A Mac as a work machine?

[SenKa]

35 minutes ago, Princess Twilight Sparkle said:

Late last year I bought a manufacturer refurbished 2012 MBP and so far it’s been great for productivity, both casual and light professional.

I feel bad for you if its a 15". 13" though? Damned good device.

 

35 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I personally know video editors who transitioned to using a hackintosh because the mac pro is a joke at this point, and it has been for over 3 years.

I believe it. Though, they could have saved the hassle and bought an iMac Pro. Unless this was before the iMac Pro launch.

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

I believe it. Though, they could have saved the hassle and bought an iMac Pro. Unless this was before the iMac Pro launch.

It was before, and either way it was much, much cheaper to get a hackintosh - not to mention they needed multiple graphics cards, which I don't think are available on an iMac Pro unless you spend another few hundred bucks on an external box.

[GoodBytes]

12 minutes ago, Sauron said:

While this is technically true, I found it to be a clunky nightmare. Vim is available natively for windows, so that's not really an issue - but other things he mentioned and the general usage paradigm of the system are not easily reproducible with WSL, which doesn't actually behave as if it were a full linux system in many circumstances and has limited interaction with windows.

 

Yes, you can run nginx and similar services - but that's about it; it acts more like a compatibility layer than a real linux system. Also, as far as I know, you can't run anything graphical without a separate Xorg service running, which is another can of worms onto itself. In my experience, Windows is at its best when you barely have to interact with it and your IDE takes care of what you might want to do with separate tools if you were on Linux or MacOS.

Why do you need a graphical interface? You run Chrome/Firefox and dev tools under Windows. you run the server back-end under WSL.

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Why do you need a graphical interface? You run Chrome/Firefox and dev tools under Windows. you run the server back-end under WSL.

Sure, it's just that you can't necessarily run "everything you want".

[wasab]

41 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

Building a tower identical to the spec of an iMac Pro (including the monitor. Since the iMac obviously comes with one)

 

The iMac was almost the same price to an identical tower. And LTT even gave them the PC a benefit by choosing a cheap case, while the iMacs form factor certainly isn't.

 

And no, the Mac Mini does not include a screen. What does that matter?

 

The Mac Pro is an old device, the refresh is coming soon. As for now, its not worth talking about as nobody is buying it. Anybody who wants a workstation mac is buying the iMac pro.

Dude, that thing is still 4-5k USD. You can totally get a Samsung 4k  oled TV, build a pc, with changes left over. 

 

44 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

we're not talking about the mac mini or mac pro. 

 

so your argument is that you are going to buy a pc for $5000 without a keyboard, mouse or display because it will perform better than an iMac? but oyu can't use it like that lmao. 

I got a keyboard and mice and I do include them when I don't have one. It's still cheaper and better performance. You just cant argue against that. You can't stuff powerful hardware inside Mac and you can't get decently performance comparable Mac at every price range. Period. 

[SenKa]

17 minutes ago, wasab said:

Dude, that thing is still 4-5k USD. You can totally get a Samsung 4k  oled TV, build a pc, with changes left over. 

But that wont have the color accuracy of Apples panels (made by LG)...

 

TV's dont have good color accuracy, theyre made to be overly vivid.

 

15 minutes ago, wasab said:

I got a keyboard and mice and I do include them when I don't have one. It's still cheaper and better performance. You just cant argue against that. You can't stuff powerful hardware inside Mac and you can't get decently performance comparable Mac at every price range. Period. 

Clearly you disregarded LTT's iMac Pro video, where specing out an identical machine was roughly the same price. And my reference to that video. And like 3 other peoples reference to that video.

 

Their laptops have a price premium, but its not as severe as it once was.

[Benjeh]

Not sure how Mac OS is any better than windows in typing out code or running vitural servers. I know a bloke who set up a web and graphic design agency a few years back and most his employees use windows pcs the very few use macs as its all down to preference, the old days of if you're a designer you need a mac are gone, old boys running studios will make you run Mac because its all they know.

 

Having used both I can't stand my macbook, its been shelved for the last 3 years and i don't miss anything about it.

[Princess Twilight Sparkle]

53 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

I feel bad for you if its a 15". 13" though? Damned good device.

 

 

13” Mid 2012!

 

I don’t remember what compelled me to buy the 2012, think it was hearing that even this far back it was super reliable. I loved all the I/O it comes with too, one reason why I didn’t just buy one from this or last year.

 

Nonetheless it’s great. It’s so useful to me that I’ve put away my gigantic CyberPower gaming laptop and just use the MBP when doing things unrelated to gaming.

[SenKa]

5 minutes ago, Princess Twilight Sparkle said:

 

13” Mid 2012!

