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The1Dickens

Xbox Series X

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The new controller is slightly smaller than the current one. The tower design is likely amazing for airflow and cooling and extremely cheap to build to help keep costs down most likely. Doing somethign fancy with the design would have increased a lot of manufacturign costs and they want to aim this likely at the $450-$500 range at most.

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1 minute ago, AdmiralMeowmix said:

The new controller is slightly smaller than the current one. The tower design is likely amazing for airflow and cooling and extremely cheap to build to help keep costs down most likely. Doing somethign fancy with the design would have increased a lot of manufacturign costs and they want to aim this likely at the $450-$500 range at most.

Chimney designs like that often require multiple pcbs though.  Drives costs back up.  Likely they did something clever.  Or it’s disinformation.  We get to find out eventually.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
15 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Chimney designs like that often require multiple pcbs though.  Drives costs back up.

Depends. Sometimes, the cheaper route is more PCBs.

16 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 Likely they did something clever.

I wonder if they stacked them up like: | | | with a large, slow spinning fan on the bottom, just enough to have the minimal airflow. Instead of the traditional 'L' or '=' layout.

18 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Or it’s disinformation.

Crap. This could be it, too. Then, I'll be a sad panda, because I actually like this design.


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1 hour ago, SkilledRebuilds said:

I'm guessing the "Hardware Accelerated Raytracing" Is like Neon Noirs "Hardware rendered" RT.

 

And such "Software based HWCompute Engine 30-60fps Dynamic RT"

 

Still Hardware driven, accelerated, but not dedicated RT fixed hardware like people think...?

Isn’t RDNA2 supposed to have dedicated RT hardware?

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12 hours ago, JZStudios said:

...and how are console games not an open free market, compared to publisher exclusivity and the vast majority of games being available only on Steam?

To be fair, if literally any game can run at full 4k they can market it as playing games in full 4k.

I can buy games not from steam, that work on Steam

I can buy games without DRM and can launch without a platform launcher

 

Their "4k" games are upscaled to 4k. Thats not true 4k. And all the crowd pullers dont even run upscaled 4k

You need a sanity check


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2 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Their "4k" games are upscaled to 4k. Thats not true 4k. And all the crowd pullers dont even run upscaled 4k

You need a sanity check

People need to stop repeating this bullshit statement. Yes, games run at true 4K on both the X and Pro. Not all of them, but several do. This whole "none of them run at 4K" is and has always been completely false. And no, not all of them are upscaled or checkerboarded. All it takes is like five seconds of research people.

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11 hours ago, Waffles13 said:

I assume it may require a significant change in how game assets are packaged, but I'd assume that at least in theory games should be a textbook case of what SSDs/NVME is built for - huge numbers of relatively small individual assets. 

 

I assume that most modern games bundle those assets together in ways to make it more "sequential" to load all assets for a given level/area, but once devs have time to adapt to an all-NAND world, perhaps that'll all change. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Or maybe I'm talking totally out of my ass. If there are any game devs in this thread, I'd be curious to know how far off I am with regards to how game assets are packaged currently. 

Edit: Or maybe, given the current trends in the industry, it'll just get devs an excuse to do even less optimization and ship more 100+GB games with uncompressed everything. 

In before the DRM grinds the SSD to a halt and it's slower than tape loaders. XD

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19 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Both Sony and Nintendo have actually ended up where MS is, though that's more to do with the former giving up in-house silicon design. 

I mean Nintendo is an android tablet, not a PC, but yeah.


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11 hours ago, AdmiralMeowmix said:

The new controller is slightly smaller than the current one. The tower design is likely amazing for airflow and cooling and extremely cheap to build to help keep costs down most likely. Doing somethign fancy with the design would have increased a lot of manufacturign costs and they want to aim this likely at the $450-$500 range at most.

That design didn't work too well for the Apple trash can. Also considering it's tall as hell and most people will have to put it sideways I'm still thinking it would've been better to do like the One S and just have vent holes on top like literally every other media device.

 

11 hours ago, huilun02 said:

I can buy games not from steam, that work on Steam

I can buy games without DRM and can launch without a platform launcher

 

Their "4k" games are upscaled to 4k. Thats not true 4k. And all the crowd pullers dont even run upscaled 4k

You need a sanity check

Steam launches games not on Steam, it doesn't "work" on Steam. And anything EA is limited to Origin, although I think they started selling stuff on Steam again because no one was buying their shit. Activision has it's own launcher, Bethesda has it's own launcher, Ubisoft has it's own launcher, Rockstar has it's own launcher. Most of those force you to buy from their specific game store because they don't sell anywhere else. And even if you did launch it with Steam, it would still have to launch that launcher, and Steam doesn't give any information or stat tracking.

