Steve Burke (Gamer Nexus) explanes the lack of mini itx AM4 motherboards

[Dabombinable]

29 minutes ago, Energycore said:

SLI requires a specific chip for its own purpose that costs money (nvidia sells it) so it's mostly left out of less than high-end boards. Even some Z370 motherboards don't support it.

 

https://www.pcper.com/news/Motherboards/AMD-Supports-CrossFire-B350-and-X370-Chipsets-However-SLI-Limited-X370

I still remember the modified Nvidia driver that allowed SLI with some GPU (I think it was up to and including Kepler) on boards with only Crossfire support, and x16 slots that worked at x8 when 2 cards were plugged in. Good times.

Edit: BTW, that was back when Nvidia nForce chipsets were a thing

[PlayStation 2]

35 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

Typical, fuck Nvidia.

To be fair to Nvidia, SLI and Crossfire do work in different ways that probably would call for SLI needing its own chip for it.

[NumLock21]

4 hours ago, Energycore said:

X370 supports SLI whereas B350 does not. That's the most important, the other differences are a bit more PCIe Gen2 lanes / SATA connections. I think SLI is important enough that motherboard vendors want to keep selling X370 motherboards.

The A320 and A350 are actually gen 3.

[dizmo]

I think they made X series boards just because they sound better and people who want "the best" are more likely to buy them; I think the same for their release of boards with full fledged chipsets instead of the ones that were made for smaller form factor boards.

 

It's great to see an explanation on the lack of boards, though it being that much more difficult isn't the answer I wanted to hear. I would have been happier hearing they were just lazy and wanted to see how well Ryzen would sell I still hope they change their cooler mount. It takes way too much space.

 

I have to say, that's a very impressive write up for a new member. Congrats.

[AlTech]

5 hours ago, Energycore said:

I don't think he is, because of this claim which refers to the same motherboards with different chipsets, which happens a lot on mATX and ATX models.

And because I don't think there is an X370 motherboard yet available. All B350

Nope there's tons of them. 

[Notional]

7 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

I'm seeing a serious lack of right angled+stacked SATA sockets.

Good. They suck on ITX builds, as you often don't have much, if any free space next to the mobo.

[Dabombinable]

30 minutes ago, Notional said:

Good. They suck on ITX builds, as you often don't have much, if any free space next to the mobo.

Who says that they need to point towards the edge.....

[goodtofufriday]

14 hours ago, JDE said:

I think he's talking about ITX boards, where SLI wouldn't matter.

 

14 hours ago, Energycore said:

I don't think he is, because of this claim which refers to the same motherboards with different chipsets, which happens a lot on mATX and ATX models.

And because I don't think there is an X370 motherboard yet available. All B350

If talking about ITX these boards with x370 chipset CAN support SLI/Crossfire with bifurcation. This allows two cards to use the same pcie socket. Asrock has at least one it's board with it. Not sure if others personally. 

[Doobeedoo]

Well that's interesting though. Extra pcb layer. Maybe something to do with infinity fabric and memory. 

[mariushm]

12 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

b350 supports crossfire, I dont see why it wouldnt support SLI

Crossfire can work with one pci-e x16 from cpu and one pci-e x4 (electrically, x16 physical) from chipset.

SLI requires minimum x8 slots and only x370 chipset allows splitting the x16 in 2 x8

 

B350 chipset offers only 6 pci-e v2.0 lanes, while the x370 chipset offers 8... so x370 gives manufacturers more flexibility (like having gigabit lan onboard, audio onboard, some miniPCIe slot for wireless card, maybe an extra usb 3 / usb 3.1 gen 2 controller , and STILL have a pci-e x4 slot available if needed, or a bunch of x1 slots.

 

The smaller chipsets  x300, a300, a320 don't have usb 3.1 gen 2 and only have 4 pci-e v3.0 lanes so really low on everything. Not worth it for probably saving 2-3$ on the chipset.

 

I can see why ITX boards would require extra layers ... this means they can't simply adapt existing mATX and ATX designs to ITX by moving some traces around, they have to work on the design, which means more engineering hours and more testing and certifications and more expensive circuit board to manufacture, makes sense.

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 hour ago, Doobeedoo said:

Well that's interesting though. Extra pcb layer. Maybe something to do with infinity fabric and memory. 

It doesn't make sense to me why an extra PCB layer is needed, even for that reason. The only thing I can think of is needing a beefier ground plane or something since there's less area to go around but you're still asking for practically the same power distributed throughout.

 

I dunno. I'm not a EE person.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

18 hours ago, Energycore said:

X370 supports SLI whereas B350 does not. That's the most important, the other differences are a bit more PCIe Gen2 lanes / SATA connections. I think SLI is important enough that motherboard vendors want to keep selling X370 motherboards.

How can SLI, CrossFireX, or any Multi-GPU solution a thing for a mini ITX, single PCIe slot motherboard? 

[Drak3]

6 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

How can SLI, CrossFireX, or any Multi-GPU solution a thing for a mini ITX, single PCIe slot motherboard? 

PCIe M.2/miniPCIe to ×16 slot adapter.

[mariushm]

4 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

How can SLI, CrossFireX, or any Multi-GPU solution a thing for a mini ITX, single PCIe slot motherboard? 

It may be possible to use an adapter to convert the M.2 x4 lanes into a pci-e x4 slot : https://www.ebay.com/itm/NGFF-to-PCI-Express-4x-slot-Adapter-M-Key-M-2-to-PCI-e-x4-interface-Riser-Card-/121912960082

 

Though  i'm not sure you can actually run video cards using that. 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

Just now, mariushm said:

It may be possible to use an adapter to convert the M.2 x4 lanes into a pci-e x4 slot : https://www.ebay.com/itm/NGFF-to-PCI-Express-4x-slot-Adapter-M-Key-M-2-to-PCI-e-x4-interface-Riser-Card-/121912960082

 

Though  i'm not sure you can actually run video cards using that. 

But even then, is that really the audicence for ITX builds? I mean, you need a case with room for two GPUs, yet it can't fit a mATX board, plus you spend extra on adapters that give your mere x4 for CFX (AFAIK no SLI with x4)? And it may not work?

What I mean is, can that chipset feature be a selling point for the ITX crowd at all? Or are they simply going for people without a clue assuming they'll get some unspecified benefit from the higher number in the chpset's model?

[mariushm]

3 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

But even then, is that really the audicence for ITX builds? I mean, you need a case with room for two GPUs, yet it can't fit a mATX board, plus you spend extra on adapters that give your mere x4 for CFX (AFAIK no SLI with x4)? And it may not work?

What I mean is, can that chipset feature be a selling point for the ITX crowd at all? Or are they simply going for people without a clue assuming they'll get some unspecified benefit from the higher number in the chpset's model?

No, probably not.

But I think the reason why x370 is preferred is  2 usb 3.1 gen 2 vs 1 on b350 , and 8 pci-e v2.0 lanes compared to just 6 on b350.  More flexibility , easier routing to onboard components, less money to spend on extra usb controllers , option to add second nvme m.2 slot using those pci-e lanes etc... 6 is pretty restrictive

[Mira Yurizaki]

30 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

How can SLI, CrossFireX, or any Multi-GPU solution a thing for a mini ITX, single PCIe slot motherboard? 

Riser with a PCIe switch, but that's clunky at best.