 

I don’t remember what compelled me to buy the 2012, think it was hearing that even this far back it was super reliable. I loved all the I/O it comes with too, one reason why I didn’t just buy one from this or last year.

 

Nonetheless it’s great. It’s so useful to me that I’ve put away my gigantic CyberPower gaming laptop and just use the MBP when doing things unrelated to gaming.

The 15" is not reliable (GPU issues), but the 13" is a damned solid device. Nice purchase

[Drak3]

I also fell that the 2017+ 15" MacBook Pro makes for a pretty good gaming laptop as well. For the cost, performance isn't as good as competitors but the battery life is exceptionally better.

 

And if it weren't for the lack of a GPU, I'd say that the new Mac Mini might be good for light gaming as well.

[SenKa]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

I also fell that the 2017+ 15" MacBook Pro makes for a pretty good gaming laptop as well. For the cost, performance isn't as good as competitors but the battery life is exceptionally better.

 

And if it weren't for the lack of a GPU, I'd say that the new Mac Mini might be good for light gaming as well.

Solved by EGPU's. (I intend on getting a 2017 or newer MBP 13" and hooking it up to an EGPU dock+TB3 SSD+External HDD for gaming when I want to do so.)

 

Yes, EGPU's have their issues but as somebody who plays either single player storymode games or E-Sports titles, the GPU wont be leveraged much anyways. RX580 will be my card of choice.

[Drak3]

13 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

Solved by EGPU's. (I intend on getting a 2017 or newer MBP 13" and hooking it up to an EGPU dock+TB3 SSD+External HDD for gaming when I want to do so.)

 

Yes, EGPU's have their issues but as somebody who plays either single player storymode games or E-Sports titles, the GPU wont be leveraged much anyways. RX580 will be my card of choice.

The issue with eGPU on desktop is the size required. It's easier to justify something the size of an ITX build for a laptop, but most enclosures dwarf the mini. I mean, you can work it into aesthetics, but it's not ideal to most people.

[DildorTheDecent]

2 hours ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

But that wont have the color accuracy of Apples panels (made by LG)...

TV's dont have good color accuracy, theyre made to be overly vivid.

 

2 hours ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

Clearly you disregarded LTT's iMac Pro video, where specing out an identical machine was roughly the same price. And my reference to that video. And like 3 other peoples reference to that video.

Their laptops have a price premium, but its not as severe as it once was.

You're being baited, just stop replying.

 

They're deploying the classic "Mac is terrible value" argument. Commonly deployed by 13 year olds (or anything not an adult anyway).

[SnowyMus]

5 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

when you consider that Windows 10 home is €145, and that stuff like MS Office also costs a lot of money, i don't think you can build a pc for $1100 that's a lot faster than a Mac Mini. considering the OS on a Mac is free, and software like Pages, Numbers, Keynote and iMovie are all free. 

LibreOffice is free. Google Docs is free. You don't have to use Microsoft Office as an office suite, and, to be honest, it sucks. As for an iMovie alternative, if you just want a basic video editor, there are programs like Shotcut and Kdenlive. iMovie isn't meant to be something used for professional work, as Apple has Final Cut Pro X ($299.99) for that.

 

As for Windows, I don't personally use it (I use Linux), so I wouldn't be spending the $139 MSRP on it. But even if you did factor that in, it's still going to be much cheaper that $1100 (around $750 according to PCPartPicker, or about $800 after taxes), at least in the United States.

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8500 3 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($235.90 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: MSI - Z370-A PRO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($109.99 @ B&H) 
Memory: Team - Vulcan 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($59.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 250 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($77.99 @ B&H) 
Case: NZXT - H500 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($69.99 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic - 520 W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($54.99 @ Newegg) 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home Full - USB 32/64-bit  ($139.00) 
Total: $747.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-02-24 17:37 EST-0500

 

This gives you enough room for a mid-ranged discrete GPU, a better CPU, or even more RAM. For example, if you get an RX 580, the price will be around $1000, and it will be able to play games. You'll still have enough room to double the RAM, too.

 

But I think you missed the original point I was making. My point was that if all you cared about was performance, you wouldn't even be looking for a prebuilt, and this was in response to someone else. Not everyone needs the fastest hardware around, otherwise people wouldn't buy prebuilts, consoles, or budget smartphones.

 

The Mac Mini is probably fast enough to do what most people want, and it has features that the PC I linked does not have. After all, the PC I linked doesn't have any Thunderbolt ports, and you can't legally install macOS on it. It also doesn't come already built and set up. Also, it's much larger than a Mac Mini.

