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Master Disaster

Dr Su will present Zen 2 and Navi at Computex 2019 (May 27th)

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On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 2:31 PM, VegetableStu said:

Vega 64/56 and Vega V2 are technically high end cards ._. considering they don't squeeze that many CUs for the middle stack

Vega cards have dissapeared from shelfs everywhere 🙄 these last couple of months

 

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4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

So the first x86 processor is either than 8086 or 80186. You can have a processor with the x86 instruction set that is also In Order and no Speculative Execution, we just don't do that today.

Just for reference/Information:
The last in order x86 CPU (Series) was the Atom 2000 ones.

For example Intel Atom Z2760

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

As for who did Speculative Execution first, no idea and not really the fussed either. Branch prediction is the area you'll want to be looking at to figure out who did it first but it's likely SPARC or MIPS (RISC).

Yeah, that's what I think as well, though I'd not rule out IBM with their Power Architecture and DEC's Alpha Architecture...

 

 


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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18 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

Vega cards have dissapeared from shelfs everywhere 🙄 these last couple of months

Meaning that they get ready for NAVI. That is not an uncommon thing to do to get rid of old stock before the new one arrives....

 

And I'd expect them to clear the shelves of "old stock"...

 

Also Mindfactory hadn't had a bigger amount of AMD Cards (besides Radeon 7) in their Mindstar in days.
HOWEVER, the regular Price of a Powercolor RX VEGA 56 Red Dragon (with the small PCB) is less than 300€

MSI Blower Card (wich sucks) is 286. An ASUS RX VEGA 64 is in stock for 388€ Gigabyte 360, MSI VEGA64 Reference 389€...

 

So not entirely true...

But Prices look good.

And especially the Powercolor RX VEGA56 seems to be more interesting than an RX590.

 

 


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Meaning that they get ready for NAVI. That is not an uncommon thing to do to get rid of old stock before the new one arrives.

 

 

That might mean that NAVI is rather close.

 

Also Mindfactory hadn't had a bigger amount of AMD Cards (besides Radeon 7) in their Mindstar in days.
HOWEVER, the regular Price of a Powercolor RX VEGA 56 Red Dragon (with the small PCB) is less than 300€

MSI Blower Card (wich sucks) is 286. An ASUS RX VEGA 64 is in stock for 388€ Gigabyte 360, MSI VEGA64 Reference 389€...

 

So not entirely true...

But Prices look good.

And especially the Powercolor RX VEGA56 seems to be more interesting than an RX590.

 

 

can't wait how the new navi cards will deliver in both price range and tpd or tbp …. have saved meself already 500 quid.. got the manufacterer down to either aorus or rog strix… what can go wrong in these next months.. finally i will able to see for myself if developers these days really only do a.i. stuff correct with enough gb's on the card :D 

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On 4/5/2019 at 10:10 AM, RejZoR said:

No they aren't. If we're gonna go that route there are hundreds of CPU companies. They don't make high performance enterprise or even consumer CPU's. Marvell for example makes CPU's for low power stuff like routers, you won't see Marvell chips powering laptops or desktop PC's. I even doubt they have anything for any kind of servers. Would you really call that a CPU vendor? Besides, it's kinda obvious we're talking x86 compatible CPU's here, not all CPU's in general.

Actually there are dozens of no name companies creating custom made ARM CPUs for HPC use now


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Speaking of Navi....

 

https://wccftech.com/rumor-amd-navi-debuting-at-e3-launching-july-7-with-rtx-2080-class-performance/

 

I better hope not! I've just spent £650 on a Radeon VII a month back. Surely this can't be right, can it? $300 with 2080 level performance...if so they've screwed over so many people like me who've just spent the kitchen sink on the flagship AMD GPU knowing that they'd only be coming out with 1080 level performance in June/July.

 

I can't see how this is true, it can't be that good for that price. If this is true, Nvidia's marketshare is in trouble because it is simply that good. I've got a big pinch of salt here like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, MeatFeastMan said:

Speaking of Navi....

