Vega, mining and the 'gamer' what chance do we have?

[dewuevnoc]

I plan on a vega64 air cooled card making it's way into my system one way or another. ideally the stand alone card but, I'm prepared to fork the extra $100 for a pack and throwing away the discounts (the games interest me, so there's that)

 

with the talk about the ridiculous hash rate on Vega 64 (whether they're based on fact or not considering FE"s hash rate is questionable ) I'm concerned that, even buying on launch day I might not get a card.

 

Was Polaris reveled to be a great mining card just prior to it's launch? How did that effect avability for reference cards? Who are AMD's launch day retailers? 

 

I don't want to have to wake up at 12:01 AM just to beat some one trying to make a couple of bucks...

 

 

[Taswell]

newegg has been putting limits on the hard to get cards so that might help

if you want one its either try really hard at launch or wait a while for more stock 

[MadModder]

I had to wait to get my 1080. I put myself on several waiting list with desktop alerts. I jumped on the first one available, which wasn't the exact model I was planning on, but I was sick of waiting and pounced on it. Just in time too, as they all sold out within minutes. 

[dizmo]

Maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell.

Really, people buying multiple cards are making more than "a couple bucks"

[Jon Jon]

I will be watching for the limited edition air cooled 64s like a hawk.

 

Last year, I made the mistake of sitting on Polaris. Next thing I know, I couldn't even buy them.

 

I am not making that same mistake twice.

[dewuevnoc]

36 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell.

Really, people buying multiple cards are making more than "a couple bucks"

oh I understand it's more than a couple of bucks.

it doesn't change the fact that mining is to a degree, ruining PC gaming. 

 

I put together a brand new rig for a couple of titles specifically because they look better on PC.

 

Now I'm glad I didn't get rid of the PS4. . .

[dizmo]

Just now, dewuevnoc said:

oh I understand it's more than a couple of bucks.

 

it doesn't change the fact that mining is to a degree, ruining PC gaming. 

Haha no. There's still millions of people that play. Just because right now it's a little tricky to build a higher end machine doesn't mean it'll die at all. There are still low tier cards aplenty. You could always buy one of those to tide you over.

[System Error Message]

AMD card reliability is questionable though as their cards seem to be dying quick since their GCN2 and newer. So what this means is that buying a used card that was used for mining is a bad deal. See if you can preorder the card, it locks you to getting the card at the said price.

 

The best way to deter from mining if you cant change the algorithm, is to ship the cards with a firmware that nerfs hashing performance on the consumer cards, not the professional ones. Later on introduce an update to unlock the full hashing performance, afterall nvidia has been doing it on their consumer cards for years to reduce the performance in non gaming use.

[dewuevnoc]

18 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Haha no. There's still millions of people that play. Just because right now it's a little tricky to build a higher end machine doesn't mean it'll die at all. There are still low tier cards aplenty. You could always buy one of those to tide you over.

Merely one aspect of my complaints about the issue, although, I didn't say it was dying. It is unquestionably interfering with anyone's ability to put together a machine at the moment. 

 

I did buy a 970 hold me over but, It would make no sense at this point to buy some other used card for my build plan. Even if I hadn't bought the 970, how many AMD cards can reliably push 4K? How many haven't been used for mining already? How long as Polaris consistently been out of stock? I put together my purchases based on the theory that this wouldn't be an issue. Now I'm wondering if the free sync panel was such a good idea and, whether I should just jump ship to Nvidia. The $400 premium has kept me patient but at the end of the day If I want a mediocre experience, my consoles are just fine for that. 

[Zodiark1593]

2 hours ago, System Error Message said:

AMD card reliability is questionable though as their cards seem to be dying quick since their GCN2 and newer. So what this means is that buying a used card that was used for mining is a bad deal. See if you can preorder the card, it locks you to getting the card at the said price.

 

The best way to deter from mining if you cant change the algorithm, is to ship the cards with a firmware that nerfs hashing performance on the consumer cards, not the professional ones. Later on introduce an update to unlock the full hashing performance, afterall nvidia has been doing it on their consumer cards for years to reduce the performance in non gaming use.

