[added analysis] October Steam survey: Windows 10 loses 17.3% market share, Windows 7 gains 23.7% market share

[michaelocarroll007]

15 hours ago, FIXXX said:

Really don't see issues with Windows 10 on my side. 

Switched as soon as the free upgrade was available.

Yeah i prefer it. Its much better for regular use / Being productive with Snaping around Windows tabs and such. and is just much cleaner and more modern feeling. i have windows 7 at a work desktop and have to use 3rd party programs for snaping windows and it just doesnt work as good as built in Windows 10 across mutiple monitors 

 

Obviously all the sketchy parts of data mining is the big negative. OS wise its better in almost everyway IMO but many people dont like to leave what they know hence why Windows XP took forever to go down. 

[Dabombinable]

5 minutes ago, michaelocarroll007 said:

Yeah i prefer it. Its much better for regular use / Being productive with Snaping around Windows tabs and such. and is just much cleaner and more modern feeling. i have windows 7 at a work desktop and have to use 3rd party programs for snaping windows and it just doesnt work as good as built in Windows 10 across mutiple monitors 

 

Obviously all the sketchy parts of data mining is the big negative. OS wise its better in almost everyway IMO but many people dont like to leave what they know hence why Windows XP took forever to go down. 

Look at the mess that was Vista-its no wonder why people took so long to leave Windows XP (with the main barrier in the end begin software+hardware support for a lot of businesses).

[Sauron]

10 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

• Windows 10 as a whole broke DirectX 9 for the majority of games that use it

Honestly I've experienced none of that. Most of my old games work just fine and many work better than they did on 7 (especially with aero enabled), and I haven't experienced any performance issues at boot or in normal operation. As for ENB, I don't think we can blame windows 10 for not supporting unofficial graphics mods for select games that rely on legacy libraries... it's up to their developers to fix potential issues or find a workaround.

7 hours ago, Hellion said:

So a single feature that can be mitigated via the solutions you already mentioned is worth the dozens of negatives Windows 10 has?

 

Not to mention, in my experience most serious developers have seperate machines for this purpose.

I struggle to see the "dozens of negatives" that are not just as bad on every other windows version. Windows is poorly designed as a whole and it has always been. I get the impression many of the w10 specific haters are just unwilling to leave what they are used to (windows 7) and are looking for issues in 10 to justify their resistance to change - even though windows 7 has a slew of problems of its own, many of which are in common with 10. In over 2 years now, I can't recall a single moment where I thought "oh, this worked way better on windows 7, I wish I hadn't upgraded" - and I do quite a variety of things.

 

If you don't like what microsoft is doing, put your money where your mouth is and use something else, namely a linux distribution. Using any version of windows still plays in their hand, even if they'd rather you used windows 10. Furthermore, eventually windows 7 will no longer be supported, and the longer you delay the inevitable upgrade, the more problems you'll have when you are forced to do it. Just look at windows xp. Even if the more technically oriented will do just fine, the truth is most people still using windows 7 don't fall into that category (statistically it would be impossible).

[Doobeedoo]

It's just Steam though? Also China large numbers may be not upgraded systems on os side. Bit odd and info. Seems it's missing some more info really. 

 

Really have no issue with W10 at works great and fast so. 

[michaelocarroll007]

1 hour ago, Dabombinable said:

Look at the mess that was Vista-its no wonder why people took so long to leave Windows XP (with the main barrier in the end begin software+hardware support for a lot of businesses).

Yeah but lets be honest 7 was out a long time before being adopted well in the business world. Skipping vista did make a decent amount of sense.  

[AncientNerd]

This all reminds me of the Win95/98 to XP upgrade debates, and the XP to Win7 debates that happened...everyone who is arguing for staying on Windows 7 is using the same arguments that the people who said we should all stay on Windows 95/98 rather than upgrade to Windows XP used. Then the same arguments that the people who refused to upgrade from XP to Windows 7 used. In fact if any of you are old enough I would not be surprised if some of you are the same people that used the arguments back then. "XP breaks my DOS games", "XP is buggy as heck", "You loose support for direct access to memory with XP", "Windows 7 breaks all of my XP drivers", "Windows 7 is buggy as heck", "Windows 7 breaks my graphics card". "You loose feature XXX with Windows XP (or Windows 7)".

 

You all sound the same as the people who didn't want to upgrade then oh and the "Window XP makes me install upgrades", "Windows 7 makes me install upgrades". Both of these enforced stronger rules on installing upgrades than the previous versions and it was harder to turn down/off the upgrade installation. So for anyone who has been using an operating system for more than one upgrade cycle this should not be a surprise, this is the way the world is going and it has been for 40+ years.