Steam games ALL have DRM, be they Denuvo or Steam DRM. I never said you needed a launcher to launch GOG games. Ironically, GOG and Epic are the only reliable source of getting games DRM free, and everyone hates them because they aren't the asstastic Steam.

 

Compare that to console games where you can buy physical and digital, from multiple sources. I'm not limited to Gamestop to buy Call of Duty. I can go to Amazon, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, a used book store, Costco, PSN or XBL. There's significantly more choices than the literal one, that is either Steam or whatever publisher store. And the best part is, you don't need 15 launchers.

 

And there's plenty of games on One X that run at true 4k, we've already discussed that.

How about you get your facts straight?

6 hours ago, TechyBen said:

In before the DRM grinds the SSD to a halt and it's slower than tape loaders. XD

I don't know how much DRM console games have... Another benefit.

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I can see why they used this design. Cooling hifi component shaped device with blower fans is difficult and often noisy. Where this design, you can literally stick 120mm or 140mm fan on both sides and ventilate air through. Since it'll be custom design, there won't be excess cables or obstructions like in off the shelf components used in stuff like Corsair One and the likes and you can really pump a lot of power and cool it efficiently. And with 4K, they'll need a lot of it.

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1 minute ago, RejZoR said:

I can see why they used this design. Cooling hifi component shaped device with blower fans is difficult and often noisy. Where this design, you can literally stick 120mm or 140mm fan on both sides and ventilate air through. Since it'll be custom design, there won't be excess cables or obstructions like in off the shelf components used in stuff like Corsair One and the likes and you can really pump a lot of power and cool it efficiently. And with 4K, they'll need a lot of it.

If they’re even going to use it.  Still rumors.


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4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

If they’re even going to use it.  Still rumors.

Rumor? The photo/video is on news.xbox.com. Last time I checked, that's actual official Xbox webpage... Why would they post a rumored or highly conceptual design? At least they don't obviously state it's just a concept...

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2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Rumor? The photo/video is on news.xbox.com. Last time I checked, that's actual official Xbox webpage... Why would they post a rumored or highly conceptual design? At least they don't obviously state it's just a concept...

So not rumor then.  Still, I’m not going to do any chicken counting.


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On 12/13/2019 at 5:59 AM, porina said:

Different expectations of what 4k means. A hypothetical Pong running at 4k is going to be very different from a modern AAA title running at 4k60 without upscaling tricks. So look at it more in the sense of a quality expectation rather than run at 4k at all.

RDR2 is one of the games that runs at native 4K 30 FPS on Xbox One X. So yeah, basically Pong. 


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39 minutes ago, melete said:

RDR2 is one of the games that runs at native 4K 30 FPS on Xbox One X. So yeah, basically Pong. 

Yeah... but... but... the PC version has a few higher res textures and draw distance! Look!

 

Oh... shit, it kind of doesn't really. But you can still play it in 60fps!

 

But y'know what though, maybe with all this 4k power consoles can finally get some god damn anisotropic filtering. Holy shit, why is that even still not a thing on consoles?

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1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

Steam games ALL have DRM, be they Denuvo or Steam DRM. I never said you needed a launcher to launch GOG games. Ironically, GOG and Epic are the only reliable source of getting games DRM free, and everyone hates them because they aren't the asstastic Steam.

Get your facts straight.

 

Games on Epic store can have DRM, but also can not have it, it's up to the developer to decide. You do need the launcher to download it tho.

 

It's exactly the same with Steam, you do need steam to download games. But it's totally up to the game developer to have DRM or not. Steam just have a built in DRM that many developers choose to use by their free will because it's easy for them. There are quite a few games on steam that you don't need steam at all after you downloaded it, you can just drag the game files out of the steam folder and start it up when no part of steam is running. I have personally tested it. 

 

GOG is the only one that not having DRM is a requirement for games to be on it. Also the only one that you can download games without the launcher.


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1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

That design didn't work too well for the Apple trash can. Also considering it's tall as hell and most people will have to put it sideways I'm still thinking it would've been better to do like the One S and just have vent holes on top like literally every other media device.

