Smoking Barrels - LTT's Unnofficial Gun Club!

[IkeaGnome]

18 hours ago, Nine Tailed Fox said:

Successful

You are currently the high bidder.

You bid on:

Glock 19 Gen5

If it doesn't work out, could always just make a trip up here. Always Glocks and tons of guns for private sale. Most people up here won't really use a FFL though so you might have to plan a vacation!

https://alaskaslist.com/?cityid=-3&lang=en&search=g19&pricemin=0&pricemax=0&view=ads&subcatid=63

[Nine Tailed Fox]

3 minutes ago, Voluspa said:

If it doesn't work out, could always just make a trip up here. Always Glocks and tons of guns for private sale. Most people up here won't really use a FFL though so you might have to plan a vacation!

https://alaskaslist.com/?cityid=-3&lang=en&search=g19&pricemin=0&pricemax=0&view=ads&subcatid=63

3,000mi road trip?

[Nine Tailed Fox]

Gun store owner agrees. Stopping by shop tomorrow to get process started

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I've never heard of this happening. Worth pointing out that the lifetime of a modern firearm, that is well made, is something like 50,000 rounds or more. Unless you're cleaning your guns wrong, cleaning should not hurt them. If we're talking AR-15's specifically, you should be cleaning them after each use.

 

Compare to the Spanish Ruby pistol, which had a lifetime of something like 500 rounds, assuming you tolerate the jamming and FTF long enough to actually get to 500 rounds.

Most popular rifle models don't use screws for maintenance, but some other hobbies that use screws, the screws wear out pretty quick. Other tolerances may become weaker in less strength demanding hobbies so, idk if it would happen with big name arms companies.

I think in some antique firearms, the metal is getting weak & might break easily if you try to remove the pins & stuff.

It is also the 21st century where we have much more advanced technology with C&C & refined the metals & plastics to very high quality relative to older firearms so yeah, you're quite right about the 50k rounds.

 

5 hours ago, george357 said:

The main issues of steel ammo is thought to be the lacquer used to coat most of them.

 

Here is a good read on the differences

 

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

Yeah, I read through this article once before.
That's crazy about the gas tube with the brown bear stuff...
How do you even clean that gas tube? Isn't it smaller than a .22? Do you need to get the hose or fill a bucket with gun cleaner & drop the part in?

 

Naturally with all parts, I'd say yeah, you'll replace parts. I thought TUUL was a good ammo. I also considered that "If I shoot steel & need to change parts, I'll probably save enough money to get new barrels & parts before I catch up to the price of brass." Balancing things out in favor of steel.

 

Is the Bushmaster considered a good AR-15 company to you guys? I heard they made or bought the rights to the Masada ACR (which is an alternative to the AR-15 I was looking at.)

It seems to have handled the different ammos pretty well for the most part.

 

My cousin also said that the AR-15 he has is less desirable to shoot because of how many parts you need to clean on it. Especially with the gasses and carbon thrown back into the receiver by the gas system. Anyone have thoughts on short stroke gas pistons vs direct gas impingement? (HK 416 system vs M16 system)

Inrange TV showed that the gas impingement is more reliable in the mud test & less recoil, but the short stroke gas piston keep the gun cleaner in the receiver.

Or am I overthinking this & it's not that big of a deal?

 

 

 

 

 

I shot my AK with Wolf for the first time today & the bullets just went EVERYWHERE.... (100 yards/meters.)

 

900 more rounds of disappointment before I can use something better. It was also hot today; coulda deteriorated the performance of the rifle. After like 40 rounds the barrel was scorching hot & I accidentally burned myself. After 60 I felt the heat through the wooden hand guard. When I shot tuul in like January/February, it was only getting hot ish at like 100~150. No snow though.

 

Idk if my spotters sucked or the ammo just couldn't hit the target. First like 5 I shot they went to upper left or right & second 5 my brother shot & they were the other upper corner. Semi-decent group but I wouldn't think the gun to be like missing the target or something in less than 100 rounds in under an hour. (We just finished shooting the 100 between 3 guys as the hourly cease fire was called.)

 

I might need a spotter's scope. I didn't mess with the sights, but they're dead on across my house-maybe 35 feet or so. I have that laser you put down the barrel. A PSO might be cool, but idk... the AK is adopted originally as an SMG with rifle rounds so 50 metres was probably the expected average engagement range as a lot of countries in WW2 noticed "You can't really see that far with natural landscapes & towns, so why are we ranging guns so far? Let's all adopt SMGs."

