AMD GPU might get their own gaming brand under GPP

[Notional]

3 hours ago, Comte DeLoach said:

All ASUS had to do is keep “Republic of Gamers” for AMD (for Radeon) and make a new brand called “Nation of Gamers” for Nvidia.  “R” for Radeon, “N” for Nvidia.  Easy peasy, and makes sense.  

Well, according to the original news, NVidia wants to usurp the primary gaming brand of the vendor. In Asus' case that would be ROG and maybe even Strix. 

1 hour ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Well, I want to see this confirmed or debunked... Here we are discussing if removing Aorus or ROG is meaningful, but a change in the main brand? That's way more serious. Until a significant part of the market learn Asus=Arez, it would seem like a random knockoff for a while. And even then people may still think that Asus is not using its branding because it's intrinsically worse (the same way GMC segments its lineup by selling Opels and Chevrolets in Europe, or Chevrolets and Daewoos respectively in North America).

I want the program to be leaked. Linus did talk about it at this WAN show. I think people might have an unrealistic expectation to what official information will be available in this case. Several companies behave in a manner that should be enough to conclude that, at least to some extent, this is happening. When is the last time you've heard of such a big programme an NO vendor wants to discuss it AT ALL. Not even anonymously or off the record. Nothing. Nvidia refusing to elaborate and stating they are "over it".

 

I'm worried about peoples lack of critical sense here.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

3 minutes ago, Notional said:

Well, according to the original news, NVidia wants to usurp the primary gaming brand of the vendor. In Asus' case that would be ROG and maybe even Strix. 

I want the program to be leaked. Linus did talk about it at this WAN show. I think people might have an unrealistic expectation to what official information will be available in this case. Several companies behave in a manner that should be enough to conclude that, at least to some extent, this is happening. When is the last time you've heard of such a big programme an NO vendor wants to discuss it AT ALL. Not even anonymously or off the record. Nothing. Nvidia refusing to elaborate and stating they are "over it".

While this is true, whether "Arez Strix" cards are released or not is public information, so we will get confirmation or debunking of the whole Arez lineup part of the story.

[Notional]

Just now, SpaceGhostC2C said:

While this is true, whether "Arez Strix" cards are released or not is public information, so we will get confirmation or debunking of the whole Arez lineup part of the story.

Absolutely. Things move fairly slow. I don't think we can make a proper conclusion until Navi is out about any brand.

[D13H4RD]

I have an odd question. 

 

What about laptops? ASUS sells an all-AMD powered laptop branded as an RoG STRIX. 

[Humbug]

 

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/04/12/dell_hp_resist_nvidia_gpp_leash_so_far

Dell and HP Resist the NVIDIA GPP Leash - So Far

Quote

 

This is a quick followup to our article entitled GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice that HardOCP published a month ago. Since then there have been a lot of developments in the industry that outline that the terms of NVIDIA GPP are exactly as we laid out in that article, specifically and most importantly that NVIDIA is requiring AIBs and OEMs to move their GPU gaming brands exclusively to NVIDIA products. Below is the exact language used by NVIDIA in documents to companies "invited" to be a GPP partner.

 

 

As of today we believe that both Dell and HP have NOT signed the GPP contract. I say believe, because neither company or NVIDIA would confirm this on the record. I have had backchannel discussions about this with trusted sources, and this press release story pushed out by The Verge on HP introducing systems in its Pavilion Gaming line with Radeon and NVIDIA GPUs inside recently would suggest GPP is not in the cards for HP. However, its Omen Gaming boxes are now devoid of AMD GPUs at this time. We are hoping this is a supply issue rather than a GPP issue. All of the silence surrounding this certainly reminds us that the First Rule of GPP is, Don't Talk About GPP. But don't fear, NVIDIA has clearly stated, GPP is all about transparency to benefit the gamer.

 

We did reach out to NVIDIA to again ask what companies were signed up with its GPP, and once again failed to get an answer; again that transparency thing comes to mind. But as we reported a couple of weeks ago, NVIDIA has "moved on" from this story so we don't expect an answer.

 

Lenovo is the outlier in the big three OEMs, and we are getting little-to-no information about that company. We are unsure if Lenovo has gone with NVIDIA's GPP at this time. From what we are hearing, which is rumor and speculation, we think Lenovo has not signed on with GPP, but we could be wrong on that. However, Lenovo at this time still has its Legion brand gaming systems with Radeon GPUs listed on its site.

 

Dell and HP not coming on board with GPP is actually a very big deal. Out of all the companies that we think NVIDIA is strong arming into GPP, Dell and HP have the most leverage to push back due to the massive volumes of mid and low-end GPUs that both purchase from NVIDIA. While AMD is not able to compete on the extremely high end, it certainly is making mid-level and low-end GPUs that both Dell and HP have access to. And for what it is worth, the Vega 64 is an excellent gaming card at 1440p which fits the bill for a huge portion of the market on high end gaming systems. NVIDIA may be in a fight to seize these companies gaming brands for their own, which NVIDIA may just lose, and hopefully so.

 

Dell nor HP are wanting to turn over their gaming brands to NVIDIA. Off the record conversations suggest that both of these companies think that NVIDIA GPP is unethical, and likely illegal as it pertains to anti-competition laws here in the United States. The bottom line is that Dell and HP are very much upset with NVIDIA over GPP, and Dell and HP look to be digging in for a fight.

 

On the other side of the coin, we see ASUS, Gigabyte, and MSI have already laid their gaming brands at NVIDIA's feet. ASUS has already committed to remove all AMD GPU products that appear under its high end Republic of Gamers brand as it pertains to video cards. (AMD Motherboards will stay ROG.) All AMD cards will now carry its "AREZ" branding. It will be interesting how these cards are marketed through this new Arez brand although ASUS did have and "Ares" brand in the past. Will it be a "gaming brand?" Gigabyte has already been documented as to removing its Aorus gaming brand from AMD GPU products, and MSI has been spotted as doing the same, however neither company has openly announced a new brand specific to AMD GPUs.

 

It looks as the Asia-based companies have rolled over for their master, NVIDIA, and given away their gaming branding in order to make sure they stay on NVIDIA's good side. The US based companies have not yet heeled to NVIDIA's GPP leash. And NVIDIA may soon find out that there are a couple of big dogs that are left in the yard that might bite.

 

The other unknown in this is Intel. Big Blue is very much aware of what is going on, and GPP could very much impact the sales of its Kaby Lake-G part that contains a GPU that was built by AMD specifically for Intel. I would expect we are going to see legal action initiated on NVIDIA GPP by Intel at some point in the future.

 

We also now can share that NVIDIA has specified that it will not extend discounts to non-GPP partners. And what is appalling, but not surprising, is that NVIDIA is denying "priority allocation" to non-GPP partners as well. That basically means your GPU order must have gotten lost in the mail.

 

"Gaming" brands outsell non-gaming brands 3 to 1 according to the research I have seen on the subject. So to suggest that AMD will not be impacted by GPP is simply not true.

 

To sum up NVIDIA's actions, if you do not agree to be a part of its GPP, you lose GPU allocation, you lose GPU discounts, you lose rebates, you lose marketing development funds (MDF), you lose game bundles, you lose NVIDIA PR and marketing support, you lose high effort engineering engagements, you lose launch partner status, but you do get to keep the gaming brand that your company has developed over the years.

 

The carrot and stick metaphor comes to mind here. NVIDIA is telling us that its GPP program is a simple carrot, albeit a carrot that it was supplying willingly before these GPP terms were pushed out. I would suggest to you that North American OEMs are seeing GPP as a stick. As for the Asia based companies, I think they see it as just another normal business day and are still glad to have the job of pulling the wagon. One thing is for certain. Dell and HP see the danger of handing their gaming brands over to NVIDIA. We hope both stand their ground.

 

 

[mr moose]

The biggest problem with this whole thing is how hard people cling to stories and assumptions like it actually proves something.   Honestly HardOCP could write an article claiming Nvidia has spies inside AMD and is openly short selling and we'd have people running around believing it to be concrete without even a second thought.   You only have to look at the degree of adjectives used in this thread to see how emotionally invested people are.   The issue with being so emotionally invested is that we don't have enough evidence to justify such a response yet. 

[Trixanity]

46 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The biggest problem with this whole thing is how hard people cling to stories and assumptions like it actually proves something.   Honestly HardOCP could write an article claiming Nvidia has spies inside AMD and is openly short selling and we'd have people running around believing it to be concrete without even a second thought.   You only have to look at the degree of adjectives used in this thread to see how emotionally invested people are.   The issue with being so emotionally invested is that we don't have enough evidence to justify such a response yet. 

This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Trixanity said:

This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.

how so?  Do you think people should not seek the truth before drawing conclusions and acting on them?

[Trixanity]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

how so?  Do you think people should not seek the truth before drawing conclusions and acting on them?

Woooosh.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Woooosh.

