Fifa18, PUBG risk high fine from Dutch Gambling Authority

[Zandvliet]

A couple of weeks ago the news came around that:

Quote

The Dutch Gambling Authority has ruled that some loot boxescan be considered gambling, and has given publishers a deadline of June 20 to remove such elements from their video games.

That deadline is today and apparently Fifa18 and PUBG haven't removed or changed this element from their games. They now risk a fine of millions of euros. 

 

Quote

De spelmakers van Fifa18 en PUBG kunnen nu een miljoenenboete krijgen van de Nederlandse toezichthouder. Die gaat de komende tijd onderzoeken of er daadwerkelijk nog steeds regels worden overtreden. Als dat het geval is, kan een boete worden opgelegd tot 10 procent van de wereldwijde omzet. Dat zou in het geval van EA, het bedrijf achter Fifa18, neerkomen op een boete van meer dan 400 miljoen euro.

 

Translation:

The game makers of Fifa18 and PUBG risk the chance of a multi-million euro fine from the Dutch Gambling  Authority. Who will now investigate if the rules are still violated. If this is the case, a fine can be imposed up to 10% of their global revenue. In the case of EA, the game behind Fifa18, this could be more than 400 million euros. 

Also, Belgium takes this even further..

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De Belgische overheid gaat nog verder in het aanpakken van het fenomeen van de loot boxes. Alle spellen met deze virtuele schatkistjes overtreden volgens de Belgische Kansspelcommissie de wet. Als de spellen niet worden aangepast, kunnen boetes worden opgelegd van maximaal 1,6 miljoen euro en er kan tien jaar gevangenisstraf worden opgelegd.

 

Translation:

The Belgium government goes even further in tackling the phenomenon of lootboxes. All games with these virtual treasureboxes are violating the law, according to the Belgium Gambling Commision. If games are not altered, fines can be imposed of a maximum of 1,6 million euros and a jail sentence up to 10 years.

Though I am not sure who the jail sentence will be for.... developers, CEO?

 

I am curious to see if they change their system with the lootboxes. In my opinion lootboxing is a form of gambling but according to a statement from EA they do not believe this is the case. I guess we all know how it feels when you spend some more money on a game and we do not get what we had hoped for...

Quote

EA: "We zijn ervan overtuigd dat onze games aan wetten van over de hele wereld voldoen. We nemen onze verantwoordelijkheden erg serieus."

 

Translation:

EA: "We are convinced that our games do up hold the laws around the world. We take our responsibilities very seriously."

I think the best way to change the system is to remove it.. but that will probabily not happen. They will likely add statistics to show that the chances are for getting specific items, but my guess that it won't be enough for the Dutch and Belgium government.

 

 

Old source: http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2018/04/21/nga-rules-some-loot-boxes-are-gambling/ 

New source (Dutch only): https://nos.nl/artikel/2237418-gamebedrijven-negeren-deadline-verslavende-schatkistjes-nog-niet-geschrapt.html 

[AlTech]

Yay. I'd love to see EA suffer a multi million dollar fine although admittedly the fine is probably not going to be large enough to matter to them.

[Anult]

Meanwhile, Valve just disabled CSGO and DOTA 2 Steam Marketplace trading for dutch users as a result of this.

 

https://tweakers.net/nieuws/140015/nederlanders-kunnen-niet-meer-handelen-met-items-uit-lootboxes-csgo-en-dota-2.html

 

[Zandvliet]

6 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Yay. I'd love to see EA suffer a multi million dollar fine although admittedly the fine is probably not going to be large enough to matter to them.

i'd guess that depends. If they indeed get a fine of 10% of their annual revenue... that's a big hit I would say.

[AskTJ]

400 million euros for EA? HOLY $H!T. Would like to see this in TechLinked and explained more thoroughly.

 

@CPotter - Possible article to talk about?

[3rrant]

I'm actually very curious about how a law of a very specific country can target a worldwide corporation. EA for example, their annual revenue is generated in countless countries, not just one. How can a country (not even Europe entirely) ask for such a huge fraction of your revenue if it is generated in different countries where lootboxes are not illegal?

 

And if they manage to accept to remove lootboxes for Belgium only anyone could use a VPN to get rid of them or how would they target specific players at all? With the GDPR in particular.

[xAcid9]

My only reaction from this matter. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Zandvliet]

37 minutes ago, ErrantNyles said:

I'm actually very curious about how a law of a very specific country can target a worldwide corporation. EA for example, their annual revenue is generated in countless countries, not just one. How can a country (not even Europe entirely) ask for such a huge fraction of your revenue if it is generated in different countries where lootboxes are not illegal?

 

And if they manage to accept to remove lootboxes for Belgium only anyone could use a VPN to get rid of them or how would they target specific players at all? With the GDPR in particular.