 

The wolf ammo seems like it was also the dirtiest of the 3 ammo I shot thus far. It has been a while since I've been to the range however, so I could be remembering incorrectly & forgetting that the AK just gets super dirty no matter how much you shoot.

I might have to shoot the gun on my own time to check wolf's performance consistency. The American Eagle brass case was decent the one time I shot it but it was like 30 bucks for 20 bullets at the range. Super overpriced imo. Prolly markup-if the gun store I like didn't price hike, then I might ask what would be better AK ammo than Wolf after I test it out a bit more.

[Nine Tailed Fox]

♫I got a bulletproof heart you got a armor piercing smile

[Crunchy Dragon]

Benelli M3 for home defense shotgun, yay or nay?

[atxcyclist]

2 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Benelli M3 for home defense shotgun, yay or nay?

Benelli is quality, but dual-mode pump/semi shotguns have always seemed odd for a consumer. They make sense for law enforcement where "less lethal" shells might be used at times, but for home defense I'd go for something a bit less exotic. Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 are both good pumps, I haven't messed with a 590 or an 1100/11-87 semi-auto much, but they're also good if you maintain them. If you want it purely for home defense, something like a used Winchester 1200 or 1300 are ubiquitous and every pawn shop with an FFL has one. The modern version the SP3 is good from what I hear, the rotary bolt in the 1200/1300/SXP is fast and nearly impossible to jam up with dust or old oil if it sits in a closet for a decade.

Edit: The SXP Defender is also unbelievably cheap.

 

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/winchester-sxp-defender-pump-action-shotgun

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Benelli M3 for home defense shotgun, yay or nay?

Yes. Don’t use birdshot though. Buckshot or slugs. 

 

Ive seen shooting videos of people being shot point blank by birdshot & walking away. 

 

Btw, slugs aren’t fun to shoot. 

 

As atx yclist said, a pump is much cheaper. Mossberg’s 12 gauge shotguns are 2~400. M3 Are like ... a lot more. 

If you want an M3 or have one, it’s better than a pump. 

[Crunchy Dragon]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

Yes. Don’t use birdshot though. Buckshot or slugs. 

 

Ive seen shooting videos of people being shot point blank by birdshot & walking away. 

 

Btw, slugs aren’t fun to shoot.

Good to know. I've heard birdshot recommended because it doesn't go through walls super well, is buckshot similar at all?

 

7 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

Benelli is quality, but dual-mode pump/semi shotguns have always seemed odd for a consumer. They make sense for law enforcement where "less lethal" shells might be used at times, but for home defense I'd go for something a bit less exotic. Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 are both good pumps, I haven't messed with a 590 or an 1100/11-87 semi-auto much, but they're also good if you maintain them. If you want it purely for home defense, something like a used Winchester 1200 or 1300 are ubiquitous and every pawn shop with an FFL has one. The modern version the SP3 is good from what I hear, the rotary bolt in the 1200/1300/SXP is fast and nearly impossible to jam up with dust or old oil if it sits in a closet for a decade.

Edit: The SXP Defender is also unbelievably cheap.

 

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/winchester-sxp-defender-pump-action-shotgun

I am aiming mostly for home defense(teehee).

[Rybo]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

Yes. Don’t use birdshot though. Buckshot or slugs. 

 

Ive seen shooting videos of people being shot point blank by birdshot & walking away. 

 

Btw, slugs aren’t fun to shoot. 

 

As atx yclist said, a pump is much cheaper. Mossberg’s 12 gauge shotguns are 2~400. M3 Are like ... a lot more. 

If you want an M3 or have one, it’s better than a pump. 

#4 buckshot, specifically, if you're in a densely populated area.  Apparently larger shot starts to have problems with overpenetration.  

I'll second "slugs aren't fun to shoot."  They teach you real quick if your push-pull technique is working, though.  Mine does not.  I have a sore shoulder after every time I shoot.  Bleh.  

 

Honestly, I think maintaining tension is a problem I have with guns in general.  I always have a fairly relaxed grip on guns.  Wreaks havoc on my consistency and recoil management with handguns and it makes long guns just a little more painful to operate.  

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Good to know. I've heard birdshot recommended because it doesn't go through walls super well, is buckshot similar at all?

One of the 4 rules of firearm safety is know your target & what’s behind it. 

So never expect a projectile to be stopped by anything. 

 

The 4 rules are basically don’t be an idiot. The other 3 are:

Dont point your gun at anything you don’t want to destroy.

treat all guns as if they’re loaded.

finger off the trigger until you’re ready to shoot. 

