this case.  I haven't made it appear flowery either in its delivery - Ive been pretty clear how I feel.

 

But that statement isn't accurate in all things, but is in this (wanted to make that clear) - because this is life for them - I was emancipated at 15 after living in foster care - Ive seen worse than working 12 hours or OT at 17.  Plenty worse.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Tristerin said:

Ive only engaged people who engaged me after a no quote post - once again here you go telling me how to participate.  You are some sort of special.

I am discussing your contribution to the thread,  You made those claims, I am simply pointing out that they are not easily achieved and don't readily lead to any change or consequence for the company.    You were the one claiming other people are pretending.  Your exact words were:

 

Quote

I get so tired of people pretending to give a shit.

 

So now you are upset because someone has called you out on such accusations toward others, and you have the hypocrisy to try and make it about me telling you how to participate.  If you don't like your opinions being questioned and discussed then don't post. 

[Tristerin]

9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I am discussing your contribution to the thread,  You made those claims, I am simply pointing out that they are not easily achieved and don't readily lead to any change or consequence for the company.    You were the one claiming other people are pretending.  Your exact words were:

 

 

So now you are upset because someone has called you out on such accusations toward others, and you have the hypocrisy to try and make it about me telling you how to participate.  If you don't like your opinions being questioned and discussed then don't post. 

Ahhh discussions go both ways - your literal response was to not engage in this discussion with my opinion.  Nice try

 

 

 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Tristerin said:

Ahhh discussions go both ways - your literal response was to not engage in this discussion with my opinion.  Nice try

 

 

 

??? 

 

Please tell me how responding to your exact post is not engaging in the discussion?  you were the one you tried to insinuate I was telling you how to participate.  It seems being shown that's how you entered the thread was too much. 

[Tristerin]

Just now, mr moose said:

??? 

 

Please tell me how responding to your exact post is not engaging in the discussion?  you were the one you tried to insinuate I was telling you how to participate.  It seems being shown that's how you entered the thread was too much. 

 

your literal response was to not engage in this discussion with my opinion.

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Then stop telling people if they truly cared they would "vote with their wallet".

 

 

 

 

 

[Tristerin]

@mr moose and lets not forget, I didn't engage anyone - I dropped off an opinion.  You didn't quote that.  You started up in the middle of a discussion I was having with @Sauron - that was a discussion in comparison.  This isn't.  its all documented in this thread.

[mr moose]

Just now, Tristerin said:

 

your literal response was to not engage in this discussion with my opinion.

 

Because you are telling people their care is all pretending and that if they truly did care they would act out on your criteria.   Apart from the fact your criteria is demonstrably flawed in changing anything about the situation, you are telling people what they should do.  How about you let people decide how much they care for themselves and stop the mental gymnastics to maintain a narrative that went nowhere.   It would be better than trying to flip the discussion around because you don't like where it went.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Tristerin said:

@mr moose and lets not forget, I didn't engage anyone - I dropped off an opinion.  You didn't quote that.  You started up in the middle of a discussion I was having with @Sauron - that was a discussion in comparison.  This isn't.  its all documented in this thread.

No shit,  You made a claim, I contested it's value and then you got shitty and accused me of doing what you did right at the start. 

It is well documented.

[ARikozuM]

1 hour ago, yolosnail said:

But like I've said time and time again, it's still a choice.

Sure, it's a shitty choice, but a choice nonetheless.

Therefore Foxconn did not force them to work the overtime

Getting roadblocked in life is not a choice. It's inhumane to say you can either work overtime illegally or not move up the social ladder <ever>. 

[Tristerin]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Because you are telling people their care is all pretending and that if they truly did care they would act out on your criteria.   Apart from the fact your criteria is demonstrably flawed in changing anything about the situation, you are telling people what they should do.  How about you let people decide how much they care for themselves and stop the mental gymnastics to maintain a narrative that went nowhere.   It would be better than trying to flip the discussion around because you don't like where it went.

If the truth hurts its not my problem.  Im not going to change my value of the word "care" for when I "care" for something to cover any emotion in the body.  When I care for something I care for it, not pretend I care.  I don't have a 1 to 10 care'ing scale.  I either do or don't. 

 

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

No shit,  You made a claim, I contested it's value and then you got shitty and accused me of doing what you did right at the start. 

It is well documented.

I got shitty huh - guess you didn't read my response to your engagement its sooooo shitty lol.  I mean read it again bro its so terribads.  You were only quick to just reiterate what you said in the first place as if that's an end all be all.

 

EDIT: btw actually care came later - I said people pretending to give a shit in my opinion piece

 

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

If everyone bought used the economy would collapse in a spectacular fashion making 2008 looking like you lost a few coins through a hole in your pocket.

 

 

I didn't say everyone should, that is about as likely as getting people to stop buying every new iPhone.

[mr moose]

10 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

If the truth hurts its not my problem.  Im not going to change my value of the word "care" for when I "care" for something to cover any emotion in the body.  When I care for something I care for it, not pretend I care.  I don't have a 1 to 10 care'ing scale.  I either do or don't. 

 

I got shitty huh - guess you didn't read my response to your engagement its sooooo shitty lol.  I mean read it again bro its so terribads.  You were only quick to just reiterate what you said in the first place as if that's an end all be all.

 

EDIT: btw actually care came later - I said people pretending to give a shit in my opinion piece

 

 

What truth?  that your opinions are contestable and now you don't want to discuss the topic anymore,  instead you want to discuss how I post.

[Tristerin]

Just now, mr moose said:

 

What truth?  that your opinions are contestable and now you don't want to discuss the topic anymore,  instead you want to discuss how I post.

No, the truth (and it cuts deep to hear sometimes for those in denial) is that you don't actually give a shit if you are unwilling to actually do the things that can affect what you espouse you give a shit about.  Keep saying you do - it doesn't change that you don't.