Paris is considering eSports for the 2024 Olympics

[knightslugger]

6 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Nope just train hours on end on tactics teamwork communication aim reflexes and all other important aspects of the game. They also have physical therapist and dietitians to ensure they stay healthy so don't act like they don't try incredibly hard to do what they do. Not all sport require the same type of training but the main thing is they all require practice and effort to become the best that they can be. 

Aim reflexes - you mean wrist reaction time.

 

...some women i know would be shoe ins if that was part of the conditioning.

 

this is like who can smash that buzzer the fastest. i think there's an Anime series about that in Japan right now... dumb as hell.

[spartaman64]

2 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

I have no idea what dressage is, but strictly rifle shooting (like F-class) should be removed from the Olympics, IMO.

 

not just conditioning, but conditioning of the "human condition".

so only sports with the things you value should be in the olympics? so if i only value kicking balls really hard then all other sports that dont have you kicking balls should either incorporate that or get removed from the olympics 

[Brooksie359]

3 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

 

The difference is in real life you can improve your skill enough to make changes that can make you more competitive that dont follow the guidelines of hard computer code. There is variance, not locked down mechanics which requires cookie cutter builds as a requirement for almost every game. So in esports you just see the same character build or team comp every single time and the strat that follows. 

 

Also most sport announcers are annoying as fuck as well. I just cant standing caption obvious telling me what I am watching over and over. But its the worst in esports

 

 

Sure its a team based competition, but teams in games vs teams in real life are completely different in how much skill it takes to actually work together. 

There are clearl differences between individuals in esports and their capabilities so I would disagree that you are limited by the game. Also team work is teamwork no matter what setting so trying to say it's harder in sports is just speculation and there really is no way to determine if that's even remotely true partly because there are many different sports that require different types of teamwork and communication and aren't really comparable.

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, knightslugger said:

Aim reflexes - you mean wrist reaction time.

 

...some women i know would be shoe ins if that was part of the conditioning.

 

this is like who can smash that buzzer the fastest. i think there's an Anime series about that in Japan right now... dumb as hell.

olympic fencing is basically that. they run at each other and see who can hit the other person the fastest 

[knightslugger]

2 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

and you cant improve your skills in competitive video games? and what do you mean no locked down mechanics? in table tennis you get the same forehand top spin, back hand flicks, etc etc and for other sports people generally do the same things as the other players also

there was a time when all motorcycle road racers moved the bike under them while staying vertical. it wasn't until the 80's when leaning with the bike was shown to be more effective at keeping traction. who's to say another technique couldn't be developed for table tennis?

[spartaman64]

Just now, knightslugger said:

there was a time when all motorcycle road racers moved the bike under them while staying vertical. it wasn't until the 80's when leaning with the bike was shown to be more effective at keeping traction. who's to say another technique couldn't be developed for table tennis?

and if someone finds a more effective technique then everyone would switch to that so once again everyone using the same mechanics

[knightslugger]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

olympic fencing is basically that. they run at each other and see who can hit the other person the fastest 

it's a little more involved than that. parrying a stab, lunging, defending, and accuracy also play into it.

[Sauron]

25 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Almost every esports game is as its just watching the same strat over and over. Also you have the most annoying as fuck announcers to make it even worse.

I disagree, there are games that offer much more variety and games that require so much mechanical prowess that it's entertaining just to see the same strategy being perfected every time with a display of skills that far exceeds what you could imagine being able of. LoL is mostly about team coordination, character control is not particularly hard and when the strategies are always the same, it gets dull quickly.

 

Of course you're entitled to your own taste if you enjoy watching LoL.

[knightslugger]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

and if someone finds a more effective technique then everyone would switch to that so once again everyone using the same mechanics

when it was tried for the first time, only a few were using it. now everyone uses it.

 

in the same vein, now you see MotoGP riders developed the hanging a leg forward under breaking. that's now filtered down to club sport riders.