[Delicieuxz]

1 hour ago, AncientNerd said:

This all reminds me of the Win95/98 to XP upgrade debates, and the XP to Win7 debates that happened...everyone who is arguing for staying on Windows 7 is using the same arguments that the people who said we should all stay on Windows 95/98 rather than upgrade to Windows XP used. Then the same arguments that the people who refused to upgrade from XP to Windows 7 used. In fact if any of you are old enough I would not be surprised if some of you are the same people that used the arguments back then. "XP breaks my DOS games", "XP is buggy as heck", "You loose support for direct access to memory with XP",

By around this time after its release, Windows XP was on SP1, and was pretty solid.

 

Quote

"Windows 7 breaks all of my XP drivers", "Windows 7 is buggy as heck", "Windows 7 breaks my graphics card". "You loose feature XXX with Windows XP (or Windows 7)".

It was going from XP to Vista that resulted in many people having driver issues. Microsoft addressed that with Windows 7 by including a vast library of built-in drivers with the OS, and by coordinating with hardware manufacturers to have Windows 7 drivers ready.

 

Quote

You all sound the same as the people who didn't want to upgrade then oh and the "Window XP makes me install upgrades", "Windows 7 makes me install upgrades". Both of these enforced stronger rules on installing upgrades than the previous versions and it was harder to turn down/off the upgrade installation.

Actually, Windows XP, Vista, and Windows 7 offer the exact same basic update settings, while Windows 7 includes some additional control settings. It is easy to turn off updates in any of them.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

So for anyone who has been using an operating system for more than one upgrade cycle this should not be a surprise, this is the way the world is going and it has been for 40+ years.

The lack of control, the lack of privacy, the built-in data-thieving from Microsoft, the settings configurations resetting after each major update, the in-OS ads, are all particular to Windows 10. If the only issues were the bugs, and the bad start menu, there would be far, far less complaints over Windows 10. But Windows 10 features a large package of many very bad things.

[vanished]

Knowing how the results of that survey look, I wouldn't be surprised if tons of people got together just to troll it.  It's full of questionable things like absurd resolutions that make you swear someone custom made one just to mess with it, and showing iGPUs as the post popular when obviously that's not the case for people using Steam (playing games).

 

Edit: Looking closer now I see even more questionable things... it shows nvidia and Intel's market share taking off recently, despite the positive reception of Ryzen and Polaris... seems odd doesn't it?

 

Also look at that incredible instability in the Win 10 vs Win 10 Pro numbers (Actually does that say 10 Pro or Pre-10?  I can't tell... regardless it should not fluctuate that much)!  Wtf?  Not to mention it seems to show Win 10 as a whole gaining strength, not losing it... and the chart numbers don't match the table numbers shown below...

[Dylanc1500]

Maybe I'm a little off in my own curiosity but I noticed XP (32-bit) but not 64-bit. I'm kind of curious on the stats for that.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

15 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

Maybe I'm a little off in my own curiosity but I noticed XP (32-bit) but not 64-bit. I'm kind of curious on the stats for that.

The 64-bit version of XP never was much of a success TBH.  It's quite rare to see someone using that. 

[Spenser1337]

On 11/5/2017 at 3:20 PM, themctipers said:

csgo in china or something no more crossfire's pay to win boobs

 

$10 or so, also has a smaller hitbox, runs faster, and comes with a fucking gun and knife!

Csgo is free in china

[IceCold008]

Still rocking windows 7 for now. But in the future will have to go windows 10 when microcrap oops i mean microsoft stops updating windows 7. TBH im not looking forward to using the most ugly windows version going. 

[AncientNerd]

2 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

By around this time after its release, Windows XP was on SP1, and was pretty solid.

 

Sorry but the only reason that we are not on "SP1" of Windows 10 is that MS has chosen not to call its updates by anything except Windows 10, and it is just as solid as XP SP1 was. You are looking through rose colored glasses. XP had to be rebooted every week or so and had OS level memory leaks that brought it down after at most a month. I can leave a Win 10 machine up for several months at a time - until my last update it was up for 3 months w/o needing to shutdown at all.

Quote

It was going from XP to Vista that resulted in many people having driver issues. Microsoft addressed that with Windows 7 by including a vast library of built-in drivers with the OS, and by coordinating with hardware manufacturers to have Windows 7 drivers ready.

Wow - you are remembering this differently than I am. Yes Win 7 had a "vast" library of drivers if you were using fairly standard hardware. A good third of the network cards that we tried to run in Win 7 the first year needed to be replaced because they were not compatible - these were cards that had run fine in XP. This was not just a Vista issue, it was a Win 7 issue as well. I am not even talking about custom blue tooth drivers or low level disk drivers that basically forced staying with XP for several years after Win 7 was released. Which I know existed because I was working for a company that tried to upgrade to Win 7 and couldn't because their disk drivers would fail on 7 even though they were listed as "supported"

 

Quote

Actually, Windows XP, Vista, and Windows 7 offer the exact same basic update settings, while Windows 7 includes some additional control settings. It is easy to turn off updates in any of them.

