Surface Go - A new low cost Surface Pro - Starts at only 399$

[79wjd]

14 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Say no to 4GB of RAM. Browsers alone will chew on that easily not to mention Windows 10 background tasks 

I'd say 4gb is fine if it's a secondary device or you're a very light user -- I had a SP3 with an i3-4030y and 4gb of RAM and the CPU was a far bigger issue -- with Windows Update pinning the CPU at 100%, RAM was never really a problem. It wasn't a primary device though but rather something that pretty much was only ever running One Note and a few chrome tabs. 

[GoodBytes]

25 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Is that USD? If it is...eh still a large sum for me to swallow for a 4GB (which I would consider barely usable) machine with a Pentium. Even if it would be great for the occasional power point presentations I do.

Yes, USD. Yes, Canadian dollar is worth less than Canadian Tire money.

 

[ZacoAttaco]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Free upgrade to Windows 10 Pro. So, in a way, you can see that the device comes with Windows 10 Pro instead of Home.

Thanks for the info, so if owned one I would just upgrade to pro, I only worry about a performance degradation (don't think 4GB RAM is enough these days) if that were the case but good on Microsoft for giving their consumers the choice, I'm sure some basic users would been fine with Windows 10 S. I'd prefer more flexibility and more options personally.

[GoodBytes]

14 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

Thanks for the info, so if owned one I would just upgrade to pro

That is what is said.. we will see once the device is officially released.

 

Quote

I only worry about a performance degradation (don't think 4GB RAM is enough these days) if that were the case but good on Microsoft for giving their consumers the choice, I'm sure some basic users would been fine with Windows 10 S. I'd prefer more flexibility and more options personally.

It really depends on you. Chrome and even Firefox consumes a lot of RAM, Edge has the ability to move tabs from RAM to storage on the fly, allowing  the web browser to drop significantly to a few MB when the web browser is minimized, despite having multiple tabs open. Also, it depends on you. if you use tabs and don't use bookmarks and so you have 200 tabs open, well... of course 4GB is not enough, however if you stick to a very few tabs, than you should be OK.

 

Similarly for programs. At 4GB, you definitely would want to do your best to have near 0 background apps. Like have Windows Defender and OneDrive, and that is it... maybe a 1-2 more things that you really really need, but, well, you get it. But I think the Pentium CPU will be bottleneck for demanding software more than your limited amount of RAM. I mean the Pentium Gold is between a Atom and a Core i3 Y series. So, it is pretty slow. It doesn't help that doesn't have Turbo Boost, and the clock isn't high.  This is the type of system you want to limit your multi-tasking as well, and expect to be some what patient on demanding tasks, including Windows Update. Basically, you have the RAM speed, SSD (if we ignore the eMMC 64GB model) and GPU all on your side to have a great experience on playing videos, movies, starting up programs, smooth program animations, and such, but the CPU will really be your bottleneck.. at least this is what I expect, we will see reviews, as you said.

 

[avg123]

On 7/21/2018 at 7:40 AM, GoodBytes said:

That is what is said.. we will see once the device is officially released.

 

It really depends on you. Chrome and even Firefox consumes a lot of RAM, Edge has the ability to move tabs from RAM to storage on the fly, allowing  the web browser to drop significantly to a few MB when the web browser is minimized, despite having multiple tabs open. Also, it depends on you. if you use tabs and don't use bookmarks and so you have 200 tabs open, well... of course 4GB is not enough, however if you stick to a very few tabs, than you should be OK.

 

Similarly for programs. At 4GB, you definitely would want to do your best to have near 0 background apps. Like have Windows Defender and OneDrive, and that is it... maybe a 1-2 more things that you really really need, but, well, you get it. But I think the Pentium CPU will be bottleneck for demanding software more than your limited amount of RAM. I mean the Pentium Gold is between a Atom and a Core i3 Y series. So, it is pretty slow. It doesn't help that doesn't have Turbo Boost, and the clock isn't high.  This is the type of system you want to limit your multi-tasking as well, and expect to be some what patient on demanding tasks, including Windows Update. Basically, you have the RAM speed, SSD (if we ignore the eMMC 64GB model) and GPU all on your side to have a great experience on playing videos, movies, starting up programs, smooth program animations, and such, but the CPU will really be your bottleneck.. at least this is what I expect, we will see reviews, as you said.

 

But edge sucks. Or I would have definitely used edge. Edge lacks right clicking text and "search in Google" feature.

 

It even lacks search in Bing feature. Now there is ask Cortana feature that brings out a side bar. I wish it would at least open search result in new tabs, not a side bar.