 

https://wccftech.com/rumor-amd-navi-debuting-at-e3-launching-july-7-with-rtx-2080-class-performance/

 

I better hope not! I've just spent £650 on a Radeon VII a month back. Surely this can't be right, can it? $300 with 2080 level performance...if so they've screwed over so many people like me who've just spent the kitchen sink on the flagship AMD GPU knowing that they'd only be coming out with 1080 level performance in June/July.

 

I can't see how this is true, it can't be that good for that price. If this is true, Nvidia's marketshare is in trouble because it is simply that good. I've got a big pinch of salt here like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

I'm more inclined to believe 2070 performance (perhaps even lower) for that price. VII is a niche product of failed Instinct cards priced in a way that doesn't make them much money if any. The date sounds plausible though.

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On 4/8/2019 at 11:20 AM, Christiaan21-03 said:

Vega cards have dissapeared from shelfs everywhere 🙄 these last couple of months

 

I was browsing Computer Universe (German online shop) and they still have Vega 64 cards in stock. As well as Radeon VII. Vega 64 starts at 427€ that is still in stock (ASUS Arez). Not that bad imo, it's about the price of GTX 1070Ti. Which I think is slower or around the same performance.

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47 minutes ago, MeatFeastMan said:

if so they've screwed over so many people like me who've just spent the kitchen sink on the flagship

Welcome to the consumer electronics market?

 

The value of your hardware can sharply depreciate on the order of months / years if the competitive environment is not stagnant. 

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45 minutes ago, MeatFeastMan said:

https://wccftech.com/rumor-amd-navi-debuting-at-e3-launching-july-7-with-rtx-2080-class-performance/

Surely this can't be right, can it? $300 with 2080 level performance...

Look at your source website, and then ask yourself that question again :D 


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2 hours ago, MeatFeastMan said:

I better hope not! I've just spent £650 on a Radeon VII a month back.

The thing is, rumors like this were floating around before the launch of the RVII (before we knew the name of it), and they weren't even remotely close on price.  I'm not inclined to believe this any more than I did those rumors.

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2 hours ago, MeatFeastMan said:

Speaking of Navi....

 

https://wccftech.com/rumor-amd-navi-debuting-at-e3-launching-july-7-with-rtx-2080-class-performance/

 

I better hope not! I've just spent £650 on a Radeon VII a month back. Surely this can't be right, can it? $300 with 2080 level performance...if so they've screwed over so many people like me who've just spent the kitchen sink on the flagship AMD GPU knowing that they'd only be coming out with 1080 level performance in June/July.

 

I can't see how this is true, it can't be that good for that price. If this is true, Nvidia's marketshare is in trouble because it is simply that good. I've got a big pinch of salt here like everyone else.

 

If the top SKU is 40CUs like we've seen a few rumors of, it's not going to be faster than a Radeon VII. It'll be uncomfortably close for the Radeon VII price (but you could buy a Navi and resell that Radeon VII, as that thing is going to have a long, long-tail secondary market). However, it's unlikely that the first run of Navi will be faster.

 

There might be a game or two via something like Variable Rate Shaders or whatever they do with the geometry pathway that might end up being a hair faster on the top SKU, but that's an optimization issue.

2 hours ago, Trixanity said:

I'm more inclined to believe 2070 performance (perhaps even lower) for that price. VII is a niche product of failed Instinct cards priced in a way that doesn't make them much money if any. The date sounds plausible though.

Once we have the CU count, we can reasonably project where it's going to land. The top will probably be 2070-class for a chunk less, and a much, much smaller die. Be interesting if they have 10 or 12 Gb models for that level.

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1 hour ago, TVwazhere said:

Look at your source website, and then ask yourself that question again :D 

The Price Point is plausible though.

 

With that AMD could hit two birds with one stone.

a) Piss off Huang, force nVidia to reduce prices, wich tanks their revenue

b) make people angry at nVidia for ripping them off

c) getting a bit of market share.

 

Though the most important part is, besides getting Market Share, as it might take nVidia a while to react, if they do that is...

