Is mainland Africa an island?

[minibois]

PLEASE SHARE YOUR REASONING FOR ANSWERING THE WAY YOU DO BELOW!

 

Is this piece of Africa an island?

 

Information, context and my opinion in a spoiler, to not affect anyone's opinion:

Spoiler

Was watching a quiz with some people when the question "what is the largest island in the continent of Africa?" came up. Of course people answered Madagascar. I answered the mainland of the continent (what is encircled in the picture) was the largest island.

 

Of course they started disagreeing, after which I looked up the definition of an island. I'll first list off all the definitions and tackle all reasons mainland Africa fits these requirements/restrictions.

 

Oxford Dictionary (which is what Google shows when searching for "Island definition"):

Quote

a piece of land that is completely surrounded by water

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/island?q=island

 

Merriam-Webster

Quote

a tract of land surrounded by water and smaller than a continent

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/island

 

Dutch dictionary "Van Dale":

Quote

aan alle zijden door water omringd land

Translated: "[a piece of] land encircled by water on all sides"

https://www.vandale.nl/gratis-woordenboek/nederlands/betekenis/eiland

 

Looking at all these definitions, mainland Africa is an island.

 

Let's first look at the simple requirements:

"Land": 'Land' is used here as a piece of the earth that is not sea/water. It certainly is not water/sea.

 

"Smaller than a continent": Africa the continent is the mainland we're talking about here and Madagascar (and some smaller island along the coast which are irrelevant to this argument now). Those two islands together is larger than the mainland we're talking about, thus this requirement is met.

 

"Surrounded by water": it is certainly surrounded by water. Going clockwise from the left: Atlantic Ocean, Mediteranean Sea, Suez Channel, Gulf of Suez, Red Sea, Gulf of Aden, Arabian Sea, Indian Ocean and back to the Atalantic. 

That certainly completely encircles it. 

The Suez channel is probably the part people argue the most about. The main two things I have heard about this is:

1. It is man-made and not natural

2. You can reach mainland Africa by car here

3. it's too narrow

 

All three are quite irrelevant to the definitions shown above and thus irrelevant arbitrary rules people made up. I understand language is not an exact science, but rather definitions people agreed to use, but judging its island status by some pretty reputable sources, it most certainly is an island.

 

P.S. Australia is also an island, because similar reasons. (Encircled by water, and smaller than a continent (Oceania))

By these definitions, Antarctica is technically an island (since the small islands around it make it so the continent is larger than the main island, but these are not as clear of another part of the continent as Madagascar and New Zealand are to Africa and Oceania respectively).. 

 

TL;DR:

Spoiler

"Island" definition:

Quote

"a tract of land surrounded by water and smaller than a continent"

It's completely encircled by water and is smaller than continent (as Africa the continent is this part I'm talking about + Madagascar + some more islands along the coast).

By this definition, it's an island. Australia is too.

Please share your thoughts below and tell me if I just lost my mind or made a point.

[Tristerin]

By all logical definitions each land mass is an Island (how we have decided to define the word we made up, island) so I concur, Africa is a continent but also an island - but their question asked specifically what ISLAND in the continent of Africa is the largest - and that is referencing Africa as a continent, and the merriam webster says it has to be smaller than a continent, so in this specific question the other people were right about Madagascar.

[minibois]

2 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

merriam webster says it has to be smaller than a continent, so in this specific question the other people were right about Madagascar.

My point being though:

Spoiler

Purple = continent, Red = island:

Each red encircled piece is smaller than the purple encircle pieces (as the purple piece consists of both red pieces + more islands around it)

Quote

Africa is a continent but also an island

So you're saying Madagascar is not part of Africa the continent? Or are you saying "Everything is an island, because everything is connected if you go deep in the sea enough"?

[wasab]

Yeah, Africa is an island because suez canal cuts it off from the Middle East and rest of Eurasia. 

 

Australia however isn't an island because it is a continent. You may ask but Africa is a continent too! Well, you are wrong. Africa is not a continent because it was not "discovered" by Europeans. 

 

That is all. 

 

[minibois]

2 minutes ago, wasab said:

Yeah, Africa is an island because suez canal cuts it off from the Middle East and rest of Eurasia. 

 

Australia however isn't an island because it is a continent. You may ask but Africa is a continent too! Well, you are wrong. Africa is not a continent because it was not "discovered" by Europeans. 

 

That is all. 