Good question, I have no idea how this works.

[Centurius]

1 hour ago, ErrantNyles said:

I'm actually very curious about how a law of a very specific country can target a worldwide corporation. EA for example, their annual revenue is generated in countless countries, not just one. How can a country (not even Europe entirely) ask for such a huge fraction of your revenue if it is generated in different countries where lootboxes are not illegal?

 

And if they manage to accept to remove lootboxes for Belgium only anyone could use a VPN to get rid of them or how would they target specific players at all? With the GDPR in particular.

Simple, by passing a law. If the company doesn't like it, they don't have to do business in a country. 

[mynameisjuan]

So where does the 400 million euros go? Whose pockets does it go into? 

 

That 400 million should go back to the players. 

 

Also, hah, get fucked PUBG

[samcool55]

3 hours ago, ErrantNyles said:

I'm actually very curious about how a law of a very specific country can target a worldwide corporation. EA for example, their annual revenue is generated in countless countries, not just one. How can a country (not even Europe entirely) ask for such a huge fraction of your revenue if it is generated in different countries where lootboxes are not illegal?

 

And if they manage to accept to remove lootboxes for Belgium only anyone could use a VPN to get rid of them or how would they target specific players at all? With the GDPR in particular.

If your account says you are from belgium, you won't be able to buy lootboxes, doesn't matter if you use a VPN or not. If you say you are from belgium or the netherlands, the correct laws/settings get applied to you. At least that's what should happen.

 

Thing is, it seems like we are forgetting physical sales are still a thing.

What i expect now to happen is that for now Fifa 18 gets pulled from the physical shelves until there's a fix.

[Mihle]

2 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

So where does the 400 million euros go? Whose pockets does it go into? 

 

That 400 million should go back to the players. 

 

Also, hah, get fucked PUBG

Usually it goes to the country that places the fine, but I am not familiar with Dutch law.

[suicidalfranco]

Burns.excellent.jpg

[Centurius]

4 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

So where does the 400 million euros go? Whose pockets does it go into? 

 

That 400 million should go back to the players. 

 

Also, hah, get fucked PUBG

Fines issued by Dutch authorities tend to be redirected into something related to the crime they were issued for. So in this case it'll likely go into treatments for addiction and education.

[dizmo]

I don't see anything coming of this. At most I see them simply ceasing sales of the games in question, or loot boxes in those countries. That's it. In the end, it's only the people who enjoy playing those titles in those countries that get hurt. 

[Zandvliet]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

I don't see anything coming of this. At most I see them simply ceasing sales of the games in question, or loot boxes in those countries. That's it. In the end, it's only the people who enjoy playing those titles in those countries that get hurt. 

This will most likely happen initially, but i doubt EA for example would say: 'Oh we cannot sell games in those countries anymore, too bad... let's move on'.

At some point they will have to change the system. Particularly if more countries set higher standards on lootboxes.

[Cole5]

HAHAHAHAAHHAAHAAH\Oh fuck yes thats good, 

Shame its still a cost of business not a fine. Charge them MORE than they made from the activity, otherwise they are still ahed 

[dizmo]

3 hours ago, Zandvliet said:

This will most likely happen initially, but i doubt EA for example would say: 'Oh we cannot sell games in those countries anymore, too bad... let's move on'.

At some point they will have to change the system. Particularly if more countries set higher standards on lootboxes.

They're tiny countries. They're not going to give up billions of dollars to sell to a combined total of 28 million people. They'll simply back out of those markets. If a country like the US, where they're based made a ruling like that, then it'd be different. 

[maartendc]

Good.

 

As someone posted above, Valve has already disabled transactions on Dota2 ingame items for people in The Netherlands.

 

Valve is acting pathetic in their statement. They are violating the law, period. The fact that they have gotten away with it so far due to flying under the radar doesn't change that.

 

These companies (Valve, EA, and others) have been getting away with making Billions and billions of dollars on predatory practices that prey on weak individuals and children spending real world money for stupid hats and ingame items. The only reason they have been getting away with it is due to ignorance of lawmakers and law enforcement. Good that this is finally changing and people are finally wising up.

 

All ingame items and transactions with real money for said items can all be thrown into a big pile and set on fire for all I care. This has never made any gameplay better for anyone. It is just annoying at best, and malicious and illegal at worst.

[PlayStation 2]

People are cheering this on, and it makes me wonder "Wouldn't the more practical option here be voting with your wallet and not bullshit laws?"

Here's the thing: I don't care for microtransactions in most games, and I completely understand why most people absolutely hate it. But here's the thing; prove it's unpopular rather than caving in or letting a government intervene with dire consequences by voting with your wallet.

Bitching about it on an internet forum solves absolutely nothing.