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Athan Immortal

NVIDIA Controls AIB Launch and Driver Distribution - HardOCP

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7 hours ago, leadeater said:

Not a $100 role. And current ram prices effects Pascal just as much as it effects Turing, new doesn't mean the price must go up, performance increase doesn't mean the price must go up, you should never expect GPU prices to go up just because it's new, something must justify it and it must be over and above the last generation and current factors. Turing isn't in a vacuum, it's in the same environment as everything else is. Either Turing was a significant development cost increase over Pascal and Volta, unlikely, or Nvidia put the price up just to align it with current street prices so it looks less bad.

 

Not that I care about the price increase, I gave you the why people are complaining. Doesn't have to make sense to you that's just why, price tag went up so naturally people are going to complain. People will always find something to complain about, be it prices being much higher than MSRP or the MSRP increasing, or performance increase lower than expected, literally anything can get people complaining.

The die size is much larger. The 2080ti is something like 750mm2 while the 1080ti is around 450mm2. The price to manufacture these chips went up because they increased cuda cores while adding both rtx cores and tensor cores. 

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I don't really get the point of controlling the drivers. As soon as they send them out to a reviewer, they'll be up on a torrent or FTP somewhere within 24 hours to share with other reviewers.

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12 minutes ago, TigerHawk said:

I don't really get the point of controlling the drivers. As soon as they send them out to a reviewer, they'll be up on a torrent or FTP somewhere within 24 hours to share with other reviewers.

Nvidia could very easily (and should) place a signature in the driver -- this would allow Nvidia to determine who uploaded the driver and then ban that reviewer from future releases.


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11 hours ago, mr moose said:

If you are really worried about this then just wait till benchmarks from non approved reviewers come out.  Nvidia can't hide shit performance when they are selling their product to literally anyone who can walk into a shop and exchange cash for one.

 

Given they know this and every reviewer out there does too,  I don't think they are trying to curb reviews. Their NDA is no different from anyone else's so it's not likely some grand conspiracy. 

Exactly.

 

I am pretty certain this is due to the nature of the new tech.

Nvidia knows the new tech needs to be taken into consideration to reach the masses. Too many "i want moar FPS only!" - freaks out there.

I would imagine they just want to make sure the first reviews are done by people that really look at the whole picture and don't just test FPS and ignore all the added stuff.

 

Everyone can watch those boring/useless reviews a week later, so what is the matter with the conspiracy and tinfoil hattery again, seriously.

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39 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

Nvidia could very easily (and should) place a signature in the driver -- this would allow Nvidia to determine who uploaded the driver and then ban that reviewer from future releases.

yes they want accountability of leaks too

20 minutes ago, Rattenmann said:

Exactly.

 

I am pretty certain this is due to the nature of the new tech.

Nvidia knows the new tech needs to be taken into consideration to reach the masses. Too many "i want moar FPS only!" - freaks out there.

I would imagine they just want to make sure the first reviews are done by people that really look at the whole picture and don't just test FPS and ignore all the added stuff.

 

Everyone can watch those boring/useless reviews a week later, so what is the matter with the conspiracy and tinfoil hattery again, seriously.

exactly they want to show the performance of their new tech along with its normal performance

and accountability

seems like no one think accountability isnt anything more especially using wrong drivers and leaks

 

leaks can hurt purchases good or bad leaks

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21 minutes ago, Rattenmann said:

I would imagine they just want to make sure the first reviews are done by people that really look at the whole picture and don't just test FPS and ignore all the added stuff.

So what you're saying is that Nvidia wants reviewers who talk about what Nvidia is happy to talk about, rather than addressing what their audience cares about. I get it.

I bet AMD would also love reviewers talking about HBM and mining efficiency rather than comparing Vega's FPS to the GTX lineup :D

 

 

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People laughed at me when i said AMD must be happy with how Nvidia is handling things. 


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5 minutes ago, thedude4bides said:

Didn't comb through all pages to see if answered elsewhere so sorry if it was but... what is AIB?

it stands for add-in-board, as in the companies that manufacture the PCB and coolers. Nvidia and AMD develop and sell GPU dies to AIBs to sell cards, they will design a reference PCB but AIBs are allowed (mostly) to design new board designs.


