Microsoft concedes Cortana is an 'also-ran', separates it from Windows search in upcoming update

[Delicieuxz]

 

 

New Windows 10 Insider Preview Build Separates Cortana from Search

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As has long been rumored, Microsoft is taking steps to extricate its digital personal assistant from Windows 10’s core search functionality. And a new Windows 10 Insider Preview build, just released today, provides our first peek at this separation.

 

“Going forward, we’ll be decoupling Search and Cortana in the taskbar,” Microsoft’s Dona Sarkar explains. “This will enable each experience to innovate independently to best serve their target audiences and use cases.”

 

In case anyone is interested in me reading between the lines here, there’s long been tension between the Windows team and Cortana, which is developed separately in a different part of the company. That makes some sense, since Cortana capabilities can and should pop up in many places throughout the Microsoft ecosystem. But it has also led to issues between the two teams, which have moved forward in different directions and at different times.

 

It’s Official: Satya Nadella Confirms Cortana Defeat

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In a stunning bit of transparency, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella confirmed that Cortana will never be competitive with Amazon Alexa or Google Assistant. So it will instead be recast as a skill for those more popular assistants, as has long been rumored.

 

“Would it be better off, for example, to make Cortana a valuable skill that someone who is using Alexa can call? Or should we try to compete with Alexa? We, quite frankly, decided that we would do the former,” Mr. Nadella reportedly said at a media day at Microsoft’s Redmond campus to which Thurrott.com was not invited. “Because Cortana needs to be that skill for anyone who is a Microsoft Office 365 subscriber.”

 

Microsoft announced that it would integrate Cortana with Amazon Alexa, and it finally enabled the first version of that integration last year. But Nadella confirmed that he wants to work with Google Assistant as well.

 

...

 

According to reports, Nadella said that Microsoft saw what was happening in the smart speaker market and realized that it would always be an also-ran, just as it was in smartphones. But this time, the software giant felt that it could still be a major player, just behind the scenes.

 

So, the artificial integration of Cortana with Windows search that prevented Cortana from being fully turned off in most editions of Windows 10 has finally been undone.

 

I wonder how removing Cortana from Search and possibly having the option to remove it completely from Home and Pro editions of Windows 10 will impact data-harvesting from Windows searches. I also wonder if the separation of Cortana from Windows search will coincide with a return of the option to not receive any online search results for Home and Pro editions of Windows 10.

 

 

Be aware, though, that using Amazon or Google's personal assistants won't keep Microsoft from getting your data, because all the major tech companies are in partnership to share the data they harvest from their respective products and services with each other.

 

Data Transfer Project

[TempestCatto]

In the one Windows 10 install I have (which is LTSB) I don't have the "search" or "Cortana" enabled. So what does this mean for people like me who think it's a waste of taskbar space? That it will take a few more clicks to turn them off? Seriously, people who leave the whole search bar on their taskbar should be forced to use low end PC's. Like, how does that not fucking bother you that it's just there, taking up valuable, USABLE real-estate?? I would think at least, Cortana being separate from "search" would allow it to be used to interact more with the OS and programs/apps.

[Delicieuxz]

3 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

In the one Windows 10 install I have (which is LTSB) I don't have the "search" or "Cortana" enabled. So what does this mean for people like me who think it's a waste of taskbar space? That it will take a few more clicks to turn them off? Seriously, people who leave the whole search bar on their taskbar should be forced to use low end PC's. Like, how does that not fucking bother you that it's just there, taking up valuable, USABLE real-estate?? I would think at least, Cortana being separate from "search" would allow it to be used to interact more with the OS and programs/apps.

LTSB doesn't have Cortana to begin with. That's one of the things that makes LTSB / LTSC the best version of Windows 10.

 

Windows search could always be hidden from the taskbar and I don't think this new separation of search and Cortana is going to impact that in any way. I hope that the separation of search and Cortana will mean that online results and Windows Store results won't be included in search queries.

[GoodBytes]

It actually means absolutely nothing. I have them separate since the past couple of weeks, as a Windows 10 Insider.

Search still has web search, everything works the same. You just have a separate panel for Cortana.. so if you don't use Notification sync between your phone and PC, and you don't have Cortana voice, then it is same for you. Considering that Cortana was disabled by default in Windows 10 already, I am sure no one will notice a thing, beside the Cortana / Search button (or search bar, depending on how you set it) dual on the task bar (which you can individually show/hide from the task bar right-click menu)

 

[TempestCatto]

Just now, Delicieuxz said:

LTSB doesn't have Cortana to begin with. That's one of the things that makes LTSB / LTSC the best version of Windows 10.

 

Windows search could always be hidden from the taskbar and I don't think this new separation of search and Cortana is going to impact that in any way.

I know it could always be hidden, hence me saying I hide it.