 

@Rybo linked video by Paul Harrell. I love his video presentations. They’re very informative. 

 

I don’t know the shotgun load specifics. Just that there exists birdshot which is tiny bbs, buckshot is like 8 ball bearing Looking things, one type of buckshot is “double aught” (00), there are 2 types of slugs. One slug is smooth. You can shoot it out of any shotgun barrel. Another has rifling on the slug & you shouldn’t shoot it out of a rifled shotgun barrel. 

I got some slugs for home defense as it’s all that was in stock & I shoot trap/skeet with whatever birdshot that’s 12 gauge. 

 

Theres a guy called thunder ranch, he has some snippets on YouTube, but he trains police & military including LA SWAT. He has some videos you can buy from his website. I think he has one about shotguns for home defense. 

First thing he’ll probably say is “if you don’t have a fire extinguisher next to your bed, why’d you buy a gun to be safe in your house?” 

[Nine Tailed Fox]

How I feel during this whole acquiring process..

5:23

[Crunchy Dragon]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

finger off the trigger until you’re ready to shoot.

Thanks to memes, I am very familiar with this rule

1 hour ago, fpo said:

One of the 4 rules of firearm safety is know your target & what’s behind it. 

So never expect a projectile to be stopped by anything.

Fair point. I was mostly wondering what I should more or less expect out of certain ammunition, like should I be concerned that if a pellet misses(or worse, I do), would it have any real danger of going into my neighbor's house or something like that?

 

Obviously that would be a valid concern with any firearm, but I would like to find a balance between low wall penetration and high lethality against human targets.

[Rybo]

4 minutes ago, Nine Tailed Fox said:

How I feel during this whole acquiring process..

5:23

Hah!  It's better in some states than others.  I live in Florida and they're pretty good -- 3 day waiting period, federal background check.  If you have your concealed carry, the waiting period is waived.  

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Thanks to memes, I am very familiar with this rule

Fair point. I was mostly wondering what I should more or less expect out of certain ammunition, like should I be concerned that if a pellet misses(or worse, I do), would it have any real danger of going into my neighbor's house or something like that?

 

Obviously that would be a valid concern with any firearm, but I would like to find a balance between low wall penetration and high lethality against human targets.

Yeah, some guys say "there's a lawyer attached to every projectile." Paul Harrel (The video that was linked above) is probably the most thorough & realistic/reasonable guy on youtube.

For instance, he did some accuracy videos for guns & at like 100 metres they all hit the target for both guns & the group was like 5 vs 7 inches. He says something along the lines of "There is a difference, but is it really enough to matter? You be the judge."

Some shotgun videos he did that might be interesting to you:
 

Spoiler

poiler

 

 

 

That second video seems to show that maybe some birdshot in 12 gauge is better than I thought. It probably has something to do with the close ranges. It's not really spreading, & requires almost as much accuracy as when shooting a rifle.
There's also a concept called "Cut shells" where you basically turn birdshot into slugs by cutting the shotgun shell a certain way. idk how well it'd work in a semi or pump though.

 

 

This is the video I talked about where the person got shot square in the chest at point blank with birdshot:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

An article that talks about it:

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/bird-shot-for-self-defense

 

[Crunchy Dragon]

2 hours ago, fpo said:

Yeah, some guys say "there's a lawyer attached to every projectile." Paul Harrel (The video that was linked above) is probably the most thorough & realistic/reasonable guy on youtube.

For instance, he did some accuracy videos for guns & at like 100 metres they all hit the target for both guns & the group was like 5 vs 7 inches. He says something along the lines of "There is a difference, but is it really enough to matter? You be the judge."

Some shotgun videos he did that might be interesting to you:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

poiler

 

 

 

That second video seems to show that maybe some birdshot in 12 gauge is better than I thought. It probably has something to do with the close ranges. It's not really spreading, & requires almost as much accuracy as when shooting a rifle.
There's also a concept called "Cut shells" where you basically turn birdshot into slugs by cutting the shotgun shell a certain way. idk how well it'd work in a semi or pump though.

 

 

This is the video I talked about where the person got shot square in the chest at point blank with birdshot:

  Reveal hidden contents

Spoiler

 

An article that talks about it:

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/bird-shot-for-self-defense

 

Very good stuff, thanks for sharing

I guess I could always head to a relative's house and set up some walls and see what kind of ammunition does what to them if I'm curious.