[Brooksie359]

2 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

Aim reflexes - you mean wrist reaction time.

 

...some women i know would be shoe ins if that was part of the conditioning.

 

this is like who can smash that buzzer the fastest. i think there's an Anime series about that in Japan right now... dumb as hell.

Makes sense as less than 1% of esports players are women. You make it seem like it's so easy to be a professional esports player but I'd like to see you try it.

[spartaman64]

Just now, knightslugger said:

when it was tried for the first time, only a few were using it. now everyone uses it.

 

in the same vein, now you see MotoGP riders developed the hanging a leg forward under breaking. that's now filtered down to club sport riders.

exactly so every sport has people using the same mechanics 

[knightslugger]

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

exactly so every sport has people using the same mechanics 

not every rider rides with a dangling leg... and not every rider that does wins.

[DeScruff]

1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

But those items don't come from a single supplier. If you want to make your own, you can.

Again... debatable. Volleyball equipment can come from a single supplier since Im fairly sure the athletes don't pick what Wilson ball they want to use.

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

Yeah, but they can wear whatever they want. Having a CS:GO competition means you can only play CS:GO. It'd be like having a Nike shoe running match. 

I'd need to look more into each sports history, but at some point I'm fairly sure some other sport was just like that... Starting as something 1 person made, and everyone started copying the tools to make it.
I'm just pointing out the Olympics for a looooong time have been massive commercials for various products, and I doubt the whole commercial aspect would have any relevance. If the Burnswick Corporation still was the only maker of snowboards would you discount it as being a possible Olympic Event? - Insert other modern Olympic events and if the original manufacturer was still the only manufacture of the equipment.

I'm not trying to argue that a CS:GO event is a good idea, to me the variety of videogames, and how they change/update so frequently and new games supersede old ones makes them hard to be an Olympic event unlike: Swimming since the rules of swimming, and the laws of physics haven't changed in the 100 years of the sport.
Meanwhile if Videogames started as an event 30 years ago, and lets say Super Mario Brothers 1 was chosen, would we still be having a "Super Mario Brothers 1" Event today?

[knightslugger]

2 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Makes sense as less than 1% of esports players are women. You make it seem like it's so easy to be a professional esports player but I'd like to see you try it.

make no mistake, as i said before, i respect every professional in their sport. EVERY PROFESSIONAL. I just don't believe it should be UNIVERSAL.

[Brooksie359]

2 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

make no mistake, as i said before, i respect every professional in their sport. EVERY PROFESSIONAL. I just don't believe it should be UNIVERSAL.

What do you mean universal?

[Mira Yurizaki]

Just now, Sypran said:

Again... debatable. Volleyball equipment can come from a single supplier since Im fairly sure the athletes don't pick what Wilson ball they want to use.

Coming from a single supplier is different than there being only one supplier. Wilson isn't the only producer of volleyballs in the world. And again, you can make your own because volleyballs aren't a protected item.

 

But you can't make your own Overwatch or CS:GO, because they are the game, they are not part of the game. Nor can you ask someone else to make it, because they're protected IPs.

[NumLock21]

16 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

You do realise that most of them things have been in the Olympics in the past, it wasn't always purely sports based.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_competitions_at_the_1948_Summer_Olympics

I already saw that wiki article.

[mynameisjuan]

3 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

and you cant improve your skills in competitive video games? and what do you mean no locked down mechanics? in table tennis you get the same forehand top spin, back hand flicks, etc etc and for other sports people generally do the same things as the other players also

Fixed speed, fixed damage, fixed health, fixed sprint duration, fixed armor, fixed jump height....etc... Games are hard coded. Items can cause some variance but nothing compares to actually variance in humans. Humans can practice to improve individual skills and are not limited to balance issues

[Brooksie359]

6 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

when it was tried for the first time, only a few were using it. now everyone uses it.

 

in the same vein, now you see MotoGP riders developed the hanging a leg forward under breaking. that's now filtered down to club sport riders.

