AMD GPU might get their own gaming brand under GPP

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Where do they give a definitive list of their GPU brands. I see some nice pre-done filter lists on their websites but no "These are our only brands", I don't see how a lack of one existing for Windfroce shows that it isn't one. The use of it has all the attributes of branding and if the word itself wasn't Windforce then yourself said it would be branding, seems more like you are caught up on the "but it's a name of a cooler" to then write off all the other signs that it is being used as branding.

 

Talks like a duck, walks like a duck, it's a chicken 

Did you see the link I posted on the last page? it was gigabytes speal about windforce and what it is, it also has a list of all their products that use the windforce cooler.

 

EDIT: two pages ago now,  here it is:

https://www.gigabyte.com/MicroSite/275/home.html

 

They tell you exactly what windforce is.

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Did you see the link I posted on the last page? it was gigabytes speal about windforce and what it is, it also has a list of all their products that use the windforce cooler.  

Yes I did and while it is specifically talking about the cooler technology on that link they are still slapping the Windforce name on a wide range of cards in the same way as all their other branding. Plus that link is super old now, 7970's and GTX 680's .

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes I did and while it is specifically talking about the cooler technology on that link they are still slapping the Windforce name on a wide range of cards in the same way as all their other branding.

Because those cards have that cooler and it is a selling point.

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Plus that link is super old now, 7970's and GTX 680's .

 I guess they haven't felt the need to update it.

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Because those cards have that cooler and it is a selling point.

True it might be the only selling point but like every other card with a Windforce cooler on it they could just put on the box the Windforce logo and not put it in the product name in the same manor as branding. Asus was capable of doing it and so is Gigabyte, it's not a big thing but the only way to refer to all of those cards is by Windforce and you have to use it in the same way as G1 Gaming. That's a G1 Gaming card and that's a Windforce card, I wouldn't need to refer to it as a Windforce card if it wasn't in the name of the product and it had something else to identify it by.

 

That's all branding is, a collective identification of like products that can be used for promotion.

 

Quote

A brand is a name, term, design, symbol, or other feature that distinguishes an organization or product from its rivals in the eyes of the customer.

 

[mr moose]

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

True it might be the only selling point but like every other card with a Windforce cooler on it they could just put on the box the Windforce logo and not put it in the product name in the same manor as branding.

They do do that, because not only the example that started all this did not have windforce in the title but had the logo on the box, but several other examples were posted the same. 

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Asus was capable of doing it and so is Gigabyte, it's not a big thing but the only way to refer to all of those cards is by Windforce and you have to use it in the same way as G1 Gaming. That's a G1 Gaming card and that's a Windforce card, I wouldn't need to refer to it as a Windforce card if it wasn't in the name of the product and it had something else to identify it by.

How about in the case of this one:

You just call it a gigabyte Geforce 1070?  I mean it doesn't need to have a name or a brand in order to know what it is from that description, It still has the windforce cooler and OC feature.

 

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That's all branding is, a collective identification of like products that can be used for promotion.

 

 

That's what makes G1, xtreme and aorus branding of cards, but windforce is not part of that collective, not in gigabytes listings and not by their definition of what windforce is.  It's only your summation because you see it in the product name. 

 

 

[leadeater]

30 minutes ago, mr moose said:

They do do that, because not only the example that started all this did not have windforce in the title but had the logo on the box, but several other examples were posted the same. 

But they are not only putting the logo on the box, that is my point. It's in the product name in the exact same way as G1 Gaming.

 

Edit: Here is the product link for the originating card you are talking about, https://www.gigabyte.com/nz/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070WF2OC-8GD-rev-10

 

30 minutes ago, mr moose said:

You just call it a gigabyte Geforce 1070?  I mean it doesn't need to have a name or a brand in order to know what it is from that description, It still has the windforce cooler and OC feature.

But that is a Gigabyte Geforce GTX 1070 Windforce OC. Now I do get the argument that it's being used to show that is has that cooler on it, like OC is being used in that product name however you can achieve that without putting Windforce in the name. Another thing you do not see is a Geforce GTX 1070 G1 Gaming OC, there are no cards like this with OC in the name but the OC logo is on the box for G1 Gaming cards.

 

There's a big difference between a card's features, the logos and trademarks of those and putting them on the box than there is for the actual product name itself.

 

This is why for me Windforce is being used both as branding for that line of cards and the design they are using and as the name and feature of the cooler it is using. You see the Windforce logo on all the cards that use it but only the Windforce series of cards have that as their literal name and they all follow the same design, like G1 Gaming cards or Xtreme Gaming.

[mr moose]

14 minutes ago, leadeater said:

But they are not only putting the logo on the box, that is my point. It's in the product name in the exact same way as G1 Gaming.

In some cases they are, some cards only have the windforce logo on the box while it does not mention windforce in the title.  This means it is a feature that sometimes makes it into the title.

 

Quote

But that is a Gigabyte Geforce GTX 1070 Windforce OC. Now I do get the argument that it's being used to show that is has that cooler on it, like OC is being used in that product name however you can achieve that without putting Windforce in the name.

So whatever they do to indicate it has a better cooler will you just assume is another form of branding for the card?  In that scenario there is no way they can put a descriptor in the title that doesn't become a card specific brand.  I mean why isn't 1060 a gigabyte specific brand? it's in the title,  As I said before, a product descriptor in the title does not automatically make it a brand for the card, for the cooler sure, but not the card.

 

Quote

Another thing you do not see is a Geforce GTX 1070 G1 Gaming OC, there are no cards like this with OC in the name but the OC logo in on the box for G1 Gaming cards.

 

There's a big difference between a card's features, the logos and trademarks of those and putting them on the box than there is for the actual product name itself.

By that logic you would also have to call OC a brand and not feature.

 

Quote

This is why for me Windforce is being used both as branding for that line of cards and the design they are using and as the name and feature of the cooler it is using. You see the Windforce logo on all the cards that use it only  the Windforce series of cards have that as their literal name and they all follow the same design, like G1 Gaming cards for or Xtreme Gaming.

It is a brand of cooler that sometimes make it into the title.  Again, having a name in the title doesn't make it a brand of that product. 

 

What about the dolby logo you see plastered all over the front home theatre amps? Dolby is not a brand of home theatre amps made by pioneer, it is the brand of a feature included in that product.     The only difference here is that gigabyte own both so they can put the name in the title if they want.

[leadeater]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

So whatever they do to indicate it has a better cooler will you just assume is another form of branding for the card? 

No because they could call the card Geforce GTX 1070 Flying Pig and put the Windforce logo on the box, then I would call all products with Flying Pig in the name the Flying Pig brand.

 

Edit:

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

What about the dolby logo you see plastered all over the front home theatre amps? Dolby is not a brand of home theatre amps made by pioneer, it is the brand of a feature included in that product.     The only difference here is that gigabyte own both so they can put the name in the title if they want.

Same deal my Onkyo TX-NR626 does not have any of those in the product name.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

No because they could call the card Geforce GTX 1070 Flying Pig and put the Windforce logo on the box, then I would call all products with Flying Pig in the name the Flying Pig brand.

At least that would be logical because flying pig is not the name of their cooling solution and would not be exclusively linked to the use of one specific part.

[leadeater]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

At least that would be logical because flying pig is not the name of their cooling solution and would not be exclusively linked to the use of one specific part.

But it's still very logical to call those cards the Windforce series, because IT'S IN THE NAME. Like G1 Gaming is IN THE NAME.

 

Central point, IT'S IN THE NAME. It's a brand while IT'S IN THE NAME.

 

That is my reasoning, nothing has been said that is counter to this unless G1 Gaming and Xtreme Gaming are not going to be considered branding.

 

Gigabyte are the ones being dumb and putting it in the product name not me, I need some way to refer to all cards with that design and the one and only thing I can do that with is Windforce because you guessed it, IT'S IN THE NAME.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

But it's still very logical to call those cards the Windforce series, because IT IN THE NAME. Like G1 Gaming is IN THE NAME.

 

Central point, IT'S IN THE NAME. It's a brand while IT'S IN THE NAME.

 

That is my reasoning, nothing has been said that is counter to this unless G1 Gaming and Xtreme gaming are not going to be considered branding.

 

Gigabyte are the ones being dumb and putting it in the product name not me, I need some way to refer to all cards with that design and the one and only thing I can do that with is Windforce because you guessed it, IT'S IN THE NAME.

"In the name" doesn't prove it's specific branding though,  as we established OC is in the name sometimes too, does that become a card brand as well?   Maybe there is a marketing side to this I am not accounting for. But when they say it isn't a card brand, it doesn't show up in their list of card brands and is only listed on some cards that do not already have another branding that includes the windforce as standard then I don't really see how it can be made to be something different.

 

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N108TAORUSX-WB-11GD#kf

Is this a waterforce brand card?

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N105TOC-4GL#kf

Is this an OC brand card?

 

It's in the name after all.

[leadeater]

35 minutes ago, mr moose said:

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N108TAORUSX-WB-11GD#kf

Is this a waterforce brand card?

If it wasn't already covered by Aorus then yes it could, however you'd need multiple different products with that in it's name and all following the same design to be able to start consider it as branding. Mind you exclusive sole product branding does exist but is rare, and I can't think of any examples in the PC industry hardware wise.

 

This is where using Windforce in the name crosses over to being a brand identifier. Multiple cards use it across different models and vendors, Nvidia and AMD, and they all follow the same design principle; Reference PCB with non reference cooler.

 

One of these is a Windforce series card, all of them are RX 480's and two of them have Windforce coolers:

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-RX480D5-8GD-B#kf

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-RX480WF2-8GD-rev-10#kf

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-RX480G1-GAMING-8GD#kf

 

One of these is a Windforce series card, all of them are GTX 1070, three of them have Windforce coolers.

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070D5-8GD-B#kf

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070WF2OC-8GD-rev-10#kf

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070XTREME-8GD-rev-10#kf

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070G1-GAMING-8GD-rev-10#kf

 

Lack of an inbuilt filter on Gigabyte's site is a pretty poor indication that it's not being used as branding, you can have a brand and choose not to promote it.

 

Edit:

And it still remains to be covered, how do I refer to these cards? They aren't stock or Founders Edition, G1 Gaming, Xtreme Gaming, Aorus and already have a clear identifier in the name yet I'm not supposed to use that?

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

If it wasn't already covered by Aorus then yes it could, however you'd need multiple different products with that in it's name and all following the same design to be able to start consider it as branding. Mind you exclusive sole product branding does exist but is rare, and I can't think of any examples in the PC industry hardware wise.

 

This is where using Windforce in the name crosses over to being a brand identifier. Multiple cards use it across different models and vendors, Nvidia and AMD, and they all follow the same design principle; Reference PCB with non reference cooler.

 

One of these is a Windforce series card, all of them are RX 480's and two of them have Windforce coolers:

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-RX480D5-8GD-B#kf

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-RX480WF2-8GD-rev-10#kf

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-RX480G1-GAMING-8GD#kf

I'm not sure what you think this proves.

 

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

One of these is a Windforce series card, all of them are GTX 1070, three of them have Windforce coolers.

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070D5-8GD-B#kf

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070WF2OC-8GD-rev-10#kf

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070XTREME-8GD-rev-10#kf

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070G1-GAMING-8GD-rev-10#kf

Again windforce is not a series of cards, if it was it would be in gigabytes list, but as it is it is a feature that they sometimes promote in the name.

