Irrelevant post

[HayHay]

I had no idea what I was talking about so nvm lol

Edited July 21, 2018 by HayHay
Didn't know what I was talking about, lock if possible

[Fasauceome]

7 minutes ago, HayHay said:

So my friend is going to build his own PC for the first time and he thinks what he's doing is right. I've helped him for most of the build but it's going too far. Somebody please help me explain to him that a 750w psu doesn't work with a 1080Ti + i7 8700k (both oc'd), how his electricity bill will shoot up so much from the gpu I suggested (GTX 1070), and how he doesn't need a god damn 1080Ti for a 1920x1080 75hz monitor... Also the fact that the 1180 comes out first quarter next year (probably) as well as Icy Lake coming out soon. I'm cringing so hard at him but he won't listen to me. Hopefully a thread full of pc building experts can help him understand! ;(

He's not on the forums but I'm sending the link to this post to him once replies start rolling in.

I feel like he's just spending money because he can. It's nice to say you've got the best rig money can buy, but then it's all for naught if you don't go all out. he needs an m.2 raid card, a custom water loop, and full RGB customization. If he's not willing to go through with that, he doesn't deserve the 1080 ti. (also 4k 120Hz monitor or go home).

[jeffmeyer5295]

7 minutes ago, HayHay said:

So my friend is going to build his own PC for the first time and he thinks what he's doing is right. I've helped him for most of the build but it's going too far. Somebody please help me explain to him that a 750w psu doesn't work with a 1080Ti + i7 8700k (both oc'd), how his electricity bill will shoot up so much from the gpu I suggested (GTX 1070), and how he doesn't need a god damn 1080Ti for a 1920x1080 75hz monitor... Also the fact that the 1180 comes out first quarter next year (probably) as well as Icy Lake coming out soon. I'm cringing so hard at him but he won't listen to me. Hopefully a thread full of pc building experts can help him understand! ;(

He's not on the forums but I'm sending the link to this post to him once replies start rolling in.

I mean if he wants to spend the money on getting the better hardware why not? Parts themselves and a PSU wont increase your power bill much, PSU's only pull what they need, they do not pull 100% all the time.

 

Those parts are a bit overkill for 75 fps 1080p gaming but maybe he wants a nicer monitor in the future?

 

I do agree the parts might not be NEEDED but I'd never hold someone back from building a nice PC. I mean sometimes it's just nice to sit back and look at it good luck and great job helping a friend out.

[samcool55]

Well if he wants a 1080ti with an 8700k he can do that. The 750W psu will be fine, you might be fine with a 650W but i wouldn't call it complete overkill.

Power consumption will be higher compared to a 1070 but that's normal, i mean the 1080ti is more powerful than a 1070.

 

The 1920x1080 75Hz monitor is indeed absolutely stupid.

Get at LEAST a 144HZ 1080p monitor, a 1440p 144Hz monitor with G-sync is probably what you want, or 4k60 or an ultrawide

If you want to stick with 1080p 75Hz a 1060 6GB or rx 580 will be more than enough...

 

Waiting is pointless, i mean it's july, if what you say it's true that's still a VERY long time.

Unless we know for sure something is only a few weeks away it makes sense to wait, but in this case, nope.

If he went with a Threadripper build i would say, wait, because TR2 will be launched next month, but that's not the case here so just go for it.

[jeffmeyer5295]

1 minute ago, fasauceome said:

he needs an m.2 raid card, a custom water loop,

This made me laugh a little too hard

[HayHay]

2 minutes ago, jeffmeyer5295 said:

I mean if he wants to spend the money on getting the better hardware why not? Parts themselves and a PSU wont increase your power bill much, PSU's only pull what they need, they do not pull 100% all the time.

 

Those parts are a bit overkill for 75 fps 1080p gaming but maybe he wants a nicer monitor in the future?

 

I do agree the parts might not be NEEDED but I'd never hold someone back from building a nice PC. I mean sometimes it's just nice to sit back and look at it good luck and great job helping a friend out.

He doesn't think he'll upgrade to 4k anytime soon, he's going to stick with dual 1920x1080.

I don't want to stop him from doing that, but with the 1070, it leaves 500$ of his budget left for games and all the rgb in the world! But the 1080Ti won't even be properly cooled because of the case he's going with. It's going to choke and throttle so much. I'm trying to get him to switch to the Meshify C at least but he isn't budging. ;-;

[KarathKasun]

The most sane thing to do is to get a 144hz or 4K monitor.