So then genius, how would a firmware differentiate between hashing and literally any other GPGPU program that can be run on a GPU?

[dizmo]

14 hours ago, dewuevnoc said:

Merely one aspect of my complaints about the issue, although, I didn't say it was dying. It is unquestionably interfering with anyone's ability to put together a machine at the moment. 

 

I did buy a 970 hold me over but, It would make no sense at this point to buy some other used card for my build plan. Even if I hadn't bought the 970, how many AMD cards can reliably push 4K? How many haven't been used for mining already? How long as Polaris consistently been out of stock? I put together my purchases based on the theory that this wouldn't be an issue. Now I'm wondering if the free sync panel was such a good idea and, whether I should just jump ship to Nvidia. The $400 premium has kept me patient but at the end of the day If I want a mediocre experience, my consoles are just fine for that. 

Dying and ruining are basically the same thing. You should have been more concise and said something like "ruining the ability for current builds." Saying it's ruining gaming is simply misleading.

• The R9 Fury X, and the 295x2 both handle 4k relatively well.
• Mining doesn't affect newer cards as much as you'd think.
• If you purchased parts over time, it's a lesson: buy all at once for the best value.
• Theories are just that, theories. You need to come to terms with reality and adapt accordingly.
• Nvidia cards mine too. It's not like before when it was only AMD. You'd be in the same boat.

[Teddy07]

@dewuevnoc

Calm down! The "leaked" hash rate is only speculation. Let´s just wait and see the facts.

[Frankenburger]

14 hours ago, dewuevnoc said:

It is unquestionably interfering with anyone's ability to put together a machine buy an AMD GPU at the moment. 

FTFY

 

14 hours ago, dewuevnoc said:

The $400 premium has kept me patient

Patient enough to not be keeping up with GSync prices? Most comparable GSync monitors only cost about $100 to $150 more than FreeSync. Bestbuy is currently selling a 144Hz Gsync 27" 1440p display for $450. The cheapest FreeSync monitor that matches those specs is $408 (the Acer XG270HU).

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/4yGj4D/dell-s2716dgr-270-2560x1440-144hz-monitor-s2716dgr

 

 

[PianoPlayer88Key]

On 8/7/2017 at 4:31 PM, ITheSpazI said:

newegg has been putting limits on the hard to get cards so that might help

That's good.

I think it'd be nice if there was a way to also limit sales based on games, monitor setup, etc.  For example,

• Someone playing CS:GO, LoL, etc. at 1080p 60Hz 1 monitor might only be allowed to buy a single RX 560 or GTX 1050 or lower.
• Someone playing ARK:Survival Evolved or Ghost Recon Wildlands at 2160p 120-144Hz or 4320p 60Hz with 16 or 24 monitors(*1) could be permitted to buy 4 RX Vega 64s or equivalent NVidia.

(*1) There was a card - FirePro W9100 - that had 6 mini DP ports, times 4-way CF = 24 displays.  Don't think it supported 8K 60Hz per port, but if a newer one used all miniDPs.....hey, I think you could fit like 7 or 8 per PCI slot, times the 11 slots in the Corsair 900D ... 88 Monitors, anyone?  Ultrawide 122880x21600, or 76800x34560?

 

Also, limit how often you're allowed to buy.  You could only buy extras if the natural-length warranty expired, or you're RMA'ing a deceased(*2) card, for example.

 

(*2) Mining would immediately void all warranty on a consumer card (would still have to wait the year or whatever to buy a new one, although new architecture release would be allowed to buy), and somehow make sure the miner's CC info (used to purchase the card) doesn't get purged. (Of course this would be disclosed up front even before adding the card to cart.) Then, when the miner sells the card used, the buyer, upon installing it or checking warranty status, would be notified, and get a voucher/coupon for a free upgrade to SLI Quadro V6000s or CrossFireX Radeon Pro SSG (or equivalent gaming cards), paid for by the miner.

