AMD GPU might get their own gaming brand under GPP

[pas008]

43 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

When dealing with anti competitive practices, such as extorting third party partners into making established, and well recieved brands exclusive, it is the consumer's business.

 

1. Those are lower tier cards (that aren't gaming branded) which aren't and weren't affected by GPP.
2. Every tier had both AMD and Nvidia options prior to GPP. Now, that'd not exactly the case.

lol anti competitive how they are restricting or stopping amd products from being sold?

they simply are offering quid pro quo but you can call it extorting hahahaha

[Blademaster91]

24 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I actually like the look of that box and the branding style of it.

 

All of them should be like that with the bottom section having the logo on how advanced the version of the card is in that brand's product stack and if you are going to use something like Aorus limit that to a single product for each model only. That way you can easily show off your very best card, Aorus/ROG etc, while maintaining clear consistency.

I think it's the best way to show what most important features a card has rather than everything on the back on the box.

But maybe I should have added "/s" because i'm just poking at how much some are panicking at how only AMD boxes don't show the gaming brand, Nvidia cards that aren't the highest tier have more plainly branded cards for a while now.

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think it's the best way to show what most important features a card has rather than everything on the back on the box.

But maybe I should have added "/s" because i'm just poking at how much some are panicking at how only AMD boxes don't show the gaming brand, Nvidia cards that aren't the highest tier have more plainly branded cards for a while now.

Don't worry I did get the sarcasm . Just looking at that box it kind of just fits well for everything and if a company wants a halo product do us a favor and have one not 5. 

[XenosTech]

46 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I actually like the look of that box and the branding style of it.

 

All of them should be like that with the bottom section having the logo on how advanced the version of the card is in that brand's product stack and if you are going to use something like Aorus limit that to a single product for each model only. That way you can easily show off your very best card, Aorus/ROG etc, while maintaining clear consistency.

Pretty sure my strix box didn't have gaming slapped on it either but the page for it is flooded with gaming material. Plus I think people are intentionally being stupid now.... We all know full well windforce is a gaming brand 

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

Pretty sure my strix box didn't have gaming slapped on it either but the page for is flooded with gaming material. Plus I think people are intentionally being stupid now.... We all know full well windforce is a gaming brand 

Yep, didn't exactly feel like pointing that out. Gaming brand != gaming words on box. We're not really going to see any changes until the next generation of cards though, too much product support legacy to do a big mid switch. Vega maybe, but only because that is non existent and has barely any models at all.

[TechyBen]

I here by do protest in amplitude. Thus I extend my infallible rhetoric to supposition a solution to your folly.

 

I no longer am involved in childish "Gaming". From now on, my compute engine will be a "Frolicking" device!

 

May I suggest that the dear old chaps and lasses at AMD/Radeon go out and produce a GPU Frolicking card for the great unwashed masses forth to this instance!

 

Also available: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/gaming

Oh, "Tomfoolery" is also a good catch!

[Drak3]

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

lol anti competitive how they are restricting or stopping amd products from being sold?

Removing them from the, relatively speaking, well known, often bought, brand names. Most consumers don't research a product beyond what a few vocal people have to say.

 

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

lol anti competitive how they are restricting or stopping amd products from being sold?

they simply are offering quid pro quo but you can call it extorting hahahaha

Telling manufacturers to bend to ypur will, or be thrown at the bottom of the supply list and the top of the shit list, when you own most of the market these manufacturers are operating in, is a form of extortion.

 

Regardless of how much of a positive Nvidia PR wants to spin it and bullshit it into.

[pas008]

8 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Removing them from the, relatively speaking, well known, often bought, brand names. Most consumers don't research a product beyond what a few vocal people have to say.

 

Telling manufacturers to bend to ypur will, or be thrown at the bottom of the supply list and the top of the shit list, when you own most of the market these manufacturers are operating in, is a form of extortion.