Sigh, "basic" settings. The security updates for Windows 7 always force installed if you were attached to the internet - you couldn't turn this off except by blocking Microsoft updater completely or turning off updates completely. If you allowed any updates the security level updates always happened. They just didn't tell you about it like they do with Windows 10. This was something that we had to be aware of and deal with when setting up for locked down environments in Airports, Military Installations and Factories.

Quote

The lack of control, the lack of privacy, the built-in data-thieving from Microsoft, the settings configurations resetting after each major update, the in-OS ads, are all particular to Windows 10. If the only issues were the bugs, and the bad start menu, there would be far, far less complaints over Windows 10. But Windows 10 features a large package of many very bad things.

The major difference is that MS is telling you about it most of the telemetry that they are collecting has not changed since the last few versions of Windows 7. It is less than Google, Apple, Facebook or Amazon collect when you are using their OS or applications and yet Microsoft gets bitched about and the rest? In-OS ads? Any more than Apple or Android? I haven't noticed any more of this than on my Android devices or the iOS devices of family and friends that I interact with. 

 

The settings thing is annoying and I wish they didn't do that but heck, Android does this every damn time I upgrade a application not just when I upgrade the OS - I loose all the settings on the application. At least Win 10 keeps my application settings when I upgrade an application. 

[Delicieuxz]

You're right, we do have a different memory of things.

 

For example, I can tell you that this:

Quote

Sigh, "basic" settings. The security updates for Windows 7 always force installed if you were attached to the internet - you couldn't turn this off except by blocking Microsoft updater completely or turning off updates completely. If you allowed any updates the security level updates always happened. They just didn't tell you about it like they do with Windows 10.

Is simply false. The basic settings in Windows XP, Vista, and 7, are more comprehensive than Windows 10s options, allowing for full control over updates. And they all allow for the complete shut-off of updates with a click. The Windows Update settings in Windows XP, Vista, and 7 don't hide intentions or lack of responsiveness behind carefully-crafted wording, and they all do exactly what they say.

 

I'm still running Windows 7 on my system. There's not now, nor has there ever been a need to do anything to disable Windows Update searching for and installing updates other than selecting the option that says to not check for updates. That's it.

 

Also, Windows Update in Windows XP, Vista, and 7 have traditionally given a person more information about what's being installed than the updates in Windows 10. However, that changed since Windows 10's release, with Windows 7's updates now being rolled up into one package, and being as uninformative as Windows 10's updates. Windows 7's security updates can still be downloaded separately through WSUS.

 

21 hours ago, AncientNerd said:

Sorry but the only reason that we are not on "SP1" of Windows 10 is that MS has chosen not to call its updates by anything except Windows 10, and it is just as solid as XP SP1 was. You are looking through rose colored glasses. XP had to be rebooted every week or so and had OS level memory leaks that brought it down after at most a month. I can leave a Win 10 machine up for several months at a time - until my last update it was up for 3 months w/o needing to shutdown at all.

A big difference between prior Windows OS versions' service packs and the Windows 10 bi-annual major updates is that prior Windows OS' service packs each progressively made the OS more solid - while Windows 10 bi-annual major updates make the OS more bloated (probably with the aim of creating new data-generating streams for Microsoft to harvest and profit off of), introduce new issues, reset settings, take away settings, and leave many issues that have been around since Windows 10 released. Sure, some things get better, but there is no comparison with these bi-annual major updates to the well-tested, and reliably improving service pack updates of prior Windows OSes.

 

Quote

Wow - you are remembering this differently than I am. Yes Win 7 had a "vast" library of drivers if you were using fairly standard hardware. A good third of the network cards that we tried to run in Win 7 the first year needed to be replaced because they were not compatible - these were cards that had run fine in XP.

Windows XP and Windows 7 are two entirely different OSes. So, naturally, you had to install Windows 7-specific drivers - but they were available to be installed. That's a non-issue, and not comparable to the issues people are complaining about having with Windows 10 - which also generally needs new drivers to be installed.

[ApolloFury]

19 hours ago, mr moose said:

I wonder what changes they made to it?

The link I included has a list some changes, mostly just removing Communism (yes communism) and "offensive" symbols in maps and character models.

EDIT: http://counterstrike.wikia.com/wiki/Counter-Strike:_Global_Offensive_Perfect_World#Differences 

[Hellion]

On 11/6/2017 at 2:29 AM, RagnarokDel said:

That's cause Nvidia cards only support some Dx12 features via software instead of hardware.