When I first installed LTSB, I remember being able to toggle Cortana off. So idk.

[maartendc]

The list of "also-ran" products from Microsoft is getting quite long:

 

- Cortana

- Windows Phone

- The Zune music player

- Bing Search

- Bing Maps

- Microsoft Teams (Slack competitor)

- Edge Browser

- ... I'm probably forgetting a few.

 

Really the only things Microsoft is successful at is still Windows and Office. And maybe the Surface product line and the Xbox?

[GoodBytes]

12 minutes ago, maartendc said:

The list of "also-ran" products from Microsoft is getting quite long:

 

- Cortana

- Windows Phone

- The Zune music player

- Bing Search

- Bing Maps

- Microsoft Teams (Slack competitor)

- Edge Browser

- ... I'm probably forgetting a few.

 

Really the only things Microsoft is successful at is still Windows and Office. And maybe the Surface product line and the Xbox?

Microsoft Teams is widely used and updated often.

At work we migrated to it.

 

A termination of service of Skype for Business (aka: Lync) has been set to be April of this year. MS Teams will replace it for companies using Skype for Business.

[maartendc]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

Microsoft Teams is widely used and updated often.

At work we migrated to it.

A termination of service of Skype for Business (aka: Lync) has been set to be April of this year. MS Teams will replace it (feature parity has been reached)

Yeah, my office IT dept decided to force everyone over to Teams, from Slack, just because it is part of office 365 now.

 

Everyone hates it. Everyone liked Slack better. I deem it a failure.

 

By that metric, Edge is also a success, because it comes standard with Windows 10.

[Crunchy Dragon]

1 hour ago, TempestCatto said:

Like, how does that not fucking bother you that it's just there, taking up valuable, USABLE real-estate??

Because I have a 27" panel, and my taskbar is super empty anyway, screen estate aside.

[GoodBytes]

17 minutes ago, maartendc said:

Yeah, my office IT dept decided to force everyone over to Teams, from Slack, just because it is part of office 365 now.

Slack pricing model is only good for small companies and startups.

MS Teams pricing model is best suited for medium to enterprise size companies.

I don't know why Slack is having trouble with this.

 

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Everyone hates it. Everyone liked Slack better. I deem it a failure.

Where I used to work we used Slack. The company I work for currently, (much larger) uses MS Teams due to the high cost of Slack. I can do everything I could do with Slack with MS Teams, based on my experience. We have no issues with it. People at the office seem to like it. I am fine with it.

I think you guys are just not used to it.

 

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By that metric, Edge is also a success, because it comes standard with Windows 10.

Actually no it isn't. Market share of it is extremely low. Companies still stuck with IE11 for their internal, never updated, sites. Some companies even remove Edge icons from task bar and start menu, and pin Firefox or Chrome with IE11 next to it.

 

Microsoft is having trouble playing catch up with Edge engine to the web standard and page rendering and at the same time work on the front end. I think the task they took, while good on paper, was too big for them to handle. Now, they'll switch to use Chromium engine (so, Chrome), and allow them to focus more on the front end. We will see what will happen. But as of today, Edge is really not good. No one uses it. Companies put effort to remove it (well the shortcuts to it) to reduce support call and willing to go with IE11 over Edge... ouch, if you ask me. Glad they decided to stop what they were doing, and decide to go with a proper, polished for many years, open source, engine. We will see when that will be released. My guess, late this year.

 

[porina]

Is Teams able to host external facing conference calls then? I think that was a big limiting factor which means S4B is still the primary tool where I work. Maybe I'm not deep enough into Teams but is it even possible to have multiple things open at once? 

 

Only good thing about Teams is that I will be involved with certification testing for it, and in process of getting a load of new hardware to play with.

[WereCat]

I dont use either. I disabled them years ago right after I installed W10.

I just type right away when I open the Start menu like on W7.

[Jito463]

I've already killed Cortana as much as possible in 10, maybe this will allow me to finally remove it completely.

[CharminUltraStrong]

7 minutes ago, maartendc said:

Yeah, my office IT dept decided to force everyone over to Teams, from Slack, just because it is part of office 365 now.

 

Everyone hates it. Everyone liked Slack better. I deem it a failure.

 

By that metric, Edge is also a success, because it comes standard with Windows 10.

As someone who used/uses both MS Teams and Slack in a professional work environment like @GoodBytes, I beg to differ. Functionally they're the same, essentially. MS Teams is more professional than Slack, imo, with better tech support and runs a bit more powerful. Also, MS Teams servers don't slow down. I've had some Slack servers run bog slow and being an avid Disc user myself, I still prefer MS Teams.