 

The thing is: Even with a Navi at 300€ with 2070 performance, how many people would really buy it??


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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4 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

The Price Point is plausible though.

 

With that AMD could hit two birds with one stone.

a) Piss off Huang, force nVidia to reduce prices, wich tanks their revenue

b) make people angry at nVidia for ripping them off

c) getting a bit of market share.

 

Though the most important part is, besides getting Market Share, as it might take nVidia a while to react, if they do that is...

 

The thing is: Even with a Navi at 300€ with 2070 performance, how many people would really buy it??

Well it'll definitely increase their marketshare if the 2070 for 300 euros is to be believed. Unfortunately though, unless it reaches that 2080 performance that the article is suggesting, then most people will ignore AMD as usual and get the 2060 and awful 2070 instead. They never learn sadly. :(

 

The amount of people coming on here saying they want suggestions on a 2070 build is just crazy. Nvidia are doing really well to brainwash everyone into buying that disgusting, badly priced gpu.

 

However, on the other hand...the sales will be decent if they are pairing zen2 with it. I think that is clearly AMD's plan here. They know their gpu's aren't selling as well so they are probably gonna bundle it with zen2. Absolutely loads are going to buy zen2 (Including myself) because of the intel shortage at the moment so maybe Navi won't be a sales disaster like previous releases.

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2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

I was browsing Computer Universe (German online shop) and they still have Vega 64 cards in stock. As well as Radeon VII. Vega 64 starts at 427€ that is still in stock (ASUS Arez). Not that bad imo, it's about the price of GTX 1070Ti. Which I think is slower or around the same performance.


Yea I noticed the same in Holland... Still it is meaningfull when one of the more popular stores in South Holland (NL) doesn't have those cards in stock anymore....
Starting to become mildly excited about the 3080

 

41 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

 

The thing is: Even with a Navi at 300€ with 2070 performance, how many people would really buy it??


I guess you would be surprised if it reaches 1080 performance for 300 dollars/euro's at a 150W pricetag 

your almost inclined to say buff these prices up for a bit and show your customer some true value ;) 

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10 hours ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

I guess you would be surprised if it reaches 1080 performance for 300 dollars/euro's at a 150W pricetag 

your almost inclined to say buff these prices up for a bit and show your customer some true value ;) 

No, that's the nVidia side of things.

 

I want performance cheap and not dramatically increased prices.

 

You know, there was a dy, when an nVixia x70 Card was less than 250€??
How much do you pay right now? 400€??


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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20 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, that's the nVidia side of things.

 

I want performance cheap and not dramatically increased prices.

 

You know, there was a dy, when an nVixia x70 Card was less than 250€??
How much do you pay right now? 400€??

GTX 275 launched around $250-270 or so, GTX 285 launched around $370-400 (6 months or so after the GTX 280 launched at $650+), and GTX 295 launched about $500 or so.  Those are the prices I think an x70 Ti, x80 Ti and Titan SHOULD be, IMO.

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4 hours ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

GTX 275 launched around $250-270 or so, GTX 285 launched around $370-400 (6 months or so after the GTX 280 launched at $650+), and GTX 295 launched about $500 or so.  Those are the prices I think an x70 Ti, x80 Ti and Titan SHOULD be, IMO.

I couldn't agree more. 

The GTX400 and 500 series had similar prices as well.

But after the release of Kepler, they dramatically increased prices and people bought it like crazy until now.

 

The sad thing is that there are people defending the prices for whatever reason...


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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On 4/15/2019 at 9:52 PM, MeatFeastMan said:

Speaking of Navi....

 

https://wccftech.com/rumor-amd-navi-debuting-at-e3-launching-july-7-with-rtx-2080-class-performance/

 

I better hope not! I've just spent £650 on a Radeon VII a month back. Surely this can't be right, can it? $300 with 2080 level performance...if so they've screwed over so many people like me who've just spent the kitchen sink on the flagship AMD GPU knowing that they'd only be coming out with 1080 level performance in June/July.