I mean people in esports all have their own style and use different mechanics. People often even develop new strategies and mechanics to use. One such mechanic is the called an insec in league of Legends.

[DXMember]

1 hour ago, The Benjamins said:

Riot also has judges for when bugs happen in game, to decide if it is a issue and if the game needs to be restarted or even disable the use of something.

or to nerf Olaf to the ground because some retards decided to tower dive Voyboy...

 

[Misanthrope]

2 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

https://compete.kotaku.com/paris-olympic-committee-will-consider-esports-for-the-2-1797678847

 

Basically:

My first thought is this really blows up the boundaries to what is a sport and what isn't. However I'm still hesitant to include it in the Olympics. Plus other people brought up good points such as:

• Olympic games do not necessarily require a commercial product to do. Using an eSports game does require a commercial product and so it would be a huge advertisement for said product.
• It's a barrier for some countries who can't afford a computer to play said games and may not have a robust enough internet infrastructure. Though while it's easy to scoff at this argument in going "well the equipment they use at the games probably cost more than my machine", a lot of people can build up their athletic skills without the expensive, top-of-the-line equipment.
  • EDIT: Also companies give athletes the equipment as part of being a sponsor.
• It could open up the argument for other competitive games that are not generally considered "sports" to be included, like I dunno, chess. Or even some that are considered sports but are never part of the Olympics, like car racing.
• There's already too many effing games.

1) Balls, protective gear, weights, etc. All commercial products. Unless you're ok with moving diving to a river and playing soccer with a coconut that's too rigorous a standard already. 

 

2) Many countries are so damn poor that anything that again requires a gym, a pool, snow or ice, a more or less workable condition field or track, etc. Suffer from this as well.

 

3) Well we probably should include chess then. Car races would bring damn large crowds too

 

4) And yet people find time for them. If this was valid the Olympics would have died decades ago in favor of just having more Football world cups instead.

[Brooksie359]

12 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Fixed speed, fixed damage, fixed health, fixed sprint duration, fixed armor, fixed jump height....etc... Games are hard coded. Items can cause some variance but nothing compares to actually variance in humans. Humans can practice to improve individual skills and are not limited to balance issues

Fixed balls, fixed net height, fixed rules, fixed ect. Your argument is flawed because you are under the impression that there aren't fixed constraints on other sports.

[knightslugger]

18 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

What do you mean universal?

in the same vein as running, jumping, lifting, and throwing are all the results of conditioning of "The Human Condition". Running is a human activity that is shared the world over. Spear throwing is a human activity that is shared the world over. Cannonball (or other extremely cumbersome object) throwing, discus, jumping, dead lifting, swimming, etc.

 

I am in favor of returning the Olympics to their physical roots. This team sports garbage has to go too.

[Brooksie359]

Just now, knightslugger said:

in the same vein as running, jumping, lifting, and throwing are all the results of conditioning of "The Human Condition". Running is a human activity that is shared the world over. Spear throwing is a human activity that is shared the world over. Cannonball (or other extremely cumbersome object) throwing, discus, jumping, dead lifting, swimming, etc.

 

I am in favor of returning the Olympics to their physical roots.

Idk about you but spear throwing isn't really shared universally. I mean I don't know many people who have even done spear throwing so to say it has to be universal is kind of silly. I mean look at the entire winter Olympics. They all are only shared in places that actually get snow so it isn't universal to alot of the world's population. In fact it is much more possible to get access to esports than it is to let say skiing. 

[spartaman64]

7 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

in the same vein as running, jumping, lifting, and throwing are all the results of conditioning of "The Human Condition". Running is a human activity that is shared the world over. Spear throwing is a human activity that is shared the world over. Cannonball (or other extremely cumbersome object) throwing, discus, jumping, dead lifting, swimming, etc.

 

I am in favor of returning the Olympics to their physical roots.

im pretty sure only one place in the world had discus throwing as a tradition