 

Steam launches games not on Steam, it doesn't "work" on Steam. And anything EA is limited to Origin, although I think they started selling stuff on Steam again because no one was buying their shit. Activision has it's own launcher, Bethesda has it's own launcher, Ubisoft has it's own launcher, Rockstar has it's own launcher. Most of those force you to buy from their specific game store because they don't sell anywhere else. And even if you did launch it with Steam, it would still have to launch that launcher, and Steam doesn't give any information or stat tracking.

Steam games ALL have DRM, be they Denuvo or Steam DRM. I never said you needed a launcher to launch GOG games. Ironically, GOG and Epic are the only reliable source of getting games DRM free, and everyone hates them because they aren't the asstastic Steam.

 

Compare that to console games where you can buy physical and digital, from multiple sources. I'm not limited to Gamestop to buy Call of Duty. I can go to Amazon, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, a used book store, Costco, PSN or XBL. There's significantly more choices than the literal one, that is either Steam or whatever publisher store. And the best part is, you don't need 15 launchers.

 

And there's plenty of games on One X that run at true 4k, we've already discussed that.

How about you get your facts straight?

I don't know how much DRM console games have... Another benefit.

Apples trash can was partly because it was also cylindrical, and square/flat pcbs don't go well into that. My Fortress mini was fine when not chocked, and IIRC the Corsair is fine too.

 

"I can buy anywhere", nope, not if a PS4/Sony/Microsoft/Download only "exclusive". If a game company decides to go exclusive, it's down to the publishers or the games company (for selling their "soul"). Sorry, both platforms have the same problem! (I have multiple games that have Steam AND non-client DRM free downloads available, I only load up the steam version to connect to steam friends in game).

 

I'm guessing that Microsoft are doing it this way to try and force people to put it *outside* the cabinet, for better airflow (this is assuming a rear intake as well as underneath). As pushing 4k and raytracing that thing is gonna get HOT.

 

Quote

I don't know how much DRM console games have... Another benefit.

Hahahahahahaha. Yes, come back to me when your Nintendo dies and so you lose all your downloaded games and saves because "seamless DRM don't affect consoles". ;)

 

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14 hours ago, S w a t s o n said:

Looks like the modem/gateway my ISP gives out, except mine is white:

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4582-011-1000x750.jpg

I dont have a picture of it but even the ventilation grid on top is the same

Vertical Boxes are a great way to manage heat in a product. As a friend pointed out, it looks like the Engineers won the design argument this generation. (You'll also be able to lay it on the side and it'll work just fine.)

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9 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Vertical Boxes are a great way to manage heat in a product. As a friend pointed out, it looks like the Engineers won the design argument this generation. (You'll also be able to lay it on the side and it'll work just fine.)

If that is the case then it’s not a chimney.  It just looks like one.  The whole point of a chimney design is to work off air convection and be fanless.  Something the trash can Mac failed at and needed a fan for anyway.  They could get away with a single big one though.  I suspect the thing is going to be quiet.

 

im waiting now for something to go on sale so someone can buy one and tear it apart.  I want to know about that GPU.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

If that is the case then it’s not a chimney.  It just looks like one.  The whole point of a chimney design is to work off air convection and be fanless.  Something the trash can Mac failed at and needed a fan for anyway.  They could get away with a single big one though.  I suspect the thing is going to be quiet.

 

im waiting now for something to go on sale so someone can buy one and tear it apart.  I want to know about that GPU.

Chimneys work with or without a fan, but his is a general consumer product. It'll have a fan regardless. However, it'll have some sort of heavy pass-through airflow. Likely over the PSU at the bottom and exhausting out the top. That way it'll still work when laying on its  side and within a cabinet. 

 

We'll get deep technical details about the GPU before long. The Zen2 CPU will eat up about 150mm2 of die space in monolithic layout, so everything after that is GPU.

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39 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Chimneys work with or without a fan, but his is a general consumer product. It'll have a fan regardless. However, it'll have some sort of heavy pass-through airflow. Likely over the PSU at the bottom and exhausting out the top. That way it'll still work when laying on its  side and within a cabinet. 

 

We'll get deep technical details about the GPU before long. The Zen2 CPU will eat up about 150mm2 of die space in monolithic layout, so everything after that is GPU.

Well sure they work, I’m just saying that if it’s got a fan it’s not a chimney unless it doesn’t actually need it.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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