Which is exactly the point I'm making.

 

He claims to "need" DX12 because it's "faster" which is completely not true at this point in time.

 

He's attempting to drum up a "feature" that's not really a feature because there's no appreciable difference.

 

On 11/6/2017 at 4:40 AM, laminutederire said:

Well they can if they want. It remains convenient to use git easily like that with the console. Or to compile something in less than 30 seconds just to look how well a specific function works, or how fast etc.

Serious developers just want something fast, and this is certainly faster than separate machines in many cases where you have to experiment since you can be done by the time needed to transfer the files from one computer to the other.

 

Well you're the one having an issue with it. W10 has worked flawlessly in all machines I own since the beginning. The upgrade processes are fine, and they just get faster each update. I' not worried about being spied on since I live in a real country where there are laws and organizations protecting me. The UI is fine and I do the same things faster than I did previously.

I don't like cortana, so I just disabled it. And finally, it's the first time my parent's computers are finally up to date, which is the intended purpose of upgrades: to be installed.

So I could get back to you and ask: are those real negatives or are they just negative in you opinion?

If you truly believe the bolded then that's a very naive opinion. Outside of Switzerland there's really no country on the planet that truly makes security/privacy a priority putting the majority of the responsibility upon the individual. Down playing how important that factor is alone without even diving into the other examples previously mentioned leaves me to strongly believe that anyone defending Windows 10 lives in denial for the sake of being "modern". The older I get, the more I realize that newer isn't always better. A concept that appears to be lost on a forum such as this one where the newest gimmicky flavor of the month is deemed king.

 

The term "up to date" is very subjective when all of the new crap and bloatware that takes place as part of this process is unnecessary garbage that very few users actually have a need for.

 

I specifically asked for examples of features that are Windows 10 exclusive. So far you have provided one that as I've already stated can be done via other means. So I will ask you again to come up with an extensive list that out weighs the many negatives of Windows 10. So far it’s a loss by a land slide.

 

 

On 11/6/2017 at 8:18 AM, Sauron said:

Honestly I've experienced none of that. Most of my old games work just fine and many work better than they did on 7 (especially with aero enabled), and I haven't experienced any performance issues at boot or in normal operation. As for ENB, I don't think we can blame windows 10 for not supporting unofficial graphics mods for select games that rely on legacy libraries... it's up to their developers to fix potential issues or find a workaround.

I struggle to see the "dozens of negatives" that are not just as bad on every other windows version. Windows is poorly designed as a whole and it has always been. I get the impression many of the w10 specific haters are just unwilling to leave what they are used to (windows 7) and are looking for issues in 10 to justify their resistance to change - even though windows 7 has a slew of problems of its own, many of which are in common with 10. In over 2 years now, I can't recall a single moment where I thought "oh, this worked way better on windows 7, I wish I hadn't upgraded" - and I do quite a variety of things.

 

If you don't like what microsoft is doing, put your money where your mouth is and use something else, namely a linux distribution. Using any version of windows still plays in their hand, even if they'd rather you used windows 10. Furthermore, eventually windows 7 will no longer be supported, and the longer you delay the inevitable upgrade, the more problems you'll have when you are forced to do it. Just look at windows xp. Even if the more technically oriented will do just fine, the truth is most people still using windows 7 don't fall into that category (statistically it would be impossible).

Depends where your priorities lie. The exact same thing could be said for those that installed windows 10.

 

While I agree that Windows as a whole has not been great since the very early days, for those that are either lazy or aren't tech savvy enough to go another route but still have morals/values on how they will be treated by a company after making an investment in their product, you are left with the option to choose the lesser of evils.

 

I personally run Mint on my home machine and dual boot Windows 7 for games that don't have native Linux support. That's besides the point though.

 

I'm still waiting for Windows 10 users to provide this magical list of features that are exclusive to that platform and actually beneficial to the majority. I've personally spent more time then I would like to admit configuring my Windows 7 install to look and function exactly as I want it to. I would be up in arms if I were to "upgrade" and have everything set back to nearly a fresh install every few months through what by default are mandatory forced updates.

 

 

On 11/6/2017 at 9:33 AM, RandomGuy13 said:

When using multiple monitors, I have do an extra click to switch between monitors. If I am going from one application on my main monitor, to another application on my secondary monitor, I have to click that application just for windows to realise that I have actually switched screens.

 

Second feature that I would miss is being able to switch audio source without having to go into the control panel.

 

The next feature that I would miss is being able to manage which programs launch on start from task manager.

 

Another feature that I am sure to miss is being able to see GPU usage from task manager.