 

Regardless of how much of a positive Nvidia PR wants to spin it and bullshit it into.

no its business and you know nvidia can just go to one manufacturer if they so wish

 

[leadeater]

29 minutes ago, pas008 said:

no its business and you know nvidia can just go to one manufacturer if they so wish

That was kind of exactly his point, accept these terms or we'll exclude you and find another AIB. Ignoring all the factors around this story that type of thing fits the basic definition of extortion.

[Razor01]

12 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That was kind of exactly his point, accept these terms or we'll exclude you and find another AIB. Ignoring all the factors around this story that type of thing fits the basic definition of extortion.

There is no force-able way for the gov to act on this unless the company in question can't replace their products with a competitors products or it screws with on going contracts.  So yeah they can go replace their products with AMD GPU's and cards.

And that is not extortion. extortion is criminal act, that doesn't take place in civil courts at all.

[leadeater]

12 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

There is no force-able way for the gov to act on this unless the company in question can't replace their products with a competitors products or it screws with on going contracts.  So yeah they can go replace their products with AMD GPU's and cards.

Yea that isn't the point though, got zero to do with gov. The point being made is if there is a threat of losing allocation or engineering engagement if you do not sign on to GPP that can be viewed as extortionate.

 

No better than the typical line from any mobster movie "I've got an offer you can't refuse", difference is it's not a person with a bat or a gun saying it it's a company holding a contract with terms in it you might not agree with but not have any power to negotiate better terms.

 

Do remember I did say ignore ALL factors about this story because basically all of it has nothing to do with peoples objections to what is going on. A company legally being an asshole is still a company being an asshole and if people want to point that out they are free to do so.

[Razor01]

Just now, leadeater said:

Yea that isn't the point though, got zero to do with gov. The point being made is if there is a threat of losing allocation or engineering engagement if you do not sign on to GPP that can be viewed as extortionate.

 

No better than the typical line from any mobster movie "I've got an offer you can't refuse", difference is it's not a person with a bat or a gun saying it it's a company holding a contract with terms in it you might not agree with but not have any power to negotiate better terms.

 

Do remember I did say ignore ALL factors about this story because basically all of it has nothing to do with people objections to what is going on. A company legally being an asshole is still a company being an asshole and if people want to point that out they are free to do so.

Big difference

 

extortion is a criminal act it has no place in a civil case.

[MoonSpot]

3 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

 

 

Is that a magnavox microwave oven?  How are people viewing this thread supposed to know what this image is without more exclusive branding plastered on it?

The company that actually manufactured that capacitor just underneath the right fan should find a way to communicate more clearly to the end user whether or not their product is actually included in this ovens assembly.  None of us want to inadvertently get stuck with ACME co capacitors.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

Big difference

 

extortion is a criminal act it has no place in a civil case.

Cool, freedom of expression. I or anyone else can say they feel the company's actions are extortionate without having to bring in a bunch of legal nonsense. It's an accurate description and how some people feel it is playing out.

 

I or anyone saying it doesn't mean it is or they are guilty of it or being convicted of it, that is for the legal system to sort out if required. We don't need everything excluded from discussion because people are unwilling to actually listen to someone's point of view and how they are describing it because you want to pull words out and argue them with legal meaning intent.

 

We don't need a word argument, not everyone is going to check a thesaurus and cross reference with legal definitions to pick out the best words possible to appease everyone. A sentence has a structure and meaning to it, the specific words hold less importance, this is not a court so exact correctness is not required.

[Razor01]

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Cool, freedom of expression. I or anyone else can say they feel the company's actions are extortionate without having to bring in a bunch of legal nonsense. It's an accurate description and how some people feel it is playing out.

 

I or anyone saying it doesn't mean it is or they are guilty of it or being convicted of it, that is for the legal system to sort out if required. We don't need everything excluded from discussion because people are unwilling to actually listen to someone's point of view and how they are describing it because you want to pull words out and argue them with legal meaning intent.