I've actually also seen that video on a really neat channel called Active Self Protection(he reviews a bunch of videos like that and talks about what can be learned from them and how to apply it in defense situations- pretty good stuff).

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Very good stuff, thanks for sharing

I guess I could always head to a relative's house and set up some walls and see what kind of ammunition does what to them if I'm curious.

Yeah if you’re going to put holes in the wall, make sure they’re not yours lol. 

14 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I've actually also seen that video on a really neat channel called Active Self Protection(he reviews a bunch of videos like that and talks about what can be learned from them and how to apply it in defense situations- pretty good stuff).

Yeah I watch a lot of his videos. Prolly where I first saw that video. 

I linked his article under the video. 

 

I think the other moderator sans varnic said he knows about armed security so he might have better input on birdshot if he’s still following this thread. 

 

I know the rough angles to & from my house to the sparse neighbors so I’m not too worried on over penetration since I know them decently. 

Even then, ricochets exist so you never know where things will end up. 

 

Some active in the 70s/80s special forces said that 10 inches along any plane (wall, floor, ceiling) is a danger for ricochet. But at this point I think I’m over complicating things. 

 

If you live in a high capacity state I think semi-auto rifles are better than shotguns. 

I can’t recommend an AR-15 Because I want to learn more about what initiates the faults & how to avoid them-however most people like it. The mini 14 is another nice rifle. My friend has an AK47, but brings his hi point pistol caliber carbine everywhere he goes in his car. (He’s a bit of a prepper.) 

i don’t think shotguns are bad though. I just like rifles more. 

[Crunchy Dragon]

6 minutes ago, fpo said:

I know the rough angles to & from my house to the sparse neighbors so I’m not too worried on over penetration since I know them decently. 

Even then, ricochets exist so you never know where things will end up.

Yeah, my main concern is that I live in a neighborhood(and have neighbors fairly close on either side of me), so overpenetration is something I want to keep in mind as much as possible. I could always just go the Paul Harrel route and set up a meat target 10-20 feet behind my makeshift house and shoot through it, though...

 

I also know the rough angles, but the close distance concerns me a lot more.

8 minutes ago, fpo said:

I think the other moderator sans varnic said he knows about armed security so he might have better input on birdshot if he’s still following this thread.

Good to know, I probably should ask him as well

8 minutes ago, fpo said:

If you live in a high capacity state I think semi-auto rifles are better than shotguns. 

I can’t recommend an AR-15 Because I want to learn more about what initiates the faults & how to avoid them-however most people like it. The mini 14 is another nice rifle. My friend has an AK47, but brings his hi point pistol caliber carbine everywhere he goes in his car. (He’s a bit of a prepper.) 

i don’t think shotguns are bad though. I just like rifles more. 

We have somewhat narrow hallways, I'd rather maneuver a shotgun around in my house than a rifle. I've handled a Mini 14 before, compared to the last AR I held, I would probably choose an AR over that for home defense mostly due to weight.

[Aimi]

13 minutes ago, fpo said:

high capacity state

Most people call them "normal"

[Guest]

 

Quote

We have somewhat narrow hallways, I'd rather maneuver a shotgun around in my house than a rifle. I've handled a Mini 14 before, compared to the last AR I held, I would probably choose an AR over that for home defense mostly due to weight.

I play a lot of airsoft, and yeah. The M4 ergonomics are very nice. The light rifle & minimal recoil makes it very pleasant. Idk the exact laws on “short barrelled rifles” (SBR) but a compact M4 style gun is very nice for in the house. I’ve cleared tons of airsoft rooms with my airsoft G36 which is comparable to an M4, so it’s definitely doable with a rifle. 

 

Paul Harrell has a video on 10 inch barrel vs 16 vs 20 & the 10 was able to keep up to my perspective a degree where 10 inches of weight are worth losing. 

 

Many people don’t recommend “room clearing” your house as a civilian. But thunder ranch said “screw that, if my grandkids are in the other room, I don’t care, I’m going in.” 

 

Last but not least, everything is up to you. If you want a shotgun, get a shotgun. When I was buying my AK, there was a killer deal where a certain AR-15 would come with a free shotgun AND a free .22 rifle. 

 

I wanted an AK & I love it. I don’t regret passing up that deal for my beloved rifle. 

 

25 minutes ago, Aimi said:

Most people call them "normal"

In the people’s republic of New York, those people are considered crazed gunman terrorists that shouldn’t own guns because they’re sick in the head. It’s glutinous to say you need that much ammo. 10 is the perfect number. That’s why you have 10 fingers. 