[GoodBytes]

40 minutes ago, avg123 said:

But edge sucks. Or I would have definitely used edge. Edge lacks right clicking text and "search in Google" feature. It even lacks search in Bing feature.

Sure you have it. Well Bing... select word, and right-click and you'll see: "Ask Bing about <selection>".

Edge does also give you:

• Excellent touch and multi-touch support
• Scrolling
• Longest battery life while playing full screen videos
• Best video quality
• Excellent font rendering (like Firefox)
• "Set aside" tab feature

I am not going to say that Edge is the best web browser, not by a long shot, but it has come a long way since its initial release, and does a good job in my opinion.

 

Quote

Now there is ask Cortana feature that brings out a side bar. I wish it would at least open search result in new tabs, not a side bar.

When you click one one of the results on the side bar (which you can pin, via the pin icon), results open in a new tab.

[LAwLz]

Not a fan.

The display seems nice, and pen support is a plus to some people.

However, once you upgrade the RAM to a usable amount (8GB) and the SSD from the terrible eMMC which in many scenarios will probably be worse than a HDD (for example sequential reads and writes) then it's suddenly 550 dollars.

On top of that the device is almost completely unusable without the keyboard cover (using Windows 10 with only touch is about as pleasant as passing a kidney stone), so that's another 100 dollars.

 

So 650 dollars for an Atom based laptop, with a mediocre keyboard that you can't really use on your lap (kickstand becomes way too wobbly, and the keyboard isn't rigid enough).

Not to mention all the issues the previous Surface models have had, like awful WiFi, the battery issues which lead to a class action lawsuit, terrible reliability, and so on.

 

 

 

On 7/21/2018 at 4:10 AM, GoodBytes said:

Chrome and even Firefox consumes a lot of RAM, Edge has the ability to move tabs from RAM to storage on the fly, allowing  the web browser to drop significantly to a few MB when the web browser is minimized, despite having multiple tabs open.

Chrome and Firefox caches to disk too.

 

7 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Sure you have it. Well Bing... select word, and right-click and you'll see: "Ask Bing about <selection>".

Not in my version (42.17134.1.0).

 

7 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Scrolling

Are you saying other browsers don't support scrolling?

 

7 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Longest battery life while playing full screen videos

[Citation heavily needed]

And don't link me to the Microsoft test since it is a first party one, and third parties like LTT have not been able to replicate the results.

 

7 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Best video quality

That statement needs a massive asterisk behind it, because it only applies to one website.

 

 

 

On 7/21/2018 at 2:44 AM, GoodBytes said:

Yes. But 2 things:

1. The store now has all (beside web browsers) apps that that you typical user need and more. Office, iTunes, Spotify, Whatsapp, Amazon Music, VLC, Fitbit, Kodi, Slack, Telegram, Evernote, Paint.net, and more, not to mention apps for instead of websites (Facebook, Messenger, Netflic, Hulu, Crunchyroll, Instagram). I already cross music sheet programs with pen support, like Staffpad.
    
2. Free upgrade to Windows 10 Pro. So, in a way, you can see that the device comes with Windows 10 Pro instead of Home.
    

Yup, for sure!

1. I wouldn't say it features all the programs typical users need. I mean, grandma and grandpa basically just needs a browser these days.

For some slightly more demanding users the selection of programs in the store quickly falls apart.

No 7zip/Winrar (I assume the "Activate_WinRAR" app is a scam, which the store is full of I might add).

No OBS.

No Thunderbird.

Essentially no games (and no Steam).

No Discord.

VLC is a gimped version rather than the full version.

No VM software from what I can find (no VMWare workstation or virtualbox)

No Photoshop or basically any other Adobe software for that matter.

No Audacity.

No KeePass.

No good text editor from what I can tell. No Notepad++ or Atom for example.

No PIA client, although that might be possible to fix through the Windows built in VPN client.

 

I can keep going but I think you get the point. None of the stuff I mentioned is even that obscure. Just a bunch of programs you will find on computers of forum users on here. And no, LTT forum users is not a high bar for power users. I'd say LTT forums is an average teen with a slight interest in computers, mostly so that they can play games.

 

2. Will the free upgrade me a limited offer, like it was on the Surface laptop?

Anyway, I really dislike this push for Windows 10S. Even if it is free now, I am 100% sure that Microsoft's long term goal is for the store to be the standard, and using anything but the store will be a pain in the ass. I mean, even in the system they have right now it's a pain. It's a pretty simple button, sure, but once it starts costing money grandma and grandpa will suddenly be prompted to type in their credit card info into a mysterious popup in order to run a program they have already bought, on their brand new computer they just paid for. It's a huge slap in the face.