 

We don't need a word argument, not everyone is going to check a thesaurus and cross reference with legal definitions to pick out the best words possible to appease everyone. A sentence has a structure and meaning to it, the specific words hold less importance, this is not a court so exact correctness is not required.

 

Look extortion is using fear by the potential of bodily harm or money lost to gain property or assets.  Assets must be changing hands.  So to prove this they would need to show, what caused the fear to begin with, than the assets that were taken away from them.

 

Think it was the Hobb's act that took this into consideration.

 

This is why extortion goes hand in hand with mobs.

 

Way different stuff man. 

 

Now if it is proven that someone is extorting some else based on this, then they can go sue to get their money back or even more above and beyond what the criminal court finds did.

 

Coercion is a bit a different. That is using monopolistic power to force markets to do things that are beneficial to the monopoly.  But coercion must have a direct impact on consumers, not the middle man.

 

So lets say there are only two suppliers, and the main company sells to only one of the two suppliers and tells the others to piss off.  Well now one of those suppliers has a virtual monopoly and by doing so the main company and its supplier can influence prices to the consumer.  That is coercion.

[leadeater]

9 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

Look extortion is using fear by the potential of bodily harm or money lost to gain property or assets.  Assets must be changing hands.  So to prove this they would need to show, what caused the fear to begin with, than the assets that were taken away from them.

 

Think it was the Hobb's act that took this into consideration.

 

Way different stuff man. 

Bodily harm is not a requirement or assets.

 

Quote

Extortion (also called shakedown, outwrestling and exaction) is a criminal offense of obtaining money, property, or services from an individual or institution, through coercion. 

 

Quote

Coercion is the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force

 

"Agree to this contract or lose GPU allocation and engineering support", yep can easily see why people would describe that as extortion.

 

Either way you're still word arguing which beyond this post I really could not care less, I'll have a discussion only about points raised not words.

[Daniel Z.]

All the board partners should just remarket the AMD cards as MINING SERIES!

[Razor01]

21 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Bodily harm is not a requirement or assets.

 

 

 

"Agree to this contract or lose GPU allocation and engineering support", yep can easily see why people would describe that as extortion.

 

Either way you're still word arguing which beyond this post I really could not care less, I'll have a discussion only about points raised not words.

 

 

I didn't say that did  I said the use of fear by bodily harm or loss of money., but assets must be shifted.  and your quote states that too

 

Quote

Extortion (also called shakedown, outwrestling and exaction) is a criminal offense of obtaining money, property, or services from an individual or institution, through coercion. 

I don't know where you got that definition from because that is not a law definition

 

https://www.hg.org/extortion.html

 

Quote

Whether or not the threat is carried out does not determine whether the crime of extortion has been committed. As long as a verbal, written or printed threat is made; there is intention to purposefully or willfully carry out the threat; and the victim reasonably believes that the threat is real, this is sufficient. Additionally, the threat can be directed toward someone other than the intended victim, such as his/her family member or loved one. Extortion is closely related to bribery and robbery since they are all forms of theft/larceny. However, with robbery, the money or property is taken by force or intimidation, against the victim’s will and without his/her consent.

Although rare, in some states, the crime of extortion can also result in a civil lawsuit for damages under tort law. In these cases, it is necessary to show proof of the threat or violence, proof that the extortion resulted in damage/injury and that the person being sued caused the damage.

 

Look man its clear on paper what it states, if you are part of the GPP this is what you get, if you are not this is what you don't get.  And it doesn't stop you from any on going business transactions.

 

If they were getting those benefits before without GPP or without negotiations for other contracts, then its coercion.  All those things are negotiated on a per partner basis currently.

 

So the question is are these partners automatically getting launch status?  Are they automatically getting a certain allocation of GPU's?  Are they getting pass through rebates and all those MDF bucks automatically?   Are they getting free game bundles? With nothing being said or done?

 

No everything is negotiated for based on what the partner plans to do and how the market is doing and how much a partners buys.   All of these things are currently on a per partner basis.