If Australia is a continent.. What continent is New Zealand part of?
Unless this is some shitty troll comment, judging by the latter part of your post.

[Tristerin]

4 minutes ago, minibois said:

My point being though:

  Reveal hidden contents

Purple = continent, Red = island:

Each red encircled piece is smaller than the purple encircle pieces (as the purple piece consists of both red pieces + more islands around it)

So you're saying Madagascar is not part of Africa the continent? Or are you saying "Everything is an island, because everything is connected if you go deep in the sea enough"?

Simply enough - people laid claim to that other island and called it apart ofAfrica, as well (would be my reasoning) and currently no one is willing to fight them for it - doesn't mean it has to make sense.  I mean people genuflect to a being and live their lives associated to that feeling of need for a spiritual "why" (just as much as people cling to a "secular" why - governments etc)

 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

11 minutes ago, minibois said:

"Surrounded by water": it is certainly surrounded by water. Going clockwise from the left: Atlantic Ocean, Mediteranean Sea, Suez Channel

 

Well, by your own standards it wouldn't be, since even pushing it to the extremes (i.e., the artificial Suez Channel counts as water) it is not fully surrounded by water (since the channel itself is always closed at some point, thereby connecting both sides of the isthmus).

Sorry, but if the channel counts as "water", then the gates count as "land"  

 

I mean, that's even ignoring everything else...

[minibois]

Just now, Tristerin said:

doesn't mean it has to make sense. 

So you're basically saying people can cherry-pick what definitions they do and do not want to follow and make up shit to make their argument?

If I follow this UN webpage, Madagascar is a part of the continent of Africa:

https://unstats.un.org/unsd/methodology/m49/

 

I'm not sure if I am following you here correctly.

11 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Well, by your own standards it wouldn't be, since even pushing it to the extremes (i.e., the artificial Suez Channel counts as water) it is not fully surrounded by water (since the channel itself is always closed at some point, thereby connecting both sides of the isthmus).

Sorry, but if the channel counts as "water", then the gates count as "land"  

 

I mean, that's even ignoring everything else...

Could you point out to me where the Suez Channel's gates are?

I can see one at 31°13'42.3"N 32°18'08.6"E but that still leaves water to the east of it. 

 

30°02'42.3"N 32°34'26.0"E almost looks like gates, but it's a large bridge.

This video shows footage of the channel from 30°23'40.9"N 32°22'07.4"E and further north:

Don't seem to see any blocking gates..

If there were any, sure that wouldn't make it and island anymore. Gates != water, thus stopping the island. 

 

But please do share any other reasons you don't think it's an island.

[wasab]

7 minutes ago, minibois said:

If Australia is a continent.. What continent is New Zealand part of?
Unless this is some shitty troll comment, judging by the latter part of your post.

Have you ever read scinetific papers by Scientology members at all?

 

It is a micro-contienent that broke off from the rest pangea millions of years ago when the Galatic Overlord Xenu dropped gazillion hydrogen bombs on the planet to wipe off the offending lizards known as the dinosaurs.

 

The land then sank under the sea and then left over radiation mutated several species of passing by dolphins into mermen and mermaids who then built a city call Alantis on this sunken land.

 

Xenu return again however during the 2nd coming and was so offended by these fish people that he fired several shots of his high velocity orbital ion cannon which blasted so much of the soil out of water that it raised New Zealand above the water once again and subsequently killed off all the mermens and mermaids who dried out in the hot Pacific sun. 

 

 

[minibois]

Just now, wasab said:

Have you ever read scinetific papers by Scientology members at all?

 

It is a micro-contienent that broke off from the rest pangea millions of years ago when the Galatic Overlord Xenu dropped gazillion hydrogen bombs on the planet to wipe off the offending lizards known as the dinosaurs.

 

The land then sank under the sea and then left over radiation mutated several species of passing by dolphins into mermen and mermaids who then built a city call Alantis on this sunken land.

 

Xenu return again however during the 2nd coming and was so offended by these fish people that he fired several shots of his high velocity orbital ion cannon which blasted so much of the soil out of water that it raised New Zealand above the water once again and subsequently killed off all the mermens and mermaids who dried out in the hot Pacific sun. 

 

But I don't think talking about Earth millions of years ago is relevant..

[elfensky]

By this logic, Eurasia and the Americas are islands too...

hmm, would "all continents are islands, but not all islands are continents" statement be true? The panama canal exists, after all.