[jeffmeyer5295]

2 minutes ago, HayHay said:

He doesn't think he'll upgrade to 4k anytime soon, he's going to stick with dual 1920x1080.

I don't want to stop him from doing that, but with the 1070, it leaves 500$ of his budget left for games and all the rgb in the world! But the 1080Ti won't even be properly cooled because of the case he's going with. It's going to choke and throttle so much. I'm trying to get him to switch to the Meshify C at least but he isn't budging. ;-;

Which case is he getting?

 

If your friend doesn't listen when he's being told his 800-900 dollar card will burn up then just let him do it, get some popcorn and some sunglasses and enjoy the chaos.

[Fasauceome]

 

2 minutes ago, HayHay said:

He doesn't think he'll upgrade to 4k anytime soon, he's going to stick with dual 1920x1080.

I don't want to stop him from doing that, but with the 1070, it leaves 500$ of his budget left for games and all the rgb in the world! But the 1080Ti won't even be properly cooled because of the case he's going with. It's going to choke and throttle so much. I'm trying to get him to switch to the Meshify C at least but he isn't budging. ;-;

Ok at first I was memeing but for real, he does have to spend more to get his money's worth. If he's trying to max his budget out with the 1080 ti and disregarding thermals, he's in for a lot of wasted potential.

[WereCatf]

13 minutes ago, HayHay said:

how his electricity bill will shoot up so much from the gpu I suggested (GTX 1070), and how he doesn't need a god damn 1080Ti for a 1920x1080 75hz monitor

Why would the bill just magically jump up? If he was playing at 1080p, with vsync on, the 1080Ti would likely never be running at 100% load and thus it'd never actually draw that much current. I mean, there's this concept of dynamic frequency scaling, which has been around for decades now..

[ZcanKal]

If he won't listen to you, or any of us, then he is a lost cause.

[Spotty]

5 minutes ago, HayHay said:

Somebody please help me explain to him that a 750w psu doesn't work with a 1080Ti + i7 8700k (both oc'd), how his electricity bill will shoot up so much from the gpu I suggested (GTX 1070), and how he doesn't need a god damn 1080Ti for a 1920x1080 75hz monitor

What?

A 750W PSU would definitely work with a 1080ti + 8700k, even overclocked. 1080ti is peak 300W, and 8700k is about 100W. That's 400W. + 25-30W for the rest of the system including SSDs, HDDs, Fans, etc. There's no reason why a 750W PSU wouldn't work. It's not necessary though. A good quality 550W PSU would be sufficient for some moderate overclocking.

Having a 750W won't necessarily hurt anything. His electricity bill won't shoot up from having a 750W as it will only draw what is needed from the wall, not the maximum wattage of the unit.

Maybe he plans on upgrading his monitor later? He may think that there's no point buying a 1440p 144hz monitor with the current system he has since it might not run it, but once he has a more powerful system he might upgrade the monitor?
There could also be other things he wants the card for other than gaming, such as 3D rendering or other GPU accelerated tasks that will benefit from having a more powerful GPU.

[Sernefarian]

Since your friend is running dual 1920x1080 the GPU is going to already be pushing as many pixels as 4k at a frame rate of F_t =(F₁+F₂₎)/2. So since they are already effectively going to be running 4k the 1080Ti actually becomes a reasonable choice. Especially if both monitors stay active during all tasks. If he switched to a 144hz for the gaming montior it MIGHT be that depending on the game he might not be hitting F₁=75FPS AND F₂=144FPS at the same time.

 

With the thermal throttling you mentioned as a near guaranteed it seems like during gaming sessions he'll get thermal throttled on the daily resulting in lower frame rates and lower 1% lows as well.

 

I suggest either the Meshify as you want them to get or finding a case that doubles as a wind tunnel even without the meshing.

[Sernefarian]

This is for a 1080 which draws less than the 1080TI ... millisecond maxes will be higher than the 300W according to a Buildzoid of Actually Hardcore Overclocking video even stock the 1080ti Millisecond maxes above 700W.

 

Power Consumption 1080 Link

 

Across time those above capacity millisecond maxes could decrease the lifetime of your PSU or other components in your build. Average draws are significantly lower than the millisecond maxes with the average for a 1080 being roughly 173 watts stock.