 

 

EDIT

 

Ok I see where you got the definition from

Quote

Extortion (also called shakedown, outwrestling and exaction) is a criminal offense of obtaining money, property, or services from an individual or institution, through coercion. It is sometimes euphemistically referred to as a "protection racket" since the racketeers often phrase their demands as payment for "protection" from (real or hypothetical) threats from unspecified other parties; though often, and almost always, the person or organization offering "protection" is the same one willing to cause harm if the money is not paid, and such is implied in the "protection" offer. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups. The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense. Making a threat of violence which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property to halt future violence is sufficient to commit the offense. Exaction refers not only to extortion or the demanding and obtaining of something through force,^[1] but additionally, in its formal definition, means the infliction of something such as pain and suffering or making somebody endure something unpleasant.^[2]

 

 

Bolded the part that is missing.

 

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, MoonSpot said:

Is that a magnavox microwave oven?  How are people viewing this thread supposed to know what this image is without more exclusive branding plastered on it?

The company that actually manufactured that capacitor just underneath the right fan should find a way to communicate more clearly to the end user whether or not their product is actually included in this ovens assembly.  None of us want to inadvertently get stuck with ACME co capacitors.

The brand of the graphics card and model would be probably be enough for most people buying a dedicated GPU, although Nvidia putting some disclosure out on GPP would be great if its anything more than rumors or assumptions. I wouldn't put it past any tech company with such policies but so far we don't have any solid evidence from besides some twitter posts and a few boxes which AIB's haven't changed. If we see more proof i'd be disappointed and criticize Nvidia on it,even as a business tactic it is wrong and it would personally affect what i'd purchase in the future.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Blademaster91

[Cheezdoodlez]

4 hours ago, XenosTech said:

Pretty sure my strix box didn't have gaming slapped on it either but the page for it is flooded with gaming material. Plus I think people are intentionally being stupid now.... We all know full well windforce is a gaming brand 

<Insert meme of nerdy guy saying actually/>

 

Windforce the name for gigabytes cooling solution and not the brand afaik. Much like DirectCU and twin frozr are Asus and MSIs cooling solutions and not gaming brands. 

 

So unless the GPP requires an exclusive cooling solution/design these labels will continue to exists on both sides.

[Jito463]

6 hours ago, asus killer said:

if you think about it a RX580 is hardly a gaming card today, it's mostly a miners card 

I have to disagree with that.  I still use my R9 390 8GB - which is quite similar in performance to the RX 580 - and it plays everything I throw at it.  Mind you, I play in 1080p, not 4k.  Nevertheless, the fact is that the card can still keep up with todays games, most of the time with the settings maxed out even.

[XenosTech]

58 minutes ago, Cheezdoodlez said:

<Insert meme of nerdy guy saying actually/>

 

Windforce the name for gigabytes cooling solution and not the brand afaik. Much like DirectCU and twin frozr are Asus and MSIs cooling solutions and not gaming brands. 

 

So unless the GPP requires an exclusive cooling solution/design these labels will continue to exists on both sides.

Windforce is a brand for gigabyte, just like dual and strix are for asus

[asus killer]

17 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I have to disagree with that.  I still use my R9 390 8GB - which is quite similar in performance to the RX 580 - and it plays everything I throw at it.  Mind you, I play in 1080p, not 4k.  Nevertheless, the fact is that the card can still keep up with todays games, most of the time with the settings maxed out even.

what? 

 

i just mean no gamer in recent months can get to those cards. Never meant to say they aren't good.

[Jito463]

3 minutes ago, asus killer said:

what? 

 

i just mean no gamer in recent months can get to those cards. Never meant to say they aren't good.

Ah, my bad then.  I misinterpreted your post.

[Cheezdoodlez]

31 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

Windforce is a brand for gigabyte, just like dual and strix are for asus

Not really. Strix is an gaming brand for products. But e.g Rog strix 1080 uses a DirectCU III cooler. Much like arous 1080 uses a windforce cooler. It's not the companies brands for the cards but the coolers.