AMD Ryzen 2 Pinnacle Ridge 12nm CPUs

[Taf the Ghost]

20 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

well AMD said that Zen 2 would be compatible with the current motherboard IIRC, i know they said compatible with AM4, but im not 100% about the current motherboards one, only pretty sure. anyway this is great, i really hope they have gotten some work done on that IMC

Pinnacle Ridge is the Zen refresh. Or Zen+ now. Zen 2.0 is 2019 on 7nm LP node.

 

Though I am surprised we're getting a new chipset next year. PCIe 4.0 support?

[Dash Lambda]

2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Though I am surprised we're getting a new chipset next year. PCIe 4.0 support?

That would be cool, but I doubt it. I imagine it would be too expensive a change to justify when nothing is using it and nothing meaningful will be for at least a couple generations. Though that being said, it might be useful in the server segment, so that might push them to implement it -And given how they scale Ryzen that would put it on the consumer side.

 

Since Ryzen relies so sparingly on its chipset, I imagine the most we'd get from a new series is a few more ports and new motherboards. We might see some sort of more advanced PCIe splitter, so something closer to the 24 "3.0" chipset lanes we see on Intel, but I'd be surprised.

[Taf the Ghost]

9 minutes ago, Fardin said:

right now ryzen is staying at kind of 4ghz overclocking boundary. if it increases to 4.5ghz atleast, things gonna get really interesting  

Probably 200 Mhz bump in base clock, with maybe 4.4 Ghz being the best chips. AMD would actually get the most benefit out of an improved IMC. 3600 RAM + greater efficiency would actually be a pretty sizable IPC improvement, as that's actually where AMD can make up the most right now. (The actually under-reported story is just how much the Memory speed & efficiency caught up with Intel in Ryzen.)

[Dylanc1500]

3 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

That would be cool, but I doubt it. I imagine it would be too expensive a change to justify when nothing is using it and nothing meaningful will be for at least a couple generations. Though that being said, it might be useful in the server segment, so that might push them to implement it -And given how they scale Ryzen that would put it on the consumer side.

 

Since Ryzen relies so sparingly on its chipset, I imagine the most we'd get from a new series is a few more ports and new motherboards. We might see some sort of more advanced PCIe splitter, so something closer to the 24 "3.0" chipset lanes we see on Intel, but I'd be surprised.

I don't know if you are referring to just the consumer side but PCIe 4.0 is already being implemented.

 

Just some additional information!

[Taf the Ghost]

1 minute ago, Dash Lambda said:

That would be cool, but I doubt it. I imagine it would be too expensive a change to justify when nothing is using it and nothing meaningful will be for at least a couple generations. Though that being said, it might be useful in the server segment, so that might push them to implement it -And given how they scale Ryzen that would put it on the consumer side.

 

Since Ryzen relies so sparingly on its chipset, I imagine the most we'd get from a new series is a few more ports and new motherboards. We might see some sort of more advanced PCIe splitter, so something closer to the 24 "3.0" chipset lanes we see on Intel, but I'd be surprised.

There should be 4 more PCIe lanes available on Ryzen if they want to allow them to be addressable. Or they're going to allow the chipset to attach to them. Though it's probably better memory support/maybe more networking. Though the cynic in me more thinks it's a ploy to get motherboard manufacturers a reason to roll out new models & advertise them.

[Dash Lambda]

3 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

I don't know if you are referring to just the consumer side but PCIe 4.0 is already being implemented.

I did mention that it might be useful on the server side, I just don't know much about that. Are there any consumer products using it yet (or even ones that are announced)?

1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

There should be 4 more PCIe lanes available on Ryzen if they want to allow them to be addressable. Or they're going to allow the chipset to attach to them. Though it's probably better memory support/maybe more networking. Though the cynic in me more thinks it's a ploy to get motherboard manufacturers a reason to roll out new models & advertise them.

The 20 available is enough CPU lanes, I'm just talking about chipset lanes.

As for memory support, does the chipset really have anything to do with that?

[Bananasplit_00]

23 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Pinnacle Ridge is the Zen refresh. Or Zen+ now. Zen 2.0 is 2019 on 7nm LP node.

 

Though I am surprised we're getting a new chipset next year. PCIe 4.0 support?

yah i was a bit surprised on the chipset too, but it could be better NVME support or just generally more controll over the insides of the CPU tbh. kinda hopeing that you can put Zen CPUs in it, that could be sweet

[Dylanc1500]

3 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

I did mention that it might be useful on the server side, I just don't know much about that. Are there any consumer products using it yet (or even ones that are announced)?

The first to role it out was IBM. Consumer products, nothing has been released. I don't know if anything has been announced to  the public.

[Doobeedoo]

Yeah it will be AM4 socket. 