[Tristerin]

13 minutes ago, minibois said:

So you're basically saying people can cherry-pick what definitions they do and do not want to follow and make up shit to make their argument?

If I follow this UN webpage, Madagascar is a part of the continent of Africa:

 

No, Im saying it doesn't have to make sense to you or I.  Africa - is a Island by all definitions, but only because its currently "classified" as a continent, therefore it is "not" an island.  Yes, Madagascar is apart of the Continent of Africa, and why they were correct that it is in fact Madagascar - because the question itself was very specific by calling Africa a Continent, therefore utilizing the MW definition it cannot be also classified as an Island, within this question that was asked.

 

49 minutes ago, minibois said:

Was watching a quiz with some people when the question "what is the largest island in the continent of Africa?" came up. Of course people answered Madagascar. I answered the mainland of the continent (what is encircled in the picture) was the largest island.

Merriam-Webster

  Quote

a tract of land surrounded by water and smaller than a continent

 

[minibois]

2 minutes ago, elfensky said:

By this logic, Eurasia and the Americas are islands too...

They would be, if this definition did not exist:

Quote

a tract of land surrounded by water and smaller than a continent

If we look at 'a continent', as 'the continent this island is a part of'. Eurasia and Americas (assuming you mean North+South) would both not apply, since the landmasses ('islands') would be larger than the continents they are in.

But that is just one of the three definitions, the other two I pointed out in the OP do not have this restrictions and by those definitions, they would be islands.

 

The logic I follow still does not 'trigger' this restriction though.

1 minute ago, Tristerin said:

No, Im saying it doesn't have to make sense to you or I.  Africa - is a Island by all definitions, but only because its currently "classified" as a continent, therefore it is "not" an island.  Yes, Madagascar is apart of the Continent of Africa, and why they were correct that it is in fact Madagascar - because the question itself was very specific by calling Africa a Continent, therefore utilizing the MW definition it cannot be also classified as an Island, within this question that was asked.

Yea, I'm not following you here.

The piece of land I encircled in the OP is part of the continent of Africa. Only a part, as the modern current definitions of the continent of Africa include Madagascar too.

Because Madagascar, that piece of Africa is smaller than the entire continent of Africa. Together with it being encircled by water; it's an island.

 

I get that they called Africa a continent, but if you agree that:

1. Madagascar is part of Africa

2. The Suez Channel make this mainland piece of Africa encircled by water

you would agree that this mainland piece of Africa is in fact (by the three different definitions in the OP) an island.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

37 minutes ago, minibois said:

 

This video shows footage of the channel from 30°23'40.9"N 32°22'07.4"E and further north:

Haven't watched it, but I must have mistaken it with the Panama channel, then.

 

In any case, the answer to your question¹ is that it is impossible for mainland Africa to be an island: by your own sources, the definition of "mainland" is:

 

Quote

a continent or the main part of a continent as distinguished from an offshore island or sometimes from a cape or peninsula

Therefore, mainland Africa is not an island, and any part of Africa that can be considered an island is not mainland. 

 

----

¹I'm talking about the question in the title, of course.: the question as stated in the poll can only be answered as "no" according to your claim that continents and islands cannot coincide, and Africa is a continent.

[TVwazhere]

When I woke up today, at no point did I think "I wonder if there will be discussion on if Africa is a continent or not"

 

Well by this definition, because the Panama canal cuts North and south america, they're both islands too since both incorporate surrounding and/or nearby islands.

 

In all fairness though, "Africa" is a continent. This we can agree on. To call the majority of land mass Africa without Madagascar would be inaccurate. That would be suggesting that "Africa" is a country, which it is not. It's made of of various individual countries scattered about. 

[tankyx]

Africa : Connected to Middle East, not an Island

Australia : Connected to nothing else, is an island

 

/thread

[Tristerin]

23 minutes ago, minibois said:

Yea, I'm not following you here.

The piece of land I encircled in the OP is part of the continent of Africa. Only a part, as the modern current definitions of the continent of Africa include Madagascar too.

Because Madagascar, that piece of Africa is smaller than the entire continent of Africa. Together with it being encircled by water; it's an island.

 

I get that they called Africa a continent, but if you agree that:

1. Madagascar is part of Africa

2. The Suez Channel make this mainland piece of Africa encircled by water

you would agree that this mainland piece of Africa is in fact (by the three different definitions in the OP) an island.