 

 

That said, there are many things I miss about windows 7. Like how all the settings are in control panel, Where as In windows 10 there are some in settings and some in control panel. I still prefer the control panel to the new settings menu, And I have a lot of complaints about the new Network and Sharing centre.

 

I also miss not being able to turn my computer off by purely using the keyboard. It used to be Windows + Up Arrow + Enter.  I have come up with a solution for this, which is pressing alt + F4 on the desktop which is a nice touch.

 

And one other thing, Windows 10 so annoying when it comes to installing drivers. Sometimes It wont let me chose my own driver for a device, it insists on downloading the latest one. I am sick of the bloatware that is installed and that if you uninstall the bloatware it comes back.

 

There are a ton of problems with the start menu, The windows 7 start menu was perfect and just worked.

 

There are probably more things that I am forgetting so I might edit this post later.

Not sure what your definition of "exclusive" is but based on a dictionary it would indicate a feature that isn't available on any other form of Windows at all. I'm not just talking natively.

 

- There's a program for that called "DisplayFusion". You can even find cracked versions for free.

 

- Don't see how having to make 3-4 more mouse clicks is an issue. From my experience as long as all the devices stay connected to your machine simply turning the secondary device on will automatically have Windows 7 provide it with an audio signal depending on how it's connected (I haven't tried this other then with Display Port and HDMI).Then you can either choose to continue using both the audio output to the PC speakers and the secondary device together or mute whichever you don't want to use. Doesn't seem like an issue to me.

 

- Not really a feature when you can do so either via msconfig/registry tweak/dragging the program into a "start" folder.

 

-This is brand new only to the newest build of Windows 10 and has been available via third party programs for years that are free to download.

 

 

Other then DX12 which is exclusive to only 3 games to date apparently, there doesn't seem to be any benefits over 7 for example.

 

Your list alone if actually considered "features" provides more negatives then positives.

[laminutederire]

4 hours ago, Hellion said:

 

Ahah then good thing I'm a French citizen living in Switzerland then

I could say that people defending tooth and nail w7 are just as bad because they bitch about w10's telemetry while they have the same telemetry anyway...

At some point you better get the new stuff when it's just as bad on that front but provides new features anyway.

You're being so biased it's pitiful. A feature isn't present if you have to use a paid software for it. And don't tell me you can crack it, it doesn't count if you have to break laws or pay for a feature to be there. Otherwise GTA V is a feature of Windows because you can buy it on Windows. Which is a ridiculous statement.

 

For the features, the Linux subsystem is a unique feature of w10 that you cannot replicate with VM or dual boots exactly. The reason why is that it runs seamlessly with the Windows system, with easier file sharing etc. . You cannot do that with Vms without more painfully set it up beforehand.

 

There are many things which can be done on any operating system non-natively. But when it's native, it is often faster or Easier, and that is something important. Otherwise I'd argue Linux is the superior OS and you shouldn't be on w7 for the sole reason you can do more things with Linux based systems. The reason people do not use it as much is because it's often harder to make it work even if it is possible. That's why registry edit versus non registry edit enabled features is something that counts. Because if you have to make extra steps to do those things, most people won't do these and it won't be a feature got them. That's the difference between.1 click and 3 to 4 clicks to do the same thing. From a user interaction standpoint it's often worse. You can yourself accept to do those, but if you had the choice you'd choose the easiest way if the result is exactly the same. You live in a mind framework where anything to avoid w10 by using additional software or methods with less accordance is better, so of course we won't change your mind. That just leaves you on the unconstructive side of the argument.

Being up-to-date is important for non techy users. Example being with ransomware strains for instance.it was important to be up-to-date then, and most non tech peiple on w10 were thanks to that. And now the update process is less annoying since the last big update, which makes it less annoying than it was both on w7 and earlier version of w10. Less downtime but still updates. Here you have a feature which outweigh negatives, that is if you want to accept it.

 

[AncientNerd]

14 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

You're right, we do have a different memory of things.

 

For example, I can tell you that this:

Is simply false. The basic settings in Windows XP, Vista, and 7, are more comprehensive than Windows 10s options, allowing for full control over updates. And they all allow for the complete shut-off of updates with a click. The Windows Update settings in Windows XP, Vista, and 7 don't hide intentions or lack of responsiveness behind carefully-crafted wording, and they all do exactly what they say.

 

I'm still running Windows 7 on my system. There's not now, nor has there ever been a need to do anything to disable Windows Update searching for and installing updates other than selecting the option that says to not check for updates. That's it.

 

Also, Windows Update in Windows XP, Vista, and 7 have traditionally given a person more information about what's being installed than the updates in Windows 10. However, that changed with Windows 10, with Windows 7's updates now being rolled up into one package, and being as uninformative as Windows 10's updates. Windows 7's security updates can still be downloaded separately through WSUS.