 

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

Lack of an inbuilt filter on Gigabyte's site is a pretty poor indication that it's not being used as branding, you can have a brand and choose not to promote it.

It's a beter indicator that assuming it is a series because they promote their cards with int sometimes.

 

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

Edit:

And it still remains to be covered, how do I refer to these cards? They aren't stock or Founders Edition, G1 Gaming, Xtreme Gaming, Aorus and already have a clear identifier in the name yet I'm not supposed to use that?

You refer to them by the name of the card.   how do you refer to the cards that don't have windoforce in the title but aren't G1, xtreme or aorus?  By the title.  You can use it if you want, but it is not a clear indicator of anything other than it has the cooler on it.  Nor does using it make it a card branding or series.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

You refer to them by the name of the card.   how do you refer to the cards that don't have windoforce in the title but aren't G1, xtreme or aorus?  By the title.  You can use it if you want, but it is not a clear indicator of anything other than it has the cooler on it.  Nor does using it make it a card branding or series.

Well it does to literally anyone that needs to talk about those cards. Should I buy a Windforce card or step up to a G1 Gaming? So yea no it's absolutely a series of cards because they all follow the same design characteristic, lack of change from reference doesn't dissolve this.

 

Simple fact is if they were not using the word Windforce in the name it would be a brand, therefore it's use in that exact same way makes it a brand. It is being used that way.

 

If you use it like a brand it is a brand, dual purpose, dual usage, is both, being used as both. So like I said tell me why it can't be both, don't tell me it's just a cooler, it's currently both to me because Gigabyte is using it as both.

 

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

I'm not sure what you think this proves.

 

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Again windforce is not a series of cards, if it was it would be in gigabytes list, but as it is it is a feature that they sometimes promote in the name.

That you can identify Windforce series cards explicitly because they are ALL branded as Windforce, like all G1 Gaming cards are branded that way. Lack of an inbuilt filter on Gigabytes site means zero, nothing to me. Just shows they don't care about that brand or want to promote it.

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

. Just shows they don't care about that brand or want to promote it.

Or it's not a brand of card as such.

 

Do we have a gigabyte rep on these forums?  I feel we have done the conversation to death and need them too say something. 

[Guest]

What constitutes a 'gaming' brand. Why not make it a 'powerful' brand or 'streaming' brand etc. 

[leadeater]

13 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Or it's not a brand of card as such.

 

Do we have a gigabyte rep on these forums?  I feel we have done the conversation to death and need them too say something. 

Quite frankly even if a Gigabyte rep said it wasn't a brand the only way they could resolve it is stop using it the name across all their cards like that, like Asus did.

 

Until it's not being used like a brand it is a brand. Like G1 Gaming tells a buyer what the card is, non-reference PCB customer cooler, Windforce also tells the buyer what the card is, reference PCB customer cooler. It actually does signify something even if that is the only change from reference Nvidia design it still has meaning beyond just the cooler.

 

If the Windforce cards had a custom PCB but were not in G1 Gaming, Xtreme Gaming, Aorus or any other branding then the Windforce branding would be even more important even despite being the name of the cooler. I simply do not see how a lack of change from reference PCB design makes it's use less like branding.

[Razor01]

24 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

What constitutes a 'gaming' brand. Why not make it a 'powerful' brand or 'streaming' brand etc. 

 

The gaming brand doesn't matter, like with Dell they made a G line a gaming laptop brand for GPP.  If the AIB's want their current premium gaming brand under the GPP its up to them, and so far that is what it seems like happened, the branding has been removed from the boxes of AMD cards.  They will make another brand for AMD.

[pas008]

13 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Quite frankly even if a Gigabyte rep said it wasn't a brand the only way they could resolve it is stop using it the name across all their cards like that, like Asus did.