Seems to me that the only problem here is the Merriam Webster version of what we are to define an Island by.  If it didn't mention continent all of this would be moot no?

 

[minibois]

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Haven't watched it, but I must have mistaken it with the Panama channel, then.

Panama channel definitely has gates blocking it completely off, but Suez doesn't seem to be closed off judging by the video and satelite view.

3 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

In any case, the answer to your question is that it is impossible for mainland Africa to be an island: by your own sources, the definition of "mainland" is:

Therefore, mainland Africa is not an island, and any part of Africa that can be considered an island is not mainland. 

Keep in mind I just used 'mainland' as a way to refer to that piece of the continent of Africa I encircled in the OP of this thread. It was not meant to be used as an official term for this piece of the continent. It was just the best way to refer to it.

I am not sure where you are getting that definition is from, or exactly what it discredits from my theory..

 

I am simply saying:

a. that large piece of Africa is encircled by water.

b. (this part is only needed for the Meriam Webster definition) the continent is larger than the continent it is part of.

therefore it's an island.

2 minutes ago, tankyx said:

Africa : Connected to Middle East, not an Island

Where is it connected exactly?

The Suez channel creates a water border, there are no permanent gates as far as I can see, but I would love to be proven wrong with evidence.

6 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

When I woke up today, at no point did I think "I wonder if there will be discussion on if Africa is a continent or not"

Me neither, I am having a discussion about whether or not that large piece of Africa is an island, but I have not received convincing evidence it is not (despite people flocking to the "no" button on question 1).

7 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

Well by this definition, because the Panama canal cuts North and south america, they're both islands too since both incorporate surrounding and/or nearby islands.

Sure.

9 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

In all fairness though, "Africa" is a continent. This we can agree on. To call the majority of land mass Africa without Madagascar would be inaccurate. That would be suggesting that "Africa" is a country, which it is not. It's made of of various individual countries scattered about. 

Quote

a tract of land surrounded by water and smaller than a continent

Definition of an island, according to Meriam Webster.

'a continent' is kind of vague though. Does this mean 'smaller than the continent this island is in' or 'smaller than the smallest continent'. To me the former makes more sense.

So what I said before was 

"this piece I am calling an island is smaller than the entire continent of Africa, since Madagascar is not in this piece that I call an island".

 

No idea why people took that as an invite to go off topic and talk about how Africa isn't a continent or whatever.

2 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Seems to me that the only problem here is the Merriam Webster version of what we are to define an Island by.  If it didn't mention continent all of this would be moot no?

If the Meriam Webster definition didn't exist, the only requirement would be:

"water around land", which this piece of Africa fits the requirement. Of course people would at that point be like 'so if I throw a rock in a puddle, it's now an island, right???'. So you have to set size boundaries. 

[tankyx]

Suez channel is human creation, originally it was connected and would still be connected without us.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

2 minutes ago, minibois said:

Keep in mind I just used 'mainland' as a way to refer to that piece of the continent of Africa I encircled in the OP of this thread. It was not meant to be used as an official term for this piece of the continent.

Why not? After all,

2 minutes ago, minibois said:

It was just the best way to refer to it.

In fact, this is my claim: the part you circled is called "Mainland Africa", and in my view it fits the definition. Since mainland anything cannot be an island, the part you circled can only be an island if it's not mainland. Therefore, the only way to defend it's an island would be to convincingly argue that it doesn't fit in the definition of mainland (after all, this thread is about the dictionary definition of "island").

2 minutes ago, minibois said:

I am not sure where you are getting that definition is from

Merriam-Webster.

 

2 minutes ago, minibois said:

, or exactly what it discredits from my theory..

That is straightforward, as explained above.

 

2 minutes ago, minibois said:

 

I am simply saying:

a. that large piece of Africa is encircled by water.

b. (this part is only needed for the Meriam Webster definition) the continent is larger than the continent it is part of.

therefore it's an island.

I'm simply saying it is "a continent or the main part of a continent", and that it is "distinguished from an offshore island", such as Madagascar. Therefore, it is mainland, mainland Africa in particular, as you correctly stated in the title.

But I'd love to hear arguments on the contrary, if they exist.

 

2 minutes ago, minibois said:

Of course people would at that point be like 'so if I throw a rock in a puddle, it's now an island, right???'. 

Well, that's basically what you are doing in this thread, though  

[TVwazhere]

8 minutes ago, minibois said:

Definition of an island, according to Meriam Webster.