Ahh. *puts on best maxwell smart voice*  fooled by the old /s tag in the shoe trick.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Ahh. *puts on best maxwell smart voice*  fooled by the old /s tag in the shoe trick.

Well I know what I feel like watching right about now, thanks.

[ItsJosh18]

https://archive.li/I7Coo

 

Archived link for you.

 

 

I think GPP is very scummy and manufacturers have no choice but to comply. No idea what Nvidia is thinking with this.

[Notional]

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

The biggest problem with this whole thing is how hard people cling to stories and assumptions like it actually proves something.   Honestly HardOCP could write an article claiming Nvidia has spies inside AMD and is openly short selling and we'd have people running around believing it to be concrete without even a second thought.   You only have to look at the degree of adjectives used in this thread to see how emotionally invested people are.   The issue with being so emotionally invested is that we don't have enough evidence to justify such a response yet. 

The biggest problem with this whole thing is how naive people are being here. Even if no one believes Kyle, the mere behaviour of ALL the vendors involved here, speaks volumes. As in, no leakes, no comments, no off the record, is damn near unheard of in this business. With NVidia arrogantly stating, they are "over it", and rumours flying about name changes for ALL AMD products, idk what there is to discuss anymore.

Pretty much all outlets seems to be on Kyle's side here, not officially confirming his statement, but rather that ALL their normal industry insiders are completely unwilling to say anything about this.

 

If that doesn't make all alarm bells go off, then you just chose not to face reality.

 

9 hours ago, Humbug said:

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/04/12/dell_hp_resist_nvidia_gpp_leash_so_far

Dell and HP Resist the NVIDIA GPP Leash - So Far

Not a huge surprise, as they don't make GPU's. Both make Gsync panels, sure, but that is all.

[Blademaster91]

27 minutes ago, Notional said:

The biggest problem with this whole thing is how naive people are being here. Even if no one believes Kyle, the mere behaviour of ALL the vendors involved here, speaks volumes. As in, no leakes, no comments, no off the record, is damn near unheard of in this business. With NVidia arrogantly stating, they are "over it", and rumours flying about name changes for ALL AMD products, idk what there is to discuss anymore.

Pretty much all outlets seems to be on Kyle's side here, not officially confirming his statement, but rather that ALL their normal industry insiders are completely unwilling to say anything about this.

If that doesn't make all alarm bells go off, then you just chose not to face reality.

From a business standpoint it doesn't do any good to comment on Kyle's biased assumptions either,all it would do is stir up more rumors from people way too emotionally invested in their favorite brand. And well of course media is going to follow along with Kyle, all the instilled emotional fear hype is generating them plenty of clicks and views.

[Humbug]

36 minutes ago, Notional said:

The biggest problem with this whole thing is how naive people are being here. Even if no one believes Kyle, the mere behaviour of ALL the vendors involved here, speaks volumes. As in, no leakes, no comments, no off the record, is damn near unheard of in this business. With NVidia arrogantly stating, they are "over it", and rumours flying about name changes for ALL AMD products, idk what there is to discuss anymore.

Yep the fact that everybody is afraid to even confirm or deny if they signed GPP speaks volumes. Combined with Nvidia's strategy of shut up and wait for it to go away... As Linus said on the WAN show, they know that if they start talking things will become worse.

[mr moose]

13 hours ago, Notional said:

The biggest problem with this whole thing is how naive people are being here. Even if no one believes Kyle, the mere behaviour of ALL the vendors involved here, speaks volumes. As in, no leakes, no comments, no off the record, is damn near unheard of in this business. With NVidia arrogantly stating, they are "over it", and rumours flying about name changes for ALL AMD products, idk what there is to discuss anymore.

Pretty much all outlets seems to be on Kyle's side here, not officially confirming his statement, but rather that ALL their normal industry insiders are completely unwilling to say anything about this.

 

If that doesn't make all alarm bells go off, then you just chose not to face reality.

 

Not a huge surprise, as they don't make GPU's. Both make Gsync panels, sure, but that is all.

I never said people shouldn't be concerned or alarmed. I said they shouldn't be emotional.   Refusing to say something is not "being on a side" or confirming anything.  That is the problem some people are failing to understand and it is an issue with letting your emotions drive your perception.  You do realise that defending something that isn't true can be just as bad for PR as defending something that is true. 

[Comte DeLoach]

On 4/7/2018 at 3:32 AM, MoonSpot said:

I guess probably not. I think it would be safe to assume that nvidia wanted the AIBs established brands and the AIBs knew it.  Either implicitly or explicitly, take your pick, it doesn't matter as far as the businesses are concerned. 

Probably right, but why would Nvidia care as long as they got their own distinct brand?  

[MoonSpot]

6 minutes ago, Comte DeLoach said:

Probably right, but why would Nvidia care as long as they got their own distinct brand?  

Because popular and familiar brands are established, have past 'cred' to cash in on and flat-out sell more.  So money, as much of it as they can claim for themselves.  What other reason is there?  It's the only reason for anything companies do.

[Comte DeLoach]

9 minutes ago, MoonSpot said:

Because popular and familiar brands are established, have past 'cred' to cash in on and flat-out sell more.  So money, as much of it as they can claim for themselves.  What other reason is there?  It's the only reason for anything companies do.

But it doesn't make sense, Nvidia fanboys are going to buy Nvidia products regardless if the "brand" just as AMD fanboys are going to buy AMD products regardless of the brand.  As long as they have their own specific branding, it's a no loss situation....

[MoonSpot]

17 minutes ago, Comte DeLoach said:

But it doesn't make sense, Nvidia fanboys are going to buy Nvidia products regardless if the "brand" just as AMD fanboys are going to buy AMD products regardless of the brand.  As long as they have their own specific branding, it's a no loss situation....

That assumes that everyone that plays video games is keen on hardware, which is far from the truth.  How many people do you know that play games whom refer to their monitors as computers and computer case as hard-drives?  Cause I've known a lot of them.  And when these people, whom aren't tech savvy, try to look into which things are better they can easily find themselves looking at name brands and base their decisions on what they perceive to be track records.

 

If it not being loss in this situation were remotely true, wouldn't the language of the GPP have been to demand the creation of a new exclusive brand?  Why isn't that what happened with any of the AIBs?  Because it does matter, brand names do have value, established brands do sell more. 

[Kamjam21xx]

On 3/30/2018 at 7:28 PM, pas008 said:

Sued for what?

Lol

Yeah theyll get a huge fine.

[Kamjam21xx]

I have refused to buy nvidia cards my entire life, i had an old 2000 or earlier ish computer with something i cant remember in it from nvidia, thats it.

 

I wont ever buy nvidia. Im boycotring their ethics, not their cards. They have great cards. 

 

Atleast gpp wont effect AMD workstation cards, ill be getting their best ones.

[Humbug]

On 4/14/2018 at 11:14 AM, Comte DeLoach said:

But it doesn't make sense, Nvidia fanboys are going to buy Nvidia products regardless if the "brand" just as AMD fanboys are going to buy AMD products regardless of the brand.  As long as they have their own specific branding, it's a no loss situation....

Nobody is claiming it is as big as 'geforce' or 'radeon' branding but it plays a part. Just having gaming in your name is enough to increase sales significantly, that's how many buyers think consciously or not.

 

Terms like 'ROG strix' etc have been repeated in the boxes for many generations of hardware. So to a casual buyer they carry some weight. They are thinking I don't know what this means exactly but I know it's something good...

 

Remember to the casual buyer it's just intimidating, he cannot research everything. He walks into a shop or opens amazon, if he lucky he is told the rx 580 is the same speed as a gtx 1060. He is looking for a tie breaker, he looks at the boxes: if he sees more familiar branding it makes his buying decision easier.

[Kamjam21xx]

On 4/13/2018 at 4:09 AM, mr moose said:

The biggest problem with this whole thing is how hard people cling to stories and assumptions like it actually proves something.   Honestly HardOCP could write an article claiming Nvidia has spies inside AMD and is openly short selling and we'd have people running around believing it to be concrete without even a second thought.   You only have to look at the degree of adjectives used in this thread to see how emotionally invested people are.   The issue with being so emotionally invested is that we don't have enough evidence to justify such a response yet. 

I plan on never buying an nvidia card, so im not worried about it. 

 

Theyll get sued, ill get a workstation card 4x faster for the same price from amd.

[Razor01]

3 hours ago, Kamjam21xx said:

I plan on never buying an nvidia card, so im not worried about it. 

 

Theyll get sued, ill get a workstation card 4x faster for the same price from amd.

 

Not going to be sued, we already see what AIB's are doing with the exclusivity of GPP.  These have been done in other industries, markets for decades, even centuries.  GPP is no different than other marketing tactics used in the past.

 

Why not get a gen old nV workstation graphic card then?  Those are still faster than most current (tier for tier) AMD workstation graphics cards in most 3d apps.

 

There are times the Polaris based Firepro cards go up against Keplar based Quadro's products in terms of performance in some apps.  That should never happen.