[Commodus]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Anyway, I really dislike this push for Windows 10S. Even if it is free now, I am 100% sure that Microsoft's long term goal is for the store to be the standard, and using anything but the store will be a pain in the ass. I mean, even in the system they have right now it's a pain. It's a pretty simple button, sure, but once it starts costing money grandma and grandpa will suddenly be prompted to type in their credit card info into a mysterious popup in order to run a program they have already bought, on their brand new computer they just paid for. It's a huge slap in the face.

I'm not sure that's the ultimate goal, rather it's just to get... more use than it does now.

 

Windows 10 S mode is mainly intended as Microsoft's play against Chromebooks in schools and business -- it's the install you know won't lead to people (easily) installing malware or unauthorized games.  I don't think it cares nearly as much about home users who want to install Steam.  Microsoft doesn't have to make money from unlocking it; it just has to win over a company that was otherwise going to buy a whole bunch of Chromebooks and never talk to Microsoft again.

 

I look at the Windows Store more like you might the Mac App Store.  It's easier, it's included by default and there are certain advantages to using it.  But in both cases, the creators understand that it's not the be-all, end-all of the experience on that platform.  PC users generally expect the ability to install apps from other sources, and Microsoft knows that as much as Apple does.

[Mr.Meerkat]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

the terrible eMMC which in many scenarios will probably be worse than a HDD (for example sequential reads and writes)

But how much does sequential speeds matter for 'normal' usage? Random read/write speeds are generally considerably faster with eMMC storage  so although sequential speeds may be slower (depends on what eMMC they've used, can be either faster or slower), for lighter use cases, eMMC can feel considerably snappier, not to mention how eMMC also generally has lower latencies. 

[Christophe Corazza]

On 21-7-2018 at 3:07 AM, captain_to_fire said:

Say no to 4GB of RAM. Browsers alone will chew on that easily not to mention Windows 10 background tasks 

 

With the latest alterations to Chrome, 4 GB does seem like it's not enough anymore nowadays.

 

 

[wasab]

Buy one and install Linux on it then cover the Windows logo with a penguin sticker, the Windows key with a penguin superkey, and peel away all the oem stickers on it. 

 

No more microshaft winblows. It is now full fledge penguin.

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, wasab said:

Buy one and install Linux on it then cover the Windows logo with a penguin sticker, the Windows key with a penguin superkey, and peel away all the oem stickers on it. 

 

No more microshaft winblows. It is now full fledge penguin.

Okay, you do that.  Meanwhile, us adults who don't tie their self-esteem to their choice of operating system will just use Windows on the Surface Go and get work done.

[Belgarathian]

I like it. 

 

That mouse looks like it would be a third place contender for worst mouse ever, right behind Apple's current Magic Mouse, and the hockey puck.

[LAwLz]

16 hours ago, Commodus said:

I'm not sure that's the ultimate goal, rather it's just to get... more use than it does now.

I disagree.

With all the rumors of Microsoft incentivizing OEMs to ship computers with S mode enabled by default, as well as how aggressively they have pushed UWP, the store and S mode in general, it seems to me like their ultimate, long term plan is to make everyone use that (similar to how everyone uses the app store and Google play on iOS/Android).

 

16 hours ago, Commodus said:

Windows 10 S mode is mainly intended as Microsoft's play against Chromebooks in schools and business -- it's the install you know won't lead to people (easily) installing malware or unauthorized games.  I don't think it cares nearly as much about home users who want to install Steam.  Microsoft doesn't have to make money from unlocking it; it just has to win over a company that was otherwise going to buy a whole bunch of Chromebooks and never talk to Microsoft again.

Ehm, it seems to me like S mode is appearing everywhere, not just computers aimed at schools and businesses.

I don't think Microsoft's goal is to make people pay for disabling S mode. I think their goal is to make it more difficult to use programs outside the store, which will encourage people to use the store.

When people use the store, Microsoft makes money. Microsoft has seen the success of the app store, Google Play, Steam and so on, and thought "damn, we're missing out on ~30% of all the third party software sales made for Windows. We better get on that train because others are making fortunes on it!".

 

16 hours ago, Commodus said:

I look at the Windows Store more like you might the Mac App Store.  It's easier, it's included by default and there are certain advantages to using it.  But in both cases, the creators understand that it's not the be-all, end-all of the experience on that platform.  PC users generally expect the ability to install apps from other sources, and Microsoft knows that as much as Apple does.

I don't think that's how Microsoft sees it.