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11 minutes ago, KendoSapion said:

People laughed at me when i said AMD must be happy with how Nvidia is handling things. 

so happy they cant compete lol

 

controlling review samples has and always will be by many larger companies

 

as long as they arent manipulating facts and fudging numbers like intel did back some time ago

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9 minutes ago, pas008 said:

so happy they cant compete lol

 

controlling review samples has and always will be by many larger companies

 

as long as they arent manipulating facts and fudging numbers like intel did back some time ago

*cough* 3.5GB Vram


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If this is true, GN won't sign it (they already said f-you to AMD before), they will probably somehow get the card(s), do a proper review and figure out what the NDA BS is all about.

 

Yes nvidia probably has the fastest card, but that's no reason to be an arse (again) and control too much. If it really is as good as they say, it should speak for itself which i doubt now...

 

The closer we get to launch, the less i like all this tbh.

Like, 8GB vram, wtf, NDA bs like this and it's all about RTX, like, that's nice, but first signs are that performance isn't great (just too taxing) and most games won't use it anyway.


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Just now, pas008 said:

point being?

card performed exactly right in its price point by far

You said they didnt manipulate the numbers. They have literally done just that.


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1 minute ago, samcool55 said:

If this is true, GN won't sign it (they already said f-you to AMD before), they will probably somehow get the card(s), do a proper review and figure out what the NDA BS is all about.

 

Yes nvidia probably has the fastest card, but that's no reason to be an arse (again) and control too much. If it really is as good as they say, it should speak for itself which i doubt now...

 

The closer we get to launch, the less i like all this tbh.

Like, 8GB vram, wtf, NDA bs like this and it's all about RTX, like, that's nice, but first signs are that performance isn't great (just too taxing) and most games won't use it anyway.

20% more cuda and faster memory its going to have the performance besides the new rt shit

 

and they are controlling their product reviews like intel, amd, apple, samsung, etc just not letting aibs do it

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1 minute ago, KendoSapion said:

You said they didnt manipulate the numbers. They have literally done just that.

cards did have 4gb of ram on chip

and we have no clue if that was marketing error on the rest and etc but they did pay

 

actually me twice

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Just now, pas008 said:

cards did have 4gb of ram on chip

and we have no clue if that was marketing error on the rest and etc but they did pay

 

actually me twice

So when they say the RTX will be 50% faster than the 1080 ti you believe them? Or have they manipulated then numbers by using extremely specific tests


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33 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

So what you're saying is that Nvidia wants reviewers who talk about what Nvidia is happy to talk about, rather than addressing what their audience cares about. I get it.

I bet AMD would also love reviewers talking about HBM and mining efficiency rather than comparing Vega's FPS to the GTX lineup :D

 

 

You can spin it like you want to. Does not change the issue at hand.

 

Nvidia is doing something new and wants people to show all the stuff and not just the trivial boring stuff.

As i said: You can watch the boring biased reviews a week later, i will be looking forward to full reviews that don't flat out ignore what the product actually is.

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1 minute ago, pas008 said:

point being?

card performed exactly right in its price point by far

Until you hit 3.5GB VRAM usage and it all goes to poop, which is perfectly possible with games of today.

There is no point in throwing GPU power at a VRAM problem.

 

And don't forget the whole GT1030 gddr5 vs ddr3 mess AND the fact a 1060 3GB doesn't have the same amount of cuda cores as a 1060 6GB.

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

20% more cuda and faster memory its going to have the performance besides the new rt shit

 

and they are controlling their product reviews like intel, amd, apple, samsung, etc just not letting aibs do it

Of course they are going to control it, but this is a step too far. I've never heard AMD, intel or even Nvidia themselves going so far with NDA's but for some reason even tho it all looks like they will have a superior product, they somehow want to control reviews even more? Like why? If it's a good product, there is no need to control so much and reviewers will give it the good reviews it deserves.


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Just now, KendoSapion said:

So when they say the RTX will be 50% faster than the 1080 ti you believe them? Or have they manipulated then numbers by using extremely specific tests

20 more cuda

faster memory

and added rt and tensor cores

yes I believe its faster by far

 

maxwell to pascal was 25% more cuda and faster memory roughly made 35% across the board

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4 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Until you hit 3.5GB VRAM usage and it all goes to poop, which is perfectly possible with games of today.