[GoodBytes]

4 minutes ago, porina said:

Is Teams able to host external facing conference calls then? I think that was a big limiting factor which means S4B is still the primary tool where I work. Maybe I'm not deep enough into Teams but is it even possible to have multiple things open at once? 

 

Only good thing about Teams is that I will be involved with certification testing for it, and in process of getting a load of new hardware to play with.

I am not sure. But Microsoft said that they aim to have feature parity before Skype for Buisness is killed off.

Here is the User Voice page:

https://microsoftteams.uservoice.com/forums/555103-public

You can see what has been worked on, being worked on, and asked.

 

Please note that depending on the branch of Office 365 you are in, you may not have the latest release version of MS Teams. Something to check, I am not sure.

[jagdtigger]

11 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I've already killed Cortana as much as possible in 10, maybe this will allow me to finally remove it completely.

You could do it right now. Nuke it with a live linux.

[TempestCatto]

20 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Because I have a 27" panel, and my taskbar is super empty anyway, screen estate aside.

Bigger than mine, but I still think it's wasteful. I can understand why some people may not want to auto-hide the taskbar, but the search bar? Damn, you wild.

[ThreePinkApples]

58 minutes ago, maartendc said:

Yeah, my office IT dept decided to force everyone over to Teams, from Slack, just because it is part of office 365 now.

 

Everyone hates it. Everyone liked Slack better. I deem it a failure.

 

By that metric, Edge is also a success, because it comes standard with Windows 10.

From what I've seen Microsoft Teams is a serious competitor in the space, together with Slack and Webex Teams.
For enterprise sometimes what appears as the best user experience for some of the users, might be horrible for admins of really large organizations, since Microsoft Teams falls in with Office 365, I assume that it is much easier to manage it than Slack which is completely separate.
Also, it's quite possible that Microsoft has given higher-ups in your company insight into future plans to make them jump aboard, it's a common tactic. 

[Bananasplit_00]

so i guess people who live where cortana works wont have to always have her bugging you in their serach? not really sure how cortana works as it dosnt where i live

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, maartendc said:

The list of "also-ran" products from Microsoft is getting quite long:

 

- Cortana

- Windows Phone

- The Zune music player

- Bing Search

- Bing Maps

- Microsoft Teams (Slack competitor)

- Edge Browser

- ... I'm probably forgetting a few.

 

Really the only things Microsoft is successful at is still Windows and Office. And maybe the Surface product line and the Xbox?

Bing Search is actually quite popular in a lot of countries, especially after people dumped Google for various reasons. I still prefer DuckDuckGo as my daily driver for searching, but Bing really isn't a bad alternative.

[GoodBytes]

15 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

so i guess people who live where cortana works wont have to always have her bugging you in their serach? not really sure how cortana works as it dosnt where i live

It works like Siri or Google Assistance on your phone. If you don' call her, it doesn't do anything. Cortana was/is disabled by default in Windows 10.

[Arika]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

You could do it right now. Nuke it with a live linux.

Can you for once not turn another thread into Windows vs linux? 

[Salv8 (sam)]

i thank god this is going to happen.

cortana slowed down the search results a crap ton with it's bullshit, on slow HDDs it was nearly impassable to use it without disabling cortana via a registry or group policy edit

3 hours ago, TempestCatto said:

-snip-

damn, i should of installed LSTB instead of pro... oh well, when my computer craps itself i'll do just that...

[ZacoAttaco]

I think this is less about Microsoft and Cortana itself, but just that simple fact that digital assistant's are not as useful as they were sold to be. Never felt the need to use Cortana, rarely use Siri and the only way they get people to use the Assistant and Alexa is do have devices dedicated to that from of input. That's it. Good decision from Microsoft, give users more control on how they want to experience Windows 10.

[GoodBytes]

13 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

I think this is less about Microsoft and Cortana itself, but just that simple fact that digital assistant's are not as useful as they were sold to be. Never felt the need to use Cortana, rarely use Siri and the only way they get people to use the Assistant and Alexa is do have devices dedicated to that from of input. That's it. Good decision from Microsoft, give users more control on how they want to experience Windows 10.

The only time I use Cortana (and now, I believe all Voice assistance support this) is for SMS in the car.

When I get an SMS while driving,:

   Cortana will say: "You have received a text from <Name>. Would like me to read it or ignore it?"

   Me: "Read it"

   Cortana: "Yo yo what's up G-Bytes! How is it going?"

   Cortana: "Do you want to reply or are you done?"

   Me: "Reply"

   Me: ":sigh: him again.... I am driving!"

   Cortana: "Ok, I'll send: 'I am driving!' Do you want to add more, send it, or try again?"

   Me: "Send it"

   Cortana: <sound to say it was sent>

 

Silly joke aside, it does work nicely and is helpful. I never had to fight with it.

Personally, I highly recommend all to setup their Voice assistance of choice to do this.