I hope that you're right, because I truly believe the Microsoft store is absolute garbage that does not deserve to exist (mainly because it relies on UWP), but I don't think that's how Microsoft sees it. I think Microsoft has wet dreams about 80% of all software on PCs coming from the Store. And that goal would not be all too unrealistic.

 

15 hours ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

But how much does sequential speeds matter for 'normal' usage? Random read/write speeds are generally considerably faster with eMMC storage  so although sequential speeds may be slower (depends on what eMMC they've used, can be either faster or slower), for lighter use cases, eMMC can feel considerably snappier, not to mention how eMMC also generally has lower latencies. 

Yeah, for a lot of everyday activities eMMC will probably feel snappier.

I compared it to a HDD just to highlight that eMMC is often really slow. If you're buying the 400 dollar Surface then you're getting a really, really low end device. 

 

9 hours ago, Commodus said:

Okay, you do that.  Meanwhile, us adults who don't tie their self-esteem to their choice of operating system will just use Windows on the Surface Go and get work done.

Are you implying that you can't "get work done" on GNU/Linux, and that only children use it?

[Commodus]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Are you implying that you can't "get work done" on GNU/Linux, and that only children use it?

No, just that wasab's clearly more interested in foisting ideology on to the device than getting something done with it (based on initial research, some of the hardware functionality would go AWOL with Linux installed).  I'm fine with Linux and definitely aware that you can do serious work with it; but when someone talks about "microshaft winblows," it's pretty obvious that work has nothing to do with what they want.

 

(Also, on the Windows 10 S stuff: I'm not going in-depth on that just because I can't rule out your assessment; Microsoft isn't completely clear on how far it will go to push S mode and the Windows Store.)

[GoodBytes]

Just to provide an update:

 

So The Surface Go is now available in US and Canada. Reviews are coming out, they are mostly positive, the negative ones seems to highlight the fact that it isn't a power-house system and lack performance for things like Photoshop, and struggles with Chrome with "many" tabs open, or demanding websites, but Edge seems to perform nicely. This is inline with what I expected, I mean it is a Pentium Gold in the end of the day, so demanding sites will struggle, and of course Chrome, being a demanding web browser will also have issues when you have many tabs. If you keep things in low amount of tabs, things seems to run fine.

 

Windows Central review shares eMMC and SSD performance difference for the Surface Go, and how it compares with other devices. Sadly they only share the peek read and write speeds and not the more important small file performance, but it is a something:

Quote

Surface Go (128 SSD) vs Surface Go (64 eMMC)

CrystalDiskMark (higher is better)

Device	Read	Write
Surface Go (eMMC)	260 MB/s	145 MB/s
Surface Go (SSD)	1,185 MB/s	133 MB/s
Surface 3	149 MB/s	33 MB/s
Surface Laptop	648 MB/s	244 MB/s
Surface Pro 4	758 MB/s	159 MB/s
Surface Pro 2017	847MB/s	801 MB/s
Surface Book	1,018 MB/s	967 MB/s
Surface Pro 2017	1,284 MB/s	963 MB/s
Surface Book 2	1,411 MB/s	1,202 MB/s

Source: https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-go-64gb-emmc-speed-test

 

So we can see that eMMC model does indeed use a newer version of eMMC and does perform better than the Surface 3, definitely using a newer version of eMMC.

SSD is obviously a budget one, with poor write speeds, but considering that this device is not for demanding productivity tasks, read speeds is more important than writes (you'll be saving mostly documents, not video encoding or something... beside probably the CPU would be the bottleneck... I don't know... but guessing)

[Arika]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

the negative ones seems to highlight the fact that it isn't a power-house system and lack performance for things like Photoshop, and struggles with Chrome with "many" tabs open

which is pretty dumb, because it's not designed to be a powerhouse.

[mynameisjuan]

20 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

beside probably the CPU would be the bottleneck... I don't know... but guessing

I am still awaiting benchmarks or at least reviews of the base model. Reads are not bad but I want to see some real world usage of simple task such as browsing, streaming, excel... Nothing taxing but I would like to see smoothness. Reviewers are just kind of showing screenshots or pans of the tablet and not performance. I can see a use for the GO, much more productive than the ipad, would be great at work for me. 

[suicidalfranco]

just get an iPad, it last you longer and be smother in the long run

[GoodBytes]

Correction on the news:

The OS is by default is Windows 10 S, and you can upgrade for free to Windows 10 Home, not Pro as previously though.

No OS re-install/upgrade needed when you do so, it just switches, and now you can install apps outside from the Store.