[idiocracy]

I wouldn't go 4k with a 1080ti, i think 1440p is better. As newer more demanding games comes out, at 4k you'd need to lower the settings a bit to maintain a stable playable fps, at 1440p he wouldn't have to worry about that. At 4k rottr runs at about 66fps, that's not a lot of wiggle room.

[WereCatf]

13 minutes ago, Sernefarian said:

Across time those above capacity millisecond maxes could decrease the lifetime of your PSU or other components in your build.

Ever heard of capacitors?

[HayHay]

3 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

Why would the bill just magically jump up? If he was playing at 1080p, with vsync on, the 1080Ti would likely never be running at 100% load and thus it'd never actually draw that much current. I mean, there's this concept of dynamic frequency scaling, which has been around for decades now..

Ah true I forgot about that. My bad. Though let's be honest, if it gets even slightly hot it's going to throttle because of the case + lack of airflow.

[HayHay]

39 minutes ago, Spotty said:

What?

A 750W PSU would definitely work with a 1080ti + 8700k, even overclocked. 1080ti is peak 300W, and 8700k is about 100W. That's 400W. + 25-30W for the rest of the system including SSDs, HDDs, Fans, etc. There's no reason why a 750W PSU wouldn't work. It's not necessary though. A good quality 550W PSU would be sufficient for some moderate overclocking.

Having a 750W won't necessarily hurt anything. His electricity bill won't shoot up from having a 750W as it will only draw what is needed from the wall, not the maximum wattage of the unit.

Maybe he plans on upgrading his monitor later? He may think that there's no point buying a 1440p 144hz monitor with the current system he has since it might not run it, but once he has a more powerful system he might upgrade the monitor?
There could also be other things he wants the card for other than gaming, such as 3D rendering or other GPU accelerated tasks that will benefit from having a more powerful GPU.

It was honestly a tier 4 or something psu on the tier list which was the important part I forgot to mention. He doesn't have any plans to get better monitors tbh. 

Also he doesn't have any other plans for the pc as far as we can see  

I would have made him get a 2700X instead if he wanted to do multi-threaded stuff. He was originally going ryzen but intel is better for gaming

[Spotty]

17 minutes ago, Sernefarian said:

Since your friend is running dual 1920x1080 the GPU is going to already be pushing as many pixels as 4k

Nope. 4k = 4 time the pixels of 1920x1080. 1920x1080 = 2073600 pixels. 3840x2160= 8294400 pixels. Dual 1080p monitors do not 'push as many pixels as 4k'. Dual 1080p is half as many pixels as 4k.
 

18 minutes ago, Sernefarian said:

even stock the 1080ti Millisecond maxes above 700W.

A 1080ti does not, and cannot, draw 700W from the PSU.
A 1080ti has 2x 8pin connectors. Each 8 pin connector delivers up to 150W, and the PCIe lane can deliver up to 75W. That is a total max power draw of 375W.

Quote

A full-sized ×16 graphics card[14] may draw up to 5.5 A at +12V (66 W) and 75 W combined after initialization and software configuration as a "high power device".

Optional connectors add 75 W (6-pin) or 150 W (8-pin) of +12 V power for up to 300 W total (2×75 W + 1×150 W).
There are cards that use two 8-pin connectors, but this has not been standardized yet as of 2018, therefore such cards must not carry the official PCI Express logo. This configuration allows 375 W total (1×75 W + 2×150 W) and will likely be standardized by PCI-SIG with the PCI Express 4.0 standard.
_{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express}

Most cards are bios locked to draw less than that, depends on the manufacturer and card but typically between 300-330W will be the maximum that the bios will allow for the power limit even with overclocking.

Not all manufacturers release the power draw information for their cards, but here it is listed on the EVGA website:

Spoiler

https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=11G-P4-6696-KR

You can increase the power limit beyond that for overclocking, but most cap it at 120%. That will put the 280W cards at around 335W.

@STRMfrmXMN & @Stefan Payne can I get some help explaining that a single 1080ti will not draw 700W from a PSU and that 'a 1080ti won't work with a 750W psu you need to get a 1070 instead' is wrong.