First great next gen APUs soon to come, a wast improvement from last gen. 

Second, steady improvements with refined node are nice to keep performance uplift on timely basis until 7nm is ready in the future which will be a great leap. 

[Doobeedoo]

Urm repost. 

[Trixanity]

54 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

yah i was a bit surprised on the chipset too, but it could be better NVME support or just generally more controll over the insides of the CPU tbh. kinda hopeing that you can put Zen CPUs in it, that could be sweet

Rolling out a new chipset helps motherboard vendors sell new boards. You can bet they want AMD to follow a similar path as Intel but this is a reasonable compromise. The chipset is made by ASMedia and there is definitely room for improvement even if the majority of it is integrated inside the processor itself. Best case scenario ASMedia actually makes a chipset that isn't crap. Hopefully AMD takes it back in-house when they have the resources to do so. 

 

PCI-E 4.0 support would rely on the processor itself and is unlikely to arrive before 2019 with Zen2.

 

We also have Thunderbolt support coming so it would be a good a time as any to do that with the refresh.

[TidaLWaveZ]

1 hour ago, Doobeedoo said:

Urm repost. 

This is the post that won't stop reeeeee-ing.

 

[CommandMan7]

As far as I can tell, the GoFlo 12nm process is based on Samsung's 14nm process, but both the GoFlo 14nm process and Samsung 14nm process are in reality about 17nm. It wouldn't make sense to go from 17nm to 17nm. Therefore, since it's only based on Samsung's 14nm process and not a direct copy, it's probably going to slot in between Samsung's 14nm (17nm) and Samsung's 10nm (12nm). This is probably going to be around 14 to 15 actual nanometers. Intel's 14nm process is actually around 13nm. If GoFlo 12nm process is extremely close to Samsung's 10nm process (12nm), then maybe there's a chance AMD could enjoy some desktop process superiority over Intel, but only until Intel releases their second 10nm (9.5nm) process around the second half of 2018. This is because the first generation 10nm actually has worse performance than 14nm, limiting it to mobile devices. 

 

Sources:

Technology and Cost Trends at Advanced Nodes

Intel reveals Ice lake architecture - 10nm+

[Armakar]

5 minutes ago, CommandMan7 said:

As far as I can tell, the GoFlo 12nm process is based on Samsung's 14nm process, but both the GoFlo 14nm process and Samsung 14nm process are in reality about 17nm. It wouldn't make sense to go from 17nm to 17nm. Therefore, since it's only based on Samsung's 14nm process and not a direct copy, it's probably going to slot in between Samsung's 14nm (17nm) and Samsung's 10nm (12nm). This is probably going to be around 14 to 15 actual nanometers. Intel's 14nm process is actually around 13nm. If GoFlo 12nm process is extremely close to Samsung's 10nm process (12nm), then maybe there's a chance AMD could enjoy some desktop process superiority over Intel, but only until Intel releases their second 10nm (9.5nm) process around the second half of 2018. This is because the first generation 10nm actually has worse performance than 14nm, limiting it to mobile devices. 

 

Sources:

Technology and Cost Trends at Advanced Nodes

Intel reveals Ice lake architecture - 10nm+

Oh boy, more mobile stuff?

Time for RAM prices to double again... glad I got my 16gb kit when it was 69.99 not $150

[Taf the Ghost]

57 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Rolling out a new chipset helps motherboard vendors sell new boards. You can bet they want AMD to follow a similar path as Intel but this is a reasonable compromise. The chipset is made by ASMedia and there is definitely room for improvement even if the majority of it is integrated inside the processor itself. Best case scenario ASMedia actually makes a chipset that isn't crap. Hopefully AMD takes it back in-house when they have the resources to do so. 

 

PCI-E 4.0 support would rely on the processor itself and is unlikely to arrive before 2019 with Zen2.

 

We also have Thunderbolt support coming so it would be a good a time as any to do that with the refresh.

It might actually be as much of a "fully working" chipset. There were complaints from the motherboard manufacturers that came out in the lead up to Ryzen's launch.

[handymanshandle]

2 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Pinnacle Ridge is the Zen refresh. Or Zen+ now. Zen 2.0 is 2019 on 7nm LP node.

 

Though I am surprised we're getting a new chipset next year. PCIe 4.0 support?

I really hope Zen 2 supports X370/AM4 boards. I plan on buying a R7 1700 and X370 board around Christmas

[Taf the Ghost]

3 minutes ago, wcreek said:

I really hope Zen 2 supports X370/AM4 boards. I plan on buying a R7 1700 and X370 board around Christmas

They've said they are supporting AM4 through 2020. 2020 should be when Zen 3.0 lands, so that should come with AM5 & DDR5. AMD has a long history of supporting their motherboards, though they did the AM2/2+ and AM3/3+. So the CPUs will work, if not have all of the newer features work. Plus, as mentioned up thread, so little of the process is actually on the chipset, at this point, that it shouldn't be that much of a technical issue.