 

These limits wouldn't apply to cards like the Radeon Pro SSG or Tesla V100.

On 8/7/2017 at 5:38 PM, System Error Message said:

 

The best way to deter from mining if you cant change the algorithm, is to ship the cards with a firmware that nerfs hashing performance on the consumer cards, not the professional ones. Later on introduce an update to unlock the full hashing performance, afterall nvidia has been doing it on their consumer cards for years to reduce the performance in non gaming use.

 

This!! Nerf the mining performance in gaming cards.  Price/performance for mining after the nerf should be the equivalent of getting 3-4 fps at 144p, lowest settings, in (1992) Wolfenstein 3D on a Quadro P6000.  Require a Tesla or Radeon Pro SSG for full mining performance.  A Quadro (or AMD equivalent) would be in-between - using the nerfed-gaming-on-pro-cards analogy: $/perf like 24-30fps at 720p medium in CS:GO or LoL on a Quadro P6000.

 

[Ithanul]

4 hours ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

That's good.

I think it'd be nice if there was a way to also limit sales based on games, monitor setup, etc.  For example,

• Someone playing CS:GO, LoL, etc. at 1080p 60Hz 1 monitor might only be allowed to buy a single RX 560 or GTX 1050 or lower.
• Someone playing ARK:Survival Evolved or Ghost Recon Wildlands at 2160p 120-144Hz or 4320p 60Hz with 16 or 24 monitors(*1) could be permitted to buy 4 RX Vega 64s or equivalent NVidia.

(*1) There was a card - FirePro W9100 - that had 6 mini DP ports, times 4-way CF = 24 displays.  Don't think it supported 8K 60Hz per port, but if a newer one used all miniDPs.....hey, I think you could fit like 7 or 8 per PCI slot, times the 11 slots in the Corsair 900D ... 88 Monitors, anyone?  Ultrawide 122880x21600, or 76800x34560?

 

Also, limit how often you're allowed to buy.  You could only buy extras if the natural-length warranty expired, or you're RMA'ing a deceased(*2) card, for example.

 

(*2) Mining would immediately void all warranty on a consumer card (would still have to wait the year or whatever to buy a new one, although new architecture release would be allowed to buy), and somehow make sure the miner's CC info (used to purchase the card) doesn't get purged. (Of course this would be disclosed up front even before adding the card to cart.) Then, when the miner sells the card used, the buyer, upon installing it or checking warranty status, would be notified, and get a voucher/coupon for a free upgrade to SLI Quadro V6000s or CrossFireX Radeon Pro SSG (or equivalent gaming cards), paid for by the miner.

 

These limits wouldn't apply to cards like the Radeon Pro SSG or Tesla V100.

 

 

This!! Nerf the mining performance in gaming cards.  Price/performance for mining after the nerf should be the equivalent of getting 3-4 fps at 144p, lowest settings, in (1992) Wolfenstein 3D on a Quadro P6000.  Require a Tesla or Radeon Pro SSG for full mining performance.  A Quadro (or AMD equivalent) would be in-between - using the nerfed-gaming-on-pro-cards analogy: $/perf like 24-30fps at 720p medium in CS:GO or LoL on a Quadro P6000.

 

Um, I sure hope that they don't nerf.  Nerf mining would hurt more than just mining.

F@H and BOINC projects (especially certain BOINC projects) need that performance of a GPU.

 

Also, good luck on telling if a card was mined on.  F@H and BOINC put way more stress than any mining application will do.  From my experience, I actually see higher temps when running F@H or BOINC compare to running a mining application.  A skilled miner does not go balls to the wall with GPUs, especially if said miner is playing the electric bill.

 

Just to give an example:  my GTX980Ti runs at 50-55C under water when doing PrimeGrid or Einstein@Home, OC to around 1500MHz.  F@H the card sits at around 40-45C.  Mining, lower core OC, bump RAM, lower TDP, bam, card cruising lovely at around 35-40C.  Not hard to guess why I put I abuse GPUs with F@H and BOINC in my sig.   