 

Until it's not being used like a brand it is a brand. Like G1 Gaming tells a buyer what the card is, non-reference PCB customer cooler, Windforce also tells the buyer what the card is, reference PCB customer cooler. It actually does signify something even if that is the only change from reference Nvidia design it still has meaning beyond just the cooler.

 

If the Windforce cards had a custom PCB but were not in G1 Gaming, Xtreme Gaming, Aorus or any other branding then the Windforce branding would be even more important even despite being the name of the cooler. I simply do not see how a lack of change from reference PCB design makes it's use less like branding.

Evga had icx cooler and sensor technology but they are not icx cards

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

Evga had icx cooler and sensor technology but they are not icx cards

But they were/are not using it in the product name like Gigabyte are.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

 

The gaming brand doesn't matter, like with Dell they made a G line a gaming laptop brand for GPP.  If the AIB's want their current premium gaming brand under the GPP its up to them, and so far that is what it seems like happened, the branding has been removed from the boxes of AMD cards.  They will make another brand for AMD.

Thats exactly my point just make another brand. I don't see what the big deal is or really why Nvidia is doing this because there literally is no point. Its well known that 'gaming' simply means the card effectively is a bit more powerful than reference. Its just a label. 

[pas008]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

But they were/are not using it in the product name like Gigabyte are.

Their boxes advertise acx icx just like non windforce cards but using their cooler design think that's the point here

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

Their boxes advertise acx icx just like non windforce cards but using their cooler design think that's the point here

That's not what we are talking about though, go to Gigabytes site and in the search type in "Windforce" and you will get 20 current products that are all named with Windforce in the name in the very same manor as all the G1 Gaming cards are.

 

This is not about the features of the cards and the logos on the box it's about the literal naming and branding of the cards themselves. I like any normal person would refer to all those cards as Windforce cards, not because they have a Windforce cooler on it because G1 Gaming cards do as well but because that is how they are actually named.

[pas008]

https://www.gigabyte.com/MicroSite/275/home.html

@mr moose

@leadeater

[leadeater]

21 minutes ago, pas008 said:

https://www.gigabyte.com/MicroSite/275/home.html

Yes I have seen that, have you actually gone and looked at the graphics cards on their site and how they are named.

 

Windforce is a cooler, awesome, but it's not the point.

 

When you have cards named like these:

• GeForce® GTX 1070 G1 Gaming 8G
• GeForce® GTX 1070 WINDFORCE 8G

 

If Windforce in that usage is not branding then neither is G1 Gaming.

 

Edit:

Explain to me how this is not branding:

Radeon™ RX 470 WINDFORCE 4G (rev 1.0) 
Radeon™ RX 480 WINDFORCE 4G (rev 1.0)
Radeon™ RX 480 WINDFORCE 8G (rev 1.0)
Radeon™ RX460 WINDFORCE OC 2G 
Radeon™ RX460 WINDFORCE OC 4G 
GeForce® GTX 1070 WINDFORCE 8G (rev 2.0) 
GeForce® GTX 1070 WINDFORCE OC 8G (rev 2.0)
GeForce® GTX 1060 WINDFORCE 3G
GeForce® GTX 1060 WINDFORCE 6G (rev 1.0/1.1)
GeForce® GTX 1050 Windforce OC 2G
GeForce® GTX 1070 WINDFORCE 8G (rev 1.0)
GeForce® GTX 1060 WINDFORCE OC 3G
GeForce® GTX 1060 WINDFORCE OC 6G (rev 1.0/1.1)
GeForce® GTX 1070 WINDFORCE OC 8G (rev 1.0)
GeForce® GTX 1050 Windforce 2G
GeForce® GTX 1080 WINDFORCE OC 8G (rev. 1.0)  
GeForce® GTX 1070 Ti WINDFORCE 8G
GeForce® GTX 1050 Ti Windforce 4G
GeForce® GTX 1050 Ti Windforce OC 4G  

 

But this is:

GeForce® GTX 1070 G1 Gaming 8G