[Skanky Sylveon]

6 minutes ago, wcreek said:

I really hope Zen 2 supports X370/AM4 boards. I plan on buying a R7 1700 and X370 board around Christmas

Didn't AMD state somewhere that AM4 will be supported for at least 4 years?

[handymanshandle]

6 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

They've said they are supporting AM4 through 2020. 2020 should be when Zen 3.0 lands, so that should come with AM5 & DDR5. AMD has a long history of supporting their motherboards, though they did the AM2/2+ and AM3/3+. So the CPUs will work, if not have all of the newer features work. Plus, as mentioned up thread, so little of the process is actually on the chipset, at this point, that it shouldn't be that much of a technical issue.

Yeah, I know AMD has had a good track record of keeping sockets/chipsets supported for extended period of times.

 

I highly doubt Intel's reason for making Coffee lake not support Z170 and Z270 chipsets is technical but them being greedy. Strange they'd use the same socket but lock it to a new chipset. Which considering the fact that Ryzen is throwing swings at Intel and sometimes making hits really isn't wise of Intel to be greedy.

1 minute ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Didn't AMD state somewhere that AM4 will be supported for at least 4 years?

Yes they did.

 

Also now I am limited to posting in off topic unless I can do 100 posts at one moment.

[Skanky Sylveon]

2 minutes ago, wcreek said:

I highly doubt Intel's reason for making Coffee lake not support Z170 and Z270 chipsets is technical but them being greedy. Strange they'd use the same socket but lock it to a new chipset. Which considering the fact that Ryzen is throwing swings at Intel and sometimes making hits really isn't wise of Intel to be greedy.

I wonder how much Intel makes from motherboards, i'm sure that ASUS, ASrock, MSI, Gigabyte, and whoever else i missed, like the lack of backwards compatibility as well.

4 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Yes they did.

So, unless AMD is lying, then you should be fine.

5 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Also now I am limited to posting in off topic unless I can do 100 posts at one moment.

What?

[Taf the Ghost]

4 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Yeah, I know AMD has had a good track record of keeping sockets/chipsets supported for extended period of times.

 

I highly doubt Intel's reason for making Coffee lake not support Z170 and Z270 chipsets is technical but them being greedy. Strange they'd use the same socket but lock it to a new chipset. Which considering the fact that Ryzen is throwing swings at Intel and sometimes making hits really isn't wise of Intel to be greedy.

 

z370 seems necessary for the 6c parts to work. That's fine, as the z170 baseline was designed somewhere in 2013/2014. But the z370 should be able to handle Kaby Lake parts, at least. That actually strikes me as a "thing" Intel really should have made sure works.

[Skanky Sylveon]

2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

z370 seems necessary for the 6c parts to work. That's fine, as the z170 baseline was designed somewhere in 2013/2014. But the z370 should be able to handle Kaby Lake parts, at least. That actually strikes me as a "thing" Intel really should have made sure works.

You don't think that a BIOS update wouldn't be able to add support?

Also, I don't think that many people will buy a z370 motherboard and then buy kaby lake/skylake.

[Stagea]

Global Foundries' 12 nm node is a refinement of the current 14 nm process. This is like Samsung's 11 nm process (which is scaled from their 14 nm).

 

Samsung claims 15% efficiency improvement with this shrink, so I'm guessing Global Foundries could reach the same, as they are working with similar tech. 

[Taf the Ghost]

58 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

You don't think that a BIOS update wouldn't be able to add support?

Also, I don't think that many people will buy a z370 motherboard and then buy kaby lake/skylake.

I'm sure it's just a bios lockout, rather than anything technical. Someone got a Pentium to get almost post, stopping after all of the system checks. So, from a consumer standpoint, it'd allow the current stock of CPUs to work on the new motherboard. Which I'm sure the motherboard manufacturers wouldn't mind.

 

Retailers wouldn't be too happy, though, as they have a large stock of z270s and Kaby Lake CPUs. Gotta do something with them.

[Skanky Sylveon]

11 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I'm sure it's just a bios lockout, rather than anything technical. Someone got a Pentium to get almost post, stopping after all of the system checks. So, from a consumer standpoint, it'd allow the current stock of CPUs to work on the new motherboard. Which I'm sure the motherboard manufacturers wouldn't mind.

 

Retailers wouldn't be too happy, though, as they have a large stock of z270s and Kaby Lake CPUs. Gotta do something with them.

The more that I think about it, the more that I realize, it's probably not just "Intel being greedy".

Although i'm sure that's a factor as well.