[brob]

59 minutes ago, HayHay said:

So my friend is going to build his own PC for the first time and he thinks what he's doing is right. I've helped him for most of the build but it's going too far. Somebody please help me explain to him that a 750w psu doesn't work with a 1080Ti + i7 8700k (both oc'd), how his electricity bill will shoot up so much from the gpu I suggested (GTX 1070), and how he doesn't need a god damn 1080Ti for a 1920x1080 75hz monitor... Also the fact that the 1180 comes out first quarter next year (probably) as well as Icy Lake coming out soon. I'm cringing so hard at him but he won't listen to me. Hopefully a thread full of pc building experts can help him understand! ;(

He's not on the forums but I'm sending the link to this post to him once replies start rolling in.

 

The only thing I'd worry about when it comes to psu, is that he gets an excellent quality 80+ Gold model.

 

All you can do is provide the advice. If he decides not to take it and is unhappy with the result, he will listen the next time. OTH if he takes your advice and for whatever reason becomes dissatisfied with the system you may lose a friend.

[STRMfrmXMN]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

@STRMfrmXMN & @Stefan Payne can I get some help explaining that a single 1080ti will not draw 700W from a PSU and that 'a 1080ti won't work with a 750W psu you need to get a 1070 instead' is wrong.

I mean, considering 750W is generally the recommended minimum for a dual 1080 Ti system and you could run three GTX 1070s and an 8700K off a 700W PSU, I'm not sure why this is a discussion

[HayHay]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Nope. 4k = 4 time the pixels of 1920x1080. 1920x1080 = 2073600 pixels. 3840x2160= 8294400 pixels. Dual 1080p monitors do not 'push as many pixels as 4k'. Dual 1080p is half as many pixels as 4k.
 

A 1080ti does not, and cannot, draw 700W from the PSU.
A 1080ti has 2x 8pin connectors. Each 8 pin connector delivers up to 150W, and the PCIe lane can deliver up to 75W. That is a total max power draw of 375W.

Most cards are bios locked to draw less than that, depends on the manufacturer and card but typically between 300-330W will be the maximum that the bios will allow for the power limit even with overclocking.

Not all manufacturers release the power draw information for their cards, but here it is listed on the EVGA website:

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=11G-P4-6696-KR

You can increase the power limit beyond that for overclocking, but most cap it at 120%. That will put the 280W cards at around 335W.

@STRMfrmXMN & @Stefan Payne can I get some help explaining that a single 1080ti will not draw 700W from a PSU and that 'a 1080ti won't work with a 750W psu you need to get a 1070 instead' is wrong.

Yeah no I accepted that was my bad, I honestly forgot about gpu limits for drawing power from the psu. I did accept that a few replies ago

[Spotty]

1 minute ago, HayHay said:

It was honestly a tier 4 or something psu on the tier list which was the important part I forgot to mention. He doesn't have any plans to get better monitors tbh. 

Also he doesn't have any other plans for the pc as far as we can see  

I would have made him get a 2700X instead if he wanted to do multi-threaded stuff. He was originally going ryzen but intel is better for gaming

If you have a full parts list of what he is planning to buy (preferably PCPartPicker.com) then we can look at what hardware he is buying and maybe suggest some things that he can swap out, or things that he may not need. Also provide a description of what he will be using the machine for, and what games he will be playing. Will he be streaming as well?

[HayHay]

1 minute ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

I mean, considering 750W is generally the recommended minimum for a dual 1080 Ti system and you could run three GTX 1070s and an 8700K off a 700W PSU, I'm not sure why this is a discussion

I mean the fact that he's using a 75hz monitor with a 1080Ti is kinda overkill, as well as his case choice etc.

Heck, he was originally not going to get any fans cause he forgot about em.

 

I did get him to downgrade to a 1080 at least and he's finally fixing a lot of his mistakes like terrible fans with a low cfm, a chocking case, a terrible psu. 

[HayHay]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

If you have a full parts list of what he is planning to buy (preferably PCPartPicker.com) then we can look at what hardware he is buying and maybe suggest some things that he can swap out, or things that he may not need. Also provide a description of what he will be using the machine for, and what games he will be playing. Will he be streaming as well?

I don't have a pcpartpicker link atm cause I'm out atm, I'll send one as soon as I get home for his old vs new parts 

 

He's going to be using it just for gaming (like OW and rainbow 6 siege) and a couple of others as of now. He won't be streaming at all.