/s 

[Trik'Stari]

35 minutes ago, Aimi said:

Most people call them "Free"

 

[Crunchy Dragon]

15 hours ago, fpo said:

I play a lot of airsoft, and yeah. The M4 ergonomics are very nice. The light rifle & minimal recoil makes it very pleasant. Idk the exact laws on “short barrelled rifles” (SBR) but a compact M4 style gun is very nice for in the house. I’ve cleared tons of airsoft rooms with my airsoft G36 which is comparable to an M4, so it’s definitely doable with a rifle.

An AR could probably go straight through one exterior wall and out the other in my house, too. Or in other words, out my exterior wall and through my neighbor's. There's a possibility I'm being very overcautious, but I've got elderly people on one side and a family with young children on the other, soo.....yeah.

 

 

15 hours ago, fpo said:

Many people don’t recommend “room clearing” your house as a civilian. But thunder ranch said “screw that, if my grandkids are in the other room, I don’t care, I’m going in.”

The layout of my house makes it fairly easy to room clear, so I guess I have that going for me. But I can and will sweep the entire house if my family is in danger.

 

15 hours ago, fpo said:

Last but not least, everything is up to you. If you want a shotgun, get a shotgun. When I was buying my AK, there was a killer deal where a certain AR-15 would come with a free shotgun AND a free .22 rifle. 

 

I wanted an AK & I love it. I don’t regret passing up that deal for my beloved rifle.

Now that's a neat scenario in which I would probably have walked away with 4 guns instead of 1

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

An AR could probably go straight through one exterior wall and out the other in my house, too. Or in other words, out my exterior wall and through my neighbor's. There's a possibility I'm being very overcautious, but I've got elderly people on one side

If you’re lucky they’ll be sleeping by the time someone breaks in. 

1 minute ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

and a family with young children on the other, soo.....yeah.

They’re more likely to have a play date, sleep over or go to bed early for a school night. 

1 minute ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

 

The layout of my house makes it fairly easy to room clear, so I guess I have that going for me. But I can and will sweep the entire house if my family is in danger.

Worst comes to worst, get some security cameras and play rainbow six siege. 

1 minute ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Now that's a neat scenario in which I would probably have walked away with 4 guns instead of 1

I only reasonably had 1,000$. 

The AR-15 would have been smarter, but the AK47 has a bayonet. 

Maybe I should’ve made it work haha. 

[Crunchy Dragon]

Just now, fpo said:

If you’re lucky they’ll be sleeping by the time someone breaks in. 

They’re more likely to have a play date, sleep over or go to bed early for a school night. 

Worst comes to worst, get some security cameras and play rainbow six siege. 

I only reasonably had 1,000$. 

The AR-15 would have been smarter, but the AK47 has a bayonet. 

Maybe I should’ve made it work haha. 

All fair points. What I should do is just get a portal gun so I can pop up on one side of the house whenever I want.

[Real_PhillBert]

16 hours ago, fpo said:

 

I play a lot of airsoft, and yeah. The M4 ergonomics are very nice. The light rifle & minimal recoil makes it very pleasant. Idk the exact laws on “short barrelled rifles” (SBR) but a compact M4 style gun is very nice for in the house. I’ve cleared tons of airsoft rooms with my airsoft G36 which is comparable to an M4, so it’s definitely doable with a rifle. 

 

Paul Harrell has a video on 10 inch barrel vs 16 vs 20 & the 10 was able to keep up to my perspective a degree where 10 inches of weight are worth losing. 

I have two SBRs, a 10.5" and I'm building a 12" right now, the NFA process is fairly easy (not that I'm happy about it), and with the Efile option on Form 1s, I got my 12" SBR approval in 28 days. Which is a ton better than paper Form 4s right now that are between ten and fourteen months.

 

IMHO SBRs make the most sense with suppressors. A 16" gun can pretty well do anything, but once you put a can on one it get's pretty long. And a 20" rifle with a can becomes fairly musketish. 

 

As for SBR capability, as long as you have more than 1 revolution of rifling the quality of the barrel makes a much much larger difference in accuracy than the length. Most .223 ARs are between 1:7 and 1:9 so anything ~10" and up can be a very accurate rifle. Although going down below about 10.5" yields a rather sharp drop off in velocity, so it's generally accepted that if you want to use the gun for any practical purposes other than giggles, 10.5" is about as short as you want to go with .223/5.56. 

 

EDIT: 12" SBR build progess because everyone likes pictures: