telemetry Next Windows 10 build will show what is being sent as telemetry data

[captain_to_fire]

Source: Ars Technica, Microsoft

Quote

 

Following the publication last year of the data collected by Windows 10's built-in telemetry and diagnostic tracking, Microsoft today announced that the next major Windows 10 update, due around March or April, will support a new app, the Windows Diagnostic Data Viewer, that will allow Windows users to browse and inspect the data that the system has collected.

 

Windows 10 has two settings for its data collection, "basic" and "full." The documentation last year described all the data collected in the "basic" setting but only gave a broad outline of the kinds of things that the "full" setting collected. The new app will show users precisely what the full setting entails and a comparison with what would be sent with the basic setting. The utility of the app will tend to vary depending on what data is being inspected. The presentation is low-level (Microsoft's screenshots show JSON structured data using various magic numbers—numeric values that encode information but without any key to explain what information each number encodes), so straightforward reading and interpretation will remain limited.

All that is nice and somehow catching up to Apple's approach of telemetry but unlike Apple's telemetry where you can turn it off, there's still no off button to Windows 10's telemetry. I wonder if this is a response from the Dutch DPA complaint about Microsoft's aggressive telemetry practices even in Basic settings or they are preparing Windows 10 to be more GDPR compliant for the EU which will soon take effect on May 25, 2018? But from the looks of it, it's a bit more refined than Apple's when it comes to viewing the actual telemetry data.

 

Microsoft commented further in their blog saying:

Quote

Microsoft Privacy Dashboard

 

We’ve updated the Microsoft Privacy Dashboard with a new Activity History page which provides a clear and easy to navigate way to see the data that is saved with your Microsoft account. The Microsoft Privacy Dashboard allows you to manage your data and change what data is collected by adjusting the privacy settings on your device or browser at any time.

 

And in the coming months, we’ll also bring additional features that will allow you to;

• View and manage media consumption data, as well as product and service activity on the Activity History page
• Export for any of the data you see on the dashboard
• Delete specific items to allow for greater individual control

Participants in the Windows Insider Program will have the first opportunity to explore all of these new features. They’ll also get an early look at some additional changes in functionality and settings in the coming weeks, and we’re looking forward to their feedback.

 

Your data privacy will continue to be a priority towards making Windows 10 the best and most secure experience. From improving in-product control, transparency and information about your privacy, while providing a complete list of the diagnostic data collected at the Basic level, among others, to launching the Microsoft Privacy Dashboard and the enhancements we’ve made since then, we want you to be able to easily see and manage your activity data online across multiple Microsoft services.

The thing is this should have existed in the first place way back in 2015 when Microsoft pushed Windows 10 to the public for free. They are simply doing it now because a lot of people and organizations have their eyes on Microsoft and they're not wrong. Would this mean Microsoft will sell an EU version of Windows 10 with more privacy in mind because they are caught red handed by the Dutch DPA? https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/en/news/dutch-dpa-microsoft-breaches-data-protection-law-windows-10 

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by hey_yo_

[AresKrieger]

They've already been caught lying about it why would anyone trust them now, if they actually cared they wouldn't have done it in the first place this is just an attempt to lighten any potential fines and lower the amount of bad press

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

I don't even believe for a second that the tool will report the truth anymore, that's how much Microsoft's continued lies and secrecy have ruined my trust in them.

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, AresKrieger said:

They've already been caught lying about it why would anyone trust them now, if they actually cared they wouldn't have done it in the first place this is just an attempt to lighten any potential fines and lower the amount of bad press

They should because violating the GDPR would mean fines ranging from ten to twenty million euros. 

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

 I wonder if this is a response from the Dutch DPA complaint about Microsoft's aggressive telemetry practices even in Basic settings

 

I doubt it, the dutch complaint was about initial disclosure of the data collection (MS failed to properly inform users it was happening), The problem was MS has made it clear what data they are collecting only in agreements and licenses (not good enough) which the DPA investigation didn't prove otherwise. 

[captain_to_fire]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

I doubt it, the dutch complaint was about initial disclosure of the data collection (MS failed to properly inform users it was happening), The problem was MS has made it clear what data they are collecting only in agreements and licenses (not good enough) which the DPA investigation didn't prove otherwise. 

Not really as the Dutch DPA had the technical data to prove that Windows 10’s telemetry is aggressive even on basic settings and they violated privacy laws in the Netherlands. https://www.autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/sites/default/files/atoms/files/public_version_dutch_dpa_informal_translation_summary_of_investigation_report.pdf 

[mr moose]

Just now, hey_yo_ said:

Not really as the Dutch DPA had the technical data to prove that Windows 10’s telemetry is aggressive even on basic settings and they violated privacy laws in the Netherlands. https://www.autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/sites/default/files/atoms/files/public_version_dutch_dpa_informal_translation_summary_of_investigation_report.pdf 

The DPA complaint centres around informed consent.  That is where MS failed, it was not in hiding the data they were collecting, but that they did not give users adequate opportunity to make an informed decision.    Users therefore had no reason to read through the 100's of pages of windows licenses and agreements to work out what was being sent. 

 

[Kherm]

I'm amazed that people are complaining that this is somehow not enough or not honest.

[captain_to_fire]

22 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The DPA complaint centres around informed consent.  That is where MS failed, it was not in hiding the data they were collecting, but that they did not give users adequate opportunity to make an informed decision.    Users therefore had no reason to read through the 100's of pages of windows licenses and agreements to work out what was being sent. 

 

The problem is not just about consent but also Microsoft's false advertising that Basic telemetry is aggregated and anonymized when in fact it's not. The English report is a redacted, summarized one but the full, unabridged Dutch version had it in detail as to what Microsoft is collecting. https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/sites/default/files/atoms/files/onderzoek_microsoft_windows_10_okt_2017.pdf

.

Dutch: 

Microsoft kon en kan ten aanzien van de standaardinstelling volledige telemetrie ook geen geslaagd beroep doen op de grondslagen ‘noodzakelijk ter behartiging van een gerechtvaardigd belang’ (artikel 8, onder f, van de Wbp) en ‘noodzakelijk voor de uitvoering van een overeenkomst’ (artikel 8, onder b, van de Wbp). Dit komt in de eerste plaats omdat Microsoft in strijd handelt met de Telecommunicatiewet door geen toestemming te verkrijgen voorafgaand aan het verzamelen van gegevens die opgeslagen zijn op het apparaat. Daarom kon en kan Microsoft geen beroep doen op haar gerechtvaardigd belang. Verder geldt dat Microsoft de telemetriegegevens voor verschillende doeleinden verwerkt en niet heeft afgebakend welke soorten persoonsgegevens het bedrijf voor elk van deze doeleinden verwerkt. Omdat het bij volledige telemetrie ook gegevens betreft van gevoelige aard, en het belang van Microsoft bij deze gegevensverwerking niet opweegt tegen het recht op bescherming van de persoonlijke levenssfeer van betrokkenen, voldoet het bedrijf niet aan het noodzakelijkheidsvereiste. Microsoft zou wel een grondslag kunnen verkrijgen voor de beperkte gegevensverwerking bij standaard telemetrie, mits dit de standaardinstelling zou zijn, en gebruikers aparte toestemming konden geven voor de verwerking van deze gegevens voor het verbeteren van de producten en diensten van Microsoft en de twee reclame-doeleinden.

 

English (via Google Translate):

Microsoft also could not and did not pass the full telemetry standard setting
rely on the foundations 'necessary to represent a legitimate interest' (Article 8,
under f, of the Wbp) and 'necessary for the execution of an agreement' (Article 8, under b, of the Wbp)
Wbp). This is primarily because Microsoft is acting in violation of the Telecommunications Act
not obtain consent prior to collecting data stored on it
device. Therefore, Microsoft could not and does not have recourse to its legitimate interest. Furthermore applies
that Microsoft processes the telemetry data for different purposes and has not defined it
what types of personal data the company processes for each of these purposes. Because it's at
full telemetry also involves sensitive data, and Microsoft's interest in this
data processing does not outweigh the right to the protection of the privacy of
parties involved, the company does not fulfill the necessity requirement. Microsoft would be a foundation
for the limited data processing with standard telemetry, provided this is the
standard setting, and users could give separate permission for processing this
data for improving the products and services of Microsoft and the two advertising purposes.

 

This forum has a sizable EU members with many of them are from the Netherlands. They are free to literally translate the entire document to prove otherwise because I do not know Dutch.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, hey_yo_ said:

The problem is not just about consent but also Microsoft's false advertising that Basic telemetry is aggregated and anonymized when in fact it's not. The English report is a redacted, summarized one but the full Dutch version had it in detail as to what Microsoft is collecting. https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/sites/default/files/atoms/files/onderzoek_microsoft_windows_10_okt_2017.pdf

.

Dutch: 

Microsoft kon en kan ten aanzien van de standaardinstelling volledige telemetrie ook geen geslaagd beroep doen op de grondslagen ‘noodzakelijk ter behartiging van een gerechtvaardigd belang’ (artikel 8, onder f, van de Wbp) en ‘noodzakelijk voor de uitvoering van een overeenkomst’ (artikel 8, onder b, van de Wbp). Dit komt in de eerste plaats omdat Microsoft in strijd handelt met de Telecommunicatiewet door geen toestemming te verkrijgen voorafgaand aan het verzamelen van gegevens die opgeslagen zijn op het apparaat. Daarom kon en kan Microsoft geen beroep doen op haar gerechtvaardigd belang. Verder geldt dat Microsoft de telemetriegegevens voor verschillende doeleinden verwerkt en niet heeft afgebakend welke soorten persoonsgegevens het bedrijf voor elk van deze doeleinden verwerkt. Omdat het bij volledige telemetrie ook gegevens betreft van gevoelige aard, en het belang van Microsoft bij deze gegevensverwerking niet opweegt tegen het recht op bescherming van de persoonlijke levenssfeer van betrokkenen, voldoet het bedrijf niet aan het noodzakelijkheidsvereiste. Microsoft zou wel een grondslag kunnen verkrijgen voor de beperkte gegevensverwerking bij standaard telemetrie, mits dit de standaardinstelling zou zijn, en gebruikers aparte toestemming konden geven voor de verwerking van deze gegevens voor het verbeteren van de producten en diensten van Microsoft en de twee reclame-doeleinden.

 

English (via Google Translate):

Microsoft also could not and did not pass the full telemetry standard setting
rely on the foundations 'necessary to represent a legitimate interest' (Article 8,
under f, of the Wbp) and 'necessary for the execution of an agreement' (Article 8, under b, of the Wbp)
Wbp). This is primarily because Microsoft is acting in violation of the Telecommunications Act
not obtain consent prior to collecting data stored on it
device. Therefore, Microsoft could not and does not have recourse to its legitimate interest. Furthermore applies
that Microsoft processes the telemetry data for different purposes and has not defined it
what types of personal data the company processes for each of these purposes. Because it's at
full telemetry also involves sensitive data, and Microsoft's interest in this
data processing does not outweigh the right to the protection of the privacy of
parties involved, the company does not fulfill the necessity requirement. Microsoft would be a foundation
for the limited data processing with standard telemetry, provided this is the
standard setting, and users could give separate permission for processing this
data for improving the products and services of Microsoft and the two advertising purposes.

 

This forum has a sizable EU members with many of them are from the Netherlands. They are free to literally translate the entire document to prove otherwise.

Informed consent requires all the information, you can call it false advertising, lying by omission but its the same thingm, they did not give consumers enough information in an appropriate manner for them to be able to give informed consent.  If you read through the documents MS did disclose all the data that they collected and the DPA did not find data outside of that which is already documented, what they found was that the data collection was way to severe for the options and information given to consumers.

 

I actually don't disagree with the DPA finding,  but I still doubt this new move is about the DPA investigation (as that can be resolved by putting in appropriate warnings),  I do think this is more about easing peoples minds with all the press and PR they have been getting over it.

[Arika]

"Microsoft aren't honest about their telemetry"

 

*makes telemetry data viewable*

 

"bullshit, they wouldnt tell us this this is lies"

 

seriously what the actual fuck is wrong with this forum. you ask for something, you get it and claim it's bull shit/lies. What do these companies have to do to appease you?

 

Same thing happen in the thread about NVidia asking retails to not sell to miners.

 

People want manufacturers to have stock for gamers, NVidia asked not to sell to miners, this forum calls it PR Stunt bullshit

[mr moose]

15 minutes ago, Kherm said:

I'm amazed that people are complaining that this is somehow not enough or not honest.

 

2 minutes ago, Sierra Fox said:

"Microsoft aren't honest about their telemetry"

 

*makes telemetry data viewable*

 

"bullshit, they wouldnt tell us this this is lies"

 

seriously what the actual fuck is wrong with this forum. you ask for something, you get it and claim it's bull shit/lies. What do these companies have to do to appease you?

 

Same thing happen in the thread about NVidia asking retails to not sell to miners.

 

People want manufacturers to have stock for gamers, NVidia asked not to sell to miners, this forum calls it PR Stunt bullshit

 

Human survival instincts make it much easier to be scared and suspect than look at the bigger picture.  

[captain_to_fire]

2 minutes ago, Sierra Fox said:

seriously what the actual fuck is wrong with this forum. you ask for something, you get it and claim it's bull shit/lies. What do these companies have to do to appease you?

It's called customer care bruh.

[vanished]

3 minutes ago, Sierra Fox said:

"Microsoft aren't honest about their telemetry"

 

*makes telemetry data viewable*

 

"bullshit, they wouldnt tell us this this is lies"

 

seriously what the actual fuck is wrong with this forum. you ask for something, you get it and claim it's bull shit/lies. What do these companies have to do to appease you?

 

Same thing happen in the thread about NVidia asking retails to not sell to miners.

 

People want manufacturers to have stock for gamers, NVidia asked not to sell to miners, this forum calls it PR Stunt bullshit

When they've already lied before, it casts doubt over anything they do on the same subject in the future.  And they have lied before, about at the least how anonymous the data is, if not about straight up what was collected.

 

Furthermore, they appear to be showing the raw output, as it would be when microsoft receives it, rather than the source of what was put into it.  That might seem like a good thing, but as mentioned, it obfuscates or at least can obfuscate what all it includes.

[Kherm]

4 minutes ago, Sierra Fox said:

What do these companies have to do to appease you?

Microsoft would literally have to release a version of Windows without a Store, live tiles, and an XP-style Windows Update system where have to go to a website to download new updates, and no included browser.

[Dabombinable]

3 minutes ago, Kherm said:

Microsoft would literally have to release a version of Windows without a Store, live tiles, and an XP-style Windows Update system where have to go to a website to download new updates, and no included browser.

You mean Windows 7 style. Windows XP's update system wasn't as good.

[vanished]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

You mean Windows 7 style. Windows XP's update system wasn't as good.

I would like a hybrid personally... mostly Windows 7 style, but once it is finally time for a reboot, let me schedule it like Windows 10 rather than just having a drop down to delay it by 10 mins, 1 hour, or 4 hours.

 

5 minutes ago, Kherm said:

Microsoft would literally have to release a version of Windows without a Store, live tiles, and an XP-style Windows Update system where have to go to a website to download new updates, and no included browser.

Why would you want to have to manually download from their website?  That's just a nuisance.  Also, you'll have to go back farther than XP to find a version of Windows that worked like that

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Also, you'll have to go back farther than XP to find a version of Windows that worked like that

XP's updates ran through IE

 

[Kherm]

Just now, Captain Chaos said:

XP's updates ran through IE

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I knew I wasn't dreaming! 

[vanished]

3 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

XP's updates ran through IE

 

 

  Hide contents

 

I used it for 9 years and I've never seen that screen before.  It would just let me know they were ready, I would say go, and then later it would install at shutdown.

 

Edit: this looks familiar

Edited January 25, 2018 by Ryan_Vickers

[Dabombinable]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

I used it for 9 years and I've never seen that screen before.  It would just let me know they were ready, I would say go, and then later it would install at shutdown.

I think they are talking of the manual alternative....which was useless once they dropped proper support for IE6 from their website.

[Kherm]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I used it for 9 years and I've never seen that screen before.  It would just let me know they were ready, I would say go, and then later it would install at shutdown.

That was called Automatic Updates. If you wanted to pick and choose, you had to go to a webpage.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

It would just let me know they were ready, I would say go, and then later it would install at shutdown.

It did indeed have the option to automatically install or tell you when they were ready, but if you did the updates manually it all went through IE. 

[vanished]

2 minutes ago, Kherm said:

That was called Automatic Updates. If you wanted to pick and choose, you had to go to a webpage.

 

2 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

It did indeed have the option to automatically install or tell you when they were ready, but if you did the updates manually it all went through IE. 

I found a picture that looks like what I remember and posted above... what is that then?  You can pick and choose in that list.

 

I definitely recall manually reviewing the list, and choosing when to let it download/install.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I used it for 9 years and I've never seen that screen before.  It would just let me know they were ready, I would say go, and then later it would install at shutdown.

You didn't have to but if you wanted to check what was being offered and be selective about it the interface to do that was with IE and that website. XP computers controlled by WSUS was different but not applicable to most people here.