[Nena Trinity]

Maybe we most pre-order?

[Jon Jon]

9 hours ago, Nena360 said:

Maybe we most pre-order?

That's my plan.

 

Worst case, if it's trash, just return it

 

Newegg Premiere!

[ravenshrike]

12 hours ago, Ithanul said:

Just to give an example:  my GTX980Ti runs at 50-55C under water when doing PrimeGrid or Einstein@Home, OC to around 1500MHz.  F@H the card sits at around 40-45C.  Mining, lower core OC, bump RAM, lower TDP, bam, card cruising lovely at around 35-40C.  Not hard to guess why I put I abuse GPUs with F@H and BOINC in my sig.   

Do you use F@H/BOINC 24/7 for months at a time?

[Ithanul]

31 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

Do you use F@H/BOINC 24/7 for months at a time?

Yep.  I run 24/7 F@H/BOINC.  Usually have the CPU doing BOINC tasks with open threads for the GPUs to do F@H.

[Text79]

On 8/7/2017 at 4:27 PM, dewuevnoc said:

I plan on a vega64 air cooled card making it's way into my system one way or another. ideally the stand alone card but, I'm prepared to fork the extra $100 for a pack and throwing away the discounts (the games interest me, so there's that)

 

with the talk about the ridiculous hash rate on Vega 64 (whether they're based on fact or not considering FE"s hash rate is questionable ) I'm concerned that, even buying on launch day I might not get a card.

 

Was Polaris reveled to be a great mining card just prior to it's launch? How did that effect avability for reference cards? Who are AMD's launch day retailers? 

 

I don't want to have to wake up at 12:01 AM just to beat some one trying to make a couple of bucks...

 

 

With ASUS, MSI and others we mind as well wait till sept. to see what they have for us (gamers) 

[dewuevnoc]

Well everyone, thank you very much for your replies.

 

After a long think about what's been said here, what I actually play and, what I'm looking for in my build, I picked up a 1080ti and a Dell 2716DG to replace the 4K LG panel I bought for Vega. The Dell is on sale at BB for $450 right now so I'm not too much over my budget.  

 

The card came in last night and I feel as though I've made the right choice, can't wait for the Dell to come in tonight!

 

[Jon Jon]

1 hour ago, dewuevnoc said:

Well everyone, thank you very much for your replies.

 

After a long think about what's been said here, what I actually play and, what I'm looking for in my build, I picked up a 1080ti and a Dell 2716DG to replace the 4K LG panel I bought for Vega. The Dell is on sale at BB for $450 right now so I'm not too much over my budget.  

 

The card came in last night and I feel as though I've made the right choice, can't wait for the Dell to come in tonight!

 

Since you had the cash, you are getting the better experience with that combo anyway!

 

I am excited to hear about it!

[System Error Message]

when i said to nerf GPGPU performance i meant temporarely. Release card with compute nerf, 6 months later add an update to give full performance. Isnt that what nvidia just did with the titan xp?

[Frankenburger]

2 hours ago, dewuevnoc said:

Well everyone, thank you very much for your replies.

 

After a long think about what's been said here, what I actually play and, what I'm looking for in my build, I picked up a 1080ti and a Dell 2716DG to replace the 4K LG panel I bought for Vega. The Dell is on sale at BB for $450 right now so I'm not too much over my budget.  

 

The card came in last night and I feel as though I've made the right choice, can't wait for the Dell to come in tonight!

 

Congrats on your purchase! I'm sure you'll quickly fall in love

[Zodiark1593]

2 hours ago, System Error Message said:

when i said to nerf GPGPU performance i meant temporarely. Release card with compute nerf, 6 months later add an update to give full performance. Isnt that what nvidia just did with the titan xp?

Pretty soon, I'm going to request a thumbs down rating...

 

Crippling GPGPU will piss off a lot more than just the mining community BTW. 3D artists, folding@home and other such tasks will also be hit.