'a continent' is kind of vague though. Does this mean 'smaller than the continent this island is in' or 'smaller than the smallest continent'. To me the former makes more sense.

So what I said before was 

"this piece I am calling an island is smaller than the entire continent of Africa, since Madagascar is not in this piece that I call an island".

But what do you call that majority piece? Calling it "Africa" is inaccurate, since Africa includes Madagascar. You'd need to call it something else.... "Sub-Africa" or something to denote it as different from fro continent. (Though this is confusing because Australia is both a Continent and a Country)

[Flying Sausages]

Africa is not an island. Africa is a city.

 

"What is your city?"

 

"Africa"

[minibois]

Just now, tankyx said:

Suez channel is human creation, originally it was connected and would still be connected without us.

So the definitions are wrong? I get the definitions are arbitrary rules too, but at least those are written down.. I can't guess yours.

Anyways, so anything aided/done by humans can inherently not be an island according to you? Even larger scale example like Dubai's Palm Islands (maybe they should change their name in that case.. sounds like clickbait..)? Or a larger example like the 12th Dutch province Flevoland?

Is there a special name for "pieces of land that are completely surrounded by water, but that is because humans and thus these are not islands"?

 

I am just exploring the options here..

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I'm simply saying it is "a continent or the main part of a continent", and that it is "distinguished from an offshore island", such as Madagascar. Therefore, it is mainland, mainland Africa in particular, as you correctly stated in the title.

Thanks for one of the only serious responses, actually tackling why it wouldn't fall under that definition.

5 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I'm simply saying it is "a continent or the main part of a continent", and that it is "distinguished from an offshore island", such as Madagascar. Therefore, it is mainland, mainland Africa in particular, as you correctly stated in the title.

My English is failing me here, I can't see to connect those two parts of the sentence..

So that definition of 'mainland' is saying "if it is mainland, it can't be an island"?

7 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Well, that's basically what you are doing in this thread, though  

That's kind of the point though:

1. Shows says the largest island of the continent of Africa is Madagascar

2. I disagree, say it's the mainland

3. People disagree with me, saying it's not an island

4. I shovel some stuff together and make a thread.

8 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

But what do you call that majority piece? Calling it "Africa" is inaccurate, since Africa includes Madagascar. You'd need to call it something else.... "Sub-Africa" or something to denote it as different from fro continent. (Though this is confusing because Australia is both a Continent and a Country)

The way I read the definition was:
"If this piece of land you're looking at is larger than a continent, it can't be an island". Part of a continent is not larger than a continent (at least not larger than the continent it is a part of.)

Australia is a continent together with Papua New Guinea, so that way it is a part of a larger whole (or even if you see Australia is a continent to be just the island of Australia, you could argue you have Tasmania and Australia, which are both islands as they form a whole continent together).

I am not calling this part of Africa a 'majority', simply a part of a larger whole.

 

[TVwazhere]

1 minute ago, minibois said:

"If this piece of land you're looking at is larger than a continent, it can't be an island"

You'd have to assume then, that there are pieces of land (islands, peninsulas, landmasses, etc) that by themselves are larger than entire continents. One could argue that the majority of Europe (from France/Spain) to the end of Asia (Rusia, China) as a continuous landmass could be defined as bigger than it's separate continents, however Africa as anything other than a continent does not exist, nor is the majority of the land mass larger than the continent of Africa because you need to include Madagascar in that. 

[minibois]

2 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

You'd have to assume then, that there are pieces of land (islands, peninsulas, landmasses, etc) that by themselves are larger than entire continents. One could argue that the majority of Europe (from France/Spain) to the end of Asia (Rusia, China) as a continuous landmass could be defined as bigger than it's separate continents, however Africa as anything other than a continent does not exist, nor is the majority of the land mass larger than the continent of Africa because you need to include Madagascar in that. 

Europe/Asia as an 'island' is definitely larger than the continent it is in. But for example Iceland, is much smaller than the continent it is in. It is also surrounded by water, thus an island. This is what I am arguing with mainland African being an island.

Either people say the mainland of Africa is connected to the middle east/Asia and thus the 'island' becomes larger than the continent, or you say it is not connected (split off at the Suez channel for example) and it becomes an island. 

 

Really, the only two questions in this thread should be:

- Is the Suez Channel water?? (yes, of course it is)

- (If answered yes to the previous question) Can a mainland be an island??