 

A big difference between prior Windows OS versions' service packs and the Windows 10 bi-annual major updates is that prior Windows OS' service packs each progressively made the OS more solid - while Windows 10 bi-annual major updates make the OS more bloated (probably with the aim of creating new data-generating streams for Microsoft to harvest and profit off of), introduce new issues, reset settings, take away settings, and leave many issues that have been around since Windows 10 released. Sure, some things get better, but there is no comparison with these bi-annual major updates to the well-tested, and reliably improving service pack updates of prior Windows OSes.

 

Windows XP and Windows 7 are two entirely different OSes. So, naturally, you had to install Windows 7-specific drivers - but they were available to be installed. That's a non-issue, and not comparable to the issues people are complaining about having with Windows 10 - which also generally needs new drivers to be installed.

Okay Just one more general comment - you are looking at Windows 7 through rose colored glasses. It is very obvious, your last statement makes that clear. Each version of an operating system (or any software) goes through the same growth and bug fix curve this has always been true. 

Quote

prior Windows OS' service packs each progressively made the OS more solid

is not true, there were always bugs and people complaining about issues when a SP came out. Win 7 SP1 was horrid when it first came out, it took two hot fixes to get it stable and for a good 6 months the recommendation was not to install it because it was crap. Give me a break you are looking back from the perspective of using a OS that has all of the service packs and hot fixes up to date, you are used to and is configured the way you want, I get it you love Win 7, but I also think you are over reacting to Windows 10. It is really a logical progression from earlier operating systems, compared to the competing products and the target market (Android, iOS, Chrome OS) it is a better choice in my opinion. But you obviously disagree and are willing to use an older unsupported operating system to avoid it.

[leadeater]

On 11/7/2017 at 5:44 AM, AncientNerd said:

is not true, there were always bugs and people complaining about issues when a SP came out. Win 7 SP1 was horrid when it first came out, it took two hot fixes to get it stable and for a good 6 months the recommendation was not to install it because it was crap.

And generally no one deploys an OS service pack to the entire fleet of computers without waiting a decent amount of time to hear about the issues then test it on a pilot group first. With every OS release the service packs have gotten steadily less problematic, the Windows 10 model has deliberately done away with those huge service pack updates that change significant amounts of the OS and features for a process that focuses on more quickly releases smaller feature updates and functionality changes/fixes, the less you target the less that can break. 

 

On 11/6/2017 at 2:39 PM, Delicieuxz said:

Windows 7's security updates can still be downloaded separately through WSUS.

Only legacy/existing updates, all current updates are done through the rollups and not released as individual packages. The only exception to this, not really, is .Net updates but those were always rollups without being called as such and drivers distributed by Windows Updates but it's not hard to figure out why those are not done using the rollup method. There are still .Net rollup updates as well, just there there is a very small amount that don't come under those e.g. 

KB3186497 which is an updated offline installer for .Net.

 

And for both operating systems you can download the update rollup packages through WSUS, Windows Update Catalog or Microsoft Website.

[DutchTexan]

On 11/5/2017 at 3:23 PM, FIXXX said:

Really don't see issues with Windows 10 on my side. 

Switched as soon as the free upgrade was available.

I paid for a full key from a Microsoft store. Honestly, it's not that bad. I just wish office wasn't the expense that they push on people. Every time I do a fresh install I spend maybe 30 minutes disabling services, configuring everything and messing with the start up sequence.

 

I think the servery might not be accurate, because if you're running windows 7 you'll tell everyone you know. If you're on Windows 10, you may not mention it or even take the survey.

[FIXXX]

1 hour ago, DutchTexan said:

I think the servery might not be accurate, because if you're running windows 7 you'll tell everyone you know. If you're on Windows 10, you may not mention it or even take the survey.

I have a suspicion that it's not actually asked. There may have been some "accept" or whatever early on - and you accept - your deets are sent to the cloud. 

Saying this because after I switched to this new build (Intel to AMD) - Steam mentioned something like "Updating configuration" at first start. It doesn't do that usually.

[Hellion]

On 11/7/2017 at 9:48 AM, RandomGuy13 said:

Was this meant to be a reply to me?

When did I use the word "exclusive"?

 

I don't want cracked software on my pc. Furthermore, what if I switch to a different computer, Oh I need this proprietary software that I need to install. 

 

I don't think I mentioned anything about audio problems between multiple monitors. I was just referring to switching between audio outputs. Not very functional when I might need to use 3 different computers each day at college. I have tried Displayfusion, and I didn't find any of the features useful enough to justify me installing it.