 

But don't think that the performance, alone, is worth $1100. If you're looking for a Mac, you're probably looking for something other than just the raw performance.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

2 minutes ago, Kavawuvi said:

LibreOffice is free. Google Docs is free. You don't have to use Microsoft Office as an office suite, and, to be honest, it sucks. As for an iMovie alternative, if you just want a basic video editor, there are programs like Shotcut and Kdenlive. iMovie isn't meant to be something used for professional work, as Apple has Final Cut Pro X ($299.99) for that.

while i will give you the victory of building a pc for less than a Mac Mini, you simply cannot compare libreoffice or google docs to Pages, Numbers and Keynote. you can't compare Kdenlive to iMovie either. 

[SenKa]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

The issue with eGPU on desktop is the size required. It's easier to justify something the size of an ITX build for a laptop, but most enclosures dwarf the mini. I mean, you can work it into aesthetics, but it's not ideal to most people.

My dream setup would be something like Linus' "Cleanest setup" video, personally. Hidden EGPU, but I would add an external SSD and HDD. Come to think of it, are there any EGPU docks with hard drive enclosures?...

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

My dream setup would be something like Linus' "Cleanest setup" video, personally. Hidden EGPU, but I would add an external SSD and HDD. Come to think of it, are there any EGPU docks with hard drive enclosures?...

HP Omen Accelerator has one SATA bay and USB ports.

 

8 minutes ago, Kavawuvi said:

Microsoft Office as an office suite, and, to be honest, it sucks.

Both alternatives you listed are worse.

[SenKa]

Just now, Drak3 said:

HP Omen Accelerator has one SATA bay and USB ports.

 

Both alternatives you listed are worse.

Noted. Would like 2 SATA bays, but I know that is one hell of a niche target.

 

And yes. MS Office is needed for many people, and you listed 2 worse alternatives. 

[SnowyMus]

16 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

while i will give you the victory of building a pc for less than a Mac Mini, you simply cannot compare libreoffice or google docs to Pages, Numbers and Keynote. you can't compare Kdenlive to iMovie either. 

That was a fast response. Did you read the rest of what I said?

 

Also, as someone who used Pages and Numbers to get through his first two years of college and is using LibreOffice on his Linux PC, I would say you can compare them. But yeah, Pages and Numbers are a lot better and way more stable than LibreOffice.

 

10 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Both alternatives you listed are worse.

True. Going the free route isn't going to give you a rose garden a lot of the time.

 

9 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

And yes. MS Office is needed for many people, and you listed 2 worse alternatives. 

But if Microsoft Office is needed for many people and you needed Microsoft Office on a Mac, wouldn't you have to pay for that?

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

10 minutes ago, Kavawuvi said:

But if Microsoft Office is needed for many people and you needed Microsoft Office on a Mac, wouldn't you have to pay for that?

yup you do. 

 

but the macOS version of MS Office is awful, and i've sworn to never use it again because word didn't save a document even after clicking save like 10 times when it started acting weird, it required me to force quit it, and even though i clicked save 10+ times it didn't save ... 2 hours of work lost. 

[Drak3]

14 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

Noted. Would like 2 SATA bays, but I know that is one hell of a niche target.

Well, thankfully the Mac Mini and MBPs have twin TB controllers so at worse, extra cable to a TB HDD enclosure.

 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

13 minutes ago, Kavawuvi said:

That was a fast response. Did you read the rest of what I said?

yes i did  

 

i read quickly. 

 

but you are correct. if you are looking for a Mac you are either trying to get away from Windows or need it for a specific app or usecase that doesn't run on / isn't supported by Windows. there is no other reason. 

[Drak3]

Just now, firelighter487 said:

there is no other reason.

Neither of those scenarios are true for me.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Neither of those scenarios are true for me.

what reason do you have then? 

[SnowyMus]

3 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

yup you do. 

 

but the macOS version of MS Office is awful, and i've sworn to never use it again because word didn't save a document even after clicking save like 10 times when it started acting weird, it required me to force quit it, and even though i clicked save 10+ times it didn't save ... 2 hours of work lost. 

And that's really bad.

 

I couldn't use it for a lot of things in Microsoft Office on macOS because a lot of basic functionality resulted in freezing. For example, I tried to use the equation editor to write logic symbols, and I'd have to save and close the document every time I used that editor. If I didn't, it would freeze and lock up, requiring me to take a small visit to the Force Quit menu (eventually I learned that you could invoke shift-option-command-escape to kill the frontmost application).

 

1 minute ago, firelighter487 said:

yes i did  

 

i read quickly. 

 

but you are correct. if you are looking for a Mac you are either trying to get away from Windows or need it for a specific app or usecase that doesn't run on / isn't supported by Windows. there is no other reason. 

Oh. Cool!