 

The process is simple:

When you run a .exe outside of the store, you'll get the pop-up saying that you can't run it, and you have a link that opens the Store directly on the page to upgrade to Windows 10 Home for free, and hit the "Get" button

Or

Simply go to: Settings > Update & Security > Activation > Go to Store, and hit the "Get" button

[david cassar]

21 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Correction on the news:

The OS is by default is Windows 10 S, and you can upgrade for free to Windows 10 Home, not Pro as previously though.

No OS re-install/upgrade needed when you do so, it just switches, and now you can install apps outside from the Store.

 

The process is simple:

When you run a .exe outside of the store, you'll get the pop-up saying that you can't run it, and you have a link that opens the Store directly on the page to upgrade to Windows 10 Home for free, and hit the "Get" button

Or

Simply go to: Settings > Update & Security > Activation > Go to Store, and hit the "Get" button

do you think the surface go would be good for a university student using it for note taking and general browsing or would something like this (which is about 100 euro cheaper) be a better option? : https://www.amazon.de/HP-Pavilion-15-cs0202ng-Notebook-i3-8130U/dp/B07D5NGW95/ref=sr_1_80?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1533384450&sr=1-80&keywords=Laptop&refinements=p_36%3A40000-60000
I'm more inclined towards the surface as it is much more portable and wouldn't be that much of a drag to haul it around university.
 

[79wjd]

18 minutes ago, david cassar said:

do you think the surface go would be good for a university student using it for note taking and general browsing or would something like this (which is about 100 euro cheaper) be a better option? : https://www.amazon.de/HP-Pavilion-15-cs0202ng-Notebook-i3-8130U/dp/B07D5NGW95/ref=sr_1_80?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1533384450&sr=1-80&keywords=Laptop&refinements=p_36%3A40000-60000
I'm more inclined towards the surface as it is much more portable and wouldn't be that much of a drag to haul it around university.
 

The Surface is a good option if you intend to heavily use the pen, otherwise, it's pretty terrible.

[The Benjamins]

17 minutes ago, david cassar said:

do you think the surface go would be good for a university student using it for note taking and general browsing or would something like this (which is about 100 euro cheaper) be a better option? : https://www.amazon.de/HP-Pavilion-15-cs0202ng-Notebook-i3-8130U/dp/B07D5NGW95/ref=sr_1_80?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1533384450&sr=1-80&keywords=Laptop&refinements=p_36%3A40000-60000
I'm more inclined towards the surface as it is much more portable and wouldn't be that much of a drag to haul it around university.
 

Keep in mind all surface devices (except the book) do not come with a keyboard or pen. So if you expect to use it more as a laptop most of the time I would get a standard laptop, but if your use case it tablet most of the time with laptop functions then it would be a good buy IMO.

[Drak3]

48 minutes ago, david cassar said:

do you think the surface go would be good for a university student using it for note taking and general browsing or would something like this (which is about 100 euro cheaper) be a better option? : https://www.amazon.de/HP-Pavilion-15-cs0202ng-Notebook-i3-8130U/dp/B07D5NGW95/ref=sr_1_80?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1533384450&sr=1-80&keywords=Laptop&refinements=p_36%3A40000-60000
I'm more inclined towards the surface as it is much more portable and wouldn't be that much of a drag to haul it around university.
 

I'm going to disagree with with Djdwosk and say that the Surface Pro 4+ tablets are pretty good overall, and if compute power isn't needed, I'd take my i5 Surface Pro 4 over my MacBook Pro.

 

Though, with the Go, I wouldn't recommend it unless you need to run desktop programs but can't afford a better Windows tablet.

[YoloSwag]

17 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I'm going to disagree with with Djdwosk and say that the Surface Pro 4+ tablets are pretty good overall, and if compute power isn't needed, I'd take my i5 Surface Pro 4 over my MacBook Pro.

 

Though, with the Go, I wouldn't recommend it unless you need to run desktop programs but can't afford a better Windows tablet.

For $399? If one uses a computer for studying I'd find a second hand good laptop being sold by companies instead.

Background: Some companies buy computers and laptops in excess and replace them every 2 or 3 years, the computers and laptops themselves don't even get used to 100% capacity generally if it was a non multi-media arts company. So these would still be in generally good condition requiring only minor upgrades like RAM and a good SSD.

 

Well, if you can find one really. Second hand laptops online are sketchy when it comes to condition.

 

iPad is good enough if you want to read and search online, and be part of certain social groups lol.

It won't offer much flexibility for running other stuff but since some schools use Macintosh, getting an iPad adds to the convenience.

 

IMO -

iPad = Toy / play thing / minor reading and searching / multi-media |

Windows - Anything less than a decent laptop is disappointing... so I agree with you