 

In Windows 10, All I have to do to switch audio sources is

1: Click on the audio controls in the system tray.

2: Click on the current output device

3: Click on the desired output device

 

That is 3 clicks in an interface which only contains audio settings.

 

In previous versions of windows I have to.

1: Right click on the start button and click on Control Panel.

2: Find and click the Hardware and Sound button

3: Click on sound

4: Click on my desired audio source.

5: Click on the little drop down and click Default Device.

 

That is 7 Clicks and a cluttered interface for such a simple task.

 

I shouldn't have to do a registry tweak, Or search for a directory to move a file into it. Besides this would only work for applications, What about windows services. For those I would have to open up Services and find the one application I want to disable In the big long list of windows services. How is that a better option?

Everything Is available with 3rd party apps. That doesnt mean that Windows should lack nice features like this. I try and minimise the number of apps that I use, particularly proprietary ones. It makes my windows experience much better. And again its a speed thing, To load up afterburner to monitor my GPU usage I have to click multiple buttons and then search for It, only to realise that its not installed So then I have to install it and then change the skin because the default skin is awful, Only to have it move around when I am playing games.

 

Verses clicking Ctrl + Shift + Esc. And clicking on the performance tab.

 

I don't think I ever mentioned DX12, And I listed many benefits over windows 7. They might not all apply to you, But they apply to me, and if they apply to me then they will apply to other people as well.

If DX12 was the only benefit over windows 7 then basically none would be on windows 10.

 

Just because I list more positives than negatives doesnt mean that something is better than something else. It is subjective. Each point is weighted differently.

For example

Drink Driving:

Pros: 

+ Fun

+ You dont need to worry about how much to drink

+ You dont have to pay for a taxy

+ You can go to more partys

Cons:

- You get it to a Car crash, potentially killing multiple people, including your self,

 

I would say that that single Con, outweighs the Pros. Wouldn't You?

 

Clearly you misunderstood what I was looking for. When I asked for features that are only on Windows 10 that means exclusive. So far you have provided no examples of anything that Windows 10 can do over Windows 7 which confirms there's no valid reason to switch.

 

When I was mentioning audio sources, it had nothing to do with other monitors. Many devices that have a separate sound output connect via HDMI for example. If you have a specific use case, you might want to mention exactly what that is so I can actually confirm if it's a problem. Otherwise I'm left to make a generalized "fix" statement based on your lack of information when describing a self created issue of having to make 2 more mouse clicks. Based on your most recent description, I can already make a suggestion to cut down on two of those awfully terrible clicks that you describe as a "feature" just by right clicking the sound icon in the task bar.

 

So far I see a lot of excuses that come down to pure laziness. "I have to install a program that takes 10 seconds, oh no’. "I have to do a registry tweak, oh no". "I have to make two more mouse clicks, oh no"....

 

If speed is truly your concern, tell me how having to do something once and forget about it is a problem over having to go through your entire control panel to set everything back to the way it was, fix any broken drivers and uninstall multiple instances of bloatware trash every time there's an update? Not to mention a lot of the additional garbage that's caked on additionally every time there's a new update that won't even uninstall natively without having to make edits in the registry. Something you have also explained as an "issue" with Windows 7...

 

Regarding DX12, this was mentioned previously by another user and is so far (even though not really relevant to most people) the only real feature that Windows 10 has over any of the previous versions. This is what I'm seeking of all those that claim Windows 10 does more then previous editions. So I used that as an example so that you could understand my question properly.

 

 

 

On 11/7/2017 at 5:22 AM, laminutederire said:

Ahah then good thing I'm a French citizen living in Switzerland then

I could say that people defending tooth and nail w7 are just as bad because they bitch about w10's telemetry while they have the same telemetry anyway...

At some point you better get the new stuff when it's just as bad on that front but provides new features anyway.

You're being so biased it's pitiful. A feature isn't present if you have to use a paid software for it. And don't tell me you can crack it, it doesn't count if you have to break laws or pay for a feature to be there. Otherwise GTA V is a feature of Windows because you can buy it on Windows. Which is a ridiculous statement.

 

For the features, the Linux subsystem is a unique feature of w10 that you cannot replicate with VM or dual boots exactly. The reason why is that it runs seamlessly with the Windows system, with easier file sharing etc. . You cannot do that with Vms without more painfully set it up beforehand.