 

I can't see how this is true, it can't be that good for that price. If this is true, Nvidia's marketshare is in trouble because it is simply that good. I've got a big pinch of salt here like everyone else.

 

when AMD launched the Radeon 7 their CTO Mark Papermaster said that they were starting at the high end but there would be more GPU launches throughout the year.

https://www.techpowerup.com/251462/amd-cto-mark-papermaster-confirms-7-nm-lineup-refresh-for-2019

 

So that's a clear indication that view the 2019 lineup as Radeon 7 high end and Navi mid-range, not a Radeon 7 replacement. I wouldn't expect high end Navi until 2020.

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22 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

But after the release of Kepler, they dramatically increased prices and people bought it like crazy until now.

 

The sad thing is that there are people defending the prices for whatever reason...

Yep I keep telling people this. Every generation now Nvidia increases their margins since they want to make shareholders happy and they have enough sheep customers to get away with it.

 

The problem is that long-term this is making pc gaming look less appealing and more elitist. More and more people will decide PC is not worth it and move towards consoles, stadia etc..

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3 minutes ago, Humbug said:

The problem is that long-term this is making pc gaming look less appealing and more elitist. More and more people will decide PC is not worth it and move towards consoles, stadia etc..

That's not the only problem in PC right now.

Gameworks and all that proprietary horse shit in the PC Market is also another thing.

 

That's for example the reason I bought Shadow of the Tomb Raider on PS4 instead of PC, because of the Gameworks shit in the PC Version...

 

People are also complaining more and more about nVidia driver issues.

For example in Tom Clancy's Wildlands, there seem to have been a Bug where RTX Cards crash when open the Inventory...


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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7 minutes ago, Humbug said:

Yep I keep telling people this. Every generation now Nvidia increases their margins since they want to make shareholders happy and they have enough sheep customers to get away with it.

 

The problem is that long-term this is making pc gaming look less appealing and more elitist. More and more people will decide PC is not worth it and move towards consoles, stadia etc..

 

4 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

That's not the only problem in PC right now.

Gameworks and all that proprietary horse shit in the PC Market is also another thing.

 

That's for example the reason I bought Shadow of the Tomb Raider on PS4 instead of PC, because of the Gameworks shit in the PC Version...

 

People are also complaining more and more about nVidia driver issues.

For example in Tom Clancy's Wildlands, there seem to have been a Bug where RTX Cards crash when open the Inventory...

 

Don't fool yourselves, if AMD was in Nvidia's position they would be doing exactly the same thing.   Companies make money when there's money to be made or they face bankruptcy because you can't make money when there's no one buying. 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Don't fool yourselves, if AMD was in Nvidia's position they would be doing exactly the same thing.   Companies make money when there's money to be made or they face bankruptcy because you can't make money when there's no one buying. 

The point is not to say AMD are the good guys and Nvidia are the bad guys. 

 

The point is we want PC gaming to be healthy and sustainable. So far although the overall PC market is in decline, PC gaming is still doing well. But if certain market forces are allowed to proceed unchecked then it will be threatened because there are other ways to game...

 

AMD is also partly responsible for the price escalation because if they had been more  consistently hitting their roadmap/performance/supply targets in the past few years then Nvidia would have had more competition and not been allowed to poison the well.

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5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Don't fool yourselves, if AMD was in Nvidia's position they would be doing exactly the same thing. 

No they wouldn't.

That's something you tell yourself to justify your purchases while there is nothing to back that up.

 

Not every Company is equaly evil, some are more evil - like nVidia - than others...

 

Quote

  Companies make money when there's money to be made or they face bankruptcy because you can't make money when there's no one buying. 

You don't have to be a total dick and toxic to make money...

You can also be a decent company and still make money...

 

 

And as you know, a lower price means more pieces of the product sold vs a higher price wich sells less...

 

 

nVidia ursups competition as hard as they can, for example look at the Geforce Partner Programm.

Or the G-Sync shit, wich has to be them kneejerking something to get the spotlight away from the Competition to be the first...


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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