There is no point in throwing GPU power at a VRAM problem.

 

And don't forget the whole GT1030 gddr5 vs ddr3 mess AND the fact a 1060 3GB doesn't have the same amount of cuda cores as a 1060 6GB.

Of course they are going to control it, but this is a step too far. I've never heard AMD, intel or even Nvidia themselves going so far with NDA's but for some reason even tho it all looks like they will have a superior product, they somehow want to control reviews even more? Like why? If it's a good product, there is no need to control so much and reviewers will give it the good reviews it deserves.

you forget they been doing this for yrs now its a problem

970 was new thing  but to get that card to poop like you are saying means you are doing things that card cant handle in the first place

as 970 owner 5760x1080 res tell me why I would think I could play maxed out settings on 970sli

980 is same situation poops pretty much that same

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2 hours ago, Arika S said:

having read the article again, it doesn't make the insinuation that the reviewer has to publish what Nvidia tells them to and only able to use the specifial games and benchmarks where it has the biggest increase, it's just about who has access to the review samples and drivers and normal NDA.

 

If there was something telling them "we will moderate the content you publish before it's made public to remove anything negative about our product" then HardOCP would absolutely have said that, and if that is the case, then no self respecting reviewer or review site would sign the NDA and anyone that does is not likely going to be a respected reviewer currently anyway.

 

 

As a buyer, I always wait multiple weeks to months after a product release to make sure there are enough reviews saturating the market with a good mix of positive and negative things. Hell people have already pre-ordered it even without any reviews already. those people are idiots.

Rude D: . Maybe people who preordered are fine with the performance increase not being amazing or just like new tech or any host of reasons. 

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I'm not surprised they're attempting this, I am however, surprised that it might be working.

 

From what I've seen here's my (un)educated guess:

 

2080 = 1080ti It's a slight bump in price and a slight bump in performance so for all intents and purposes, without the ray tracing limited in ray tracing titles it's basically almost a rebadge. Think 290x to 390x it's technically a "different" product, node is refined yields permit slight better performance and such but for 1080ti owners who are smart (a.k.a. the ones that realize that by the time ray tracing justifies a completely new product the 3080 will be out so another year at the very least) they can just disregard.

 

2080ti It's basically the only new product and again this is probably the performance they were sitting on from Pascal because even "big" Pascal on the 1080ti/Titan whatever wasn't fully maxed. Sure the slight refinement of their process affords them slight better temps and power usage but given water or a really beefy cooler you could have probably achieved this over a year ago with Nvidia would have released a truly maxed Pascal that was above the 1080ti level.

 

So basically Nvidia has very little to differentiate or justify any product outside of the 2080ti which they went ahead and priced 400 fucking bucks above the 2080 because of course they did, who's gonna compete at that level?
 

They know they're sitting on 2 products that are basically the same as the current ones (2080 = 1080ti and 2070 = 1080) and one that's well, basically priced as ridiculous as they feel they can get away with so obviously they don't want honest, accurate reviewers (which are a fucking rarity tbh) to come out and say "If you're rich, you don't watch reviews you already preordered the 2080ti and if you're a reasonable customer, just get a fucking 1080ti and it will be within 3 to 5% on every possible title you can imagine with the exception of the 2 games that might come out with Ray Tracing and even then it's going to tank your performance so who fucking cares?"


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29 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

If this is true, GN won't sign it (they already said f-you to AMD before), they will probably somehow get the card(s), do a proper review and figure out what the NDA BS is all about.

I think they have already signed it. AFAIK this is and has always been about that short NDA document that got leaked some time ago. GN specifically did a video where they talked to their lawyer about it and they were mostly fine with that NDA.

 

Hardocp on the other hand was always strongly against this NDA so no wonder that when they reached to NVIDIA to be included in the RTX release they got told that first they need to sign that NDA. Since they did a poll and their users don't want them to sign, they will not be included.

 

I think it's safe to assume that GN and LTT will be a part of the release since both outlets spoke about that NDA and they were mostly fine with it.


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