 

There are many things which can be done on any operating system non-natively. But when it's native, it is often faster or Easier, and that is something important. Otherwise I'd argue Linux is the superior OS and you shouldn't be on w7 for the sole reason you can do more things with Linux based systems. The reason people do not use it as much is because it's often harder to make it work even if it is possible. That's why registry edit versus non registry edit enabled features is something that counts. Because if you have to make extra steps to do those things, most people won't do these and it won't be a feature got them. That's the difference between.1 click and 3 to 4 clicks to do the same thing. From a user interaction standpoint it's often worse. You can yourself accept to do those, but if you had the choice you'd choose the easiest way if the result is exactly the same. You live in a mind framework where anything to avoid w10 by using additional software or methods with less accordance is better, so of course we won't change your mind. That just leaves you on the unconstructive side of the argument.

Being up-to-date is important for non techy users. Example being with ransomware strains for instance.it was important to be up-to-date then, and most non tech peiple on w10 were thanks to that. And now the update process is less annoying since the last big update, which makes it less annoying than it was both on w7 and earlier version of w10. Less downtime but still updates. Here you have a feature which outweigh negatives, that is if you want to accept it.

 

If you truly care about privacy you wouldn't be using Windows 10 regardless of pseudo linux integration. Switzerland can have all the privacy laws in the world but at the end of the day you are willingly allowing microshaft to harvest your data and store it on servers outside of your country to which your privacy laws have no jurisdiction.

 

Those that actually read the descriptions of updates rather then just mindlessly mashing the "install" button every time a new update pops up never had telemetry on their Windows 7 system. This was something that was added by microshaft at a later date after the release of Windows 10 in attempt to force an "upgrade". Windows 7 was not released with native telemetry, stating otherwise is simply ignorant. There are many topics on this throughout the web. It wouldn't hurt to read a couple of them if you want to educate yourself with the truth.

 

Regarding the "Windows 10 keeps you up to date for standard users" argument, I don't see how this applies here? When I contemplate using something or making a purchase I do so based on how it benefits ME. I could care less how much of the general public becomes infected by randomsware. These are the same people that will install any app on their phone without understanding the potential consequences of giving said app every single privilege imaginable. These are the same people that have no idea what a bash command is. It's an irrelevant proposal.

 

What is relevant however, is having to deal with all the bullshit of Windows 10 and claiming it's superceded by time saving "features" that outweigh the magnitude of issues when it's far more time consuming to be constantly fixing the problems it presents. I would rather take 10 seconds of my time to install a piece of third party software that does the exact same thing as Windows 10 natively (often even better) then deal with the laundry list of problems, privacy breaches and lack of control that takes place on that operating system.

 

I whole heartedly agree that linux is superior to windows. The benefit of having a say on what takes place on my system is far and above the most important aspect to me and based on your posts seems to be of high priority for you as well. That is why I can't understand your praise of Windows 10 which is the exact opposite. It's a contradiction to your comments regarding linux.

 

 

 

 

 

[leadeater]

On 11/8/2017 at 12:08 AM, Hellion said:

Many devices that have a separate sound output connect via HDMI for example. If you have a specific use case, you might want to mention exactly what that is so I can actually confirm if it's a problem. Otherwise I'm left to make a generalized "fix" statement based on your lack of information when describing a self created issue of having to make 2 more mouse clicks.

Switching between USB headphone output and an HDMI receiver for main speakers, to watch TV/Netflix/Movies. I don't have a TV at all and my computer is my main playback device for that type of content. I do have a proper blu-ray player and projector + home theater setup but I only bother with that when I want to watch "non crappy" movies.

 

Off this particular topic, you can't call a 3rd party application you have to install an OS feature. If you're talking about Windows 7 vs Windows 10 and asking for feature differences bringing non OS features in to that doesn't count, that's just goalpost shifting. I mean this specifically when talking about OS features which is what you asked to be named.

 

On 11/8/2017 at 12:41 AM, Hellion said:

This was something that was added by microshaft at a later date after the release of Windows 10 in attempt to force an "upgrade". Windows 7 was not released with native telemetry, stating otherwise is simply ignorant. There are many topics on this throughout the web. It wouldn't hurt to read a couple of them if you want to educate yourself with the truth.

With the change to how updates are delivered just installing a single rollup update after the date telemetry was added in to Windows 7 means you have it, the only way to not have it is to never update Windows 7 past that date which isn't a good idea. People do it, doesn't make it a good decision though but what ever not my problem.

[mr moose]

wow, going to the point of promoting/relying on using cracked software in order to prove 7 is better than 10.  How do you people manage normal life? you know bills and reality and stuff?

[laminutederire]

On 11/8/2017 at 1:42 AM, mr moose said:

wow, going to the point of promoting/relying on using cracked software in order to prove 7 is better than 10.  How do you people manage normal life? you know bills and reality and stuff?

I think he shoots people who try to audit his finance to keep his features secret!

 

 

Quote

 

 

No one cares what you think as preferences. If you want others to give you objective reasons, you have to be objective as well or you're not participating in the same conversation as others.